I can sympathize with Montesquieu, who said in 1748, "So many men of learning and genius have written against the custom of torturing criminals, that after them I dare not presume to meddle with the subject." Horrifyingly enough, the debate over torture is now timely in America. Much has been told, but more needs telling.
What I want to say is this: Democracy dies on torture’s rack. We can’t be democratic citizens and torturers too.
The tragedy of Alyssa Peterson is revelatory. Peterson was one of the first female soldiers killed in Iraq. She was a 27-year-old from Flagstaff, Arizona. She spoke Arabic, and as an interrogator was assigned to a military prison. After objecting to the torture she was asked to participate in, she was reprimanded for showing too much "empathy" and reassigned. Not long after, she was killed by a gunshot. Her death was ruled a suicide. According to the official report, "She said that she did not know how to be two people; she … could not be one person in the cage and another outside the wire."
We are all Alyssa Petersons. We cannot be in the torture cage and out of it at the same time. Torture is about extinguishing what is unique and human in the victim. Franz Kafka got it right. In his parable, "In the Penal Colony," the torturer is killed by the horrible device he once used on others. The uniqueness we extinguish in others we also extinguish in ourselves. When we torture, we erase democracy’s very being.
In her book, Inventing Human Rights, historian Lynn Hunt also tells this story well. The abolition of legal torture in the 18th and 19th centuries was a consequence of – and essential to – the growing belief in the sanctity and autonomy of the individual. Without belief in individual autonomy (and empathy for others), there would be no democracy at all. Prussia abolished torture in 1754, Sweden in 1772, Austria and Bohemia in 1776. Great Britain was slower. And of course, slaves could be tortured here long after we declared that all are created equal. To the extent that legacy lives on in the torture of others, what we call our democracy is, at best, a bloody shadow of the real thing.
We can, of course, torture and claim to live in a democracy, like the former Soviet Union claimed to be a Republic. And some of us are capable of torturing one day and nurturing the next. Alyssa Peterson could not do that. And I’m claiming that those who can are unprepared for democracy.
Every American would see the burning of, say, the Declaration of Independence, as a grievous crime, an attempted subversion of our democratic aspirations. American state torture commits a much greater arson.
We are not really debating whether or not to investigate and punish Bush Administration torturers. We are debating whether state torture is compatible with democracy. It is not. I am not arguing a preference. I am stating what I believe to be an empirical fact. We can’t claim a unique humanity for each of us while we deny uniqueness to others because that would undo the ontological premise of democracy. We can’t live inside the cage and out of it at the same time.
I believe that unless we hold those who authorized torture accountable before the law, torture in America will be both alive and dead, and that is dangerous. When Karl Rove reduces the question of torture to "policy differences" between administrations, he is arguing the case for torture, not just the case against prosecution of his cronies. If we do not enforce the laws against torture, then some of us will torture and some of us won’t. Just depends who’s president.
I understand the potential cost of investigation and prosecution, and I believe such costs are real. For instance, the chances of real health care reform might be diminished if the nation is absorbed and polarized by a criminal investigation of Bush Administration torturers. And the denial of health care to millions of Americans is torture, too. If we are to live fully human, democratic lives outside the cage, we will have to do both.



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“Cheney Death Squads Target Obama”
I think we need to look into this.
glen, even speaking that in my own mind brings the chills of admiration
those are possibly the most eloquent 5 words yet spoken on this subject
I wear a knox straw hat on days sunny like today and I just tipped my fedora to your writing
Wow. Thanks so much. Whatever power the phrase might have is not mine to claim. It comes from the fact that it is the truth.
this women died for her patriotism
tears
You are exactly right, perris. While I linked to his post, Greg Mitchell at Editor & Publisher and the Arizona reporter, Kevin Elston, deserve credit for bringing her story to America’s attention. Elston doggedly pursued the facts behind her death. Mitchell has written multiple essays about Alyssa.
