President Obama deserves huge applause for releasing the OLC torture memos, as do the people in the Administration who fought for it. It’s a brave move certain to bring down right wing howler monkeys crying about threats to national security, but a huge step toward restoring the rule of law in the United States.
While at the Office of Legal Counsel, Jay Bybee wrote the "insect memo" to authorize the torture on Abu Zubaydah, an Al Qada operative captured in Pakistan in 2002. His experience became George Bush’s prime example for the efficacy of and need for torture. From Bush’s 2006 speech:
We knew that Zubaydah had more information that could save innocent lives, but he stopped talking. As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that he had received training on how to resist interrogation. And so the CIA used an alternative set of procedures. These procedures were designed to be safe, to comply with our laws, our Constitution, and our treaty obligations. The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively and determined them to be lawful.
Bush claimed that Zubayah gave up three critical pieces of information that justified the use of "an alternative set of procedures":
- The alias of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ("Muktar"). But According to the 9/11 report, the CIA already knew this in August 2001.
- The fact that an operative (who was subsequently detained) was planning an attack on the US. In her book The Dark Side, Jane Mayer says this is a reference to Josee Padilla — but Zubayda told this to his interrogators prior to being tortured.
- Information that led to the capture of Ramzi bin al Shibh. But Ron Suskind claims that it was information from an al-Jazeera reporter that led to bin al Shibh’s capture, and as Mayer notes, the fact that he wasn’t captured for a year and a half after Zubayda lends credence to Suskind’s claim.
So, the notion that we got anything of value from Zubayda is dubious — but if we did, why did the CIA destroy the tapes of Zubaydah being tortured? Wouldn’t they want it around as proof?
Zubaydah had been shot three times at the time of his capture. And Suskind claims that he was also quite mentally ill. Nonetheless, here’s what Bybee found to be legal:
According to Glenn Greenwald, a "confinement box" is a coffin-like space. Bybee said that the interrogators could exploit Zubaydah’s fear of insects by telling him that a stinging insect was being placed inside the box, and then using a caterpillar. Or, they could simply put insects in the box without telling him anything about them. The memo describes in excruciating detail what Bybee found acceptable.
As Glenn notes, the memo "concludes that ‘the use of waterboarding constitutes a threat of imminent death,’ but is nonethless permissible and legal because it does not result in "prolonged mental harm."
These details match up very closely with what Zubaydah himself described about his treatment. Zubaydah says that he was told he was a "guinea pig," that these techniques had never been tried on anyone else before — that he was a torture "experiment."
Bybee cites no medical evidenc for determining whether these techniques were "safe" or not, nor — as Jane Mayer has documented — was there ever any research into the efficacy of torture as an effective means of questioning. Bybee had no reason to believe, as Bush asserted, that these techniques were designed to be "safe." And contrary to George Bush’s claims, the Red Cross has determined that the methods used against Zubaydah are "categorically" torture, which is illegal under both US and international law.
Jay Bybee’s job, since 2003, has been sitting on the 9th Circut Court of Appeals, deciding what is an isn’t constitutional. In the wake of the release of these documents, which Andrew Sullivan rightly calls an "unprofessional travesty of lawyering," he ought to resign.
We’re going to be calling for a Special Prosecutor tomorrow, so more on that later, but in the mean time — there is ample evidence that we need one. The administration officials who ordered torture, and the lawyers who made it legal, need to be investigated and held accountable. And that’s not going to happen without public pressure that gives Eric Holder the space to do it. You can sign the petition here.
Related posts:
- The July 2002 Torture Training Session
- Torture: How a Review Gets to Grand Jury in Five Days or Less
- Appeals Court Won’t Unseal Spitzer Wiretap Applications
- Defense counsel in USA v. KSM, et al petition federal appeals court to end Congress’s segregated, sham Military Commissions
- If It’s [Was] Friday, It Must Be State Secrets, Hiding Abuse of Power, in the 9th Circuit






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ep from downstairs’
that’s always the purpose since you cannot get more information through torture and every single professional knows this
a person being tortured will tell you whatever they think you want to hear
whcih is of course incorrect and it does not serve us at all to even acknowledge that this statement is nothing short of depraved
yet even if it were true, and it clearly is not, (there is STILL no reason to torture since you do not get more actionable information you get less
every person you torutre creates more terrorists, ten fold, every relative, every friend, every friend’s friend becomes a terrorist against your cause
even if you did happen to stop an event, (where you would have stoped frar more with other methods) through each person you torture you have created dozens if not hundredss and then thousands more events
and anyone who agreed with your cause before your policies of torture would with no doubt NOT inform you of events for fear of being tortured themselves
THE ONLY PURPOSE OF TORUTER IS TO PERPETUATE INSURGENCY,
that is the ONLY purpose and they knew it
asked downstairs but too late, has the environment yet grown ripe for the disbar of yoo?
