Progress?

Thank you Kirk.

So? Will BO act?

called nancy pelosi’s office about the ICRC report this morning. Good times, if you like projection, denial, and shouting.

omg. how can he not act?!

Thank you for your service. Seriously. Right now, I’m too angry to put 2 words together without expletives fogging my ‘puter.

Thank dog there’s a report. This is not some casual thing to set on a shelf and forget.

Pelosi and others who sought office are morally obligated to deal with this or resign.

Principle IV

The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him

Nuremberg Principles

I think everyone needs to look at this diary

“I just got a copy of the leaked Red Cross report about the treatment of 14 detainees, and I have to tell you, it’s pretty upsetting. My stomach is still queasy from the descriptions of the waterboarding, and suspending people from hooks, and forcing them to stand in their own filth. And this report reminded me of an article I read in the Washington Post back in 2007, which described a visit Ms. Pelosi made to Guantanamo back in 2002. I think she was accompanied by, oh who was it, Jane Harman, Porter Goss, Senator Rockefeller.

“And what’s troubling,” I continued, maintaining a pleasant and cheery tone of voice, “is that the Post article made clear that on this visit everyone, except for maybe one lone hold out, not only approved of what was going on, but actually told the CIA to ‘do it harder.’

“So what I’d like to know is, was Nancy Pelosi that lone hold out, or did she tell the CIA to do it harder?”

that’s a great question and we really need her to go on record whether she saw what was going on, if she was in the meeting the cia talks about and how she reacted

he’s not gonna do a damned thing. His opening was through evidence which might have been “found” by Leahy’s Committee, but the Wee-publicans didn’t like the idea of all that investigatin’ and stuff, so Leahy has backed down, AFAIK.

some guy in Turkey yesterday -

“An enduring commitment to the rule of law is the only way to achieve the security that comes from justice for all people”

.

“Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future.”

full text here

Borrowing from the movie “Jaws”:

We’re gonna need a bigger pitchfork.

I know an Air Force Colonel who is a brilliant doctor and is the nicest guy you may want to meet but he is without any doubt, one of the most brain washed right wingnuts I have ever met. I used to ask him how he could be so dismissive of facts and science when he, himself is an educated man and a scientist. To the best of my knowlege he isn’t religious at all and judging by some of the comments he has made, he is motivated almost solely my money. I have no use for superstition or bible thumpers but in a way, they are easier to forgive than someone whose rants are motivated by greed.

Part One. Article One.

Let it be done.

Enjoy.

I said this over at emptywheel’s place yesterday: Any physician involved in this should have their license(s) and board-certification(s) yanked.

This report may be newly released/leaked to the public, but the CIA has had it since the ICRC sent it to their General Counsel in February 2007.

The only shock when folks at the White House read the Post this morning was that the report is now out. They’ve known — or should have known — what was in it since January 20th, if not before then.

Even so, I’m waiting for Gibbs to do his best Captain Renault impression: “I’m shocked, shocked to find that torture has been going on . . .”

Thanks for this, Kirk. I agree with Frank that these “physicians” need to lose their licenses. Is it possible for outside parties to file grievances similarly to the efforts to disbar the attorneys who aided this process, or does a victim have to initiate the action?

Even though we all knew it, I think there is still shock value. I mean, imagine that you were being tortured like this, is there any relief knowing that your stump was being measured by a doctor and at the last possible moment that medical person finally said, ”He needs to sit now.” I have tried to picture it.

Medical depravity.

Thanks for this, Kirk. I agree with Frank that these “physicians” need to lose their licenses. Is it possible for outside parties to file grievances similarly to the efforts to disbar the attorneys who aided this process, or does a victim have to initiate the action?

Licensing occurs at the state government level and probably varies from state to state. Board Certification (for each specialty and subspecialty) works at the national level and is more or less independent of the government. Board Certification is what should be worked on first–the various Medical Boards aren’t going to want to be associated with this and are the most susceptible to public pressure.

Kirk!!! A week day morning post from the Doctor??? Boy we are privileged!! I caught that article last evening over at the Washington Post and boy does it sicken me to think that a Doctor who has sworn an oath to first do no HARM could partake in these obvious WARCRIMES!!