Democracy dies on torture’s rack.
This is good.
Only traitors torture.
Who’s not corrupted from the Treason bush and cheney committed?
The military
The doctors
The psychiatrists
The CIA
The justice department
After kids are missing george will defending shit
I’m Just fucking fed up with the american public.
When the new torture / murder pics come out I’m making them into tee shirts to wear every day till JUSTICE.
Where did this come from?
Thanks. One reason for writing this piece is that so much D.C. and mainstream discussion of the issue becomes so soulless, superficial, wonkish, as if they were discussing a dollar difference in the appropriation for DOD. Recent revelations, many made right here at FDL by Marcy Wheeler and others, are not matched with a moral sense of urgency from the elite. Yet. Let’s take it there.
Let’s make the American public aware. Of what’s happened, and what the stakes are.
For sure….and thank you for your help? Are any of our governors speaking out?
Great question, and I am not certain those voices have been heard.
There have been several stories in the MSM that try to point to the damage done to the torturer. EW noted the possibility that CIA personnel were opposed to torture, and that the Bush administration might have gotten the torture justification memos to prevent them from acting on their consciences and refusing.
There are people in all societies who want to torture others. We punish them criminally. Surely some of the CIA and other people who tortured helpless captives were injured.
Prairie Sunshine downstairs:
My hairdresser asked me what they use the surfboard for when waterboarding.
Jeebus Christmas on a stick!
Tell us what you said…
All of us were injured.
One of the striking points in the movie Dead Man Walking was its attempt to depict the impact on the executioners.
full explanation of the technique and that we have executed others who have been found guilty of its practice.
She said, Oh!
My sincere thanks to all here who have helped me to hold onto my last wit
An excellent piece. This is a very clear statement of why we as a country cannot just forget about the torture that was sanctioned and carried out by the Bush administration. I am hoping that the photos that are soon to be released will jolt the country into realizing what was done. Lots of people don’t read, but if the photos are widely published, they will carry a lot of weight.
You’re welcome…it’s a terrible thing to lose.
Talked to the pastor of my former war loving church and arlin’s staff this week. You can bet your ass they understand righteous indignation isn’t just a term in the dictionary.
I walk around every Tuesday Night at a vigil with less than a dozen others ,for more than 300 times to make the good americans aware of what they are involved in. This week was the blood smeared Abu Grabh photos. So there I stand with these photos five foot from them at the red light. Kinda in your face.
I make ‘um squirm .
Good Day and thanks.
Great point. I think our popular narratives are full of this theme.
And what are we going to do with all the damaged soldiers when they come home? Their scars will be deep and painful. Their rage may be worse.
Thanks, Glenn, for another great post.
god bless george washington
ga’damn george bush
”Wow. Thanks so much. Whatever power the phrase might have is not mine to claim. It comes from the fact that it is the truth.”
Truer words were never spoken Glen. We cannot torture and also say we are a free country & a country of Laws1
Thanks for the very well written Post. I would gladly DIGG it BUT as Jane says DIGG is ripping off the writer of the post!
PS Lurk quoting and other functions seem broke this AM.
You have the conscience of a patriot. Thank you.
I never have figgered out Digg. Thanks for your kind words.
OR maybe it is just me???
I think it is you.
I think these statements capture the essence of the ludicrous nature of the torture ‘debate.’ Anyone defending torture simply cannot also say they support American government or society. It’s an aspect of this whole issue that makes my head explode. Torture in its very essence is unAmerican. If you torture or support it, you are NOT American. For once I have to agree with someone on Faux News,
The people who engineered this are without conscience. They are responsible for the murders of over two hundred largely innocent people in order to generate political propaganda. They are desperate and have nothing to lose. They enjoy the protection of people who still serve at the highest levels of government. They move freely within the National Security State. Dick Cheney has let it be known that he ran Death Squads out of the Vice President’s office. He has let it be known that he has a cadre of ’stay behinds’ still burrowed into the government. He has been out there clearly attempting to intimidate Obama from investigating this stuff. He has stated that he considers the limited actions Obama has taken to be a danger to U.S. national security. He has demonstrated that he will violate U.S. law in defense of his perception of U.S. national security. Which U.S. laws? The one about assassination? I think that the secret service needs to investigate this. We have lost one president this way. As the right is fond of saying. If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn’t mind an investigation.
