Check out all these examples of conservatives like Rove, Hannity, Glenn Beck, and Mark Steyn arguing that if the Obama administration prosecutes torturers or their enablers, that would make the United States just like a third-world dictatorship.
Because if there’s one thing third-world dictatorships are known for, it’s their fanatical intolerance of torture.
Now watch the end of the YouTube clip to the right – after Jonathan Turley helpfully points out that torture is illegal, Pat Buchanan actually says this about torture:
You may be right on what the law says, but there is a higher moral law. That’s what… That’s what Dr. King was all about.
So there you have it: Illegally torturing prisoners is the height of enlightened morality, and only a thuggish tyrant would ever dream of prosecuting the noble souls responsible for it.
Also, the GOP leadership called Obama partisan, and Michele Bachmann called Janet Napolitano "absolutely stark raving mad." I repeat: Michele Bachmann called someone crazy.



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heya Eli!
ooo – snap. Lawrence Wilkerson calls Cheney a “man who is easily frightened”.
lessee – there’s a word for that – on the tip of my tongue – can’t. quite. get. it.
I love Pat Buchanan, and I hope he goes to Heaven when he is all done.
jeez
I feel especially entitled to comment on this given my screen name.
Someone needs to find a way to counter the banana republic meme that Rove and his pals are spreading. I know there are many rational arguments as to why he’s wrong. But Rove isn’t appealling to the mind, he’s appealing to the gut.
One of the good writers on this site needs to think of an effective –and pithy — comeback. I have yet to hear one.
Heya jayt!
please, forgive me for going OT so soon, but our friend Katie is not feeling so good.
Just found this at last night’s Late Nite…
Hi there Late Night FDL, this is Elmore, Katytmine’s friend. She wants me to tell you that, due to her illness, right now she isn’t able to participate on this blog, but she’s here reading all the entries and is thinking of all her friends at FDL.
Hey, Katy, if you read this, We Love You!!!
sending healing vibrations and lurker hugs thru the toobz to ((((((katymine))))))
Katy has been such a staunch supporter of Freedom. Let’s lift her up and then…blog on.
Banana republics subvert the rule of law; democracies uphold it.
Wishing you all the best, katy. Sending all my good vibes your way.
Yes, I understand that. But it’s an abstraction.
You need to counter the swarthy colonel in mirrored sunglasses image.
maybe Rove et al suffered some sort of banana-induced trauma?
on edit:
Hi katymine !!
Banana republics embrace torture; democracies oppose it.
hugs to ((((katymine))))
From Eli’s title:
Sky’s Continue. Nice!
Cool on you dude.
‘Cause we need that.
In a Twilight-Zone/reality-everted kind of way, I can agree with Buchanan to a point. Dr. King, however, was willing to go to jail for his beliefs, and did. I don’t see long lines in front of Leavenworth (or where ever they put these guys) waiting to get in. Did I mis-Google something?
cowered.
I’ve been away in a remote undisclosed (and very peaceful) location since before the mass wingnut public teabagging festival. My reaction upon coming back to the big bad world is that the Bush crowd has lost an immense amount of ground. What they are saying is just too absurd,and evidence that has come out is just too damning.
I just saw a link on another blog (Atrios, I think) to Rich (or is it Rick? Whatever -the news media dude) Sanchez twittering that if little guys involved in this went down, the big guys should go down too. I think that many people are thinking like Sanchez.
If Cheney’s top ten hits of torture success fizzles, as I think it will, if evidence indicates that most of the torture was to find a retrospective rationale for the miserable war in Iraq, and as the number of innocent victims becomes more apparent, then public opinion will swing even more towards due diligence on this, and at a certain point, the big shots will find it difficult to ignore.
Buchanan’s hail Mary pass on King fails. Regarding illegal actions, the main higher law that King (and Thoreau, and Gandhi) stated, is that if you do the crime you do the time, even if you engage in civil disobediance for a moral cause. So, this isn’t going well for them.
I hope Katymine feels well enough to come back soon, and some one tells her than we all miss her.
We had Woodstock. Pat has scrub stock.
Katymine-strength and hope flowing towards you…
I’ll second that e-notion
Well, I guess I should say, one of the main parts of following the higher law that King and Thoreau and Gandhi talked about, was accountability for your actions, whether illegal or legal. It wasn’t the whole thing. But, anyway, for some reason ol’ Pat omitted the part that you sholdn’t weasling out about what you did.
