The hell with a damn commission – investigate then prosecute!

Pugulist extraordinaire Reid?
Democrat Reid?
Leader Reid?
I never would have guessed.

Mitch still literally owns his ass. FWIW, he is welcome to it.

Primary challenge DINO incumbent, replace, repeat.

Yes, that’s the procedure, Jane. At least, it’s close enough to explain the process as we’ve seen it play out.

Either completely spineless or hopelessly compromised, in any case Reid must go.

“Retribution should not be a part of what we’re talking about.”

And no one is talking about retribution – except for people like Reid who want to sit on their asses and do nothing until the statute of limitations makes prosecution a moot point.

Arrrrrrgh!

The history of this blogsite (with sincere respects to all):

1st stage – anti-shrub (no disagreements to speak of)

2d stage – Hillary vs. Obama (lots of disagreements)

3rd stage – Obama’s elected (cheering all around)

4th stage – Obama carries forward with odious Bush policies and programs (widespread grumbling and gnashing of teeth)

5th stage – ?

you left out Obama and his staff’s actions in all this — he held a private meeting on Wed night to tell them not to investigate and to kill Pelosi’s plans. A day after publcly inviting Congress to act.

like he sent Rahm to ensure the stimulus had so many taxcuts, and made those few senators happy.

…

it’s not just Blue Dogs and Congress — this only “works” because Obama actively steps in to stop the “good intentions” which are all lies anyway.

So true.

It’s a long struggle. President Obama will end the worst abuses of the Bush adminstration, but real change will be after him. He is a conciliator who compromises among “those at the table,” and makes sure the left is not at the table.

Reid is just doing Obama’s dirty work.

Um, survey says you are forgetting something(s), and mishandling some others.

well, I announced earlier that “if i hear the word retribution one more time i shall puke.” Don’t feel anything. Guess that’s ’cause I read it here. Don’t wanna hear it.

What Phastphil said, investigate and prosecute.

And we need a new Senate leader, Harken, Boxer, anyone.

In the end, everyone thinks the administration actually “did” something, Obama’s approval numbers remain high, and the rich, the powerful, and the establishment still get what they want.

Now that we at FDL are considered the establishment, can I say that this is NOT what I want?

Apologies. Just my observations. But I’m interested in knowing where I’m wrong. Thanks.

There has been a rather consistent refrain of “Rule of law! Rule of law!” around here, as long as I can recall — no matter who is in office and who is being skewered for abandoning it.

Ding

… in any case Reid must go.

All the spineless geriatrics need to go, Leahy included. Senators like Whitehouse and Feingold need to step forward and tell the stammering geezers their act is over.

It’s funny, but I remember a free-flowing river of tolerated trolls, and the disagreements were at a fever-pitch, and around the clock.

And: Plame-Wilson.

Not. This. Time.

I will not stop until there are prosecutions.

I don’t believe I am alone.

Reid is up for reelection this year.

You know what they do with log-jambs right?

Feingold voted to confirm Roberts, I am not too keen on Feingold.

In the end, everyone thinks the administration actually “did” something, Obama’s approval numbers remain high, and the rich, the powerful, and the establishment still get what they want

can we expect them to keep using this play until obama is made to own the outcome?

and Franken. Please God.

5th stage is to vote him — and the rest of them — out of office — whether it’s with primary challenges or for 3rd parties or for their opponents.

If we’re getting Bush’s 3rd term anyway and expansions on it all, there’s no point in keeping what’s supposed to be the opposition and the ones who do good for us (and isn’t — in any way) in power, is there?

Neither party wants to make true single-payer healthcare for all a reality, nor wants to end the horrible “free trade” policies that move jobs away, nor wants to protect and defend our rights and laws, nor wants to stop corporations writing our laws, etc — nor believes in the public sector and public programs or a government that directly provides for us instead a wealthy and powerful corporate elite.

