Welcome Instapundit refugees! We realize you can’t comment over there, so feel free to do so here. Before making the mistake of thinking that Reynolds has said something that bears repeating, however, you might want to read up on what he dismisses as simply Fox’s "heavily-promoted coverage," like teabagging was the Olympics or something:
To quote Gregg Levine, "What Part of “FNC TAX DAY TEA PARTIES” Don’t You Understand?" But I guess we’re going to have to dive once more in to the obvious.
I’m going to also — and we’ll announce this later today — I’m going to do a fundraiser for them. I’m going to try to squeeze in a speech for lunch. So you can come and you can have lunch with me. And I think — I don’t know any of the details, but I’ve heard it’s like $500 a plate or something like that.
Reynolds says "if heavily-promoted coverage is the same as ‘financing’ then the MSM ‘financed’ Obama’s campaign." Did I miss those $500 a plate fundraisers that Keith Olbermann and Brian Williams were throwing for Obama and promoting on air? Somebody shoot me a link.
TaxDayTeaParty.com lists Fox News contributors Michelle Malkin and Tammy Bruce as "Tea Party Sponsors." The sponsors section also lists American Solutions for Winning the Future, whose general chairman is Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich. Gingrich filmed a video "invitation" to attend the April 15 protests.
And of course there’s Hannity:
Hannity has frequently promoted the April 15 protests by providing on-air information about the protests and encouraging viewers to "join us." Hannity has also encouraged viewers to "send us your ‘Tax Day Tea Party’ videos," which he said may be posted online or on-air.
"Join us," not "join them."
Why not? The Fox website is extremely helpful:
Fox News’ new website, The Fox Nation, has posted numerous links discussing and promoting the protests. One link, headlined, "Find a Tea Party!" links to results from Google Maps of "2009 Tea Parties." Another link, headlined, "Video: The Trillion Dollar Tea Party Video!" is an embedded YouTube video on Fox Nation’s website from the Tampa Bay Area Tea Party explaining why you should "join your local tea party.
As Media Matters has documented, Fox News and FBC have turned themselves into the all-teabag, all the time networks:
On April 9, one day after the release of Media Matters‘ report, Fox News’ Neil Cavuto and Beck discussed how "left-wing organizations like Media Matters" are "angry … at us for covering these protests." Jeez, why would anyone be angry that a "news" outlet is promoting, fundraising for, and taking part in political protests?
I’m fine with Fox both participating in and covering the teabagging, and I don’t think it means their coverage is automatically invalid because they’re involved. It would be like saying Netroots Nation couldn’t be covered by Kos, or that CPAC couldn’t be covered by Snake Handlers Weekly. What’s weird is Fox’s denial that they’re involved, which they clearly are, and even weirder is the bizarre way that the teabaggers themselves are desperate to distance themselves from Fox .
I can’t figure out if they genuinely need to believe that this is a "grass roots" movement that hasn’t been manipulated, packaged and paid for as part of a larger political agenda — or if they just think they do because Fox told them so.
If Reynolds wanted to claim that it was unfair to give all the credit to Fox when there was other big right wing money and organization floating the teabaggers, he’d actually have a point. But I think he’s trying to pretend this is some kind of spontaneous populist uprising that Fox needs to cover because it’s ratings gold, akin to a Presidential election in the final days that any respectable news outlet must devote 24/7 coverage to. Which is shamefully dishonest and cynically manipulative even for him.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled post. But when you get back to Reynolds’ place, ask him if he’s subsidized by any individual or organization associated with or financing the teabaggers, ‘kay?
Oh sorry, I forgot…you can’t.
Well, enjoy one of Blue Texan’s greatest hits 2006, wherein Glenn Reynolds explained to us all why the Democrats would lose.
_________________________
It was great to be at the bank demonstration today, and one of the best things was getting to meet a personal hero, Bill Grieder (who will be here on the Book Salon on May 10). Despite the fact that it was rainy and cold, people turned up for the citizen-organized demonstration in front of the White House, and I had a great time. Many thanks to David Swanson for organizing it. Jason Rosenbaum was there too.
After I was done speaking, a teabaggger asked me for an interview because I said the teabagger demonstrations were sponsored by Fox News and he wanted to know what proof I had. Since Bill was speaking not 10 feet away and I didn’t want to interrupt him by getting into a fight with some angry wingnut, I politely told the guy I’d talk to him afterwards.
He took off so I never got a chance to answer his question, and he’s now playing "gotcha" with his little wingnut buddies, because I guess my failure to provide proof on the spot is incontrovertible evidence that Fox had nothing to do with the teabag protests.
Yeah, wherever could I have come up with an idea like that:
While discussing the April 15 protests on his April 6 program, Glenn Beck suggested that viewers could "[c]elebrate with Fox News" by either attending a protest or watching it on Fox News.
Fox is evidently upset and thinks they are being unfairly associated with the "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties," and so teabaggers are fanning out to prove it’s all a lie. Or something.
If it somehow makes sense to you, lemme know.
