I’m going to discuss the administration’s plan to take toxic assets off the banks, then talk about what this and other moves this week (such as the Fed announcing $1.15 trillion in new spending) tell us about the administration’s plans for the financial sector and the economy, and how I believe they’re going to play out, as well as what the political power realities now are.
There are three parts to the plan to take toxic assets off the bank’s hands, of which, we mostly have the details of the first part, where the FDIC will form "private/public" partnerships to buy up assets. The plan has the FDIC loaning up to 85% of the cost of purchase as a non-recourse loan, which is backed up only by the value of the loan. Of the remaining 15%, the Treasury will lend up to 80%. The remaining 3% of money must be put up by the private partners. The government will share in any profits or losses of the underlying security, though we don’t know what percentage goes to the private investor or the public.
Think of this in simple terms. If I want to invest in securities, why would I want a 3% partner whom I have to split the return with? If the government is investing 97% of the money, why are they even bothering with private partners? Why not just pony up another 3%? Oh sure, there may be some occasions on which the private partners put up more, but if the government thought they could get more, why are they offering 97% financing, with 85% being a complete write-off, if the asset goes down rather than up?
There are two possible answers I can see:
The first is that they want "price discovery." They need some market set prices for the toxic waste. Of course, such prices could exist tomorrow. As the Times notes, private investors are willing to pay 30% of face for these assets. Banks want 60%. Banks can’t afford to allow a 30% valuation, because then most of them would be forced to revalue their books and that would make them formally bankrupt. However, if purchasing is highly subsidized and largely no risk "heads the taxpayer takes most of the loss, tails the private investors make money," then prices will probably be higher than 30% because investors won’t be taking the majority of the risk, and will be required to put almost no money down (3% only, which is about 33 to 1 leverage, insane in-and-of itself). Now, if the government just ponied up 100% of the money, it wouldn’t really be considered "price discovery," it would just be a government purchase at inflated prices. But if there are "private investors" involved, the administration may figure that it is legitimate price discovery. And, if they get some good prices, they can then have the banks use those values for price discovery. . . and voilà – they aren’t bankrupt (or at least, not as bankrupt. Degrees do matter).
The second is simpler. The involvement of a small amount of private money is a fig leaf allowing the government to get as much toxic waste off the banks books as possible, with the majority of the risk and cost being born by the taxpayers, with a good part of the profit potential being given to private investors. In this scenario, this is just a cynical move to take private losses from the banks and put them into public hands with a good chunk of the upside still being in private hands. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
What’s fascinating about this to me is less what they’re doing (we knew the general details earlier) than the fact that as Taibbi has noted they’re completely bypassing Congress, and yet spending huge amounts of money. Say what you will about Paulson, he at least asked for the money from Congress. Bear in mind that there is only about $350 billion or so of Paulson’s TARP money left. The treasury portion of the FDIC plan, assuming full loaning, is about $120 billion. The rest of the money will be used for parts 2 and 3 of the plan – a dollar-for-dollar match with a few securities firms to buy up trash, and the remainder to be used in combination with the Fed to expand lending on some types of securities.
What this means is that $850 billion is coming from the FDIC. The FDIC hasn’t been given $850 billion in new money by Congress, last I heard.
And this week, the Fed announced that it would spend $1.15 trillion – $300 billion to buy treasuries, $750 billion to buy mortgage backed securities guaranteed by Freddie and Fannie, and a $100 billion of Freddie and Fannie debt.
So, $2 trillion of new spending, none of it approved of by Congress. One might argue that the Fed has the right to print as much money as it feels like, and Congress gave it that right in the past, and that the FDIC, since it can set premiums on members, can spend its money how it chooses, but there is no question that, at the end of the day, the government of the US is on the hook for $2 trillion more of spending, loans, and guarantees, and there is no question that Congress wasn’t asked.