Obama believes he can play the public for a fool. Sounds much like his predecessor. There must be key Dems hiding something. Either way we are a country which tortures now and Obama is in our way to stop it. There is no difference between Bush and Gonzalez and Obama and Holder. Unless Holder DOES HIS JOB. We need a third party.

All the bleating by Obama about partisan payback and “looking forward” confuses and bothers me. He’s gotten his legislation through with close to zero support from the GOP, he’s already in the deepest partisanship possible. On top of this, there are times when doing the right thing is more important than politics. This is certainly one of them.

The bottom line is Bush and gang will eventually be tried as international criminals. There’s enough evidence in the wild to make a credible case. The only question really left is how much stonewalling does the US government want to engage in, turning the whole lot of us into pariahs?

the “accountability moment” has passed — unless the people vote him out the media and entire corporate-loving Congress will never make him “own the outcome” — they’re all thrilled and approving — and ensuring the continuing marginalization of all not onboard.

Precisely, Sister Jane

they won’t be tried — Holder will never do it. They — and Congress — release absolute proof of crimes and horrors — and then Holder says “If there’s evidence of crimes”.

And Obama and Holder talk of the “rule of law”, etc, and in the next breath say which groups it will not apply to.

And the Harmon thing has laid bare that none of them think the law applies to them — ever — even when they write it and it harms all the rest of us.

Truth commissions, like the 9-11 commission, are a DC circle jerk. All show, no real substance but everyone feels good about themselves. Eric Holder has the power to do what’s necessary here.

Still, Harry Ried is a quisling shitweasel who MUST be primaried out of his seat. Nothing will be accomplished with this Republican mole ruling the Senate.

Nevada Democrats would never dump him. But maybe we could persuade Senate Democrats to select a new majority leader.

The FISA sell-out told you all that you really needed to know about obama and that he was pretty much principle-less, but once he hired emanuel, the most deceitful bastard in the democratic party who specializes in making sure that big money gets exactly what they want while posturing that the democrats “did the best the could”, it was obvious that he not only was not going to keep his word but instead deceitfully do the exact opposite.

emanuel is nothing about change and neither is the pope of hope.

Z

Isn’t this exactly what Bush did? Politicize CRIMINAL ACTIVITY? So Obama doesn’t want to have any investigations because his AGENDA might not get done? REALLY?????? And his puppy dog Reid says yesiree sir, whatever you say and how high may I jump for you?

Besides, it’s the DOJ who is supposed to decide this sort of thing, not the WH.

CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN. riiiiggghhhhttt.

Jane,

I couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t think it matters what we say or do. They are just going to go through the motions. I give up. I’ll still read, but I give up.

Peace!

Lessee,

At a meeting of top Democrats at the White House Wednesday night, President Obama told Congressional leaders that he did not want a special inquiry, which he said would potentially steal time and energy from his ambitious policy priorities, and could mushroom into a wider distraction by looking back at other aspects of the Bush years.

I think Krugman responded quite reasonably:

For example, would investigating the crimes of the Bush era really divert time and energy needed elsewhere? Let’s be concrete: whose time and energy are we talking about?

Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, wouldn’t be called away from his efforts to rescue the economy. Peter Orszag, the budget director, wouldn’t be called away from his efforts to reform health care. Steven Chu, the energy secretary, wouldn’t be called away from his efforts to limit climate change. Even the president needn’t, and indeed shouldn’t, be involved. All he would have to do is let the Justice Department do its job — which he’s supposed to do in any case — and not get in the way of any Congressional investigations.

I don’t know about you, but I think America is capable of uncovering the truth and enforcing the law even while it goes about its other business.

Looks like Reid and Obama took a the page out of Arlen Specter’s playbook

i disagree. i meant “own it” in that approval numbers ought to reflect what obamaco have actually done for ordinary people — that acting to please the establishment should not continue to give him high approval numbers with his base

I see Digg is still showing names of folks I’ve never heard of before. Must be friends of Digg. I even get spam from Digg.

