Hello everyone — looking forward to this chat.

Sorry, my browser crashed!

Please stay ON TOPIC, which tonight centers around the Debra Chasnoff’s documentary Straightlaced: teens, sexuality, gender roles, LGBTQ&A teens, the affect of media and society on kids and their views of themselves and others; however Miss California can be included in discussions, since her comments will definitely color attitudes for a while!
No off-topic cross talk, either. Thanks!!

Hi Debra, thanks for joining us.

Debra, I cried during this movie when Josh’s story was told. Thank you for making a film every public school should have as part of assembly programs and which every PTA member should watch. Please tell us how you came to make Straightlaced.

I have been working for many years to find ways to open up dialogue about the way that anti-gay prejudice affects young people, and wanted to make a film for and about high school students because I had one son in high school and another about to get there.

It was wonderful how you got the kids ot really open up to you, especially the ones who were very uptight about being thought of as gay Mike S and Israel especially

THe interesting thing was that everyone we interviewed really wanted to talk about what they went through privately. It was kind of like doing therapy.

Debra, welcome to FDL. Can you tell us where we can see this documentary, please? For example, will it be in major theatre chains, or only in independants?

It seems to me that pressure have gotten greater on kids, or maybe I was just really sheltered as a teen…and I am glad you had kids get into the use of “gay” as both a perjorative adjective and as an insult directly aimed at their sexuality

well our culture is way more open now than it used to be — look at all the characters on tv who are gay. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into a supportive community or school climate. In fact, I was really sad to hear so many stories of teachers who were part of the problem.

Excuse my ignorance ,I know what LGBT stands for but what does Q and A mean ?

I found the screenings page, but it appears to be showing only on the east & west coast except for a couple showings in the way-up-north. Any hope of getting it into Texas? (Yeah, I know it won’t be really welcome in large parts of TX, but I’m hoping anyway).

Q means “questioning” and I don’t know what A is! sometimes I see “I” which means intersex. I think that was a typo.

One of my daughters just graduated from the late-lamented Antioch College. I feel being there was just fantastic for her in terms of her feeling comfortable with herself. I also feel that many of the members of the board of directors of Antioch University felt very uncomfortable with Antioch College, the faculty and the student body — and I also feel that their discomfort is one of the primary reasons that when there were financial problems, they felt VERY comfortable with breaking their contract with the faculty and their fiduciary and educational responsibilities to the student body and the college and shutting the place down.

I was really lucky to have gone a private school in the late 1970s, actually during the Briggs fight in CA (Briggs tried to ban gay teachers) and we had LGB teachers and it was like “whatever” no one cared, though if you as a student were lesbian–that was a scandal

A=Allies

Q is usually queer and A is allies, those who support their LGBTQ friends but are straight-and can catch flack for it.

Mithras – we are working on organizing screenings in Austin and Houston and hopefuly partnering with the Texas Gay Straight Alliance network to get it shown throughout Texas next fall. Also working on Denver for the fall and Minneapolis. But we are very happy to partner with local organizations who want to produce a screening in their town, especially to benefit groups working on youth empowerment, education reform, sexuality education, girls leadership etc.

Ah yes Allies. Well the film is a lot about Allies — most of the students in Straightlaced are straight actually. That’s what’s really different about this film.

Thank you so much for shining a light on the struggles and successes of LGBTQQI youth, Debra. Given the high suicide rates among these teens, every opportunity to provide sunlight and harmony is a real advance in our culture. I hope your movie saves some lives.

at least in hght school–as your doc shows. I am astounded at how much insecurity and fear there is around the idea of people how seem different.

From the whole Kiwi/Roget family, I come on here to say I was wrong, Lisa and I apologize thinking you wouldn’t want to come down from the HHills into the streets since this post does that byways.

We see these kids daily, more like nightly and predawn for me on the streets of Hollywood. Families not near accepting, I’ll hop a bus or thumb it and go to Hollyweird where they accept anything. If only that was the reality. Then they are the used and refuse. End up working at Popeyes or at a charity’s door if fortuned.

Thrown out like trash and looking to live as best they can.
Thx for this film, Debra Chasnoff. The kids laughing and hugging in yr trailer are marvelous.