And I hope I gave some reasons for the literal truth of what you say. It’s not just an invented pre-requisite. Torture is incompatible with democratic citizenry, and it’s no coincidence that the banning of torture preceded mankind’s first modern experiments with democracy.
But SWEG, there’s nothing more patriotic™ than preservation of the Republic (hide your lying eyes) over short-term dalliances (you know, accountability). And if we learned anything about Republicans these last 8 years, we learned that no one is more patriotic™.
Thanks I will restart FF and see what happens!
It seems it is my FF I am now using IE and everything seems to be in place…. Thanks Lurk (:>))
Wow, George Lakoff is upstairs!
Torture, Empathy, and Democracy
History will refer to the Bushco administration as the barbarian period or we are all screwed
Thank you, Glenn. We are all indeed Alyssa Peterson. Would that she found some peace.
Thanks for this post Glenn, and to the mods for keeping the roads clear.
I imagine it can get pretty hectic behind the scenes at times. ;-)
Thanks again Glen for saying what needs to be said over and over again until Justice is served and Torture is rightfully shown to be the evil it truly is.
Oh and Lurk FF is now working…”it takes a computer to really fuck up”.
I don’t even know how to adequately thank Jane and her crew at FDL. So I join you in a bow to them this morning.
Absolutely! Long live the Lake and all the pups who romp on it’s shores.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Glenn W. Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I look forward to Saturdays because I know I’m gunna get a serving of Brother Smith’s writing and today you have a topic and a context that does justice to your talent.
The experience of Alyssa Peterson is more that a statement of what torture does to an individual that participates in it and what that means in the greater context of a democratic society…Alyssa’s story is an allegory for what an individual goes through serving in war and surviving as a functioning human being capable of making moral choices. I have learned from my Grandfather and my father as well as from commrads who have experienced the terrible contradictions of war and survival as well as from my own experience, that no one who experiences war directly at any level remains whole emotionally, psychologically or morally.
I would like FDLers who read Brother Smith’s post to take the time to relect on Alyssa’s experience and try and understand how every solder confronts the pressures and contradictions of war and must find a way to reconcile what he or she must do to survive with their moral constructs that justify survival. Please understand, FDLers, that at some level every soldier confronts the horrible realities that overwhelmed Alyssa…and that in surviving every soldier loses something of the person that they were before war came to define them.
Bless your heart Brother Smith and thank you for applying your talent to Alsyssa’s story…you get another oakleaf cluster for your Norske Medal of Citizenship.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNTION, THE WAR IS OURS, WE OWN IT AND IT WILL NEVER GO AWAY!!!
Thank you, Norske. I look forward to your insights each week as well.
Norski you always seems to have some great words/thoughts for all us Pups to think about/contemplete! Thanks!!
Glen,
Thanks for memorializing Alyssa again. When this happened originally, I was still living in Flagstaff. We had a good Democracy for America group there– I’ll let them know about your diary on this.
Bob in HI
Bob, please convey our thoughts and regards to your friends and colleagues in Arizona.
i’m very late to this thread, but i want to deeply thank you for putting that truth out in front of everyone.
unfortunately, it’s true for everyone involved – those who volunteer for the military, those who’ve been drafted and those whose countries have been attacked and are trying to remove the occupiers. it puts everyone in impossible dilemmas and often with really minimal time to consider the alternatives.
(((norske))))
history may decide bushco the most barbarious or the begining of the end of american ideals…its up to us, I can’t trade health care for torture acceptance,at what point do you stand up and say no more