Don’t Doctors have ethics boards that review medical licenses? Can those licenses get pulled? Are the doctors open to lawsuits from their victims?
Can we flip these Doctors to testify against their higher ups?
Lots of Doctors like being Doctors, I’m open to them testifying if they squeal.
I want the government people they worked for they got paid they took orders from the WH.
Of course they would still be open to lawsuits. But if they don’t testify well America’s Prisons could still use more Doctors.

Granted nobody wants to be treated by a torture doctor even prisoners but there is a need for Doctors there TB, Aids etc.

The Washington Post continues to use the hands-off euphemism that such practices “amounted to torture” and then only in the opinion of third parties. A loyal apologist to the end, despite the sometimes good work of its legitimate reporters.

some of the things in that report were just depraved. There was something about medics “measuring the swelling” on someone being suspended for days from the ceiling by chains and forced to balance on one leg. Do you know how agonizingly painful this would be? And they were literally measuring the swelling, and hence the pain? Trying to gage the exact point at which gangrene would set in? These people are beyond twisted. Sadistic monsters.. not doctors.

Anyone here see 60 Minutes segment on one man’s torture at the hands of the Iranians?

Could have been a description of what the US has done.

Hey Pups start DIGG this Post!! We have to make as much noise as possible about these CRIMES. If we can get the public to really start seaming maybe the Obama Administration will stop procrastinating and really give us a transparent government and release ALL of the Legal Memos Written by Bush’s OLC!! And maybe just maybe all the dirt on BushCo & Friends!!!SO Digg this post and send shouts to all your friends!!
War Crime Tribunal is What the People of the United Stats must have to regain the respect of the rest of the World Community!!

Has he seen the stock market under Bush? Money is only a reason, Reasons change Desire remains the same, I’m sure he is looking for different reasons now.
Notice the Bushies and how they keep changing the reasons why we went to war. They wanted a Shock Doctrine they wanted the glory of a war.
Those who live by the sword or shock doctrine hopefully will after sowing the wind reap an anti shock doctrine FDR style!

he. I suppose these people would only consider it real torture if Rummy had brought back the rack and breaking on the wheel. Either that or they’re using the shrub definition: treatment leading to death, mutilation and organ failure (by which definition, much of what the Spanish inquisition did would still not have been considered torture).

I want their names released to the public and photos if there are any in Seattle I’ll put up fliers all over town describing what they did!

Folks, thanks for sharing your concerns and ideas – and thanks for the Diggs! I’d love to see this issue get a whole lot of attention, and every digg helps.

Totally agree the torture docs should be stripped of licensure as well as kicked out of their professional specialty societies.

Jacob Timmerman (?sp) and others who lived through Argentina’s torture regime spoke eloquently about how official torture taints whole societies: we are seeing that as Dr. Torture comes home from the Bushies’ wars. What will do with the torturers in our midst?

Can they still work as doctors without their license in Prison to help the Prisoners?

about a year ago, there was a Law & Order SVU episode of all things, about a fictitious doctor who worked as a torture doc in Iraq… they portrayed the criminal case as being dismissed, but the board pulled her license. Unfortunately, this has not yet happened in real life.

It wasn’t just doctors acting; it was psychologists and psychiatrists directing.
************
“The Global War on Terror, launched after 9-11, provided yet another opportunity to experiment with these behavioral science-based torture techniques. The establishment of a detention center at Guantánamo for those detained during the Afghanistan war and other battles in the “Global War on Terrorism” provided a particularly favorable environment. A total institution was created who inmates, the detainees, have, at least in the administration’s opinion, absolutely no rights and where all aspects of their daily life can be monitored and controlled. The administration’s legal doctrine emphasized that essentially anything short of direct murder was legally acceptable.

Various “behavioral scientists” from psychology and psychiatry were brought in to help the development of this total institution devoted to complete destruction of the personality. In 2005 it was revealed by the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) and the New York Times that mental health professionals were serving as consultants on Behavioral Science Consultation Teams, BSCT (colloquially referred to as “biscuit” teams) at Guantánamo, designed to advise interrogators. These teams consult in every aspect of interrogation. ”

http://www.informationclearing…..e14329.htm

It is heartbreaking to me that Obama enables – if not actively approves of – torture by his use of Holder and Panetta to block not only bringing to justice those who tortured, but even the investigation of complicity.

