Dugg right here — please join me!

As a non-practicing Catholic I think the Cardinal should STFU!

The hypocrisy of the leaders of the Catholic church does not surprise me any more.
It saddens me that church, founded upon the principals of Jesus Christ continues to address abortion as it’s only issue. Jesus Christ never mentioned abortion or birth control. He did mention hate, compassion doing unto others and judge not lest you be judged. He helped the poor and sick and the marginalized. He was against violence. He accepted women as his teachers.
I would hope that the church will change. But I am afraid that it will not.

My question is What are you afraid of?

Thank you for pointing this ridiculous inconsistency out.

I don’t criticize people’s religions, but I sure can criticize the “leadership.” If I were a Catholic, I would be very bitter over developments of especially the last 10 years or so.

I find it amusing that Italian facebook users are sending the throwback in chief, the pope, condoms.
http://www.americablog.com/200…..-with.html

I think that that should be (after you kiss the ring) “Your Eminence, would you *please* shut the fuck up?”

And Holy Communion is way over-rated anyway.

*starting preemptive penance now*

How about “stay the hell out of religious issues, hypocritical or not” Blue Texan?

Grip It and Rip It Blue Texan !!

hey firedogs -

you can use the Spotlight link just below Blue Texan’s fabulous post – I just did.

hellloo Houston Chronicle !

As a practicing Catholic AND Notre Dame alum AND progressive woman, I wholeheartedly agree with BT, and the arguments laid out here are exactly the arguments I have given when people ask me about my opinion of this situation. I’m tired of people who claim to be “pro-life” (a nomenclature that I think is totally bogus, btw) conveniently forget that if one were to truly be what they proclaim, they would also be fighting against the death penalty, for access to healthcare and education, for the eradication of disease and poverty, and for social justice in general terms. I Just. Don’t. Get it.

Who is the bigger villain in the catholic churches bible, women in favor of birth control or bankers. Rethug capitalist looters tools.

sounds like the cardinal has violated the church’s tax exemption

what do they owe ???

if the catholic church wants to be a political body, let them PAY TAXES like everyone else

who much does a cardinal make per year ???

I can’t tell, are his lips sewn shut? He looks like a zombie.

Tell Jeremiah Wright that…..

*starting preemptive penance now*

why ? when there are perfectly good Indulgences to be had :D

Agreed.

And it’s important for me to note that I wouldn’t be objecting quite so loudly to these denunciations if they were consistent.

Since when has the catholic church been consistent?

Also, shouldn’t you follow that same mantra? If the cardinal shouldn’t comment on politics, then maybe you shouldn’t comment on his religious views?

Oh come on now, what do you expect from a man wearing a dress, who publicly says he doen’t make love, leads a church that is bankrupt from paying restitution for its priests who fondle little boys, who believes that the pope who is against condoms for aids prevention is divinely inspired?

As a practicing Catholic AND Notre Dame Alum (’56) AND still in control of all relevant faculties AND a progressive old curmudgeon, please read what this most intelligent woman and teacher has to say:

“For many Americans, the common (though not universally shared) notion of previous centuries that life in the embryo should be distinguished from life in the more developed fetus seems in line with common sense. While well aware that biological life begins at conception, many argue that stem cell research, early abortion, or the use of abortifacient contraceptives like the IUD is ethically different from abortion in the second or third trimester of pregnancy. Others disagree and hold that the critical matter is the life existing from the instant it is biologically conceived. The divergent opinions about when “human” life commences found in western Christianity before the Reformation presage the even wider spectrum of views in our own pluralistic society. If it were certain that the soul was present in the new embryo, rendering it fully human in theological terms, Christian doctrine would have to maintain that every abortion is homicide. But it is important to realize that the tradition underpinning our faith does not support certainty any more than biology does.

When church orthodoxy treads into public policy, that’s not so good. I don’t see any indication that the church is being treaded upon by commenting on this.

God on the theory of the “inestimable worth of the human person from conception to natural death”…after He crushes the skulls of the sinful, you’ll be able to “wash your feet in your enemy’s blood; the tongues of your dogs will lap it up.”