Indeed things are showing the Neo-Cons twisting themselves into logical pretzels like some contortionist burglar trying to hide inside a suitcase when the police are bearing down on his hideout.
“Dr. King supported torture!” “Banana Republics investigate and punish torturers, not Constitutional democracies!”
And there’s Peggy Noonan claiming that the secret meaning of George Santayanas famous aphorism is just the opposite of what he really was thought to have said about history. When the famous philosopher said:
“Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience. – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905
Noonan asserts that this means “Move On, forget the past, don’t investigate”…you see, it’s right there!
Then there is the Publisher of the New York Times today sayingf that if there are investigations and prosecutions well stuff might be disclosed…bad stuff! So much for that famous masthead “All the news that’s fit to print.”
((((katymine))))
Hi wesgpc…you’re right:
And hugs to Katymine.
Well, the conservatives *want* to repeat the past…
Fortunately, most people think Banana Republic is a clothing store…Rove is a creepy fanatic and anyone that believes anything uttered from his fork-ed tongue is a creep too.
Yep. Round about 1950. Idiots.
The Repubic National Extremist Party of Total Paranoia, Fear, Torture, Corruption, and Stupidity has decided to rename the Democratic Party as the Democrat Socialist Party or something like that….Bwahahahaha
oh demi, thank you so much for sharing it. and thank you elmore.
(((((katymine))))) lots of love and hugs for you.
((((((katymine))))))
I’d say 1890ish more like it. Robber barons and all that, doncha know.
Katymine! Get well soon…I know that all the nasty news can be a downer, but I guess we have to learn the worst to clean it up. Keep strong!
Prayers and thoughts…our best to you both. Thank you Elmore for letting us know.
Even in new party names they give us the upper hand.
Which is easier to spit out?
Party of NO or
Democrat Socialist Party
When brains were passed out these guys heard “trains” and missed theirs.
Works for me!
(((katymine)))
OT…but check this out in relation to the swine flu thingy:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/…..6420090424
Damn. I gotta move further south?
And NO is so easily confused with, thought to be, New Orleans. One would think they would try to avoid that as well.
One major symptom of schizophrenia is “thought disorder.” It is a bit alarming that so much of what they say, in addition to the lies, does not make sense.
I’ve listened to schizophrenics in full blown psychosis make more sense than these people.
hahaha
Of course agreeing with you, I still wonder how so many people have been mislead….including the Supreme Court that gave us the Boy King Idiot W
I believe they really are frantic. My Granny used to say “running around like chickens with their heads cut off”. That seems to describe it.
And W is in his cul de sac…what he hath wrought? At least there is some serious resistance about his stupid libary.
It’s the culture of capital. Ideology, wealth and power. Highly resistant to change. More addictive than crack. Don’t get me started down that path.
This morning on Morning Joe…Scarborough (making the case for torture of course), along with Buchanan..same thing…attributed the fact that they thought torture was okay because they are “wired” differently from “libruls”…WTF???? Wired differently???? There we have it…they are robots.
Bruce the Dick…bawk, bawk, bawk…
That is probably truth…going to the paper on what makes Republicans…the great theme of authoritarian outlook. That makes torture very appealing.
firstly, those clowns are not conservatives. they are fascist bastids. gangster apologists. acolytes even.
decades ago, gore vidal identified bill buckley and his ilk as crypto-nazis. he described them accurately.
the evidence of that crypto-nazism, though somewhat hidden, is out there.
though there are many incidents revealing that the fascist bastids control the united states of amerika, i think of one in particular. the toppling of a constitutional, parliamentary government on 11 September 1973. Chile. murdering the elected head of state, salvador allende. replacing it with a military junta.
a junta who under the direction of the USOFAMERIKA TORTURED AND MURDERED THOUSANDS.
though underreported, the president of chile, michelle bachelet[whose father was tortured and murdered because he refused to participate in the coup]has decided to prosecute those in the chilean military who orchestrated the caravan of death[for a revelation, see patricia verdugo’s book, CHILE, PINOCHET, AND THE CARAVAN OF DEATH, isbn 1574540858].
then there is heraldo munoz memoir, THE DICTATOR’S SHADOW: LIFE UNDER AUGUSTO PINOCHET. A POLITICAL MEMOIR.
if Chile can finally do it. so can we.
venceremos.