Dennis aka Kiwi

It’s really true. Did you see this story today?

http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..paign=8315

It is really sad, and unfortunately EXACTLY why we made the film.

The gender pressures these kids feel–especially the boys, not being able to express emotions, having to lie about having sex to be accepted, , not being able to hug…really messed up.

Thank you! I hope you can come to the Los Angeles premiere on April 30. It’s gonna be amazing. Dustin Lance Black, the screenwriter for “MILK” and Bruce Cohen the producer are going to intro the film.

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I have had many men, straight and gay, come up to me after watching the film and say “hey this isn’t just about teenagers. I totally relate.” Almost every guy we interviewed told us something about the way he self-censors to be sure that no one questions his masculinity.

Mine did also shortly after I first opened this link?? Lurk any backroom problems going on??

I’m trying to figure out how it’s harder now than when Lisa or I were in school.

I went to speak at my high school. Afterward, I was answering questions outside from a number of students. Two of the guys were holding hands while they asked questions. No one so much as blinked.

In the early-’70s at the same high school, they’d have been pummeled. High school isn’t supposed to be easy. It’s training for the real world, which is extremely difficult.

Hey Dennis, “walking distance” is relative in Hollywood, I live in the flats, and I it breaks my heart to see kids in Hollywood. I went ot LACC for summer school and there was a kid who had run away form his Central CA town because he=is style of dress and GTQ demeanor was in conflict wiht what he called Central American macho values. He had lived on the streets until LA Youth Network helped him get settled (they are a great group, btw). I worked i Hollywood for a while and say many young T kids working the street for money, broke my heart. I truly felt for one of the girls in yuor film Debra–Briselda, how her mom wouldnt accpet her, and how he rmother’s rejection drove her to drugs and eventualy jail–but her story was so full of hope as was Rey’s..

Elementary kids use the word “gay” to connote anything bad, or weird, or just to describe something that they don’t like (ie Broccoli is gay!) I had a yearlong tussle with my kid’s 2nd grade teacher about her coming down heavy on kids who said “hell”, or “shit”, but never batting an eye when they called each other “gay “. She just didn’t see anything wrong with it. Then of course my 2nd grader grew up into a gay man who is truly a wonderful human being. I wish I’d smacked that teacher back then when I had the chance.

It is impossible to generalize on “how things are today” because I think they are contradictory. Within the same school community you can have support for a gay couple, but then someone else gets beaten up for being gender non-conforming. It’s really tough to be sure you are safe, especially when the administrators and teachers don’t take a united approach to ensure that everyone can be who they really are.

Thank gods for Gay Straight student alliances and for media awareness..but on the flip side we have Miss California…

Marvelous! I’ll have to keep an eye out for the Houston showings.

My daughters are in their 20s now ,when they were in school the kids seemed to accept the gay and lesbian kids, not shun them.It was almost like the kids thought it was cool to hang out with the gay kids.
Some kids even went out of their way to act gay to get attention.
I guess it depends how kids are brought up, my wife and I tried to teach our kids tolerance for others who may be a little different.

conniptionfit, homosexuals in the ’60s appropriated the word “gay” to mean what they wanted it to mean, and that’s fine.

However, it’s 40 years later. If a new generation wants to re-appropriate that word for their own purposes, I don’t see why it’s a problem if they do so.

I made another film about exactly that topic. It’s called It’s Elementary—Talking About Gay Issues in School. It’s been shown at hundreds of faculty meetings to help open teachers’ eyes and get them to see that they have both the ability and a responsibility to address all kinds of prejudice, even in a third grade classroom.

ABut ten yrs ago worked at a record label and the 20 somehting chick n the next cubicle saud :that’s so gay” and I turned ot her and said,”The next time I’m going to HR about that.It’s unacceptbale.” She tried to pass it off “Oh menat it’s so happy..” and I didnt back down. She STFU aftr that

That’s great! We need more parents like you. And we need parents to stand up to those who try to censor this kind of discussion in schools.

Lisa my browser just crashed too !
Has our site got a virus ?

SFTU?

Well, my take is that we wouldnt say “that’s so ” about something we thought was vile…

Billy I think not, I just had 13 tabs open!
Debra, STFU = “shut the fword up” I sware a little.