I give up too. next thing he’ll be caving in for the banks and nothing will get done with the credit card problems. But oh boy he had a MEETING with the banksters and credit card companies.

Once again it LOOKS like he’s really taking care of business but nothing happens.

DC is a cesspool from top on down.

Hey, I’m a new huuuuuge fan of Pelosi as a gutsy leader. She’s coming in to her own self as a great champion of all the people – and puts her money where her mouth is and balls..aren’t.

She wears more balls around her neck for decoration than most of the Senate has in totale.

At least 1/3 of the congress is involved in a obstruction of justice because they are also guilty , right nancy.

Anyway who killed them Kennedy’s ? After all it was you and me.

Think back to 2000 election when the supreme court decided our election with two contaminated justices scalia and thomas. Both had family members employed by the bush campaign. They should have reclused themselves in a conflict of interest ,big time.
What did you hear? Nothing then you get stephen and alito. Who the fuch put these two creeps on the bench and why should they remain?

At this point all I see is the continuation of a corporate state.

Worse yet, a corporate media state. The echo chamber has totally intimidated the Democratic party. Their leadership, at any rate.

Pelosi was already talking of granting immunity for testifying tho — and knew from the start that Obama and all of DC was against it.

Her option wouldn’t have resulted in punishment or prosecution either — it would have actually prevented it — for the bigshots.

emptywheel is at it again, at the top of the front page-
Cheney Cherry Picks Intelligence Again

With what has come out, I believe Bush et al will indeed be tried. Perhaps not by the US legal system, but eventually somewhere in the world they will be held accountable. The foul acts they committed stretched well beyond our borders.

Pelosi took impeachment off the table before the table was even set. You are right, she damn well would never allow prosecution or punishment. Just a sop for the unwashed masses.

please don’t give up folks!

but even that doesn’t matter — and he’s getting very high approval ratings while continuing and expanding Bush’s policies now anyway.

it won’t change his actions — and Congress “owns” in that sense right now, but it doesn’t matter to them at all either — caving into Bush’s demands for years — and lying to us — has resulted in more Democratic seats and power and corporate cash, after all.

A commission would be a consolation prize for those who want the law enforced. It would be better than nothing.

Just imagine how people would react to a Mayor or Governor playing these kinds of games with who will or will not be prosecuted, based on how enforcing the law will play politically.

When former AG Gonzalez left town, I thought the rule of law would return. Unfortunately, the AG as Chief Yes Man to the President may have become a permanent part of the political landscape. The Bush legacy is the gift that keeps on giving.

The media is just the PR section. The “conservative” part of the country listening or watching corporate media provides the sponsors and corporate heads enough viewers to make their endeavours profitable. Premiere Media just signed Randi Rhodes saying that they believe her opposite views will provide the numbers to, say it with me, be profitable. St Ronnie of RayGuns said the business of America is business. Business says the business of business is to produce profits.

I agree with Selise. I think people are horrified by the torture revelations and by the inability of Washington to hold anyone accountable. I don’t think this issue is going away.

so how do we work to change that?

i don’t want to give up just because there are no politicians to do our job for us.

Now you know me better than that. I just fight harder when the chips are down.

“Impeachment is off the table’ Pelosi, you have got to be kidding.

Now that we at FDL are considered the establishment, can I say that this is NOT what I want?

It says, “established liberal powerhouses” — it doesn’t say we are “the establishment.” I consider it a compliment to FDL.

Heads of Superpowers don’t get criminally convicted or punished by other countries.

And it’s our absolute mandate alone — if our laws mean anything in reality, that is. Only the US legal system can prosecute the powerful for breaking our laws — but never does anymore. Only Congress can impeach and remove — but never does anymore either.

our political elite is unaccountable everywhere no matter what they do nowadays.

you rock SD!