Update: Moe Lane (who I often like) piles on with teh stupid. Likewise AllahPundit who likes to dance, dance dance at the end of those Fox News strings. Macsmind joins the party, because it’s no fun to be a sheep if you’re doing it alone. And John Stacy "War of Northern Aggression" McCain never minds looking like a simpleton for a good cause. (Funny, I just am not getting any trackbacks on any of these posts.)
Update II: People have tried to go over to Little Mr. Teabagger’s site and answer his question, but he doesn’t appear to be approving those comments. So sad to go to all that trouble to put that video together and be AWOL in your big moment. As for Instaputz — well, he doesn’t take comments now does he.
Update III: The Brave Little Teabagger is blocking comments at YouTube too that don’t bear witness to his glory.
Update IV: Fox gives instructions on how to have good teabaggin’ at demonstrations they have nothing to do with.
Update V: Comments finally liberated.





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Ah, nothing like ad hoc attacks when the facts don’t support the bigger arguments–looks like the wingnutosphere has itself a tempest in teabag.
Tea hee.
Um, this is really funny.
They don’t seem to like it when you point out that they never gave a shit about “fiscal responsibility” when George Bush was spending money and looting the Treasury, and that their “movement” is both morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Go figure.
Maybe we should send them some artificial sweetener taped on the back of a post card..
No, lady, you must answer my question about something you never said! And you must answer me now, because I am a mighty teabagger!
It’s just so amusing how badly the wingnut rank and file get their undies in a bunch when they’re accused of being mindless sheep following their masters. And to fight those charges they use the tactics and arguments that come from their masters.
Wing Nut Brew.
Lesson number one:
Tea Brewing
Don’t just toss a tea bag in your cup and hope for the best. A little bit of knowledge can ensure a superb cup of tea.
That’s the weird part, isn’t it?
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
“We are not authoritarian followers”
I’m kinda sad — Gregg wrote that great headline and it just doesn’t seem to be making its way to the top of Memeorandum. You’d think it would be quite in synch with the others, wouldn’t you?
http://www.memeorandum.com/090411/h2005
Thanks Jane. I’ve got questions myself about the tea parties.
I just went over to the blog from the moran who made the video and let him know Jane has put up the evidence he didn’t wait around to get.
Tea hee, indeed.
Question Authori-Tea.
Stop ridiculing them – there is nothing funny about Knoxville or Pittsburgh – and start to take them deadly seriously. Debunk and refute their every allegation. Show them Obama’s birth certificate, show them Holder’s statement on 2nd amendment rights …do whatever it takes so that we can get back to the real business of ignoring them.
If we laugh at gunowners, we are admitting that they have a point.
Jane: There is nothing funny here. Pay attention to Gandhi ::::
“First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.” -M.Gandhi
They know exactly what they are doing, and we are playing right into their hands.
Olbermann’s 3 rules of making FOX news/O’Reilly vipers slink away:
Hamsher’s 3 rules of patience and wit:
I’m not sure I understand how the synapses fire…they watch Fox News and see “FNC Tax Day Tea Parties,” and they hear that they’re supposed to show up on April 15, and then they hear Fox News anchors upset that Media Matters says Fox is promoting the tea parties, so then they run out and try to prove what Fox News tells them they should believe, which is the opposite of what Fox News has told them.
Is this making sense? Anyone?
Jane, thanks a lot. It looks like a very good first step.
Read more, comment less.
The teabagger who asked you the questions sounded eerily like Billo’s ambush boy. Maybe it was his twin brother? Definitely the same MO.
If I had to bet, I’d say that somebody put this guy up to this stunt. So who was the guy and who were/are his sponsors?
Got a link to the site?
Maybe we weren’t literal enough for them. . .
The blog post is here.
His website is here and on this page he brags about a piece that he got onto….Fox News!
Did you go to SF demonstration?
oh the irony!
Link to the picture is up at the blog post. We’ll see how long it stays up.
I’m a bit perplexed. Your comment isn’t showing up, this post isn’t showing up in the trackbacks — which appear to be “auto generated.”
I just cannot for the life of me understand how that could be. And here he was so bold and fearless when Grieder and his grandkids were there.
I posted a link to the Fox shot here:
http://frankstrategiesblog.com…..omment-141
Tea bags have tapped in to the lesser angels of America’s nature: fear and greed. Fiscal obfuscation and tax-cuts for the filthy rich aren’t going to help working Americans get through these tough times, but Fox & friends have found an easy gimmick that works like a tension-relieving “easy button”– which is to say, it makes a fun noise, but does absolutely nothing–and keeps the lid on any real push for systemic change.
They must be moderating over there. I don’t see your post. Do you see mine? I gave a link to this post by Jane.
OK, that’s really good.
I don’t see yours. Mine is here:
http://frankstrategiesblog.com…..omment-141
*G* … you’re having a lot of fun with this, aren’t you ?
{{{ Jane }}}
My comment went up, but I’m wondering for how long.
