Reese, Welcome to the Lake.

Robert, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

Bev,

Thanks for the opportunity. And Reese, thanks for the opportunity to read Dateline Havana.

There’s much to discuss, but let’s start with this; much of this book is about the mischief that the Cuban exile community has made so far. How much trouble can they make in the future, looking forward to a period in which the Castro brothers are no longer at the helm?

It’s great to be here.

Reese

Reese is here and answering the first question.

Welcome to FDL this afternoon Reese and Robert.

I have not had an opportunity to read the book but I think we can see an example of the Right Wing Noise Machine as it relates to Cuba in the news reports on the members of the CBC meeting with Fidel and Raoul Castro.

As a technical note: There is a “Reply” button in the lower corner of each comment. By clicking on it, it pre-fills the comenter name and comment number that you are replying to (and makes it easier for all to follow along) :})

The hardline right wingers in Florida and New Jersey appear to be very strong. Their Senate/House representatives shout loudly. They tend to dominate the political discourse about Cuba in Maimi. But in fact they are very weak. 55% of Cubans in Florida oppose the US embargo. 66% of all Americans oppose it. So they are a dying trend.

Reese

I’d like to respond to several points made in the intro:

“I found it a touch too credulous in parts– it’s unsurprising that a dictatorship does not create strong incentives for speaking truth to power, and I’m not convinced that the Cuban government’s resistance to the spread of cell phones was wholly the result of a capacity problem…”

The government’s refusal to allow Cubans to own cell phones was rather clearly a capacity issue, not one of political repression. For many years, Cubans could make and receive international calls from land lines at home. (Calls to the US are very expensive, however, the result of the US refusing to pay Cuba for collect calls made from the island.) But Americans call relatives in Cuba all the time. There is no lack of telephone communication between the island and people abroad.
The Cuban government was worried that if it legalized cell phones for anyone, the increase in sales would overwhelm the still-new cell phone network. They’ve dealt with the problem by legalizing cell phones but keeping the cost of monthly service or prepaid phones very high for those earning pesos.
The Cuban people, ever creative, now use their cell phones like beepers. You call a friend and your number shows up on the screen but no one answers the call. Then you call your friend from a land line and keep the cell phone bill to an absolute minimum. It’s not a great solution, but it’s very Cuban.

The US policy is not helping anyone, left right or center. The US should have policies which seek to help the people of all nations… The embargo is a disaster.

Reese,

Given that they’re a dying brand, why do you think the Obama administration still seem a bit nervous about challenging them?

Hello, Reese and Robert!

As I type this, the latest news on Cuba is the release of a 2007 report written by Bush State Department officials that accuses the Castro régime of, among other things, poisoning the pets of US diplomats assigned to Cuba with the alleged “apparent goal” being “to instigate dissension within USINT ranks”.

Funnily enough, I would think that such treatment, far from instigating dissension, would put the US’ diplomatic/spy ranks into Circle The Wagons Mode. To me it sounds suspiciously like the bogus “they broke Elian’s bed!” and “they broke the bedroom doors!” stories from 2000.

I very much appreciate Robert’s intro. But I did want to respond to some disagreements:

“He cites reports that the United States engaged in biological warfare against Cuba on two separate occasions during the Cold War. These claims do not make up a substantial part of his argument, but nevertheless the evidence supporting them is exceedingly thin. Experts on biological warfare do not, by and large, accept these claims or list them in the history of the use of biological weapons.”

This is obviously a very controversial topic. The US government has never admitted using chemical/biological warfare against Cuba, and so I’m not surprised that “experts” in the US do not accept the claims. However, Cuban experts have long documented and written about this sordid history.

The book “Executive Acton: 634 Ways to Kill Fidel Castro” by Fabian Escalante details the numerous US attempts to murder Castro, including use of chemical and biological agents (which, by the way, was also confirmed by the Church Committee report cited in my book, although the Church committee discussed far fewer attempts.)

In his spoken biography “Fidel Castro My Life” by Castro and Ignacio Ramonet, Fidel Castro elaborates on how the US introduced swine fever and hemorrhagic fever into Cuba.