Lemme get this straight.
The uberreichwingnut pundits et al are hardwired to be uberreichwingnuts.
LGBT folks have a choice.
Disassociative personality disorder.
Quoting Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. as authority for torture. That has to be a first. Oh, no, that would actually go to Torquemada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…..Torquemada
This may be an OT thought…I’m heartsick at the silence about the impact of this policy on our young soldiers. Screw the Bush lawyers. And tar-n-feather them.
We have young friends,24,25,31 who were interrorgators. Fine young men who signed up to defend the country after 9/11.
They fight to end Stop Loss, they fight every damn day to wake their nation up to her soldiers plight. To make our nation wake-up to what we have done to our military and the Irak people.
They suffer ptsd every day and move forward. Their families suffer the effects of ptsd and move forward.
Can we start thinking about them?!? Before the Torture Porn photos are released……….PLEASE?
You are so right….and the thing about “talking points” is that they are not supposed to be so OBVIOUS.
I’ve now heard “Banana Republic” more times this last week coming from the Republican cake-hole than I’ve heard in my entire life.
Repubs are still acting “pre-fax machine”
We really should call them “Banana Republicans” more often…
The Banana Republican Party of Nowhere.
From Michael Perino on Moyers:
Bankers Behaving Badly
Exactly. Cheney cowered into marriage, then children because he is a frightened little man.
as in “the honorable esteemed banana republican john cornyn from the state of texas”
Let’s see…and revisit the Negroponte days….architect of the very crappola they are trying to accuse the Dems of..
The Cabal has for years and years and years created fascist (corporate-driven regimes) regimes…murdered countless people all over the world…all on the dark side and in the so-called name of democracy.
Spit.
Critical thought. Is our children learning?
Well, we could pull a “Rove” and re-release pictures of his stepfather modeling penis piercings. Or choose a higher path…..or not….go for ugly……or not.
The liberal’s dilemma.
Oh, as long as I’m dragging nasty gossip into this. So, if Cheney’s lesbian,yet woman hating daughter becomes pregnant….Is it for the desire for Motherhood? Or the desire for DNA perfect stem cells?
And other organs. Major organs.
Jeez, it’s kind of fun to just act out like a nasty little shithead!!!!!
No wonder Rush loves his job. If I had his drugs and his sex slaves….I’m thinking I could be bolder.
gregg has his friday nite elephants on parade upstairs
Evil Uncle Pat slid that Dr King reference in right under the closing bell, knowing full well how infuriating it would be, and that both Prof Turley and Tweety would be greeting him with the required smiles at the end of the segment, per established “debate on teevee machine” rules, without having quite digested the horrific depraved statement he had just laid on the table.
Rachel used to have Uncle Pat on quite a bit; I like to think my constant “turning off my teevee machine NOW” emails whenever it happened had some small thing to do with his less frequent appearances on her programme.
Buchanan is a stone-cold racist and Nixon apologist. He deserves no one’s accolades, respect, or airtime.
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.”
Is that the Dr. King he’s referring to?
Or maybe it’s this Dr. King:
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
Thanks Eli.
Am listening to David Brooks on Newshour support torture as having been successful … and sarcastically asking… are you going to prosecute the likes of lawyers who wrote legal memos.. is that illegal to write a legal memo? what the heck kind of rhetorical question is that? …(hello, David… look at their contents!) …prosecute Pelosi, Feinstein? He asks as if that would be the end of the world as we know it. It actually would be. It would be exiting the accountability coma.
It alarms me Obama is as Shields says “ambivalent” about torture and prosecuting it. I fear Obama does not want to alienate his political cronies who are within the ripples of guilt for torture on the Dem side of the aisle particularly. Pelosi and Jay Rock had heads up at times, among others.
I think of how much time and money and energy went to prosecuting Bill Clinton for Whitewater and Monica… and yet let’s sweep Abu Ghraib under the rug, Gitmo, 183 waterboardings in one month for one person, 108 deaths due to detention or inadvertently over-enhanced torture. God forbid anyone PAUSE and take in the horrifying malicious heart of darkness that has been our entrusted government.