Maybe I shoulda sworn or something…
“…but does absolutely nothing–and keeps the lid on any real push for systemic change…”
And that is exactly why they’re pushing it. “Oh Boy! A shiny thing to play with!”
When the bread is lacking, give ‘em circuses…
Yep, mine gets that same URL ending in 141. We’re both in never-never land. The odds aren’t very good that our comments will get posted. At least someone over there will read them before they delete them. And dang, their version of WordPress even put my picture of me with my pitchfork next to the comment…
Of course you were trying to be polite. That’s clearly evident by your “deer in headlights” appearance.
Sometimes it’s just best to let things go, Jane.
“Frank Strategies LLC”? Whenever I see marketing slogans used for corporate entities – or military campaigns – my lying meter pegs out and I reach for my wallet to make sure it’s still there. Has this guy never figured out that “Fair and Balanced” is sarcasm, not an accurate description of Fox Noise’s news coverage?
Interviewing someone mid-rally is not a way to get a question answered. It’s a set-up to suggest one is doing journalism rather than looking for a video-bite.
Oh the tea-merity.
Didja scroll down to see how many comments are on past posts ? I think 3 comments that agree with their bent mindset is an all- time best for these turds.
Umm, he followed you home, Jane. He’s comment 12 on GreggLevine’s post ” Out with the old..”.
Can we keep him ?! Please? *g*
You’ll get no tea and sympathy for that one, my dear.
So did your question get answered to your satisfaction? Or did Fox not let you know what you think yet?
Oh good, some of them found this site … anyone seen freep ?
As long as you walk him and pick up his poop, I don’t see why not.
So you, Jim and I all have comments up. If my arithmetic is correct, that would make three. I’m seeing a note over there that says “3 comments so far”. I see mine and three others, none of which are yours. Sounds like we’re a little light. No telling how many other ones there are.
Maybe it’s that wingnut fuzzy math they’re using over there…
I’m in Milwaukee and for reasons I won’t go into, couldn’t make it to the one here.
So this chicken-shit MoFo shows comments to the poster, whether or not it goes public.
Nice and brave like.
Pot meet kettle.
This only serves to reinforce the notion that they are an offshoot of Pox Noise.
For the love of God, Jane, get some new talking points. The “Fox tells conservatives what to think” thing is so freaking tired. You should hold yourself to some higher standards.
It wasn’t my question, so I’m not really interested in your answer. I am, however, intrigued by your spinning the story to suggest you were trying to be polite. Sort of like Obama bowing to the Saudi king, it’s evident to anyone who watches the tape what the truth is.
And you guys must be able to do better than “teabagging.” Cmon. I thought all the funny, creative people were on the left.
I was gonna say — I don’t see it.
Heh. That’s really funny.
I’m glad we are laughing at them. I also think it is important to tie this to their real financial sponsors, both Fox and the “think tanks” that are providing the professional organizational skills.
Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works are the two tanks behind this.
So Fox, AforP and FW, what happens when one of your angry white men comes to the rally with a gun? Will you bear any responsibility for gathering a crowd of pissed off people in one place?
If the police would look at their own internal stats, it is the right wing people who brag about their guns. Fox News listeners.
What have been the political leanings of the people who have been shooting people lately? Are they listening to Maddow or O’Rielly?
Now, let’s think about financial liability here. Fox hosts might want to support this event for the ratings, but what happens when one of their teabaggers decides that he’s really pissed off and just goes into one of these locations and shows them how angry he is? Will Fox want the credit them? They are the deep pockets (along with the think tanks) behind this and if anyone is hurt or any property is damaged then you can bet who will be liable.
Of course the teabaggers could say, “I’m personally responsible for my actions and there is no one to sue”. That is what Fox will want them to do, but I want to tie FOX, and any RW Radio station helping with as well as the Paid Think Tank sponsors to this event. They want the credit they should get the blame. If there is blood, people will know where to get the green afterwards.
Now the Fox lawyers might decide to get smart and start putting out memos, ‘Remind Sean to tell people that this is a peaceful protest’ to cover their asses, but the host’s words over time need to be recorded.
When the gun man shot the people in the UUC church we know what he was thinking he wrote about it. We know what he read and who he listened to. Sean Hannity dodged the issue by saying something like, “I didn’t tell him to go to that church and shoot people. He acted on his own.”
In this case Sean Hannity IS telling angry people to gather and express their anger. Has Fox hosts come out clearly and say, “NO WEAPONS”
That phrase would make them look weak to their NRA supporters and then they would BRING weapons.
I think that the FOX lawyers should really tell Sean to say that. Will that happen? No. Because Sean believes that his people would never do anything crazy like bring a gun to a angry protest. Right.
Remind me which group has the greater love of guns?
I hope I’m wrong on this. I mean it’s not like there is any history of wingnuts shooting people or blowing up buildings or anything. And if I’m right? I know exactly what will happen. Nothing. The NRA is too powerful, but I would REALLY like to see a massive civil suit that would financially send a message to FOX that they are not to incite violence with their organized protesters, especially given the demographics of their listeners and their history of gun violence.
