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	<title>Comments on: Whigging Out</title>
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		<title>By: MEC0</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889840</link>
		<dc:creator>MEC0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889840</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Well, if you’re going to be the Party of Limbaugh, you’re going to pitch a very small tent.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Republicans have a Big Tent, but Rush Limbaugh takes up so much room no one else can fit in.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, if you’re going to be the Party of Limbaugh, you’re going to pitch a very small tent.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The Republicans have a Big Tent, but Rush Limbaugh takes up so much room no one else can fit in.</p>
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		<title>By: frankly0</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889780</link>
		<dc:creator>frankly0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889780</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;pretzel,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Can’t say I much like your logic.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Specter is now officially the worst Democrat in the Senate. He was almost certain to have been thrown out in the Republican primary process by Toomey, and Toomey almost certainly would have lost to a Democrat who almost certainly would be far better than the worst Democrat in the Senate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So we get at most two positive years out of Specter as the worst Democrat in the Senate before it turns to nothing but downside.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wonder if a single critical vote of Specter’s will change because of his switch. Certainly he has said nothing to indicate that it will — on EFCA in particular he has said he won’t change.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And one potential downside is that Specter starts to become a critical vote where he might not otherwise be so — such as health care reform. What if the Democrats now decide they don’t want to go through the “divisive” confrontation that doing health care reform under reconciliation would create — a confrontation Republicans apparently have promised? How much might health care reform have to be compromised to create 60 votes instead of 51?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Indeed, the general problem is that now Democrats will seek to get 60 votes in the Senate on everything they attempt to pass without confrontation, because they now have 60 votes in the Senate. They will seek the “peaceable” solution, however compromised. They could instead, of course, do everything they could to force such “moderates” as Collins and Snowe and Specter (even as a Republican) to do the right thing, and hold them up in their own moderate states as obstructionists if they present resistance. But why should they want to do that when they can instead push out some highly compromised legislative product which they declare victory over, without any tawdry appearance of divisiveness?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pretzel,</p>
<p>Can’t say I much like your logic.</p>
<p>Specter is now officially the worst Democrat in the Senate. He was almost certain to have been thrown out in the Republican primary process by Toomey, and Toomey almost certainly would have lost to a Democrat who almost certainly would be far better than the worst Democrat in the Senate.</p>
<p>So we get at most two positive years out of Specter as the worst Democrat in the Senate before it turns to nothing but downside.</p>
<p>I wonder if a single critical vote of Specter’s will change because of his switch. Certainly he has said nothing to indicate that it will — on EFCA in particular he has said he won’t change.</p>
<p>And one potential downside is that Specter starts to become a critical vote where he might not otherwise be so — such as health care reform. What if the Democrats now decide they don’t want to go through the “divisive” confrontation that doing health care reform under reconciliation would create — a confrontation Republicans apparently have promised? How much might health care reform have to be compromised to create 60 votes instead of 51?</p>
<p>Indeed, the general problem is that now Democrats will seek to get 60 votes in the Senate on everything they attempt to pass without confrontation, because they now have 60 votes in the Senate. They will seek the “peaceable” solution, however compromised. They could instead, of course, do everything they could to force such “moderates” as Collins and Snowe and Specter (even as a Republican) to do the right thing, and hold them up in their own moderate states as obstructionists if they present resistance. But why should they want to do that when they can instead push out some highly compromised legislative product which they declare victory over, without any tawdry appearance of divisiveness?</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889779</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889779</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Arlen’s defection is just another indicator of the party of one.  Tweedledum meet Tweedledee.  It’s the one party state Stalin could get behind, to be sure.  State-corporativists are welcome.  Liberals/Progressives need not apply.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arlen’s defection is just another indicator of the party of one.  Tweedledum meet Tweedledee.  It’s the one party state Stalin could get behind, to be sure.  State-corporativists are welcome.  Liberals/Progressives need not apply.</p>
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		<title>By: pretzel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889778</link>