Heh. Listening to Hitler’s Pope by John Cornwell. The author is a British R.C. He sez in the introduction that he was convinced that the stories about Pius XII and Hitler were exaggerated and that if he got access to all the church files on the subject, he could show that. So he got access, and found that all the stories were true and then some.

Because the RTLers and the Catholics have more desire to stop abortions than to ensure that after the person is born that he/she is taken care of. Executions on the other hand are good. Abortions bad. Executions good.

Ever been to a church during election season?

Nobody cared when Jeremiah Wright was all over GW’s policy, but all of a sudden because it’s against your views then it’s some horrible thing that’s happening?

I certainly think the catholic church is hypocritical, and have no problem saying it. I also have no problem with religious organizations publicly speaking about public policy because it impacts their belief systems. Consistent or not, it’s up to them to decide.

from your link:

There is a common misconception that indulgences forgive sins, however, they only relieve the punishment due because of the sins,….

I’m cool with that. Can I just write a check or something?

I still think that “indulgence insurance” is possibly an up and coming market. Hello – AIG?

Carbon offsets? hmmmm. Moral offsets maybe?

You’d think Catholics would be delighted to have the President speak at Notre Dame. Oh, wait, some are:

I am an alumnus of Notre Dame. I am adamantly pro-life, independent as a voter — and greatly pleased that Obama has agreed to speak at my alma mater. He joins six other sitting presidents going back to Dwight D. Eisenhower — including George W. Bush — who have addressed the university. Politically, I had disagreements with each of them. Yet I never supposed that by granting them the commencement podium the university was signaling its approval of their policies. Neither, now, should the bishops.

[snip]

Obama is not coming to Notre Dame to press a pro-choice agenda but to address issues that affect all American citizens, including Catholics. He will be speaking to students who, like other Americans, gave him a majority of their votes. He will receive an honorary degree because it is the custom, not as a blessing on any of his decisions.

American bishops should remember that it was only a few decades ago that a Catholic was considered unfit for the White House. Do they now believe that a sitting president is unfit to address a Catholic university? It’s time the bishops gave a clear and principled response.

They did that in 2004 when voters were threatened with excommunication for voting for pro- choice
candidates. Hint – John Kerry.

Nary a word from the lawbreakers lawmakers then …

There is no reason to pay the slightest bit of attention to what the Catholic church says.

It’s what it actually does that should concern us all.

For it is nothing more than the world’s largest, wealthiest, most powerful and most fully-lawyered pedophile cult.

And I say this as a ex-Catholic who is only too familiar with the church’s real ways.

Ah, wrong again … as part of the agreement of their tax exempt status, they are supposed to stay away from political theater. Just because they’ve broken this law many times before is no excuse for allowing them to continue to do so.

I know that’s what the law says, doesn’t mean I agree with it.

Nobody said peep about Jeremiah Wright’s sermons, he’s tax exempt too.

Hypocrite.

What makes you believe that I (or anyone) sanctions Jeremiah Wright polling from the pulpit, it that is indeed what happened?

“Indulgence Insurance” is what I get when I buy a Grandé Macchiato with Whipped Cream … *g*

It’s “your grace.” Stay the fuck out of partisan politics, your grace.

If you want to opine on issues, fine. Distinguish between those with whom you disagree, and the policies discussed.

LOL !!!

Oh, any fdl bloggers needing a fun top to write about. The Governator was spotted by TMZ out buying a Dodge Challenger SRT 8, a little hypcritical to his environmental views….

One Grandé Macchiato drizzled with Chocolate shavings coming your way, big guy !

What a nice thing it is to see a voice for rational debate. I by the way have no respect for his excellency or his views.

“…Daniel DiNardo of Houston/Galveston…”

Nuff said.

I second these opinions, too! This is a good one…

I had the misfortune to actually be in Houston last year when this guy was ‘elevated’ to Cardinal….what a joke..