Medea Benjamin has told me that more than once her group and her personally have been confronted with people with guns at their events.
Will the police in the various states take this protest seriously? They certainly love to infiltrate DFH groups and we aren’t the ones with the guns.
From your comment, it’s obvious that all the smart people are on the left !
Thanks for playin’, though …
I understand you’re not interested in the question now — a few minutes ago it was the focus of an all-consuming demand for proof, but that seems to have fizzled. Why is that?
I’d be embarrassed about the Fox News sponsorship too, but they are — as they say themselves — “FNC Tax Day Tea Parties.”
What you call a “freaking tired talking point” also has the virtue in this case of being “the truth.”
This is what I see…
Resident wing-nut, checking in.
While I acknowledge the great subtlety and wit (reminiscent of Noel Coward) of referring to the Tea Parties as ”tea bagging parties,” I find I must register a protest.
I have not now, nor have I ever….OK whatever.
You’re probably the most interesting mootbat site around, so I’ll check in from time to time to see what Jane and the gang are up to.
But right now I have some 24 reruns I have to catch up with. No tea bagging, but some righteous torture in defense of the United States, which is almost as good.
Resident wing-nut, checking out.
Nope, not there.
Do they not allow links in comments at YouTube? Can’t seem to leave one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..r_embedded
Carry on, soldier.
Spoiler alert: Jack doesn’t die.
We eagerly await your next visit !
Double spoiler alert … Jack is not American !
Exactly what I am seeing – only it’s my comment and not yours.
Ol’ Frank wouldn’t be stacking the deck, would he?
Two words: The first is chicken. The second is not salad.
Thanks for checking in, Brian.
How late does 24 go to? Someone told me it was going to end at midnight and I got “series disorientation” when it didn’t.
Fixed.
Hey Jane! Great turn out in DC today. And the fellow with the bullhorn sure knew how to work the crowd into a frenzy. However next time, remind him to turn the bleedin’ thing on! And also, remind yourself to come prepared to be able to answer questions put to you the first time around.
I snuck a post in there…little tongue in teabag…er…cheek! Didn’t want to totally give it away by using the acronym for the M4M event.
Right on! Or what about the Millions for Marriage event upcoming!
Comment by Styve April 11, 2009 @ 8:06 pm
Where did you ever get the idea that Fox might be paying an inordinate amount of attention to the teabaggers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&eurl
I like the union handle.
Ah, smell that popcorn, Petro?
Got salt?
They are blocking comments at youtube, too.
I can write them, but, my gosh, they never appear.
I’m pretty sure it’s magic. These guys are good.
Maybe if FDL or Kos announce plans for their own TeaBagging ummm exercises, the outfit that really owns the trademark/copyright will file C&D orders.
Actually maybe it really is a good idea for Kos and FDL to have Teabag events.
Just thinking out loud here…
Leave it to Shooter’s minions to invent invisible digital ink.
Was Glenn Beck’s Bag Hag Malkin around anywhere today?
HEY!!! That’s classified!!!
So the narrative has shifted — “first time around.” Only minutes ago, I was silent with wrongness!
So you’re now trying to said I made the claim that Fox News sponsored the teabagging, but didn’t know why at the time, and only realized that I was right later?
I’m sure this makes sense somewhere.
Again, Jane, I didn’t ask the question. I think you can understand that, but I’ll say it again. Let’s stay focused, shall we?
You were all too eager to do the interview until you heard the question. Watch the tape. Slow it down, if you need to. Deer meet headlights.
Nappy hat, by the way.
Dr. Murphy is upstairs!
Senate Reheats Nuclear Pork; Expects Us to Eat It
Hey Fox Boy. However you think the chips might be falling, at least Jane has the courage to allow anyone to post here – which is a helluva lot more than can be said for your boy over there at Frank’s place. I don’t see her snuffing out your remarks before they see the light of day.
So who’s the bigger person?
“I’m sure this makes sense somewhere.”
I’m guessing in one of the wingnut parallel universes. Interesting place to visit, but you probably wouldn’t wanna live there…
Yes, once I heard the question and I realized the guy wanted to have a fight, I decided a man in his 70s and his four grandkids didn’t deserve that and wanted to avoid a confrontation at just that moment. I told him I’d talk with him later, but he’d scurried off by then. Was he afraid to stick around, or did he just have no interest in getting his question answered if it didn’t cause a scene?
Slow down the tape if you need to.
Maybe if you find him cowering under the local wingnut rock, let him know he’s free to answer here. Unlike his own heavily censored piece of terra firma.
They just took down my 3 posts…
Did this one, which is probably down by now…
http://tinyurl.com/d7cj7b
Comment by Bobsyeruncle April 11, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
“Let me eviscerate you after the speaker finishes” just doesn’t have the level of clarity they are looking for, Jane.
Actually maybe it really is a good idea for Kos and FDL to have Teabag events.