Yesterday on Morning Joe – I detest that show – Chuck Todd came within a whisker of mentioning the McClatchy story about torture designed to produce false confessions. You could see the wheels turning in his head as he stopped just in time. I think they don’t want to touch that with a ten foot pole. Didn’t Obama say today that he didn’t want investigations to widen into other actions of the Bush administration? Like, for instance, torturing someone almost to death to cover their asses for lying us into war?

From FastCompany:

get the attention of the established liberal powerhouses like TPM, HuffPo, and Firedoglake.

I don’t see the word “established” in this sense the same as the “establishment.”

It is nice to be seen as a powerhouse liberal blog, however.

we have to fire the bad ones, and elect better ones — even if it hurts a party’s control of House or Senate or WH.

right now, they’re being continually rewarded for doing what we don’t want done — and for ruling out and ignoring what we desperately need done for us.

if sitting politicians of both parties are doing the same horrible things and share the same horrible priorities and keep harming us no matter what, why the f*ck should any of them stay in office?

(and SD @ 62)

So I don’t have to worry about someone trying to steal my birkenstocks?

*g*

people were horrified when the Abu Ghraib pics came out too — how did that work out?

Or mine! (LOL)

It is gratifying to see FDL and a few other “liberal powerhouses” recognized. Both Rachel and KO have mentioned various progressive blogs regularly over the past weeks, and it makes me smile.

It is truly a crying shame though, for all the people who worked so hard for their party and Obama, against such a corrupt and evil cabal, to see it all cast aside and to be told back off. We have the Repugs where we want them after so long and it is slipping through our fingers.

If the House wants to have an investigation, I don’t see what Obama or Reid can do to stop it. It will make for interesting political theater though if Obama stonewalls Democrats in the House to protect Bush-era lawbreakers.

And while Obama’s poll numbers are high now, I would point out that Bush’s were even higher after 9/11 and look where he and his ended up.

was the beginning of the end for Rummy, for one. I’m not saying being horrified, in and of itself, brings about change. I’m saying it’s a teachable moment in America, despite (perhaps because of?) the cowardice of our witless leaders. Don’t despair, organize!

Thanks, Jane — It’s Anthem time.

jane – ck the FDL mail – i just sent an update

scott murphy wins ny 20 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harry “Hit Me Again!” Reid™ fakes a left, a right, a wild uppercut, and never once hits his own shadow.

Note: Yes, “Hit Me Again!” is riffing on “give me another card” at Blackjack in Lost Wages which is where Harry’s from or Harry’s 0-Zillion record as a pugilist. Take yer choice. *g*

people don’t need to be taught – our elected officials need to uphold our laws and Constitution and stop hurting us.

People already know — that handing trillions to Wall St is wrong and harms us. That “free trade” does too.

– that torture is evil and illegal — that it’s the very thing our “enemies” do.

– they they lied us into war, and lied us about ending it, and are expanding it all still.

– that our rights matter.

– that we’re all subject to the law and get punished when we break them — while politicians of both parties never do.

– that our media sucks and passes on all of DC’s lies and spin.

…

this is not about teaching or needing to be taught anything — we all already know these things.

How would the vets feel about knowing that torture was committed in order to get a false confession to cover the Bush administration’s lying us into war? That as they were fighting and dying for the values we hold so proudly, Bush was torturing a prisoner in order to provide himself with a human shield?

If we could get the vets to speak out, loudly, it might get Obama’s attention.

We must defeat Reid in a primary fight. That is the only way Obama is going to pay serious attention to liberals on the matters we are concerned deeply about. America does not condone torture. America demands civil liberties. America demands serious change in the way Wall Street conducts business. In order to gain these we must defeat Harry Reid.

Greenwald –
“>Democratic complicity and what “politicizing justice” really means

… That’s our bipartisan Washington establishment in a nutshell: key Bush torture architects such as John Rizzo and Bush intelligence policy defenders such as John Brennan are able to remain in positions of high power in the Obama administration, while those, like Johnsen, who want accountability for government crimes are considered fringe, extremist and unfit for office.