Jane Franklin writes about he numerous uses of chemical and biological warfare against Cuba in her book “Cuba and the US: A Chronological History (Ocean Press)

A pro-Cuba website in Britain lists many cases of biological warfare against Cuba.
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-…..y/Bio.html

I have Word copies of articles from Newsday and The Manitoban which are no longer online. People can email me and I’ll send them to you. (reeseerlich2@hotmail.com)

I’m not surprised at the lack of US media reporting on this topic, which after all, occurred during the height of the Cold War when Cuba was the evil, sworn enemy. I think Americans will be very surprised at their government’s actions in the 70s and 80s at such time as the CIA and other intelligence agency files are finally opened to the public.

Reese,

Right; my concern wasn’t so much the ability to call on and off the island, but rather the potential that cell phones have for coordinating political action in Cuba itself.

The Obama administration is still working off the old paradigm that the Cuba Lobby is powerful and can cause trouble. Perception of reality is more important than reality. I think grass roots pressure from ordinary folks, House and Senate members and the business community will help force change in White House actions.

Well, Cubans have been able to phone each other and text each other for some time. Even though cell phones couldn’t be owned by Cubans, foreigners could buy up to eight. Cubans frequently had foreigners buy the phone and then it was paid for by the Cuban. So far no mass demos organized by cell phone!

Reese,

I uploaded the files to my own account; here are the links:

http://www.uky.edu/~rmfarl2/cubabio1.htm

http://www.uky.edu/~rmfarl2/cubabio2.htm

I do have to say that I’m still unconvinced; the Newsday article depends on thin anonymous sourcing, and the Manatoban similarly doesn’t present strong evidence. Moreover, there are plenty of international experts on biological warfare who wouldn’t be afraid to denounce US use of such weapons, and I’ve never seen claims of the nature made here.

That said, probably best to allow people to see the evidence and make their own calls.

Seeing that few democratic nations actually have a democracy, this one in particular, in the end what gives the people the best lives and the most human rights matters. I don’t think Cuba is great on freedom, but they seem to meet the basic necessities. But the US policies hurt the Cuban people which is very troubling. Like our solution to the murderous Saddam we went in to stop the killing and it took a million Iraqi lives so far to accomplish that, so our embargo hurts the people we claim to care about.

One last comment about the intro:

“I suspect that American investment and tourism will dwarf the European and Canadian contributions in short order. I also suspect that this influx will have a significant economic and political impact on the Cuban state.”

In speaking around the country, I’ve met many progressives who have expressed similar concerns about the impact of lifting the embargo on the people of Cuba. The Cuban government, by controlling tourist visas, will be able to prevent spring break riots or sex tourism from becoming a problem. Similarly, the Cuban state still controls all foreign investment. Cuba will welcome oil exploration and new tourist facilities, but won’t allow Starbucks on every corner. I’m not worried about Cuba being swamped with American style materialism and consumerism.
Organic farmers in Cuba, however, are worried that massive imports of US products will unfairly compete with the locally raised, organic products. That’s already a problem because US frozen chickens are cheaper to buy in Cuba than locally produced, organic chicken. So Cuba will have to struggle with issues of domestic production vs. foreign imports as do countries all over the third world.
I, for one, look forward to the day when Cuba has to confront the problems arising from lifting the illegal and immoral US embargo.

Speaking of chickens and food: One thing that conservatives (and anti-organicists) like to say is that Cuba is on the verge of starving to death because organic food cannot supply the needs of the people. Would you feel comfortable in addressing that topic?

I think most in America, sadly could care less. It’s more likely that Americans are becoming isolationist because they have bleed in too many wars for no reason which makes sense and lots of lies again and again. You can see how gun shy most of the US is about Iran, or even Afghanistan now. The people want to deal with internal problems. We are constantly lied to about some international threat and these lies are not going very far, but it doesn’t stop them from trying.

It gets very tricky for Americans to start rating countries by their human rights records or levels of democracy. The US government working definition of democracy seems to be “hold elections once” and remain pro-US: bingo, you’re a democracy. So somehow Iraq and Afghanistan have become democracies despite no civil society and massive social instability.