——————
We do… they’re called elections.
When it comes to the tea parties, one of the names to know is The Kochtopus. Just a couple days ago, Instapundit interviewed a tea party “facilitator” who works for a group that’s part of the Kochtopus. And, one of the most-watched pro-tea party videos was somewhat secretly from the GOP. See the posts at the link for the details.
But Teddy, you don’t understand. I didn’t have an answer! I was a “deer in the headlights” who made a statement I obviously couldn’t prove, and lucky me when I got home there were four articles at Media Matters about Fox’s involvement in the teabaggery (not to mention a big bitchin’ graphic) which I’d NEVER SEEN BEFORE that just happened to corroborate what I’d invented. And now I’m just covering.
Please come to terms with this irrefutable logic.
FWIW, comments have been freed over at Frank’s House
From the comments over @ Frank’s House. I love their “logic”:
Damn! And I blew that $2 Million for a ten second spot during the Super Bowl… Silly me
;~P
That is really funny.
Uncle Ear-Onthe-Concept
Patrick sez all the wingnut teevees must be like the Magic Fingers beds in the Notel Motel: you put in a quarter for 10 minutes of wingnut heaven.
Where does FNC go to get its good name back?
As someone who assisted in organizing the first Tea Party and the upcoming Tea Party in Denver and having spoken to countless other organizers I assure you FNC had nothing to do with organizing or funding these events.
I believe you all actually know that and it just makes you feel a bit better to say and hope that FNC has a hand in it.
No doubt their presence in the four locations will increase crowd size and will increase over all visibility but that is the extent of FNC and their influence on these events.
You can hope all that you want that FNC had something to do with the events but you are wrong.
TCOT, Smart Girl Politics, the Don’t Go Movement, Hear Us Now (in Denver), etc… are responsible as groups for the organizing of these events and even they in a very loose way. When it comes right down to it, a handful of individual persons in their respective towns are responsible for the organizing.
Like it or not, it is a very grassroots event and having learned the lesson from pros like those of you on the Left, we are going to beat you at your own game.
Where once we were mostly silent and did not get together, we are now. We are gathering, we are planning, we are gaining rapid momentum. Enjoy your moment in the sun with Obama and the other Fascists at the helm because unless they manage to completely implement their fascism in the four years alloted them, the gig will be up at the end of those four years.
Here is my problem. A screenshot of anchors covering an event does not constitute any proof of financial backing. I am going to a tea party in Amherst Ma. and was informed first by facebook. Only later did I find out about it on television. I would hope most people of all backgrounds would attend due to the fact that Trillions of our hard earned dollars are about to be blown by the government on god knows what. Even they have no idea what they keepvoting for seeing as none have even read these constant bills being forwarde by Pelosi and others to raid our treasury.
Jane and company,
I hope that you will read every word of this post with tolerance for opposing opinions, as I come for honest, open debate and not to sling mud or denigrate.
Let’s get this out of the way first: President Obama and, to some extent, the Democratic congress has enjoyed popular ratings. Yes, your “side” won this election fair and square, as it were.
However, while President Obama’s personal ratings remain high, his policies are losing favor with the American people by the day. Believe it or not, this is about policies for most of the Tax Day protesters, not about the President or his administration.
This is what you will see protested on Wednesday, coast to coast, by people just like me–taxpaying, everyday Americans who are educated, informed, and fed up. Say what you will about sour grapes, sore losers, misinformed (insert all the names liberals call conservatives here), but the truth is, we are the people who make politicians quake in their boots. Why? We are the people, Jane, just like you–but there are more in the middle than in the extremes on either side. We are the quiet Americans who make this country run. We are the Americans who pay taxes, feed our families, donate to charity, vote, read, become informed. We are the people more inclined to see the good in others than not.
When we get fed up enough to leave our jobs at lunchtime or leave our families at home after work to attend a protest–people who have never held a placard or a bullhorn in our lives–politicians take notice. Fox News has taken notice and decided to cover it. Members of Congress and the White House administration will take notice as well. They may remain silent, or bluster, or even sneer and smirk. But believe me, as much as you on the progressive left will try to pigeonhole and dismiss us, politicians know that we are the silent majority who, when awoken, will bring change in very short order.
Here is what I believe frightens the progressive left, and is behind the obscene, schoolyard taunts (including renaming the event to allude to a private act, then repeating that name over and over and over–see Rachel Maddow): there is much voter remorse out there. As an educated, professional person, I can tell you with certainty that many of my friends and coworkers who voted Democrat in this election are sorry they did so now. They feel duped by just how assertive and radical this agenda is. Yet it’s difficult to admit that you voted for the wrong candidate, especially so soon after the inauguration.
There is safety in numbers, though. These Democrat voters, many of whom voted for this party for the first time in their lives, will see on Wednesday that they are not alone in their distress. They’ll see that not everyone agrees with the extreme ease with which this Congress spends our money. They will see that it’s acceptable to resist policy without degrading people.
