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	<title>Comments on: The Geithner Plan&#8217;s Unpleasant Consequences</title>
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		<title>By: Hillsfar</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865789</link>
		<dc:creator>Hillsfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865789</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, one thing I’ve been wanting to ask you throughout all of your insightful articles is, what is an ordinary person to do? We are powerless. I have written to both my senators and received many form letter responses. I have called the offices of Congressional representatives and those in our state legislature.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What can ordinary people do to protect themselves financially and physically? I mean, I’m worried about my job, the economy, my savings, my retirement savings, all of it. I know there’s nothing I can do electorally. What can I do personally? What are YOU doing? I think everyone here is wondering.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, one thing I’ve been wanting to ask you throughout all of your insightful articles is, what is an ordinary person to do? We are powerless. I have written to both my senators and received many form letter responses. I have called the offices of Congressional representatives and those in our state legislature.</p>
<p>What can ordinary people do to protect themselves financially and physically? I mean, I’m worried about my job, the economy, my savings, my retirement savings, all of it. I know there’s nothing I can do electorally. What can I do personally? What are YOU doing? I think everyone here is wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: goldstandard</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865541</link>
		<dc:creator>goldstandard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865541</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you want to understand Geithner’s plan and why it will fail&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;spend time reading this:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;”First note that the public sector as a whole (Treasury plus FDIC) is at risk for $78 out of a total investment of $84. The public sector has the same upside as the private sector (through its $6 worth of equity). However, the private sector gets this upside by putting only $6 at risk, against the public sector’s $84 at risk. Small wonder the stock markets loved this. If there were a stock market for taxpayer equity, it would have tanked by a commensurate amount.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2009/03/the-new-toxic-and-bad-legacy-&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/.....ad-legacy-&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
assets-programs-of-the-us-treasury-surreptiously-&lt;br /&gt;
squeezing-the-tax-payer-and-the-fed-until-the-ppips-squeek/&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The other important point in the essay is that the bulk of the funding is supposed to come from the FDIC, which has very little money right now. FDIC has a proposal in front of Congress allowing it to borrow $500 billion from Treasury. So in essence, what’s disguised as ”FDIC leverage” is really taxpayer funding. The biggest issue in the whole Geithner steal-from-taxpayers-give-to-banks plan is what will be the price paid for these toxic assets. Goldman Sachs put out a study last night showing most banks are still substantially marked way too high on their books (I didn’t need the GS study, I’ve looked at many balance sheets and concluded the banks are over marked by at least 50% on most assets). If true market prices are paid, the banks still have massive mark-downs and losses coming. If phoney prices are paid because it’s just the stupid taxpayer’s money, then this is wholesale theft by Geithner/Bernanke/Obama and Wall Street.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to understand Geithner’s plan and why it will fail</p>
<p>spend time reading this:</p>
<p>”First note that the public sector as a whole (Treasury plus FDIC) is at risk for $78 out of a total investment of $84. The public sector has the same upside as the private sector (through its $6 worth of equity). However, the private sector gets this upside by putting only $6 at risk, against the public sector’s $84 at risk. Small wonder the stock markets loved this. If there were a stock market for taxpayer equity, it would have tanked by a commensurate amount.”</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2009/03/the-new-toxic-and-bad-legacy-" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/&#8230;..ad-legacy-</a><br />
assets-programs-of-the-us-treasury-surreptiously-<br />
squeezing-the-tax-payer-and-the-fed-until-the-ppips-squeek/</p>
<p>The other important point in the essay is that the bulk of the funding is supposed to come from the FDIC, which has very little money right now. FDIC has a proposal in front of Congress allowing it to borrow $500 billion from Treasury. So in essence, what’s disguised as ”FDIC leverage” is really taxpayer funding. The biggest issue in the whole Geithner steal-from-taxpayers-give-to-banks plan is what will be the price paid for these toxic assets. Goldman Sachs put out a study last night showing most banks are still substantially marked way too high on their books (I didn’t need the GS study, I’ve looked at many balance sheets and concluded the banks are over marked by at least 50% on most assets). If true market prices are paid, the banks still have massive mark-downs and losses coming. If phoney prices are paid because it’s just the stupid taxpayer’s money, then this is wholesale theft by Geithner/Bernanke/Obama and Wall Street.</p>