It seems that Pelosi’s on the same page (see Brendan Skwire’s Oxdown Diary post).

Still a registered Democrat, I’m feeling like a man without a Party.

And yet I read a few min. ago http://crooksandliars.com/susi…..lexibility that the rethugs are holding up important DoJ appointees because of their fear that further torture memos will be released. Extortion by the rethugs. And the Obama administration is caving in. Torture memos that were to be released, were not. Cause and effect? you betcha!!

” The Justice Department improperly withheld important psychiatric records of a government witness who was used in a “significant” number of Guantanamo cases, a federal judge has concluded.

“To hide relevant and exculpatory evidence from counsel and from the court under any circumstances, particularly here where there is no other means to discover this information and where the stakes are so very high . . . is fundamentally unjust, outrageous and will not be tolerated,” Sullivan said, according to a transcript of the hearing.

“I’m not going to continue to tolerate indefinite delay on the part of the United States government,” Sullivan said. “I mean this Guantanamo issue is a travesty . . . a horror story . . . and I’m not going to buy into an extended indefinite delay of this man’s stay at Guantanamo.”

“The sanction is going to be high,” he said. “I’ll tell you quite frankly if I have to start incarcerating people to get my point across I’m going to start at the top.”

Coincidently, Sullivan presided over the corruption trial of former Alaska Republican Sen. Ted Stevens and was similarly critical of the Justice Department’s handling of evidence in that case. Attorney General Eric Holder recently asked the judge to dismiss the indictment against Stevens after concluding prosecutors withheld important evidence from the defense in the case. “

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/65608.html

How could anybody assist/watch torture without doing anything to stop it, unless they got some kind of thrill out of it? I just don’t understand why Obama and our Congress didn’t act to prosecute the minute he took office. Surely they knew. If they can stand by and let this sit on the shelf, what else are they willing to pretend doesn’t exist? Oh, nevermind, the list is too long and getting longer everyday.

From the McClatchy story:

It’s unclear what information the witness, who wasn’t named, provided against Batarfi or the other detainees. The Justice Department decided last week to release Batarfi, signaling that it no longer had sufficient evidence that he was an enemy combatant although he was held for seven years. (emphasis mine)

What’d they do — lose it on the subway? Bulls**t — they never had evidence. Period.

Gibbs is busy right now.
************
” Moments after arriving in the Iraqi capital, where he touched down only hours after a deadly car bombing, Obama spoke of political progress.

“It’s important for us to use all of our influence to encourage the parties to resolve these issues in ways that are equitable. I think that my presence here can help do that,” the Associated Press quoted him as saying.

The presidential motorcade rolled past troops standing to attention as it travelled to a meeting with several hundred of the 139,000 US forces stationed in the country.

Robert Gibbs, a White House spokesman, told reporters on the plane that Obama had decided to make the trip to Iraq because it is close to Turkey, which he has just visited, and because he wanted to show his appreciation of US troops. “

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..iraq-visit

Yup..they don’t have, and never did have, evidence of terrorism against the majority of detainees. In one of the Guantanamo SOPs, it referenced that fact..ie..it didn’t matter if the detainees being flown to Guantanamo were guilty, or not. This judge isn’t buying what the government is selling. The government hid the fact that Batarfi is mentally ill and the judge is outraged. A few more judges like this and maybe there will be some charges? I liked that he said he will start at the top.
**************
” He also criticized the government for deciding at the last minute to drop the case against Batarfi, who’s been held at Guantanamo for seven years, and questioned its motives for doing so. He suggested that the government’s announced plans to seek a country that would take Batarfi were really just a scheme to continue to detain him without due process.

” “I’m not going to let this case drag on, or any of the other cases on my calendar, indefinitely while the government embarks on what it calls its diplomatic process, because I have seen in the past that that diplomatic process can indeed span months and years, and I have some serious concerns as to whether it’s yet and still another ploy . . . to continue with his deprivation of his fair day in court.”