I come to your space with civil discourse, which is more than I was treated to on my own blog when I dared to respectfully state my opinion, and was called every name in the book and personally attacked. Let’s see if civil discourse can elevate the nature of comments on your blog on both sides. You seem like a lovely young lady, and I would never dare to come onto your own personal space and in any way attack or intimidate you, though I disagree with your viewpoint.
Fox News is Libertarian, Not! Conservative
This is hilarious. The Left is always trying to paint Fox News as “evil Conservatives.” Yet, a look at the Tea Parties, and one finds that if anything the network has become almost completely Libertarian.
Glenn Beck – Hardcore self-described “libertarian”
Michelle Malkin – longtime libertarian
Tammy Bruce – Hardcore libertarian
Even Bill O’Reilly, and Hannity have been calling themselves “libertarians” as of late.
When the Left attacks the Tea Parties, they are attacking an explicitly LIBERTARIAN event, NOT! Conservative. Conservatives are of course invited, and are participating. But the Libertarian Party was the originator of the April 15 Tax Protests and Tea Parties, decades ago. The current events are being Chaired by Eric Odom of the Sam Adams Alliance. The other sponsor is Americans for Properity. These are not Conservative groups, but rather completely LIBERTARIAN!
The more the Left attacks the Tea Parties and the Libertarian movement, the more you all push us in the direction of the Republican Party, and in a stronger alliance with Conservatives.
Gsue,
being “informed” and all, you did of course protest:
Bush/Cheney grew the size of the Govt by 45% their first two years in office.
the Republican controlled Congress spent trillions like drunken sailors
when GWB committed our military and this nation to invading a sovereign nation with specious, easy to dispel claims of 9/11 and WMD
when you learned they were listening to your phone calls, emails, and text messages
americans were being held by Executive Order without benefit of counsel or trial
right ??? of course you did.
and Gsue, may I politely inquire as to why I’ve never heard anything about the Bank Bailouts, their lack of transparency or accountability at your gatherings ?
These are not Conservative groups
correct. They are AstroTurf
cbl2 – i didn’t protest when clinton used the fear of terrorism to undermine our privacy rights. i didn’t protest the telecommunications consolidation, repeal of glass-steagall, the enron loophole, deregulation of otc derivatives, nafta, wto, and neoliberal economic foreign policy. i didn’t protest when the clinton administration lied us into an illegal war.
in fact, i didn’t pay much attention to politics at all, even though i’d voted for clinton.
it wasn’t until the bush years and the aftermath of 911 that i started paying attention.
does that mean i had no right to protest during the past 8 years?
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I did not agree with much of GWB’s decisions and actions, and I made that known. However, much of what you cite was in direct response to immediate threats to the very lives of Americans in response to 9/11. We currently have an administration who pledged to run the most transparent presidency in history, yet that has not proven to be the case. His administration and Congress passed a spending bill–the most expensive in the history of the US government–which included so many earmarks that the printed copy was inches thick. This from the president who pledged transparency and no earmarks; who spent this money in a time of “peace”. This was not wartime spending, but one could argue, “agenda” spending. Health care reform and environmental issues promise more “agenda” spending, at the peril of bankrupting the country.
You have a right to you opinion, of course, as I have a right to mine. We should agree on this: as Americans, we have the right to make those opinions known. Since dissent is patriotic, what bothers the progressives so much about the coming Tax Day gatherings? Why is it so bothersome that some in your group have to name-call, degrade and sneer?
The assertion that this movement is something like “astro-turfing” is not true. That some with agendas or beliefs may be dove-tailing into the grass roots movement is probably true. But that’s not how it started, and it certainly won’t maintain the momentum that will begin on Wednesday.
Again, thank you for your thoughtful response.
agendas are intentional–they are meant to govern and in governance must be, in the end, practical–the intention is that it works. I too am very unhappy with much of the obfuscation of the Obama administration–I too am unhappy that we are continuing many of the policies created by the Bush Administration and enforced by the Justice Department–I too am unhappy that Tim Geitner is Treasury Secretary, that Hank Paulson was, that Larry Summers gets to continue forcing a bad ideology that serves the very few among us.
But, I am consistently surprised and the general claims made in all these posts and all these events that simply align with oppositional ideology. Earmarks must be assessed as to their actual value. It’s my understanding that if monies are not allocated in a specific way that they simply go back into a general pot for the government to apply as “needed”–so an earmark at least tells you what money is being used for–in fact, it seems to me that an earmark is very transparent–it’s the sponsoring of earmarks that hadn’t been apparent in the past, but I believe that is no longer the case.
Taxes! Another rallying cry…this one always confuses me. Wealth people are affected by a slight change in tax policy because their wealth is large and small changes affect large numbers. So, this can at least make sense. But most of us are not wealthy and most of us complain in a “knee-jerk” way about taxes and governments. But I am thankful for Police; and roads; and schools; etc. Yes, governments waste money. Finding ways to stop the waste is a good idea; but the definition of WASTE is the real issue here because it becomes ideological. Your waste is my gain and vice versa. More focus should be placed on stopping graft–kick-backs, pay-offs, etc. But sadly this seems the real American way–the real truth behind most politics regardless of party.
