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	<title>Comments on: What Geithner&#8217;s TALF Plan Teaches Us</title>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862877</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862877</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Icouldn’t resist offering this incredible tidbit from the Online Journal article:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here David Rockefeller admits media collusion with his one world plans: “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the light of publicity during those years.&lt;br /&gt;
But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; The supra-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” [!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rockefeller writes on page 405 of his memoirs: “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (Activists Go Face to Face With Evil As Rockefeller Confronted)______________________________&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“The Planned Collapse of America”,Peter Chamberlin,Online Journal&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Icouldn’t resist offering this incredible tidbit from the Online Journal article:</p>
<p>Here David Rockefeller admits media collusion with his one world plans: “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.</p>
<p>It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the light of publicity during those years.<br />
But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.</p>
<p> The supra-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” [!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]</p>
<p>Rockefeller writes on page 405 of his memoirs: “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure &#8211; one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (Activists Go Face to Face With Evil As Rockefeller Confronted)______________________________</p>
<p>“The Planned Collapse of America”,Peter Chamberlin,Online Journal</p>
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		<title>By: PPDCUS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862864</link>
		<dc:creator>PPDCUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862864</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Gitchee.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Found the link on google, so I’ll check it out: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2715.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.onlinejournal.com/a.....2715.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Original study link is at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skilluminati.com/research/entry/changing_images_of_man_in_pdf_format/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.skilluminati.com/re.....df_format/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my #124 response to Ian, I left out this supporting link.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/20847&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/20847&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Gitchee.  </p>
<p>Found the link on google, so I’ll check it out: <a href="http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2715.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.onlinejournal.com/a&#8230;..2715.shtml</a><br />
Original study link is at <a href="http://www.skilluminati.com/research/entry/changing_images_of_man_in_pdf_format/" rel="nofollow">http://www.skilluminati.com/re&#8230;..df_format/</a></p>
<p>In my #124 response to Ian, I left out this supporting link.<br /><a href="http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/20847" rel="nofollow">http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/20847</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862795</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862795</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Analysis&lt;br /&gt;
The planned collapse of America&lt;br /&gt;
By Peter Chamberlin_____________________________[Hope this is a linky]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Analysis<br />
The planned collapse of America<br />
By Peter Chamberlin_____________________________[Hope this is a linky]</p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862791</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862791</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, Paddy Chayefsky was truly a genius and visionary. About six months ago,I ordered my personal copy of Network-amazed to learn that it was originally meant to be a satire(!).Funny,we’re not laughing now,are we?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For a work of non fiction,from the same era-the 70’s -is a far more sobering projection of the blueprint for American society.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is called :&lt;br /&gt;
“Changing Images of Man”,commissioned by the government and done by Stanford Research Institute.It is available on the net in PDF form;but, Online Journal has a really good piece about it entitled”The Planned Collapse of America”,by Peter Chamberlain.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There was a plan,a blueprint for whats coming down now-definitely worth a look,for sure.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Paddy Chayefsky was truly a genius and visionary. About six months ago,I ordered my personal copy of Network-amazed to learn that it was originally meant to be a satire(!).Funny,we’re not laughing now,are we?</p>
<p>For a work of non fiction,from the same era-the 70’s -is a far more sobering projection of the blueprint for American society.</p>
<p>It is called :<br />
“Changing Images of Man”,commissioned by the government and done by Stanford Research Institute.It is available on the net in PDF form;but, Online Journal has a really good piece about it entitled”The Planned Collapse of America”,by Peter Chamberlain.</p>
<p>There was a plan,a blueprint for whats coming down now-definitely worth a look,for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: jussumbody</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862760</link>
		<dc:creator>jussumbody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862760</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“The underlying assumption, as Krugman noted today, is that nothing is fundamentally wrong with the economy (something I’ve said myself, in the past).” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What did you say in the past?  That nothing is wrong with the economy?  Oooh kaaay, then.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is it too early to start looking for a challenger to Obama in ‘12?  Dare I say it, a challenge from the left?  I’m sure Hillary would have been much smarter and more decisive that Obama has been to this point.  OTOH, can’t we do better than Hillary?  I mean, I love her, but the men she relies on…are nearly the same as the ones Obama does - she’s just not as wet behind the ears.  And what’s going to be left of the economy by ‘12?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My Obamabot friend has gotten over some initial “dissappointments” and is now flying high on O’s recent inspiring speech on the Persian new year, and his bland reassurances on the economy.  “Inspiration” is the opiate of the masses who have no access the real stuff.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The underlying assumption, as Krugman noted today, is that nothing is fundamentally wrong with the economy (something I’ve said myself, in the past).” </p>