There are many students at Berkeley who will not take his courses. They want nothing to do with him.
Howard Fineman was on KO just now and confirmed my longstanding opinion that Howard is deserving of the title of “Village Turd”.
Ripe to the point of rot.
What did Fineman say? “Shit happens”?
“asked downstairs but too late, has the environment yet grown ripe for the disbar **** of yoo?”
Fixed it for you.
Mod note: No suggestive violence please.
I’m OK with that designation, but you probably want to check with Karl Rove. He might have a problem with it.
Jane wrote:
Those monkeys are already howling (via Politico):
Sounds alot like Kit Bond or John Cornyn to me, though it’s hard to tell one howler monkey from another.
He was waving his hands as if to fan away a bad smell, little realizing that we all knew it came from him.
At least he is not dying his hair anymore. Prolly still taking the viagra.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and this will cause a few Faux “News” Performers to blow some major gaskets while we’re watching them on the TeeVee Box Machine. Beck and O’Reilly are already pretty close to the raggedy edge. Wouldn’t take much to push them over.
I think that there will be no prosecutions. Flimsy as Bybee’s argument is, it will convince a jury. The defence would need only repeat “severe”, “severe”, “severe”. These are things we all know to be torture, that we would find intolerable if they were done to us (to make someone sit in a way that they could not sleep, in a nappy because they weren’t permitted even to use the toilet for A WEEK!), but they can be spun as things that do not meet the definition of torture in the law that a prosecution would be made under. The judge will tell the jury that they should not depend on their revulsion at what was done, but should depend on the law.
Also, I can’t see Obama wanting anyone punished for doing things that I’m pretty sure he wishes to continue being done, because he has his own war on Muslims to win.
Because these guys can’t stand the truth; they’d rather keep it all covered. That’s the kind of lie at the root of evil.
Thanks for the form to submit.
There is no reason Congress can’t immediately start Impeachment proceeding against Judge Bybee. Like tomorrow! Prosecution can be sorted out later.
Nobody could have predicted, except George Orwell in 1984, though for Winston Smith it was rats rather than insects.
A question if I might, RevBev?
Do you think that the release of these memos and the ‘information’ they contain will be a topic of discussion in congregations across the land?
It would seem to me to be a ‘natural’ and necessary topic for some serious discussion among those who practice the Christian faith.
Remember the reports that the CIA was also given the go ahead initially to actually bury alive in those containment boxes, but that was supposedly walked back before the written opinions were issued.
What a very good question….Unless it is a very progressive congregation, I say no. Maybe some of the larger denominational offices may speak, but dubious. Look at the death penalty…very little local church discussion (but I am in TX); a few of the denominational spokespeople have written and taken a stand, such as the United Methodist.
I know onw of my most disappointing moment attending a local church was at a major juncture in the Clinton mess…not a word….for truth, compassion, for our country. Nothing about a major national story.
Can’t one of the bar associations do something about Bybee’s law license?
Forgive me while I comment on the picture: Isn’t he the choir boy? Debate team, etc?
Not to mention that I haven’t seen anyone with a pompadour since Elvis.
ok.. forget the weird bug thing. These people do realize that putting someone in a coffin like box is it self the very essence of torture don’t they?… small claustrophobic cells are supposed to be the most commonly used torture method in China. Amnesty Int’l and Human Rights Watch (and the UN) regularly decry the use of supermax 24/7 solitary detention in a steel box in the US for exactly the same reason. And from what I understand even those two types of torture cells are quite a bit larger what what Zubaydah and other shrubco desasparicidos got stuffed into.
It is amazing how shrubco actually managed to redefine torture in a way that made most of the methods previous tinpot dictatorships used to torture merely “enhanced interrogation.” He actually managed to devalue torture.
I thank you, RevBev, for answering that question, and I can only imagine the frustration you must sometimes feel, especially when one might reasonably hope that the spiritual sensibilities of those whom one would raise such issues with would welcome and appreciate the opportunity of discussing what is at the essence of Christianity, in its purest sense, at least as I understand it.