Pure and simple, the conclusion you would have drawn if you had seen the coverage by the local news media and had more than 16 brain cells working at that point in time is that DiNardo is a HACK!

STFU is the best thing he can do at this point…He’s only making a further jerk out of himself…

We may not be too far from the day when the flock simply breaks free and writes their own lives. Impracticality is not unimportant.

It takes just a glance at the photo to see that the man with the hypnotic glare in his eyes is literally hawking snake oil.

What a freak show.

This non-practicing Catholic has a message for DiNardo:

I left the Church because of hypocritical assholes like you.

What would Jesus do, Cardinal? What do you think the carpenter’s son would do?

… as most European Catholics did …

Hey Rayne.
Time to roll out the “Bong Hits for Jesus” banner again. I want their heads exploding for once.

I’m not “commenting on his religious views” I’m commenting on his politics.

Who gives a shit what a Catholic Cardinal thinks about anything? Can’t these dumb fucks just slither back into the dark ages where their silly little superstitions belong. Stick to what you know Cardinal……mythology and covering up for child molesters in your ranks.

I, for one, hope the young graduates don’t find their happy day overwhelmed by idiots with no business at the University other than the opportunity to try to embarrass.

After all, commencement is really about those who are beginning their new lives armed with a college degree. And college graduates, as any entering the workforce in this tough economy, will have a hard enough time without the spectacle of protest and religious hypocrisy being visited on what should be their day.

Teddy, I never see you comment on left wing protesters at graduation, but all of a sudden because it’s an issue you disagree with then it’s of great concern to you?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24910460/

Now I’m going to have to Wiki.
I know bishops are “your Grace”. Pretty sure Cardinals are/were Eminences.
Just sayin’

Also sayin’ they should all just STFU if they can’t be consistent–or distinguish between forced-birth and truly pro-life.

Spit.

FunnyDiva

Well said, religion has no place in reality !

I could use one of those Jesus dedicated bong hits right about now, this guy gives me such a headache. I have developed such an aversion to organized religion over the last 10 years because of freaks like this guy who’ve forgotten the Beatitudes and are so quick to judge like a Pharisee.

“I have developed such an aversion to organized religion …” – Rayne

Disorganized religion didn’t work out so well either. *g*

“soaks all our lives”.

He’s all wet, all right.

“Okay, who pissed in the wine? I have a fwiend in Wome who’ll be vewy, vewy angwy…”

fyi -
apparently whole lotta crickets chirping in 05 when Dick Cheney gave commencement address at Catholic University of America – you know, K-Lo’s alma mater

Two, Four, Six, Eight, time to Transubstantiate…

Lets see if I got this right you’re telling me that the funny looking guy in the Dress holding the salad dressing thingy is objecting to O speaking at Notre Dame? Right.

I, for one, hope the young graduates don’t find their happy day overwhelmed by idiots with no business at the University other than the opportunity to try to embarrass.

One would think that by this point in medical history, someone would have come up with a cure for incurable optimism….

Di NARD o

The name says it all…

TBogg has landed at the top of the front page!
Nepotism Tonight!

I had all but forgotten that song by Tom Lehrer, thanks for the reminder.

hell, nevermnind

I take it from the photo that Church services now include urinalysis?

You’re welcome, Margot. I had a vision of DiNardo dancin’ the Vatican Rag with his choir boys.

The article is about silent faculty protests and excused faculty absences. Faculty certainly have business at graduation, and didn’t disrupt the event. At the very end, there’s mention of 20 anti-war protesters, likely not even noticed by anyone but the reporter, especially given the sea of Bush supporters at Furman’s event.

You continue to miss the point of BT’s post, which is: where were the objections from the Pedophile Protecters when pro-war, pro-death-penalty, pro-choice Republicans spoke at Catholic universities in America?

My dear departed GrandMa told me once, “Sometimes missing the point IS the point.”

Genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Thanks BT.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the ND football blog I hang out at. I’d say it’s running 80 – 20 in favor of Obama coming. These are red-meat Republicans.