I keep thinking of The Bush Tragedy book that revealed how W tortured pledges who wanted his fraternity by branding with hot coat hangers and lit cigarettes and only after Yale Daily News editorialized about his intention to use real brands which he was forbidden to use. Well, Yaley Daily, look at him now! I keep thinking about secret organizations like Skull and Bones and the Masons.
David Brooks is declaring that Obama is not an “ideologue” THANK GOD!!!! … is that the new buzz word? spelling? Yeah, God help us that people are committed to some concrete ideals and moral behavior. Save us from people who have ideals and principles. Am I missing something. Is that a negative connotative word? Must google and explore more. Or help me anyone on this?
Here is Wilkerson’s smackdown of cheney on Rachel’s show tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtxoZw4K6kE
John McCain calling it a “witch hunt”. God, if the broomstick and cauldron fits! Bad for the country and future presidents?
Buchanan… “don’t go near the political class for accountability”… of course not. He is part of it. And Buchanan is a cheerleader for “enhanced interrogation”? Also, Mr. Culture Wars, wedge issues, is so afraid of stressing the country??? What a hoot he is, except it is frightening the air time he is given. Love that Turley told Buchanan to calm down. Citing Dr. King as his backup is just so over the top surreal and CREEEEEEEPY of PB.
One serious grave-roll there!
Matthews… why are you so righteous to JT? Unbelievable. I like someone who uses the metaphor of an American soul. About time. Jonathan Turley has it right! Krugman, too. We as a country ratified the Geneva Convention. Why is law no longer honored? Higher laws than constitutional laws, like the ones dropping out of PB’s mouth????
so grateful for this! love his take on Cheney!
They do it all the time. Yesterday evening it was an @#$%^&* on my train who was saying they should tear down the apartment buildings on my street (including the one I live in) and put in single-family homes … never mind that it’s a busy street and that it’s light-industrial stuff across the street. (I think he believes everyone in the apartments (a) can afford a house or (b) is undocumented or (c) is a registered sex offender.)
I’d say that he’s an a-hole but that would be overrating his qualities, as well as an insult to honest a-holes everywhere.
def of idealogue: Merriam:
1 : an impractical idealist : theorist
2 : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology
so a put down? I thought it was just someone who theorized and had ideals…?
iconoclast:
1 : a person who destroys religious images or opposes their veneration
2 : a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions
LIKE THE SOUND OF PART 2 ESPECIALLY … STATUS QUO CORRUPTION & CRONYISM, worthy of attacks
Wow. Great analysis here:
Yeah, that was a stunner statement from PB and as you said, no one had no time to wrap their mind around such a surreal and disgusting assertion.
The video doesn’t capture the last two or three seconds of that segment. If it had, you’d see that even Pat had to grin at the ridiculousness of him pulling the Dr. King card in that context.
Eli wrote:
I’m beginning to believe she is a truly great performance artiste. Heh.
What can Joe Barton do to top *that*?
Milton Freidman (economist, Chicago school of econ, Libertarianish Repub) was impressed by the 1920s economy and always saw that as the epitome. Well, we’ve pretty well recreated it in all it’s gory glory.
I refuse to do that. I like bananas too much.
Thanks for this post Eli.. now I know…
May I suggest the moniker Bunhunhuhs, a mixture of Banana and unh-unh, for Banana Republicans?
“You may be right on what the law says, but there is a higher moral law. That’s what… That’s what Dr. King was all about.”
Besides Pat pathetically unable to make this King link to torture and morals.
Pat insinuates that “higher moral law”. Is God’s law and we abide by God’s law. Therefore torture is ordained by God to America to perform?
Is there a theologian in the blog that can tell us if torture is OK in the Bible and Jesus thinks it is more than alright outside of a ticking time bomb scenario.??
Calling the resident theologian ?
I think we need to articulate better why we are not on a witch hunt.
In a witch hunt, there is an agenda of demonizing. Accountability is a useful facade. Cherry picking of evidence, to selectively support an argument and to summarily ignore anything contrary, is a feature, not a bug.
Israel pursued Nazi war criminals for over 30 years after World War II. McCain’s think our pursuit of Bush war criminals lasts too long if it goes past a few months. Which position has more integrity?