Let’s get specific about specific grievances and be sure that when we argue ideology that we’re honest about it–and our motivations for the arguments.
A little note to the neocon nutcases above:
GEORGE BUSH ALLOWED THE FINANCIAL MADNESS YOU WITNESSED LAST YEAR. HE AND HIS NEOCONS CONTROLLED THE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE FOR 6 OF HIS 8 YEARS IN OFFICE. PRESIDENT OBAMA INCLUDED THE IRAQ WAR, THE AFGHAN WAR, AND THE TAX CUTS FOR THE UBER WEALTHY IN THE 2010 BUDGET, WHICH HAS INCREASED THE BUDGET BY TRILLIONS. AND WHAT DID GEORGE BUSH DO SINCE 9/11? HE REFUSED TO PUT THESE 3 THINGS IN THE BUDGET! YEP, HE WANTED TO DECEIVE YOU AND DID!
Your Tea Bagging Parties are hysterical to us, because we know what is going to happen: IT’S GOING TO BE A VIOLENT DAY, YOU’LL BE LABELED AS THE DOMESTIC TERRORISTS YOU TRULY ARE (and have always been!), AND WE’LL CONTINUE TO POINT OUT TO YOU THAT THE POLICIES YOU’RE PROTESTING AGAINST ARE GEORGE BUSH’S POLICIES!
So have fun on April 15th, but don’t be surprised when you see the nation once again TURNING IT’S BACK ON YOU FOR YOUR RIDICULOUSNESS! Thanks for playing!
What is a conservative and tell us what the republic party stands for?
This is a question we liberals have asked for 8 years and have never gotten an answer to. Thanks!
The wealthy love the idea of these Tax-Tea Parties because they’ve got the right wing neck drooling knuckle draggers to do their dirty work, which is: TO PAY LESS OR NO TAXES!
I bet 99.9% of the Tea Baggers will benefit from President Obama’s tax policies next year and here they are today under George Bush’s tax policy and are livid. The irony is hysterical!
uh, no
and then there’s the no small matter of $500 a Plate Fundraisers . . . yeah, that’s a spontaneous eruption of “the people’s anger”
mornin’ selise,
at no point did I claim the commenter didn’t have a right to protest. I simply asked where all that righteous outrage has been til now.
on a personal note, I didn’t know sh* until I heard Dennis Haliday explain how we’d killed 300,000 Iraqi’s through enforcement of the so called no-fly zones – a rather dramatic wake up call that unlocked so much
Power is likely the strongest motivator even more than money; though the two clearly are linked and money may begin as the ascendant driver/desire but it quickly becomes secondary once Power is attained. So, it’s easy to agree with you…the powerless rally behind “injustice” and cry out against what is often perceived as the the machinery of power: government and taxes). But what has become very clear (if it wasn’t already) is that these are simply straw men for the weak to oppose (and the Powerful encourage this as the opposition is immaterial and changes can be made that may appease factions of the opposition–shifting perceived injustices from one group to another).
Ironies only have meaning when perceived as such and once perceived they are no longer ironic. If you stand in agreement with the irony (yes, I am being helped by these tax reforms) yet still rage on, then this is not your motivation. Ironies are intellectual figurations and these are not intellectual issues.
But I would echo something from the posters who are not “of” FDL: it is the debasement of argument on both sides that continues to harm us. “Tea Baggers” as a term is a disservice to argument and demeans all of us.
Power fears truth–more so, it fears that the powerless agree on the what the truth is. There must be vast amounts of fear in Washington now as all the players are trying to shift the focus from one idea to another…constant confusion is their best weapon. We know that the rich get richer because only money makes money in our economy. And sadly, even that scheme seems an illusion–vast money controls other money. So, knowing the real problem–financial abuse colluded to on all sides of Power–will bring Power to answer to all of us…if we all charge the same crime; Right, Left, Conservative, Liberal–95% of us can call for an answer…why have you stolen from us. You must pay all of us for your crime. You have given us fraud that knows no equal. We cannot begin to claim that we are governed by our electors–as the elected do only the bidding of money and Power. In this way, we cannot claim Democracy. We are victims of money controlling us at the behest of Power.
The notion that those orthodox GOP, theocratic, water carriers are somehow “libertarians” is about as silly as it gets.
First, the word “libertarian” is a synonym for anarchist, in every place and time except the US, after the early 1970s.
The capital “L” Libertarians are just Republican drug-users or pundit trying to create some plausible deniabilty.
A big reason for the turnout in Pittsburgh has to do with a right-wing radio listener/ neo-nazi removing the heads from three Pittsburgh city cops with a rifle, in a standoff that began over taking a dog out to pee. Had they not been washed in the blood of the “martyrs” helped along by a local media obsessed with the story. These cop stories are getting on my nerves for screwing up my non-cable tv, like the olympics.