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		<title>By: ronfeinman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865478</link>
		<dc:creator>ronfeinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865478</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No one  has yet clearly and straightforwardly explained the following:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.  The exact nature and extent of the credit blockage that banks are supposedly suffering from.   I understand that to the extent a bank’s capital is decreased, its loan capacity is decreased, but this reduction has not been quantified and according to the story being told, this  is not the basis of the “credit freeze, especially among banks.  Supposedly banks aren’t lending to each other because of fear of not being repaid because the borrowing banks may be insolvent and can’t repay their loans.   No examples of this are being given. What is the real extent of this?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2.  The plans also assume that buying the bad assets from some banks will cause credit to flow.   What is the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen?  What if, as most seem to acknowledge, businesses aren’t borrowing because they don’t see a current, profitable opportunity to use borrowed funds, i.e. if, like  the drop  in GDP, this is demand driven, not supply driven?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3.  What is the empirical support for not allowing the banks and larger  firms to enter a bankruptcy reorganization or insovency proceeding — and have the Govt give aid inside of those processes, where concessions can be mandated of  all parties?  I believe using these time tested vehicles will show how serious the govt is, not the opposite.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4.  Why not have the govt do directly what it wants to do, versus taking a two or multi-step approach?  E.g., it want to get banks to lend to each other directly, well guarantee a certain amount of overnight lending — don’t buy assets (step 1) so the banks will lend themselves (step 2).   This is a cover to help bail out the shareholders and management of the banks.   This is but one example of how, in these sorts of circumstances, an individual or individual firm’s best interests don’t match the best interests of the country as a whole.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;These are not questions that are too complicated to be answered — it’s just that no one seems to have demanded answers, rather we’ve just be accepting as valid the assertions of those demanding the bailout or dire consequences will prevail.  Note:  I’m not advocating not taking action — only that there be a clear and complete explanation of the basis for the action.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Using 1-3 above, and taking our time, would give us time to discover the real facts about the assets, let those who should bear the loss do so without unnecessary taxpayer expense, and send a message that the govt will be honest and transparent in what it does.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I know some of these actions may need to tempered sometimes to account for mass psychology, but the underlying  questions must be answered.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ron Feinman&lt;br /&gt;
Lynchburg, VA&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one  has yet clearly and straightforwardly explained the following:</p>
<p>1.  The exact nature and extent of the credit blockage that banks are supposedly suffering from.   I understand that to the extent a bank’s capital is decreased, its loan capacity is decreased, but this reduction has not been quantified and according to the story being told, this  is not the basis of the “credit freeze, especially among banks.  Supposedly banks aren’t lending to each other because of fear of not being repaid because the borrowing banks may be insolvent and can’t repay their loans.   No examples of this are being given. What is the real extent of this?  </p>
<p>2.  The plans also assume that buying the bad assets from some banks will cause credit to flow.   What is the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen?  What if, as most seem to acknowledge, businesses aren’t borrowing because they don’t see a current, profitable opportunity to use borrowed funds, i.e. if, like  the drop  in GDP, this is demand driven, not supply driven?</p>
<p>3.  What is the empirical support for not allowing the banks and larger  firms to enter a bankruptcy reorganization or insovency proceeding — and have the Govt give aid inside of those processes, where concessions can be mandated of  all parties?  I believe using these time tested vehicles will show how serious the govt is, not the opposite.</p>
<p>4.  Why not have the govt do directly what it wants to do, versus taking a two or multi-step approach?  E.g., it want to get banks to lend to each other directly, well guarantee a certain amount of overnight lending — don’t buy assets (step 1) so the banks will lend themselves (step 2).   This is a cover to help bail out the shareholders and management of the banks.   This is but one example of how, in these sorts of circumstances, an individual or individual firm’s best interests don’t match the best interests of the country as a whole.</p>
<p>These are not questions that are too complicated to be answered — it’s just that no one seems to have demanded answers, rather we’ve just be accepting as valid the assertions of those demanding the bailout or dire consequences will prevail.  Note:  I’m not advocating not taking action — only that there be a clear and complete explanation of the basis for the action.</p>