David
When rightists attempt to deflect criticism of their criminal behavior by promoting scholastic arguments about what is really torture and what is just harsh treatment, it’s important to recognize that what was actually done to the prisoners was almost certainly vastly worse than what was described in the memos. In fact, there is pretty good evidence that a number of captives died under duress.
The problem here is not in establishing that illegal and immoral actions took place. The problem is that a good proportion of the U.S. population, especially in the South, is perfectly OK with torture. Obama knows that a trial of Bybee or Gonzales, let alone a trial of Cheney or Bush, would result in insurrection or at least terrorism.
There are two bodies of research which Bybee should have incorporated into his papers. Medical and psychological clinical research on trauma would have shown him that long term pervasive mental health problems will result from traumas which originate in terror experiences, domination experiences, and humiliation experiences.
There is no excuse for his disregarding medical and psychological research, especially because he cites the presence of medical personnel and psychologists as proof of the “safety” of the victims. It was like reading about doctors at Auschwitz.
Oh noes!
This also means that in war we can’t shoot at people or drop bombs on them anymore, because they KNOW our tactics!
Whoever is responsible for the above statement is dumber than… words fail me.
I know from my work as an exterminator that there are some folks that have an intense irrational fear of insects. Even an insect as small as an ant can cause these folks sheer terror
IMHO using insects as an interrogation technique is just as cruel and sick as waterboarding
We have no place in this country for people that would condone this type of treatment
Remember the fake marine “saucy jack” letter that the wingnuts were spasming over back in 2001? Even the make believe war hero hated scorpions, compared them to being jolted with a cattle prod. The same sickos writing our legal opinions probably wrote that “letter.”
Thank you for the petition Jane. It helps.
actually, doctors at oswiecim were real doctors. the inmates had to be returned to serve at the buna synthetic rubber plant[ig farben]. don’t believe all the “fictions” created by the zionists concerning oswiecim or birkenau.
what i would like to know is where did bybee come from? i used to know a william bybee in houston, texas. he was as fierce a fascist bastid as i ever encountered. an accountant working for arthur anderson specializing in oil and gas and taxes. at arthur anderson he was responsible for bush family, liedtke family financial[tax] matters.
eventually, bill liedtke hired him as the tax manager for pennzoil.
you want to know more about this menage, the liedtke’s, like the bushies, were rockefeller courtiers. and the liedtke’s were nominal co-founders of zapata offshore, a cia proprietary.
Babyfaced Nelson.
It seems being dumb as a pet rock was a mandatory requirement for employment in the Bush/Cheney criminal cabal, and now has been elevated to being the top requirement for membership in the Repug party.
I’m pretty sure that Bush himself is “dumb” but unfortunately many of the hired help were not only smart, but pure evil. doG save us all…
Late to the dance, but here’s Bybee’s confirmation vote.
Thank you, Sen. Schumer.
Time for a rant.
Jay S. Bybee was and is a Mormon. During the time that he wrote this memo, I’m sure that Bybee was able to tell his bishop and stake president during his temple recommend interview, with a clean conscience, that he was honest in his dealings with his fellow man. All the time while writing this piece of mierda memo that authorized torture.
Says volumes about Bybee. He has no conscience. It also says volumes about how religion really doesn’t change things. If anything, it allows people to flush morality down the drain as they assuage themselves with their little pieces of paper (temple recommend) that they are truly among the holy and righteous.
Am I pissed off? You betcha.
Not to disagree with you…Im wondering about the paralles with segregation and how everyone would go crazy. But the worse implication, it seems, from what you note is so what about lawless? What does it mean to turn a blind eye? Just asking. Thanks
Jay “Bugsy” Bybee.
La Cucaracha.
In addition, the memos themselves refer repeatedly to the fact that Zubaydah had a battlefield injury and that they had to be careful not to reinjure that or they would “cross the line”. Yet ALL the methods they were going to use on him would have inhibited healing and increased the chance of infection. They all were designed to place him under intense stress.
Yet stress is widely known to reduce immune system response and to slow healing rates.
http://www.bio-medicine.org/me…..11;4115-1/
That the physicians and psychologists would have allowed this to continue is criminal. And that they can bald-facedly assert that they didn’t know about any of this actually harming him PHYSICALLY and PSYCHOLOGICALLY is as well.