My son and Marie Roget’s daughter want us all to be there. Their emails want it and I will make every effort to be there. Keep up the good work your doing, I sense you will.

and I cant tpye either!

I’ll use that with my teenager…:)

Of course it’s really tough to be sure you are safe, because you aren’t. Life requires personal vigilance. It would be nice if that were not so, but that’s not the case.

There are members of every group (and I mean *every* group) that can get violent when a non-member of that group is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But, by and large, out GBLT kids are far safer today then they’ve ever been in history…in the US, of course. Go to Iran and that statement does not apply.

If you can keep the swearing down to “a little” after the past 8 years, you’re better at it than I am! :)

I’ve rediscovered some of the expression I had purged from my vocabulary after I left the military back in ‘85!

Please tell us a little bit more about some of the kids–what is Rey up to, she was awesome. And how is Michah doing? He broke my heart–not able to take his boyfriend ot the prom form fear–and yet he was brave enought ot speak up on fil and runt he risk of being kicked out the Eagle Scouts

Miss California has her own opinion about gay marriage, and it’s an opinion shared by Pres. Obama and VP Biden.

My 15yo son pronounces it “stuff you,” but that may be a regional thing…

Honey, this was 10 years ago. And those kids know, or are soon enlightened that in these contexts “gay” is just another way to belittle someone. And nobody thinks that it’s just word re-appropriation when a black kid gets called nigger.

Up until a few years ago I owned a business which attracted a lot of young adults. They felt very comfortable discussing just about anything during the frequent times parental units were not around.

Things have changed dramatically on issues of race or sexuality. I never dreamed I would see it change in my lifetime as much as attitudes changed in the 90’s.

All of these students did their interviews with us when they were each at a really poignant moment in their lives. Micah, for example, wasn’t out yet when we filmed him. He’s the one who talked about being an Eagle Scout and how they could take that away from him for participating in this film.

Rey is indeed extraordinary. She has more courage than most people I know — deciding to change her gender in the middle of high school. She is now a freshman (freshwoman!) and is studying to be an attorney.

There are STFU shirts that look like university logo shirts. I am lusting for one….

Don, we’ll debate marriage off list on FB…I just hope it doesnt give more torches and pitchforks to people who dont like LGBTQQI (and A)

I’m curious about this also. BSA in recent years has become significantly less tolerant than when I was a scout. We had several young men who were unsure about their sexuality when I was in, and it wasn’t a big deal. My son, on the other hand, was told from almost the first campout that there is no way to be both gay and a scout. I hope this young man is getting the support he needs & deserves.

Until our national leadership at the highest levels recognizes that discrimination in any form, including marriage equality, employment, and housing, is WRONG, teachers, school administrators and parents will find role models for their niche of hate. We need to pressure our national leaders in political and faith communities to be the change.

This includes the President.

In my mind it begins with the parents ,if the parents are homophobes the kids are gonna have the same negative attitudes
I understand that being gay isn’t a choice it’s just the way you are .I tried to explain that to my kids and that it’s the feelings two people have for each other that is important not that they are the same sex.

Have you been in touch with Micah since then? Also how is Erika who I so enjoyed–especially the comparing womens vs mens deodorants and other items whihc leave us defined

This whole Scouts argument is absurd. I learned more about being a Gay American in Boy Scouts than anywhere else, ever.

He’s in college now and has decided they can come after him if he wants. There is a really fabulous documentary called “scout’s honor” that is part of New Day Films, the distribution company that handles most of our films. It’s about one scout’s efforts to change that insane policy.

You can get some nice STFU shirts at ThinkGeek.com
http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain…..0&y=0

RIGHT ON!

C’mon Mod, I know I used the taboo n-word, but it was entirely appropriate in this circumstance. Dig me out please.

Yes — both Micah and ERicka attended the world premiere of the film and I think they both were blown away. For them, we just did their small interview, but then to see what they had to say put into this broader context of so many diverse youth talking about related topics — was great. Micah wants to volunteer with us at GroundSpark, our non-profit, to help get the film out.

Debra, did any of the kids cathc flak at school for their peers for doiing your doc?

Not that we are aware of. Many of the students have graduated since we did the interviews, and schools haven’t really started using it yet because the DVD isn’t available until this summer.