Sullivan threatened to have government attorneys return to court in 14 days to report on the progress of freeing Batarfi “and every 14 days thereafter.” “

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/65608.html

OT..good news for the shoe thrower.
************
” An Iraqi reporter who was jailed for hurling his shoes at former U.S. President George W. Bush has had his sentence slashed to one year from three, the Iraqi Judiciary Council said on Tuesday. “

http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com…..abf6c.html

Good pick up. This case is very disturbing.

OK, I’m obviously biased, but the psych “diagnosis” here really is key.

Behaviorally, the diagnosis “antisocial personality disorder”
essentially describes those who – free of substance abuse or other
biological psych condition – repeatedly and remorselessly harm others.

Biologically, some studies founds folks with antisocial personality
disorder have a major problem: their physical capacity to experience
what most of know as “anxiety” is quite impaired. So, they have
trouble getting frightened about what frightens most of us. Oh, and
most if not all of the physiological responses that go into the shams
we call “lie detectors” measure changes in the physical variables the
studies suggest vary less in folks with antisocial p/d.

Who TF cares?

Well, people who really meet diagnostic criteria for antisocial p/d -
people commonly known as “sociopaths” – these folks have all the lying
skills required to carry off truly stupendous systematic deceptions
[item: global finance].

Of course, they seldom have a viable business plan to sustain the
deception. [item: global finance].

WRT veracity, this diagnosis is a fancy way of saying remorselessly deceitful.

Surprising as it may seem after this rant, I wish McClatchy had
emphasized what the diagnosis really means: con artist in the witness
stand.

” Francisco Lacerda, a professor of phonetics at Stockholm University, is one of two scientists threatened with legal action after the publication of a scientific article condemning the use of lie detectors. The Israeli company Nemesysco, which manufactures detectors, has written in a letter to the researchers’ publishers that the researchers may be sued for libel if they continue to write on this subject in the future. “

One year ago, Francisco Lacerda, a professor of linguistics at Stockholm University, and Anders Eriksson, professor of phonetics at the University of Gothenburg, published an article in the International Journal of Speech Language and the Law, a magazine for voice experts working for the police and security services. The article entitled “Charlatantry in forensic speech science” gave an overview of the last fifty years of research in the field of lie detectors. The article’s conclusion is that there is no scientific evidence to show that lie detectors actually work. ”

http://www.su.se/english/about…..gal_action

All detainees went through isolation for the first two weeks at Guantanamo. It could be extended to a month, or longer.
**************
” “The manual also indicates some prisoners were designated as off limits to visitors from the International Committee of the Red Cross, something the military has repeatedly denied.”

The Guantanmo SOP now provides official documentation that, at the time of the Rumsfeld memo and despite its warnings regarding the techniques’ potential illegality and physical and psychological dangers, isolation was routinely used by the Defense Department at Guantanamo on all new detainees. The Rumsfeld memo complements the SOP in that it documents the central role of “medical and psychological review,” and, thus, medical and psychological personnel in the administration of this technique.

Isolation is as damaging as other, more prominent, abusive interrogation techniques. The recent Physicians for Human Rights-Human Rights First report, Leave No Marks: Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and the Risk of Criminality, details the negative effects of isolation and sensory deprivation:

“People who are exposed to isolation for the first time develop a group of symptoms that include `bewilderment, anxiety, frustration, dejection, boredom, obsessive thoughts or ruminations, depression, and, in some cases, hallucination’….

Prolonged isolation has been demonstrated to result in increased stress, abnormal neuroendocrine function, changes in blood pressure and inflammatory stress responses….”

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Guan…..al_torture

The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him

Does it specify that the person in question relates only to governmental and military employees/members? Were those doctors in fact guided by that law?

When it says ‘provided a moral choice’ does that go further in saying that they had to believe that what they were doing was immoral? What does being provided a moral choice mean exactly?

Also, is it possible for them to construe that the prisoners were never truly tortured as they are of a belief system which does not fear such things and, instead, longs to be killed (martyred) and ’sent’ to meet Allah their maker? How can you torture someone who would kill themselves with a ’suicide vest’?

Whatever decision about torture they certainly violated the ‘First, do no harm’ rule and should lose their medical license.

Still a registered Democrat, I’m feeling like a man without a Party.

I wouldn’t give up hope just yet. We haven’t even completed the first act where the characters are all introduced.