		<dc:creator>pretzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889778</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Personally, as a Pennsylvanian, I’m not shocked nor am I upset or elated.  Specter wants to be re-elected.  He knows he can’t run in the general election if he loses in the primary due to PA “sore loser” laws.  He found long standing allies in Gov. Rendell and VP Biden who would support and campaign for him in 2010.  From a state standpoint, I’d rather continue to have a Senator who still has the seniority that ultimately garners money and economic benefits that come with being higher on the pecking order.  Senators with less seniority don’t get the benefits for their states that junior senators get.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;re:28 - I heard an interview on the way to work with Rep. Sestak.  I agree he’s somewhat puzzled and to a degree somewhat pissed.  Directly after that interview Mike Smirconish (Philly talk radio) had Rep. Brady from Philly.  Absolute contrast in viewpoints between these 2 Dems.  I agree with Rep. Sestak in that Sen. Specter’s nomination as the Dem. candidate should not be assumed.  He will be extremely watchful of Sen. Specter and will be more than willing to point out the contradictions in Specter’s rhetoric vs. voting.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;re. 36- This was Rep. Brady’s position.  He used the “Club for Growth” talking point over and over.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;re.  37 - The only people Sen. Specter really turned his back on were the Republican Party.  With PA becoming even bluer than in the past, Sen. Specter needed the independant and moderate Dems in order to win in the general election.  PA should by all accounts keep 2 Dem. Senators for the foreseeable future.  Rick Santorum was an anomaly.  He came in under the “Contract for America” banner originally and won re-election on Bush’s coattails.  Pat Toomey is Santorum’s clone.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the long run, this is a good thing for the Dems.  Sen. Specter is an avid advocate for healthcare reform and research.  What we won’t get from him we wouldn’t have gotten anyway.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, as a Pennsylvanian, I’m not shocked nor am I upset or elated.  Specter wants to be re-elected.  He knows he can’t run in the general election if he loses in the primary due to PA “sore loser” laws.  He found long standing allies in Gov. Rendell and VP Biden who would support and campaign for him in 2010.  From a state standpoint, I’d rather continue to have a Senator who still has the seniority that ultimately garners money and economic benefits that come with being higher on the pecking order.  Senators with less seniority don’t get the benefits for their states that junior senators get.</p>
<p>re:28 &#8211; I heard an interview on the way to work with Rep. Sestak.  I agree he’s somewhat puzzled and to a degree somewhat pissed.  Directly after that interview Mike Smirconish (Philly talk radio) had Rep. Brady from Philly.  Absolute contrast in viewpoints between these 2 Dems.  I agree with Rep. Sestak in that Sen. Specter’s nomination as the Dem. candidate should not be assumed.  He will be extremely watchful of Sen. Specter and will be more than willing to point out the contradictions in Specter’s rhetoric vs. voting.</p>
<p>re. 36- This was Rep. Brady’s position.  He used the “Club for Growth” talking point over and over.</p>
<p>re.  37 &#8211; The only people Sen. Specter really turned his back on were the Republican Party.  With PA becoming even bluer than in the past, Sen. Specter needed the independant and moderate Dems in order to win in the general election.  PA should by all accounts keep 2 Dem. Senators for the foreseeable future.  Rick Santorum was an anomaly.  He came in under the “Contract for America” banner originally and won re-election on Bush’s coattails.  Pat Toomey is Santorum’s clone.  </p>
<p>In the long run, this is a good thing for the Dems.  Sen. Specter is an avid advocate for healthcare reform and research.  What we won’t get from him we wouldn’t have gotten anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: ImperialFlow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889776</link>
		<dc:creator>ImperialFlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s a fair bit of revisionism there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The marriage of neoconservatives and social-conservatives in the era to elect Reagan was one of intent and purpose.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They knew exactly what they were doing, and both sides thought they were fleecing the other.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s a fair bit of revisionism there.</p>
<p>The marriage of neoconservatives and social-conservatives in the era to elect Reagan was one of intent and purpose.</p>
<p>They knew exactly what they were doing, and both sides thought they were fleecing the other.</p>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889772</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889772</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, crumbs for the lefties for so long.  Now they are up to croutons?  Obama seems to have political capital to cherry pick a few “safe” progressive moves … and keeps on skating on the thin iced status quo. Accountability coma still persists. So the corruption has become so systemic, all are compromised in both parties re banksters and torture so let’s not do any reality checking as a country. Let’s just be paralyzed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Darcy Burner is now working for the Congressional Progressive Caucus in a new foundation to help fight the Blue Dogs. Looking for volunteers.  Last Sat. on  firedoglake.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So if Republicans migrate to Dem Party … progressive recovery gets diluted all the more. The wingnuts who are left in Repub party distract from a country in code blue. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Big Wall St. daddies and Daddy military … have Obama in their thrall, sadly. He can’t community organize us to a better place when it comes to amoral and immoral which incidentally is also ILLEGAL activity.  Need accountability. We are beyond community organizers with the likes of torturers, banksters. Onto prosecutors and probation officers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama, you were not elected to ENABLE the political and corporate classes.  You promised change.  You promised to restore the common good.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, crumbs for the lefties for so long.  Now they are up to croutons?  Obama seems to have political capital to cherry pick a few “safe” progressive moves … and keeps on skating on the thin iced status quo. Accountability coma still persists. So the corruption has become so systemic, all are compromised in both parties re banksters and torture so let’s not do any reality checking as a country. Let’s just be paralyzed.</p>