Cuba is stable with a vast social security network unknown in most of the third world. It certainly isn’t a democracy, as I make clear in my book. But only the people of Cuba have the right to make change. US prescriptons for “democracy” are really disguised calls for a return of the old, pre-1959 system under US control.

That’s a good one. We are being killed by hormones in feed lots and chemical pesticides and people are not wanting more and more organically grown food – except for ADM and Monsanto. Would be great if those corporations were banned from commerce in Cuba post embargo.

That is my point. A sham of democracy is not a democracy. I am sure the very poor in the nation.. like those of the 9th Ward would have faired much better if they lived on the Cuban government during Katrina.

Reese,

Do you happen to have any idea how Cuban-Americans in Florida voted in the 2008 election, and whether that differed at all from their previous voting behavior?

Cuba certainly isn’t on the verge of starvation. I lived in Cuba last year and traveled around the island. Cubans eat mostly organic fruits and vegetables, and they don’t cost any more than “regular” products. (Hello, US organic farming industry!) The best estimate I got from Cuban agronomists is that 1/3 of farms are totally organic, 30% are organic with some small use of pesticides and about 1/3 use pesticides and chemical fertilizers.
Cuba doesn’t have enough affordable food for its population. It imports about $750 million/year in food from the US. The island needs to revamp its economic policies to give greater incentives to farmers. And the US needs to stop its embargo which makes it difficult for Cuba to trade with other countries, import necessary equipment and sell its products abroad.

Reese,

I don’t feel my views and interests are represented in this democracy. Do you?

In 2008 about 35% of Cubans in Florida voted for Obama; 65% for McCain. Obama got a higher percentage of Cuban votes than Kerry or Gore, but most Cubans still vote Republican. Obama is not beholden to the Cuba vote; he carried Florida without them. If we really believe in democracy, then the president should follow the will of the people who overwhelmingly want to see an end to the embargo and re-establishment of normal diplomatic relations.

The US should stop trying to force our form of government on other countries ,that is a matter for the people of other countries to decide for themselves.
US trade sanctions have done far more damage to Cuba than the communist leadership .
I don’t know if change in policy can happen , there are still a number of so called commie hunters in congress
Better dead than red you know !

But once these people get in office, they take the election to mean that the people have given them the right to do as THEY see fit not as the people want.

We would not have given trillions to banks nor gone to war in Iraq and WE would have universal single payer health coverage in this country. And that doesn’t even seem to be on the table does it?

Hello, Reese, and welcome. And thanks Robert for hosting.

You paint the problem of the hard right anti-Castro influence as being one that time might solve as these original expats die off. I wonder if some limited opening would allow an influx of younger hardliners with family ties in the US to come here and reinvigorate this fading demographic of intractable rightists.

I know that is not the opening that is now proposed, but it seems like a logical next step, so I worry about this possibility. Is my fear unfounded?

Reese,

Speaking of intervention, I liked your discussion of Cuban foreign policy during the Cold War, especially with regards to Angola. That said, I’ve read other arguments that suggest that the Cuban intervention there had more or less positive effects, especially with regards to Namibian independence and the end of apartheid. If you get a chance, would you be interested in expanding on your argument?

Based on my reporting in Miami, I don’t think you have a lot to worry about from new Cuban immigrants. Ever since the Mariel boatlif in 1980, Cuban immigrants have shown markedly different attitudes than those of the first wave (1959-63). The new immigrants still have family there and want to visit the island. Many of them grew up under Cuban socialism and apprecaited the free education, health care and cultural attractions. While many of them are anti-communist and/or critical of the government, they definitely don’t want the Miami old guard back in power.

If the US normalizes relations with Cuba then it should also eliminate the “wet foot/dry foot” policy that gives any Cuban arriving in the US automatic political refugee status and generous welfare benefits. If the US eliminates this magnet and Cubans are treated as any other immigrant group, we would see a very different situation in Florida.

My analysis of Cuban policies in Africa has proven to be the most controversial with the left. I argue that whatever its original intentions, keeping troops in Africa for 20 years hurt Cuba and didn’t have a decisive impact on the African liberation struggles either. The Cuban government supported the repressive dictatorship of Mariam in Ethiopia, which used the presence of Cuban troops in his country to free up soldiers to fight the Eritrean liberation forces. Namibia and South Africa achieved their independence/end of apartheid without the presence of Cuban troops. Remember Cuba supported both the Soviet occupation of Czecholslovakia in 1968 and of Afghanistan in 1979.

