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	<title>Comments on: Internet v. Paper: Dana Milbank Turns David Simon&#8217;s Fiction into News</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895290</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 17:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895290</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EXACTLY.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll point to the work of another Center for Independent Media reporter, Eartha Jane Melzer; her coverage of a &lt;a href=&quot;http://michiganmessenger.com/tag/sovereign-deed&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;privatized security contractor&lt;/a&gt; received an &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.press.org/?p=676&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;honorable mention for the Hume Award&lt;/a&gt; from the National Press Club in 2008, and was based on more than 6 months of reporting and a series of features culminating in a &lt;a href=&quot;http://michiganmessenger.com/726/sovereign-deed-ceo-lied-about-military-service-records-show&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2800-word opus&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Marcy’s work on the Plame leak and the Libby trial meets and exceeds the kind of reporting brownandserve points to; here’s a person who has several related beats, is an acknowledged subject matter expert on them, has published a book covering the subject of one beat. As far as I can tell, the only reason brownandserve can’t see Marcy’s work for what it is is that she’s a dirty fucking hippie blogger. (Never mind Marcy’s credentials as an instructor with a doctorate in dissent literature, which is a lot more than many so-called journalists bring to the table.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There’s also the work of ePluribus Media, which has sustained investigative reporting on &lt;a href=&quot;http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2009/1/17/135359/178&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mike Connell and his role as IT service provider&lt;/a&gt; to the Republican Party and Bush Administration. Again, no acknowledgment of their years of work on the topic. Nearly uncompensated work as well since there are very few ads on their site; what they’ve earned probably doesn’t make a dent in their expenses.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;The work of investigative can be done online by bloggers; only the method by which it’s compensated which is in question.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EXACTLY.</p>
<p>I’ll point to the work of another Center for Independent Media reporter, Eartha Jane Melzer; her coverage of a <a href="http://michiganmessenger.com/tag/sovereign-deed" rel="nofollow">privatized security contractor</a> received an <a href="http://blog.press.org/?p=676" rel="nofollow">honorable mention for the Hume Award</a> from the National Press Club in 2008, and was based on more than 6 months of reporting and a series of features culminating in a <a href="http://michiganmessenger.com/726/sovereign-deed-ceo-lied-about-military-service-records-show" rel="nofollow">2800-word opus</a>.</p>
<p>Marcy’s work on the Plame leak and the Libby trial meets and exceeds the kind of reporting brownandserve points to; here’s a person who has several related beats, is an acknowledged subject matter expert on them, has published a book covering the subject of one beat. As far as I can tell, the only reason brownandserve can’t see Marcy’s work for what it is is that she’s a dirty fucking hippie blogger. (Never mind Marcy’s credentials as an instructor with a doctorate in dissent literature, which is a lot more than many so-called journalists bring to the table.)</p>
<p>There’s also the work of ePluribus Media, which has sustained investigative reporting on <a href="http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2009/1/17/135359/178" rel="nofollow">Mike Connell and his role as IT service provider</a> to the Republican Party and Bush Administration. Again, no acknowledgment of their years of work on the topic. Nearly uncompensated work as well since there are very few ads on their site; what they’ve earned probably doesn’t make a dent in their expenses.</p>
<p><strong>The work of investigative can be done online by bloggers; only the method by which it’s compensated which is in question.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895265</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s why we have blog aggregators — and it’s why the smarter newspapers (like the St. Paul Pioneer Press) are working with local bloggers such as The UpTake instead of spitting on them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s why we have blog aggregators — and it’s why the smarter newspapers (like the St. Paul Pioneer Press) are working with local bloggers such as The UpTake instead of spitting on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895264</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895264</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Emerson, Marcy’s not the only person who writes for FDL.  (And she wasn’t the only person working the Plame/Libby beat for FDL, either.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But speaking of Marcy:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/cia-lying-to-abc-about-torture-again-abc-reporting-it-uncritically-again/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;She just caught ABC in a big fat lie&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emerson, Marcy’s not the only person who writes for FDL.  (And she wasn’t the only person working the Plame/Libby beat for FDL, either.)</p>
<p>But speaking of Marcy:  <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/cia-lying-to-abc-about-torture-again-abc-reporting-it-uncritically-again/" rel="nofollow">She just caught ABC in a big fat lie</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: laborite57</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895243</link>
		<dc:creator>laborite57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 12:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1895243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s interesting that in the discussion of the financial distress of the auto companies, a lot of people in the media were very quick to point to incompetent managers and overpaid workers. Don’t seem to hear much of this with the newspapers….do you suppose….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s interesting that in the discussion of the financial distress of the auto companies, a lot of people in the media were very quick to point to incompetent managers and overpaid workers. Don’t seem to hear much of this with the newspapers….do you suppose….</p>
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		<title>By: emerson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894917</link>
		<dc:creator>emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 02:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894917</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s my question on The Dagger. Are they employing a paid staff or are they volunteer? Some of those headings haven’t been updated in weeks or months.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I applaud their efforts and believe this would be noble community work for retirees, especially those with some journalism background, but this will not substitute for the newspapers, large and small, that fall.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a problem with no answer that I can see. I think Simon was correct to raise it. Marcy is an uncommonly good reporter. I would like her views on how much more difficult it would be to do her job well if there were no mainstream sources, like the AP. As much as we condemn their laziness (and often with good reason) that very criticism can lead to a huge story well-reported.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let’s say Marcie can produce 20 in-depth astounding stories annually. Then ask yourself how many topics are covered on this site in a single day. It is an ominous task.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s my question on The Dagger. Are they employing a paid staff or are they volunteer? Some of those headings haven’t been updated in weeks or months.</p>