Teddy’s Silo post is upstairs!
BREAKING NY-20: Jim Tedisco Concedes to Scott Murphy

I give up as well. Absolutely nothing has changed, or will change. Reid, Obama, et all are dirty, and the real pullers of the levers of power have the goods on the whole lot of them. They are being blackmailed. It is organized crime, rolling right on along, business as usual. We’re just lowly serfs, or consumers. The whole system is fucked. Time to build that remote cabin, grow a garden, and go off the grid. These motherfuckers have no intention of doing the right thing, only licking their corporate masters’ boots.

Until somehow we can establish term limits as per the POTUS, our Gvt will be corrupt, and concerned with one thing……….BEING REELECTED !!

Mr. Obama’s poll numbers won’t remain high as the public catches on that the Senate’s role is to play catch with whatever the House pitches, with the end result that everything’s caught in the glove and nothing gets done. If Rahm thinks that’s successful triangulating, it’s obvious why he won’t succeed Mr. Obama in the White House.

Chris Floyd – Top of the Heap: The Democrats’ Teachable Moment on Torture –

… o now we come to what is called, in the treacly, touchy-feely parlance of our day, a “teachable moment.” Here is one of the most clear-cut points of national decision and self-definition that can be imagined. Clear, credible evidence of atrocity and conspiracy has been produced. The course prescribed by law is clear: criminal investigation and, if warranted, prosecution. If, as you claim, your state is founded upon the rule of law, then there simply is no choice in the matter: the torture program and all of its perpetrators, facilitators and instigators must be subjected to the due process of law, without fear or favor.

If this does not happen, then your state, however modernized and sophisticated, is nothing but a gilded barbarism, a gangland, where the brute force of money, privilege and power hold tyrannical sway. There is no law, only the triumph of the will of corrupt and criminal factions as they preen and jostle for position atop a fetid heap of blood and filth.

President Barack Obama and the Democratic leaders have now openly joined the long-time Republican resistance to applying the law of the land to the torture program. What lesson, then, are we to take from this “teachable moment”? What does this decision, this act of self-definition, say about the true nature of the American system of government today? Where does it put our righteous, noble, God-professing leaders?

You forgot Step V 1/2: We the People take to ths streets and show them the errors in their thinking. Nothing less than this is going to shake up them out of their Beltway cocktail circuit thinking in which the imperatives and priorities are in perfect alignment regardless of the letter following their name. Change we can believe in my ass.

Maybe this is all “make me do it” on Obama’s part. I say we oblige him.

Not ALL of them came out. They protected us from seeing what our employees did over there. They covered it up also by convicting some of the soldiers who directly participated…soldiers who didn’t apparently know any better.

Way late .. But just so you are aware – Bybee is, like Harry, a Latter Day Saint, AND served on the Bench in Nevada … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bybee

So I would not think that Harry Reid would make any moves that would jeopardize a torture-enabler. Is there info on whether Harry supported Bybee’s appointment to the Ninth Circuit?

The Democrats aren’t going to elect a new senate leader. They wouldn’t have elected Reid if they didn’t want Reid. It’s not like he’s changed or anything. He doesn’t seem to attract much dissent either.

Well, he voted Yea on his confirmation. Not sure if he actively supported him or not. End of a long night here so I haven’t looked that hard.

Here’s the roll call vote: http://www.senate.gov/legislat…..vote=00054

Vote was 74-19 with 7 not voting. Hope that helps.

No.

Jane got hammered for never endorsing BO.

In a two-horse race with McSane, it was easy to support Barack. I have no regrets, he only won 53% of the vote.

You can go back to the archived posts. After Edwards dropped out, there was genuine concern about BO and HRC.

Thanks Jane.

I disagree; some things have changed. most importantly the decision to proceed with nuclear disarmament.

which is more important, nuclear disarmament, or prosecuting torturers?