<p>Using 1-3 above, and taking our time, would give us time to discover the real facts about the assets, let those who should bear the loss do so without unnecessary taxpayer expense, and send a message that the govt will be honest and transparent in what it does.</p>
<p>I know some of these actions may need to tempered sometimes to account for mass psychology, but the underlying  questions must be answered.</p>
<p>Ron Feinman<br />
Lynchburg, VA</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865459</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865459</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good list.  I’ve covered most of that stuff in articles over the years, but never all in one piece.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good list.  I’ve covered most of that stuff in articles over the years, but never all in one piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865458</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865458</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They don’t need to raise the debt ceiling.  They’re doing this through agencies off the books, as it were.  The Fed can print as much money as it wants.  As for the FDIC, they can loan money because they have the ability to raise premiums as well.  Not sure if it’s constitutional, but I doubt anyone is going to challenge it (and it may well be, I sure don’t know enough law to say.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They don’t need to raise the debt ceiling.  They’re doing this through agencies off the books, as it were.  The Fed can print as much money as it wants.  As for the FDIC, they can loan money because they have the ability to raise premiums as well.  Not sure if it’s constitutional, but I doubt anyone is going to challenge it (and it may well be, I sure don’t know enough law to say.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865451</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865451</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Agreed with your point that the situations are not identical — which is why I don’t think Japanification is a stable solution set for the US. But it can work for a few years, anyway.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed with your point that the situations are not identical — which is why I don’t think Japanification is a stable solution set for the US. But it can work for a few years, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865448</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865448</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, AIG is still lynchpin.  What they should do is just nationalize the damn place or at least take a 50%+1 equity stake and put their own directors/CEO in charge.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, AIG is still lynchpin.  What they should do is just nationalize the damn place or at least take a 50%+1 equity stake and put their own directors/CEO in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865446</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865446</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some good points. Let’s just say that I find it hard to imagine that some of 12 trillion dollars is not going to show up in the real economy.  Could be wrong, because yes, most of it is being poured into a very deep hole, but there are some signs that money is already going to speculation in energy prices.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good points. Let’s just say that I find it hard to imagine that some of 12 trillion dollars is not going to show up in the real economy.  Could be wrong, because yes, most of it is being poured into a very deep hole, but there are some signs that money is already going to speculation in energy prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865441</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865441</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, getting paid back nominally is easy enough - run inflation, hold onto stuff long enough, and you’re good.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Profit in real terms, or even payback in real terms… less likely but not impossible.  But I wouldn’t bet on it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, getting paid back nominally is easy enough &#8211; run inflation, hold onto stuff long enough, and you’re good.</p>
<p>Profit in real terms, or even payback in real terms… less likely but not impossible.  But I wouldn’t bet on it.</p>
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		<title>By: PPDCUS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865439</link>
		<dc:creator>PPDCUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/25/the-geithner-plans-unpleasant-consequences/#comment-1865439</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Exactly so.  Did you catch the comment yesterday linking to the outstanding profile on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2009/marapr/features/born.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brooksley Born&lt;/a&gt;?  What a difference she would have made as Fed chair from the mid 1990’s.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly so.  Did you catch the comment yesterday linking to the outstanding profile on <a href="http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2009/marapr/features/born.html" rel="nofollow">Brooksley Born</a>?  What a difference she would have made as Fed chair from the mid 1990’s.</p>
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