<p>What did you say in the past?  That nothing is wrong with the economy?  Oooh kaaay, then.</p>
<p>Is it too early to start looking for a challenger to Obama in ‘12?  Dare I say it, a challenge from the left?  I’m sure Hillary would have been much smarter and more decisive that Obama has been to this point.  OTOH, can’t we do better than Hillary?  I mean, I love her, but the men she relies on…are nearly the same as the ones Obama does &#8211; she’s just not as wet behind the ears.  And what’s going to be left of the economy by ‘12?</p>
<p>My Obamabot friend has gotten over some initial “dissappointments” and is now flying high on O’s recent inspiring speech on the Persian new year, and his bland reassurances on the economy.  “Inspiration” is the opiate of the masses who have no access the real stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: wigwam</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862737</link>
		<dc:creator>wigwam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862737</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For a sports nut, Obama’s quite lacking in the clue bat department.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just find it astounding that he’s apparently so isolated that he listens to Geithner, Summers et al. and their “version” of both the problem(s) and solution(s). No one else appears to make it into the room/onto his reading list.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ive heard that Summers deliberately kept out the economically clueful, e.g., Krugman, Stiglitz, Roubini, Taleb, Galbraith, Baker, …  Summers is the son of Paul Samuelson’s brother and Kenneth Arrow’s sister (i.e., both uncles are Nobel-leaurate economists), which might account for something.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>For a sports nut, Obama’s quite lacking in the clue bat department.</p>
<p>I just find it astounding that he’s apparently so isolated that he listens to Geithner, Summers et al. and their “version” of both the problem(s) and solution(s). No one else appears to make it into the room/onto his reading list.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ive heard that Summers deliberately kept out the economically clueful, e.g., Krugman, Stiglitz, Roubini, Taleb, Galbraith, Baker, …  Summers is the son of Paul Samuelson’s brother and Kenneth Arrow’s sister (i.e., both uncles are Nobel-leaurate economists), which might account for something.</p>
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		<title>By: PPDCUS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862706</link>
		<dc:creator>PPDCUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862706</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As you’ve noted many times, Ian, narrative creates context, which in turn confers credibility and relevance.  Rubin’s acolytes have been designated as successors to the Chicago School within the Villagers’ narrative.  Preserving the established lines of power and influence is their sole reason for being.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Blogs challenge these narratives and threaten this structure.  In the current crisis, the chance for a new system to emerge from the profoundly broken one is a fight between powerful, competing interests.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama’s economic &amp; treasury officials give me no confidence that he will seize the phoenix because he sees neither the ashes extending in all directions nor the arsonists who burned down the forest and keep returning to the scene of the crime to pour more gasoline on the embers.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;His concept governing for the public good is being tested for its depth and durability.  Superficial rhetoric &amp; careful PR coded to reassure Wall Street, or a commitment to real change?  So far, I’ve seen the former, not the latter.  We have less than one year before the 2010 election blood sports begin amidst a $3 billion a day deficit. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is a small window with so much at stake.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you’ve noted many times, Ian, narrative creates context, which in turn confers credibility and relevance.  Rubin’s acolytes have been designated as successors to the Chicago School within the Villagers’ narrative.  Preserving the established lines of power and influence is their sole reason for being.</p>
<p>Blogs challenge these narratives and threaten this structure.  In the current crisis, the chance for a new system to emerge from the profoundly broken one is a fight between powerful, competing interests.  </p>
<p>Obama’s economic &amp; treasury officials give me no confidence that he will seize the phoenix because he sees neither the ashes extending in all directions nor the arsonists who burned down the forest and keep returning to the scene of the crime to pour more gasoline on the embers.  </p>
<p>His concept governing for the public good is being tested for its depth and durability.  Superficial rhetoric &amp; careful PR coded to reassure Wall Street, or a commitment to real change?  So far, I’ve seen the former, not the latter.  We have less than one year before the 2010 election blood sports begin amidst a $3 billion a day deficit. </p>
<p>It is a small window with so much at stake.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862704</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862704</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Equities I expect to still have a bit to fall (but as with anything, take with a grain of salt.  I am /not/ good with markets.)  Bonds… I’m unsure.  At this point we’re in a twilight land of paper money, and I’m honestly still strugling with how that will play out.  I currently think that we’re look at riptide inflation, but the bet is whether or not the Obama administration can reboot the “paper for money” game in which they sell paper to the rest of the world and in exchange the rest of the world sells the US the goods and resources it needs.  It sounds absurd, but they might.  After all, pushers need drug addicts, and where are the oilarchies going to put their money?  Who is China going to sell all its crap to?  Europe is probably even in worse shape than the US.  They had their chance back in 04 to take the US down clean and replace it, they wimped.  Now they’re paying the price.