The notion of friendly media at a demonstration is unthinkable to one who has participated in many street actions. This is the first I’ve heard of sympathetic media, who usually ignore these things, unless the police get violent, and then the media dutifully blames the victim.
Video footage of the teabagging party:
i know you didn’t.
it’s just that, in late 2001/early 2002, when i went looking for people who like me were aghast at what we were doing in afghanistan the only people i found were the ones who had been against clinton’s lies and senseless killing as well as bush’s.
none of them asked me where i was during the ’90s. they just said “welcome.” even though i didn’t know any of the clinton era stuff at that time.
wish we could do some of that now.
too late to edit. just want to add that i know my comment made it seem that i though cbl2 was challenging the right to protest. i don’t think that, because i’ve probably read hundreds of cbl2’s comments and for her to have suggested such a thing would have been totally inconsistent.
this just made me want to ask how we reconcile being the “good guys” with constant killing? With the most gun violence? With the greatest ratio of prisoners? With torture? This is really what’s amazing…this idea that “we the people” are Good. We replace monarchical despotism (and killing and torture) with electoral despotism–which is likely worse as it implicates us all.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
It’s hard to take your concern for “schoolyard taunts” and “civil discourse” seriously when you turn around and refer to the “Democrat party” shortly thereafter.
But leave that aside — the problem I have with the Tea Parties is not their concern for what’s happening with government spending, which in the case of the bank bailouts and the defense and Homeland Security boondoggles I certainly share.
What’s disconcerting is the intellectual inconsistency, the failure to connect the dots in a meaningful way:
1. Despite your sincerity, to insist that this isn’t a well-funded political operation is ludicrous.
2. The movement’s leading lights had no problem with enormous government spending when they were in power, and they built an entire architecture to make sure the GOP got a cut in exchange for government contracts:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/art…..leId=10750
3. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that if they were in power again they wouldn’t do the exact same thing, which none of the “grassroots” supporters appears to have thought through in any meaningful way. It all seems to be about fomenting hatred of Barack Obama and ACORN — and then what?
Despite claims to the contrary, most of the people supporting this movement aren’t just conservatives, they’re extreme conservatives who applauded the war and never had any problem with how much it cost — or paying taxes to support it. The only time “bankruptcy” is of concern is when the money goes for social spending.
So basically, big buck conservatives are funding these events so they can channel people’s economic discontent and get back in power so they can do the stealing once again. And rather than develop a coherent, meaningful analysis of the power structure and how it works against your interests, you’re happy to simply have one set of crooks swapped out for another.
I don’t see how there’s an “endgame” to this action that brings about anything you say you support.
Yeah I think that was a misread.
Uh-huh. One would think that capital-L Libertarians would try to keep the term from being diluted by association with Malkin, whose commitment to personal liberty stops at her front door.
Wow, one can almost hear you and other commenters salivate at the thought of the government ripping wealth from others. You must be eager for the government to ‘generously’ redistribute that wealth to someone you really care about personally or have a lot of hatred for those with wealth to write with such obvious malice.
As far as calling these protests ‘teabagging’… um, wow. Just wow. I played that game with ‘Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer’, changing the words so they were dirty and funny and still made sense. It was a blast horrifying the old ladies with that gag, but then I turned nine and it got a little old.
So its strange that anyone (well, other then an 8-year-old) would call the tea parties ‘tea bagging’. Unless your target audience is an 8-year-old that is. It really doesn’t serve as an effective political message. I mean, WTF are you trying to say? American’s who rally and protest government BS are sexual positions? You’re never going to influence someone’s political beliefs with potty jokes. (And would you want to – even if you could? In my humble opinion, there’s no virtue in being Lord of Twiddledee, world of the Wonder Dummies)
Speaking of Wonder Dummies, back to the attitude around here on Obama’s budget strategy… Much like when I look back in history and read of people being killed in the name of religion, I’m repulsed when I observe the smugness and surety of your demands for our government to steal other people’s crap to promote your particular agenda. And I’m curious to know if that is a result of personally gaining from that theft or is it more of a penis envy thing against people with money?
Yes, taxing the uber wealthy at Bill Clinton’s rate would be terrific. Our nation flourished during those years, didn’t it? Why are you so upset about this? Let me guess…you’re one of those fake right wing rich bloggers who spend their day online enraged at those who don’t make much money and who are feeling the pinch each and every day? Wow, aren’t you nice. *rolling eyes*
Right now the taxes you’re rallying against are George Bush’s! Obama’s haven’t gone into effect yet. Did you know that?
The Tea Party goers are saying, “Let’s tea bag the White House!”, so yes, calling them ‘tea baggers’ is appropriate. Okay Dummy?
“You’re never going to influence someone’s political beliefs with potty jokes.”
Are you sure about that? I get death threats every week from the neocons and they tell me I need to shut my blog down all because of my dead on potty jokes. Now why would they do and say things like that? Oh wait! They know Kay’s humor pierces their hearts and it hurts!
See?