While interesting, perhaps more relevant would be addressing the idea that disagreement with Church teaching renders a person unfit to speak at a university function.
Where is the moment when open discourse begins?

Confucious say “He who fart in church sit in own pew”

I am so sick of these berobed jerks stridently trying to embarrass every Catholic politician who doesn’t agree with them on this one issue. Enough already.

Obviously Bishop DiNardo wants the Catholic Church to pay taxes on their monies and property. Something I feel the rest of the religious community should have to do as well.

On another website, one of the responders said that the public relations department of the Catholic Church must be manned by two rhesus monkeys. I’ve got to agree, though I think even a rhesus monkey would have figured things out by now and tried a different approach. American Catholics are bored with one-issue politics and have totally turned off the hierarchy. No one is listening to their silly rationalizations any more. Soon there will be so few Catholics left following their lead that the Church will be totally irrelevant. I once thought that would be a calamity….now I just think it’s a sorry state of affairs.

Bashing the Catholic Church isn’t sufficient? You want to disparage the workplace suitability and reasoning skills of my brothers?

in response to macaquerman@73

I had posted some links at another diary by BT on the subject of Obama at ND. Here they are. First, from the publisher of the Catholic National Reporter, which is written in exceptionally harsh terms. Understandable, given that we seem to visit the same subject time and again.

Then there is Fr. Thomas J. Reese, who teaches law at Georgetown University, after having been removed from his post as editor of the Jesuit magazine “America” by the late JPII.

One of the few failed efforts of JPII to move the Church back to its pre-VaticanII troglodyte days came when the late Pope sought to impose the strictures of “ExCorde Ecclesiae” on Catholic universities in the United States. Notre Dame and Boston College, among others, stood tall in resisting this attempt to kill academic freedom in our Catholic Universities, even after the U.S. Bishops had approved its norms.

For a scholarly approach to the dismantling of ExCorde, Dean Moser’s essay is really a good read. The University of an Francisco, along with BC, is a Jesuit institution. Moser recalls the words of Ignatius of Loyola: “When dealing with the institutional church, it is important to proceed with a warm heart and a clear eye.”

She then proceeds to suggest that ExCorde would probably be fatal to Catholic universities, and because of this, would not be followed. Therefore, under canon law, when a law is “not received” by those affected by it, it becomes a dead letter. Indeed, Moser states, the non-application olr non-reception of the law under these circumstances may even be the work of the Spirit. Touche.

I hope this addresses your issues. By the way, I am not surprised that BooRadley has found an 80-20 split in support of ND’s invitation to Obama. When Bush was awarded his doctor of laws degree honoris causa, only about 60% of interested people objected, even when it was pointed out that the University of Texas School of Law denied to admit him. Damned Harvards had to pick him up. Go figure. At least there has been some improvement in the opening of minds at ND.

Thanks for the good read and generous reply.
I surely think that your faculties are and will remain well-ordered given the challenges attendant to integrating law, Church doctrine, and progressive curmudgeonry.
I look forward to next time.

Amen. As a Catholic, I too was aghast when Bush was handed the presidency in 2000 (and to some extent, 2004), largely on the basis of this alleged pro-life stance, which ONLY applied to pre-birth life. Not to Iraqis, who kept getting killed by the thousands, or American troops, who died in action by the thousands, or criminals on death row, or poor babies or poor people, who couldn’t get adequate health care. In addition to killing life not in the womb, that “pro-life” president has also killed our financial system and our international moral reputation.

One more thing. I recently read that 400,000 Catholics left the church last year. Educated Catholics are less inclined to follow blindly what people like Cardinal DiNardo say. If the trend continues, will there be a Catholic people for cardinals like him to lead?

Catholic cardinals don’t consider their followers to be people, but sheep. Catholic liturgy is full of “the shepherd and his flock” imagery. In the Latin Mass, the Agnus Dei describes Jesus himself as “the Lamb of God.”

Um, I think there’s going to be a breaking point where average catholics have decided church leadership is a little too right wing.

. . . .. humbug.