You might like this page..”Secret Cuban Documents on History of Africa Involvement”

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/N…..ndex2.html

Mr. Erhlich, sorry I am late to the show. Very good of you to visit FDL. Phoenix Woman pointed out to me the other day that there are limited things the President himself, or through the executive branch can do to cause substantive changes quickly in the policy toward Cuba. Quite frankly, I think she has a point there. Can you describe some of the modalities, and expected results, that President Obama could reasonably put in play if he were so inclined? What are the chances that he will actually do so?

Reese,

What is your take, if any, on recent revelations that John F. Kennedy was secretly reaching out in the last months of his life not only to Khruschev but also to Castro?

Reese, can you tell us about the role the U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC has played in Democratic politics in Florida– that and the role of Florida’s sugar lobby?

The Toricelli Act (1994) and especially the Helms Burton Act (1996) limit the options of any President. Lifting the embargo, and even negotiating with the current Cuban leadership cannot be done by the President unless Congress changes the law. The President does have a lot of leeway however:

Obama can immediately allow more Cuban musicians, academics and others to visit/work/perform in the US. Such visas were cut off by Bush.

Obama can immediately allow more Americans to legally travel to Cuba, something also cut off by Bush.

Obama can open up talks/discussions (not negotiations, of course) with Cuban leadership on issues such as drug interdiction, refugees, etc.
The Pentagon favors such talks because the Cubans have been helpful on those issues.

Obama can crack down hard on the terrorist right wingers in Florida who continue to stockpile arms and threaten to attack Cuba. The indictment of Louis Posada Carrilles for perjury yesterday is a step in the right direction.

Obama can give unequivocal support to House and Senate bills calling for lifting the embargo. Even some conservative Republicans (from farm states seeking to sell more food to Cuba) are more progressive on this issue than some in the Obama administration.

The US Cuba Democracy PAC is one of the neandrathal groups taking a hard line on Cuba. Financed by wealthy Cubans who directly benefit from the embargo on Cuba, the PAC spreads money around to freshmen House members and anyone else they can. Since Cuba is not a big issue in many parts of the country (if you don’t count popular opinion against the embargo) some congress people can get away with support the PAC’s positions.

Keep in mind that 47 years of embargo has created a mini industry of people sucking off the government teet to denounce Cuba. The US spends $37 million/year to pay for Radio and TV Marti, which have zero impact inside Cuba. (You can’t even see TV Marti). But there are a lot of Cuban American academics, journalists and talk show hosts who make a comfortable living from the government largess. Hmmmm. Wonder why they don’t denounce “big government” and “wasteful spending” ?

Yeah, I guess it is the last paragraph bit that sticks in my craw. I feel the same lack of motivation to take the lead when it goes against the perceived Washington status quo on the issues of illegal surveillance and torture. Two issues I might add, exactly like Cuban engagement, that I think he could get a lot of support and momentum on with the public as a whole if he simply made the effort..

I would be inerested in seeing any new documents. All my rearch, including declassified CIA documents, shows that both Jack and Bobby Kennedy were absolutely commited to taking down Castro and re-imposing US control over Cuba. My book cites examples of Bobby Kennedy discussing terrorist attacks on Cuba with the CIA and Pentagon.

My own research has shown that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a “liberal” House member and Democratic Party up-and-comer, is the conduit for the right-wing Cuban exile money. Have you come across this at all? I’m worried because the Democratic Establishment seems to be coalescing around the Senate candidacy of faithful Wsserman Schultz lapdog Kendrick Meek, another one taking thousands of dollars from the U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC while pretending to be quasi-progressive.

Reese,

Could you comment at all on the removal of Carlos Lage Davila from the Council of State?

Grass roots pressure on the Obama administration is more important than ever. That’s true on issues such as pulling ALL troops out of Iraq and stopping the war in Afghanistan as well as the Cuba issue.