Many comparisons are made with SERE. But in SERE the participants know it is training. In addition they are selected in advance to be individuals that perform well under stressful situations and continue to score high on cognitive tests when under pressure. They are never allowed to continue in the training if they show psychological collapse or become physically injured. The evidence was that Zubaydah, who was not a pre-selected SEAL, Green Beret, or Army Ranger candidate…was seriously injured and had pre-existant psychological issues. Those would have been exacerbated by the tortures they put him under.
To assert that the creme de la creme of our militaries were able to withstand some of these acts (while knowing it was a training exercise of limited duration) without “permanent psychological damage” ignores that Zubaydah was not an elite, was unwilling, did not know when the torture would end (if it ever would), was seriously injured, and was already mentally fragile.
Impeach
Bybee
Now
Many caterpillars are extremely toxic (to everyone), and some people have extreme allergic reactions to some that are innocuous to other people. When in Borneo I saw an individual react to a secretion of a relatively harmless caterpillar that other people could play with. That persons arm and hand grew out to where it appeared that his arm was about to explode. He was a thin guy of about 130 pounds but his arm looked like Rush Limbaughs! He started going into shock.We were able to find someone with an E-Pen and also used anti-histamines which worked.
Perhaps Zubaydah’s morbid fear was based on an allergic reaction, or experience with a toxic caterpillar as a child. Note that they mention he might have an allergy to the insect…but they don’t know for “certain” and so they are given a thumbs up. In other words…don’t bother to check. Claim ignorance on everything. “Plausible deniability” of the consequences seems to be what they are aiming for.
Signed the petition. Will forward the petition to a progressive political organization here which is heavily weighted with attorneys as well as my local Democratic clubs and county party.
JimHarrison (25) — the petition is the beginning to an answer; the actions taken under the authority of the last administration’s flexible legal guidance is morally repugnant, putting our entire nation at risk and sustaining global bad will against us because we have lost any pretension to moral authority. The investigation and any prosecution must be outside of the political machinations of Congress or even the White House, deserving a special prosecutor who will act independently to determine the full extent of any criminal behavior and report it to the public. In this manner the substantive minority of Americans who authoritarians by nature and are okay with abuse will have to deal not with the president’s opinion on torture or Congress’ opinion on torture, but that of a majority of the public who are still sane and understand the difference between right, wrong, moral, immoral, legal and criminal.
DrZen (13), your comment regarding Obama wishing to use these illegal methods requires more than your personal assertion; what evidence do you have to back that up? I just don’t see it; what I do see is a White House which still does not have an Attorney General, and is subject to veiled threats by dark players within the intelligence and other communities who do not wish the truth to come out. What I also see is that it was necessary to bargain the release of these documents — a promise not to prosecute those acting in good faith in exchange for the full documents. What exactly was the threat to the White House, or for that matter, to us, if that promise not to prosecute was not provided?
We need the truth, all of it; the truth will set us free. In the absence of any laws to provide an independent prosecutor, a special prosecutor is needed to find the truth and report it, and punish criminal acts as they are uncovered. Without this, we are little better than accessories, bearing witness without taking affirmative action to reveal the truth.
I would very much like to see the administration figures behind the mistreatment of prisoners tried and appropriately punished. Accomplishing that feat, however, is going to take some finesse if it happens at all. Ideally, a long legal process under the direction of an independent prosecutor might eventually make it hard for anybody to defend what Bush et. al. did while insulating Obama from some of the blowback. Maybe he can pull that of; but assuming he’s willing to let it happen or make it happen, he better be ready to duck more than nonstop flack from Fox. I just don’t think we should underestimate how tough this is going to be.
I have an answer to the Fox problem, and that’s to take possession of the frame rather than allow them to take it.
If they crank up the noise machine, we crank up the noise about the Fairness Doctrine. They’ll spend more time burning energy on the unfairness of the doctrine (even though it was successful and worked for years), sucking up time and oxygen they’d otherwise burn on the special prosecutor.
I’m sure you can think of other hot button issues like this one; we simply keep them on their heels so that the investigation and prosecution are not done in the court of Fox’s public opinion.
No prosecutions? It takes a special kind of person to order these things and to do these kinds of things.
The Bush Justice Department’s Office of Professional Responsibility (the Justice Departments internal affairs ethics watchdog) investigated and issued a scathing report on Jay Bybee, John Yoo, and Steven Bradbury.
Link:
A Torture Report Could Spell Big Trouble For Bush Lawyers
By Michael Isikoff | NEWSWEEK