Where does this anti gay presue come–I know for body images and so on, we cna say “the media/advertsing” but there are so many positive gay role models both n real life and as characters in the media—yet there is such an outspoken fear and loathing of homosexuals in high school, is it fear of the unknown? Uncertainty about one’s own sexuality? Parents?

I work in a residential program for teenaged boys ,using the word gay will result in punishment .There are some of our guys who are struggling with the issue of their sexuality,use of the word gay even if not directed at these kids can be very hurtful

BTW, Straightlaced’s Los Angeles premiere is Apil 30th, http://www.groundspark.org/2208 for more info

Thank you Mod!
Don, words have value and weight. And the idiot who coined “sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me” was a pompous ass.
Currently here in Denver the front page murder trial is about a sweet transgender named Angie whose “boyfriend” beat her to death when she came out to him. His defense lawyers are actually telling the jury that he shouldn’t be convicted of murder because he freaked out. You know, basically it’s not HIS fault because she was really a he, and anyway she told him something he didn’t want to hear., and anyone would have reacted angrily…..

Part of what we wanted to do in Straightlaced is to tease out the connections between homophbobia and the very deep seated beliefs in our culture that there are only certain ways that are acceptable for someone to be if you are born female or born male. I think that homophobia actually is very connected to a disdain for all things female — unless it is for men’s sexual pleasure. So the last thing in the world a man wants to be is to be perceived as “feminine” — and the way to keep men in their place is to threaten them with being called gay which = feminine.

Repeating my old moderated comment at 50:
response to DonWilliams @ 34 (show text)
Honey, this was 10 years ago. And those kids know, or are soon enlightened that in these contexts “gay” is just another way to belittle someone. And nobody thinks that it’s just word re-appropriation when a black kid gets called njgger.

I blame “South Park”

I think the biggest opposition to gays comes from people who are insecure in their own sexuality!

Yet, I know straight men who can’t handle tradiitonally male things, yet are great at the “feminine” arts and crafts, and gay guys who are awesome at doing dude stuff–which just goes to show stereotypes are BS.

Though yes, I do see the misogyny–and you did show that quite well, along wiht the double standards of sexually active boys vs sexually active girls

yeah we’re getting a good response from folks working on sex ed education for that reason

It’s green monkey syndrome. Kids are terrified of appearing different from their peers in any way. They won’t wear certain colors, watch different TV programs, wear their skirts at a length different from the current fad. And anyone who DOES stick out or behave differently is swiftly targeted and cut off at the knees.

The Angie Zapata trial in CO willl be a huge difference…the defense is being really dreadful refering ot Angie as “he” throughout.

Debra, what areas/parts of the country did you draw on for the kids? I recognized Placerville, CA…

Words have as much power over you as you allow them to have, as Richard Pryor so hilariously pointed out.

If you’re comfortable in your own skin, pejoratives directed toward you are nothing more than amusing.

A very close friend of mine has a transgender child. He and his wife provided support, care and encouragement for the child and he is now a productive and happy citizen. What else do people want?

Yes. There is some powerful new research by Dr. Caitlyn Ryan that is proving that family acceptance is the number one factor in how LGBT youth fare in life.

It’s great that so many more parents are more accepting. But sadly, as in the case of Briseida’s parents, most are still not.

we filmed in all different kinds of communities — urban, suburban, rural, private school etc. The issues seemed to be surprisingly similar

Here is a profile of a film about him. Just call me Kade

I s Briselda going on to college? She is sooo inspirational

N!gger has definitely in the process of being re-appropriated. Of course, some people are behind the curve.

Heck, I remember a day about 15 years ago when I was doing a little substitute high school teaching. A black youngster was unhappy that I had insisted that he not speak out of turn.

Frustrated, he explained, “Why are you being such a n1gger?”

I laughed. Heartily.

This, of course, confused the young man. He demanded to know, “Why are you laughing?”

My reply, “Wasn’t what you were saying supposed to be funny?”

Completely disarmed, he gave up.

Yes, words mean something, but they only get the best of you if you let them.

She is. She is now a junior and wants to be a teacher! She is super into Straightlaced. I will see her on Thursday at the Oakland, CA premiere of the film.

thanks raven.

Sure, I think it’s important for these kinds of stories to be told.