I’ve been encouraged over the past several weeks by statements from Sen. Lugar (R-Indiana), the Congressional Black Cacucus and other congress people opposed to current US policy. We might just be seeing the beginning of significant change. Keep your eyes open at the upcoming Summit of the Americas (Ap 17-19) where US policy on Cuba will get roundly booed.

” Kennedy Sought Dialogue with Cuba

INITIATIVE WITH CASTRO ABORTED BY ASSASSINATION,
DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS SHOW

Oval Office Tape Reveals Strategy to hold clandestine Meeting in Havana; Documents record role of ABC News correspondent Lisa Howard as secret intermediary in Rapprochement effort “

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/N…../index.htm

The recent leadership changes in Cuba are a big question mark. Raul Castro originally said the government was streamlining the organization of the top leadership. Then two prominent leaders and a number of lesser knowns resigned. Then those two (Felipe Perez Roque and Carlos Lage) not only resigned from their leadership posts but from the Communist Party as well. Fidel Castro referred indirectly to them as leaders succombing to the “honey of power.”

Obviously, some kind of major dispute broke out. I don’t believe Raul was putting his people in power in opposition to Fidel as claimed by some analysts. (Fidel in his newspaper column supported the changes.) I could speculate that there were disagreements on economic reforms. But neither I, nor any of the poo-bah analysts in Miami really know.

That’s one of my criticisms of Cuba. Major changes in leadership take place, not through open debate and discussion (let alone through election or parliamentary action) but come from the top down.

Heh, well it should be booed. By the way, I think Howie is right about the political money being spread out in the Florida delegation.

Thanks for being here, Mr. Erlich and Mr. Farley.

I need to read the book, am painfully ignorant of Cuban info. But I did think that the controversy long ago about Elian was a sea change for America. Not in our softening our attitude about Cuba, necessarily, but in our break-thru of denial (some of us) at American exceptionalism …. and our “superior moral and economic” quality of life, mostly “moral”. USA was NOT the most appropriate place for him to live many thought. No knee-jerk jingoism. Could you speak to this.

Seems that both Cuban and Israeli lobby need more overt media attention in their pressure tactics.

Also, how Cuba deals with AIDs/HIV patients. Do you address that?

And how are Fidel and his brother different?

You’re right, the case of Elian Gonzalez was a major turning point for the Cuba Lobby. I discuss this in detail in the book. But basically, the right-wing Cuban establishment found itself so isolated after the Elian debacle that it split into warring factions.

HIV-AIDS
In the 1980s, when no one knew the cause or how AIDS was transmitted, Cuba adopted a very controversial policy of quarantining people who were HIV+. Later, HIV+ folks received special medical attention and were free to live outside the hospitals. Today Cuba has one of the lowest HIV infection rates in the world due to lots of public health education, free distribution of condoms and virtually no hard drug use on the island. The main source of infection today comes from tourists bringing it to the island.

See next post for my comments on Raul and Fidel.

I suppose it is too much to hope for some justice for the Cuban Five. Can the President have any effect on that or is it all in the courts?

Raul and Fidel are cut from the same revolutionary cloth. They fought together in the anti-Batista revolution and worked together for many years afterwards. Raul headed the army.

But Cuba faces very diffent problems today than in the past. I think Raul is somewhat more inclined towards economic reforms within the overall confines of his understanding of socialism. Both Raul and Fidel still see Soviet socialism, circa 1970s, as a pretty good model. Other Cubans are looking towards modern day Vietnam and China to see what econmoic reforms can be useful for Cuba.

When Fidel dies, and particularly after Raul dies (he’s 77), that will be the big eocnomic debate.

For those who don’t know, the Cuban 5 are five Cubans convicted in the US of conspiracy to commit espionage and failing to register as foreign agents. They admitted working for the Cuban government but say they came to the US to infiltrate ultra-right Cuban groups and prevent terrorist attacks on Cuba. They were convicted in a federal trial held in Miami and are serving long sentences. Their case is on appeal to the US Supreme Court.

I wouldn’t hold out much hope for justice from the court that brought us Bush vs. Gore. It may be possible that the US would trade the Cuban 5 for the release of some political prisoners in Cuba. That’s been offered by Raul Castro. We’ll see

Thank you, Reese. I had heard about the quarantining long ago but never the follow up.