<p>I applaud their efforts and believe this would be noble community work for retirees, especially those with some journalism background, but this will not substitute for the newspapers, large and small, that fall.</p>
<p>This is a problem with no answer that I can see. I think Simon was correct to raise it. Marcy is an uncommonly good reporter. I would like her views on how much more difficult it would be to do her job well if there were no mainstream sources, like the AP. As much as we condemn their laziness (and often with good reason) that very criticism can lead to a huge story well-reported.</p>
<p>Let’s say Marcie can produce 20 in-depth astounding stories annually. Then ask yourself how many topics are covered on this site in a single day. It is an ominous task.</p>
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		<title>By: brownandserve</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894916</link>
		<dc:creator>brownandserve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 02:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894916</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Couldn’t resist posting this link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/kerry_begins_newspaper?utm_source=b-section&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Onion&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn’t resist posting this link to <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/kerry_begins_newspaper?utm_source=b-section" rel="nofollow">The Onion</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894914</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 02:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894914</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is my worry, too. That’s why I referred to the example of Marcy’s fund drive here. Newspapers could afford to hire staffs and pay reporters. They didn’t have to worry about having jobs to support themselves, as many bloggers do. Until we solve that problem, newspapers will be irreplaceable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s what Simon was saying. It doesn’t mean shit if he doesn’t know who the bloggers were at the zoning meetings. How many people read that blog, anyway? Probably a small fraction of the people who read the &lt;i&gt;Sun&lt;/i&gt;, even now. In a way, Simon’s ignorance of the work that blog is doing symbolizes the problem. For a population to be informed, there have to be people both willing and able to report the news. Then they have to know where to read it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my worry, too. That’s why I referred to the example of Marcy’s fund drive here. Newspapers could afford to hire staffs and pay reporters. They didn’t have to worry about having jobs to support themselves, as many bloggers do. Until we solve that problem, newspapers will be irreplaceable.</p>
<p>That’s what Simon was saying. It doesn’t mean shit if he doesn’t know who the bloggers were at the zoning meetings. How many people read that blog, anyway? Probably a small fraction of the people who read the <i>Sun</i>, even now. In a way, Simon’s ignorance of the work that blog is doing symbolizes the problem. For a population to be informed, there have to be people both willing and able to report the news. Then they have to know where to read it.</p>
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		<title>By: echoecho</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894913</link>
		<dc:creator>echoecho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 02:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894913</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All together now…&lt;br /&gt;
Newspapers are going out of business because people can get news easily and for free online.&lt;br /&gt;
It has nothing to do with the quality or content of newspapers.&lt;br /&gt;
You can’t compete with free, as the music industry has learned, and the publishing industry is learning now.&lt;br /&gt;
Did people stop buying cds because popular music wasn’t popular any more or because they could get whatever they wanted for free? Sure ,some pay for downloads, just as some will pay to subscribe to blogs. But most won’t.&lt;br /&gt;
Music is not seen as having value any more, young people see it as kind of foolish to spend a lot on music. This article is taking the same approach to news gathering, devaluing it.&lt;br /&gt;
Books will be the next thing to be devalued, as Kindles etc become more popular it will be easy to download bootleg copies of whatever book you want for free.&lt;br /&gt;
Information wants to be free right?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All together now…<br />
Newspapers are going out of business because people can get news easily and for free online.<br />
It has nothing to do with the quality or content of newspapers.<br />
You can’t compete with free, as the music industry has learned, and the publishing industry is learning now.<br />
Did people stop buying cds because popular music wasn’t popular any more or because they could get whatever they wanted for free? Sure ,some pay for downloads, just as some will pay to subscribe to blogs. But most won’t.<br />
Music is not seen as having value any more, young people see it as kind of foolish to spend a lot on music. This article is taking the same approach to news gathering, devaluing it.<br />
Books will be the next thing to be devalued, as Kindles etc become more popular it will be easy to download bootleg copies of whatever book you want for free.<br />
Information wants to be free right?</p>
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		<title>By: brownandserve</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894907</link>
		<dc:creator>brownandserve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 01:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894907</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m with ya.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m with ya.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894906</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 01:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/07/be-the-change-you-want-to-see-david/#comment-1894906</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;to my knowledge it hasn’t been done yet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;but rather than make this about blogs vs newspapers - my concern, especially after thinking about some of what simon had to say, is how is anyone (blog, newspaper, etc) going to be able to afford to do the kind and amount of reporting we need to be an informed citizenry?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;no easy answers that i can see.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to my knowledge it hasn’t been done yet.</p>
<p>but rather than make this about blogs vs newspapers &#8211; my concern, especially after thinking about some of what simon had to say, is how is anyone (blog, newspaper, etc) going to be able to afford to do the kind and amount of reporting we need to be an informed citizenry?</p>
<p>no easy answers that i can see.</p>
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