I think for kids who are trying to fit in and feel good about themselves, and who are strggling with sexuaity (oh the anguish of teen sex!) words can be very powerful and hurtful. I remember being told “everyine” thought I was on quaaludes all the time in highschool, and being really freaked out “like why? what did I do?”

“You know, basically it’s not HIS fault because she was really a he, and anyway she told him something he didn’t want to hear., and anyone would have reacted angrily…..”

Virtually anyone would react angrily to a deception like that. That person was very clearly playing with dynamite. Really, what sort of person plays games like that.

No, violence is not acceptable, but that doesn’t mean it’s not likely in a large number of circumstances. People have to use their heads.

Though actually I could have cared less that the fabulous clique thought I was a dyke–like whatever. BUt I still had buttons that could be pushed, as do most kids.

yes.

stories of transcending.

Not an excuse for beating her to death with a fire extinguisher.

We are winding down, now…Debra, thank you for joing us and of making Straightlaced. Info about the film and its premiers can be found at http://groundspark.org/2208

Firepups, thank you al for participating tonight! Next week we have MADE IN LA, a doc about immigrant garment workers in Los Angeles!

Lisa, it comes with the territory of being different. There’s a provocative aspect to deciding to inhabiting the world outside of the norm. Heck, it’s part of the appeal of exclusivity. If everyone accepts who you are, what you do and what you like, the result is that you become the very “normal” that you didn’t want to be part of.

People thought I was on drugs in high school…yet I never once tried drugs. That was fine. I was able to use that misconception to my advantage.

Well thanks for having me on. Gotta go now.

I certainly didn’t say it was an excuse. I will say that it’s a predictable outcome.

Thanks, Debra!

Thnaks Debra and everyne1se eyou next week!

The next day, while alone in the apartment, Andrade noticed several pictures that led him to question Zapata’s gender. 5)

It was when Zapata returned to the apartment that the confrontation and murder took place. So much for “the heat of passion” argument.

If that’s the same Kade I’ve met here in SF, he’s a swell young man.

there’s a good photo of him at raven’s 84 link.

I think it probably is, he’s in the Apple these days. I was just with his dad in Tucson last week. We took so much shit for being long hairs back in the day it was easy to be supportive of Kade. (did you click on the link, his pic is there). Of course, unlike his dad, I had a tendency to light people up if they hassled me!

Lacking a video on YouTube of the confrontation, we have no idea what transpired.

Certainly, that conservation could have added fuel to the fire, rather than flame retardant. This happens all the time with couples when cheating is involved.

yea, ok, if that’s the way you feel who am I to argue?

Thank you, Debra and Lisa, for a wonderful discussion tonight. Please come back and let us know when the DVD is available.

Lisa wrote:

… a place for outsiders feel at ease.

That’s what America is supposed to be, but we’re not quite there yet.

When I was young my family moved a bit and even today I feel out of place. Oddly I have now lived in one place the longest of any and now it’s (some of) my friends who come and go…far away. I think our corporate culture forces a lot of families to the winds and it’s not so easy to find that ‘place for outsiders’.

It’s even worse if you have real enemies. I’m reminded of the great chess player Bobby Fischer who complained and seemed paranoid, but then it was discovered late in his life that the FBI actually had been spying on his family all those years. His mother was suspected and it’s probably Bobby’s REAL father was a Hungarian-American who was working on ‘the bomb’. I can’t imagine how someone like him might have felt very awkward and different.

Everyone deserves a special place where they can grow up in safety of body and mind.

Right on. I went to an incredibly homophobic high school. Once a girl was labelled “rugmuncher” (yes they really did use that word. And it was always guys who used that word), it caught on like fire. And I lived in the “dyke dorm.” I can’t even count the number of times I was asked (sometimes earnestly) “how two girls did it together”. It was not a good experience for some kids. Sometimes it made some us so-called outed ones defiant and rebellious, other times it cut deep.

Seems there are a number of good documentaries now. I recently saw Jihad for Love and another movie narrated by Janean Garafola (sp?). The latter focused mostly on gayness in “developing countries,” mostly asia. I thought some of the comments made by the interviewees were right on. Especially those made by a gay/woman’s rights activist from the phillipines.