<p>Darcy Burner is now working for the Congressional Progressive Caucus in a new foundation to help fight the Blue Dogs. Looking for volunteers.  Last Sat. on  firedoglake.</p>
<p>So if Republicans migrate to Dem Party … progressive recovery gets diluted all the more. The wingnuts who are left in Repub party distract from a country in code blue. </p>
<p>Big Wall St. daddies and Daddy military … have Obama in their thrall, sadly. He can’t community organize us to a better place when it comes to amoral and immoral which incidentally is also ILLEGAL activity.  Need accountability. We are beyond community organizers with the likes of torturers, banksters. Onto prosecutors and probation officers.</p>
<p>Obama, you were not elected to ENABLE the political and corporate classes.  You promised change.  You promised to restore the common good.</p>
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		<title>By: oldoilfieldhand</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889732</link>
		<dc:creator>oldoilfieldhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889732</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Snarlin’ Arlen has turned his back on the people who elected him. If he betrayed his constituents once (twice now), he’ll do it again. The man is not to be trusted. Ben “Switchhorse” Campbell changed parties when I lived in and loved Colorado (still love Colorado). It was disgraceful then and it;s disgraceful now; a purely self promoting (preserving) thing to do. As Molly used to say “You have to dance with the one who brung you”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snarlin’ Arlen has turned his back on the people who elected him. If he betrayed his constituents once (twice now), he’ll do it again. The man is not to be trusted. Ben “Switchhorse” Campbell changed parties when I lived in and loved Colorado (still love Colorado). It was disgraceful then and it;s disgraceful now; a purely self promoting (preserving) thing to do. As Molly used to say “You have to dance with the one who brung you”.</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889711</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889711</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The people they’ve chosen as spokespeople are inarticulate loons. But then again, who else do they have?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;let’s be clear though, the republicans didn’t choose rush and rove the neo cons did&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the republicans didn’t realize they were undergoing a coup and losing their party, if they ever do realize it they can regain some power&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The people they’ve chosen as spokespeople are inarticulate loons. But then again, who else do they have?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>let’s be clear though, the republicans didn’t choose rush and rove the neo cons did</p>
<p>the republicans didn’t realize they were undergoing a coup and losing their party, if they ever do realize it they can regain some power</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889710</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889710</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;they need to reclaim their party beerfart because if the democrats are the only party in town they WILL corrupt themselves just as the republicans did&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;how to do?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;simple&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;they need to not only throw the neo cons out, they need to throw them under the bus&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THEY need to call for investigations, THEY need to prosecute the criminals that destroyed our country for eight years, THEY need to take the lead and make US look like WE don’t want to hold the rule of law&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THEY NEED TO TAKE THE LEAD PROSECUTING THE BUSH ADIMINSTATION in it’s entirety&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if they did that they would stand a chance and the country would be  the far better for it&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they need to reclaim their party beerfart because if the democrats are the only party in town they WILL corrupt themselves just as the republicans did</p>
<p>how to do?</p>
<p>simple</p>
<p>they need to not only throw the neo cons out, they need to throw them under the bus</p>
<p>THEY need to call for investigations, THEY need to prosecute the criminals that destroyed our country for eight years, THEY need to take the lead and make US look like WE don’t want to hold the rule of law</p>
<p>THEY NEED TO TAKE THE LEAD PROSECUTING THE BUSH ADIMINSTATION in it’s entirety</p>
<p>if they did that they would stand a chance and the country would be  the far better for it</p>
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		<title>By: KayInMaine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889709</link>
		<dc:creator>KayInMaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/29/whigging-out/#comment-1889709</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, that explains why the right wing has wet feet! Bah hahahahaha!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that explains why the right wing has wet feet! Bah hahahahaha!</p>
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