Today Cuba has one of the lowest HIV infection rates in the world due to lots of public health education, free distribution of condoms and virtually no hard drug use on the island.

Look at Mexico with the drug war. Look at Africa with birth control/abortion issue. Credit where credit is due. Even Michael Moore gave Cuba kudos in SICKO!

Reese,

You mentioned Luis Posada Carriles a while ago; do you foresee any optimism that he’ll eventually serve time for his most serious crimes, in the US or elsewhere?

Won’t OUR economic neediness for trading accelerate the lifting of embargo with Cuba? Economic pragmatism enhances “tolerance”?

I have travelled extensively in the third world, somewhere over 100 countries by now. For all its very real problems, in Cuba you don’t see the grinding poverty of Brazilian favelas nor the hunger of the Congo. There are no epidemic diseases or drug wars. Indeed, there are virtually no hard drugs. Cubans are a highly educated people (and very friendly to Americans.)

Still, it’s no paradise. I visited the subsidized food stores where Cubans can buy staples very cheaply, except every day there are many items missing. So they have to buy in farmers markets where the prices are much higher. Medical care is free, but some days there is no x-ray film, another day they lack the right medications. The Cuban government correctly blames the US embargo for many of these problems. But I argue that economic mismanagement also accounts for many of the problems. The economic model Cuba uses today (Soviet Union circa 1970s) simply doesn’t work.

If Cuba had 50 million citizens instead of 11 million, the US embargo would have been lifted yeas ago. US business interests were ultimately decisive in lifting the US economic embargoes against China and Vietnam, despite very strong China and Vietnam lobbies. If other countries discover significant oil reserves off the coast of Cuba (and they plan to start drilling soon), US oil companies will fiercely demand a lifting of the embargo so they can make profits, too.

But while we’re getting closer, we haven’t reached the tipping point yet. The anti-emargo forces don’t feel strongly enough yet and the pro-embargo forces are fighting like Texas annexationists at the Alamo. But we all know what ultimately happened there. Stay tuned.

Very interesting. Those are not little victories by a long shot, but I hear what you are saying.

What is the story with Cuba and our Gitmo base? Historically and re future?

Re Elian, what is HIS story today? I presume you mention that in your book.

Thanks for enduring all my questions.

Reese,

I’m heading out; thanks again for coming, and for giving us the opportunity to discuss your book.

As we come to the end of this great Book Salon,

Reese, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us
discussing your new book, Cuban and US politics.

Robert, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you haven’t bought Reese’s book yet, here is a link.

Thanks all.

The Posada Carilles caase will prove to be a real test for the Obama Administration’s upholding the rule of law. This guy is an admitted terrorist! He gave an interview to the NY Times, which was tape recorded, admitting he planned hotel bombings in Havana that killed one and wounded several other people. His excuse now? His English is not so good.
(I’m pretty sure the interview was in Spanish)

So if you can’t convict this guy, who can you convict?

But as with all trials of this kind, it’s more politics than criminal procedure. Where do you conduct the trial? How hard does the prosecution fight? Do you grant bail or keep him locked up?

The Obama Justice Department has an opportunity to do the right thing, and it should pursue dozens of other Cuban American terrorists.

Thanks to all the folks at Fire Dog Lake.

See you all this coming Wed, Ap 15, 7-8pm EDT, for more discussion about Cuba.

Reese

Thanks, Reese. Dateline Havana sounds like a very worthy read!

Thank you for your book and for sharing your insights here. I was in Cuba in 1987 as the Soviets were pulling out, and while the shelves were bare, there was none of the poverty we see in Mexico and other places. Also no children with runny noses on their mother’s skirts with hands outreached. Cuba has much to recommend it.

Phoenix Woman upstairs with a new…
Franken-Coleman Update: A Ruling, But Not THE Ruling

” A center to assist more than 2,000 HIV/AIDS patients from six eastern Cuban provinces was inaugurated Friday at the Juan Bruno Zayas hospital in Santiago de Cuba.

The center has high-tech equipment for immunology and virology analysis, surgical treatment, and endoscopic procedures. It also provides health counseling for patients and their relatives. “

http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl…..167445.htm