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So… the question then is how you think this paper money economy is going to play out.  Inflation, deflation and a reboot of the money game that leads to Japanification are the three most likely outcomes, imo, but I’m still struggling with which one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My best guess right now is a return to riptide inflation - deflation in some areas, inflation in others.  But if there’s ever a panic and governments/people decide to flee the US dollar, we’re in for a world of hurt.  Likewise, 10 trillion dollars, even if the velocity of money is through the floor, is a LOT of money.  So hyperinflation is not out of the question.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not very helpful, I guess.  When I figure out how this is going to play out, I’ll let everyone know.  If you think the money being thrown around will reboot the economy at least enough to get a lousy business cycle underway, great, high quality bonds are a decent place to be and there’s probably a buying opportunity for equities at some point in the next 9 months.  If not… well, a garden would be a good investment, actually…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In terms of muni bonds specifically, I assume that if there are widespread defaults the administration will bail them out.  So they’re /probably/ reasonably safe.  /Probably/.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Equities I expect to still have a bit to fall (but as with anything, take with a grain of salt.  I am /not/ good with markets.)  Bonds… I’m unsure.  At this point we’re in a twilight land of paper money, and I’m honestly still strugling with how that will play out.  I currently think that we’re look at riptide inflation, but the bet is whether or not the Obama administration can reboot the “paper for money” game in which they sell paper to the rest of the world and in exchange the rest of the world sells the US the goods and resources it needs.  It sounds absurd, but they might.  After all, pushers need drug addicts, and where are the oilarchies going to put their money?  Who is China going to sell all its crap to?  Europe is probably even in worse shape than the US.  They had their chance back in 04 to take the US down clean and replace it, they wimped.  Now they’re paying the price.</p>
<p>So… the question then is how you think this paper money economy is going to play out.  Inflation, deflation and a reboot of the money game that leads to Japanification are the three most likely outcomes, imo, but I’m still struggling with which one.</p>
<p>My best guess right now is a return to riptide inflation &#8211; deflation in some areas, inflation in others.  But if there’s ever a panic and governments/people decide to flee the US dollar, we’re in for a world of hurt.  Likewise, 10 trillion dollars, even if the velocity of money is through the floor, is a LOT of money.  So hyperinflation is not out of the question.</p>
<p>Not very helpful, I guess.  When I figure out how this is going to play out, I’ll let everyone know.  If you think the money being thrown around will reboot the economy at least enough to get a lousy business cycle underway, great, high quality bonds are a decent place to be and there’s probably a buying opportunity for equities at some point in the next 9 months.  If not… well, a garden would be a good investment, actually…</p>
<p>In terms of muni bonds specifically, I assume that if there are widespread defaults the administration will bail them out.  So they’re /probably/ reasonably safe.  /Probably/.</p>
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		<title>By: igo2go</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862666</link>
		<dc:creator>igo2go</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862666</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, do you have any insight into what fallout there may be with bonds and equities? Aren’t a bunch of corporate and municipal bonds and such at risk eventually? I’m wondering if lots of conservative and “safe” investments are possibly at risk. I have a friend with a Knights of Columbus equity and haven’t been able to find a blip about it being anything but golden…so much that was once golden ain’t so gold these days. I see the only truly safe thing being a Treasury Bond but cause if it goes down we are all pretty much just bartering barley for apples…”just cause I’m&lt;br /&gt;
paranoid doesn’t mean I not being followed” Just wondering.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, do you have any insight into what fallout there may be with bonds and equities? Aren’t a bunch of corporate and municipal bonds and such at risk eventually? I’m wondering if lots of conservative and “safe” investments are possibly at risk. I have a friend with a Knights of Columbus equity and haven’t been able to find a blip about it being anything but golden…so much that was once golden ain’t so gold these days. I see the only truly safe thing being a Treasury Bond but cause if it goes down we are all pretty much just bartering barley for apples…”just cause I’m<br />
paranoid doesn’t mean I not being followed” Just wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862641</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/21/what-geithners-talf-plan-teaches-us/#comment-1862641</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;He doesn’t believe in listening to blogs and other alternative sources. He’s said so himself.  He reads newspapers and some magazines and believes in people like Summers who are experts with “practical” experience, not just ivory tower people or hippies or bloggers.  Never mind that people like Krugman, bloggers and hippies have been write about foreign affairs and economics more than the so-called practical people like Summers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Being right means nothing in the world that Obama or most politicians and journalists inhabit.  You and I have no right to be heard, no matter how good our records are.  Krugman and Galbraith have a little bit of right, but only a little, after all, they’re not practical people, they just get things right more often than wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He doesn’t believe in listening to blogs and other alternative sources. He’s said so himself.  He reads newspapers and some magazines and believes in people like Summers who are experts with “practical” experience, not just ivory tower people or hippies or bloggers.  Never mind that people like Krugman, bloggers and hippies have been write about foreign affairs and economics more than the so-called practical people like Summers.</p>
<p>Being right means nothing in the world that Obama or most politicians and journalists inhabit.  You and I have no right to be heard, no matter how good our records are.  Krugman and Galbraith have a little bit of right, but only a little, after all, they’re not practical people, they just get things right more often than wrong.</p>
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