This week, we heard that the deficit was up to $1.8 trillion, and there was much squealing and rending of hair as a result. But that number is totally fictional. The Fed, Treasury, and FDIC, over the last year or so, have spent, loaned, guaranteed, and issued trillions of dollars more (not sure how many trillions at this point. Probably in excess of $10 trillion.)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that’s a lot of money. The underlying assumption, as Krugman noted today, is that nothing is fundamentally wrong with the economy (something I’ve said myself, in the past). Get past this crisis, the values of all the toxic waste will go back up to bubble valuations, and the government will be able to unwind all its positions, and while there will be a cost, it won’t be that big.
Now, if you think that there are things fundamentally wrong with the economy, and that fundamental changes are needed to fix said economy, then you aren’t going to like what the administration is doing, because it’s not clear to you that the values of these assets are going to recover enough, and it is clear to you than the US economy needs a fundamental restructuring. And the administration is not doing that. There is no move to reinstate a full-fledged renewed Glass-Steagall. There is no move to break up too-large-to-fail banks and to forbid investment banks, brokerages, and commercial banks from being under the same roof. There is no fundamental restructuring of the tax system to rein in compensation everywhere so that executives don’t have incentives to burn down their companies for ready profits which can be turned into multi-million dollar bonuses. It’s not just recipients of funds which need a 90% tax rate, it’s everyone (though I’d start the rate at a million, not 250K.) And so on (the list of changes is much longer).
Meanwhile attempts to solve the problem by simply throwing money at it are going to start running up against macroeconomic reality. Inflation is not everywhere and always a function of money supply, but if you print enough money (and the Fed has) it’s going to show up somewhere. In the case of the US, it is going to show up in the dollar starting to decline, and in riptide inflation – deflation in some areas will continue, but in other areas inflation will start to take off (for example, in energy prices.)
In the end what we have is an administration which has side-stepped Congress to do what it wants to do, and spent money without specific Congressional authorization. Their plans appear to mostly consist of throwing money at the problem and taking bad assets off the hands of the private sector, while making sure that if there are any profits, the private sector gets a good chunk of them, despite only putting up a tiny amount of money.
In other words, they’re trying to create a secondary bubble. If they can do so they figure they can pay back enough of the money due to improved asset prices. If they fail, the US will be as close to bankrupt as a sovereign country can get, though since everyone else will be bankrupt, too (everyone’s throwing money at the problem) we can all just pretend that no one’s bankrupt, I suppose.
But one way or the other, the rich will have had much or most of their bad debts taken off of them and put onto the backs of taxpayers. Mission accomplished, I suppose. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
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It is an amazing idea that this bogus auction is “price discovery.” Do they think the boyz and girl at the hedge funds will buy that idea?
Second verse, save as first …
Third verse, same as first …
Not acceptable.
If we-the-people put up the money, we-the-people get the profits too.
(Same like dealing with pro sports: if a team wants all the receipts from parking or luxury seats or the entire stadium, the team gets to put up all the money for it. If that makes the league turn down the location, fine: we won’t have spent money on something we can’t use ourselves.)
I say, buy gold.
Good luck to all here.
we still got hope
Ian, thanks for discussing a key aspect of this plan which is to bypass Congress. When I heard the plan announced on the radio this morning and they mentioned how Congress would not need to approve this spending I nearly fell off my chair.
This isn’t just about Congress, it is about the public. The powers that be are not happy about the public outcry over AIG. If you cut out Congress, then you cut-off the public at the knees. My local rep is pretty useless, but he is likely to be a lot more responsive to my concerns than Obama, if for no other reason than the fact my rep answers to a much smaller number of people in his district than live in the USA.
This appears to be just the sort of power grab Taibbi wrote so eloquently about this week. Given Obama’s ardent support of Geithner (he announced today that he would refuse Geithner’s resignation if tendered), what can J. Q. Taxpayer do to put a stop to the looting spree?
Thanks Ian.
digg is open.
Congress will be really happy to avoid responsibility. It’s been a long continuous process of that to get to the unitary executive that Obama is enjoying so much.
Not CHANGE, changiness.
My only comment is that when some one says the fundamentals of the economy are sound, it should be specified as the “real economy” where real people work, produce, and live. I think, loosely speaking that is correct. Things are not falling apart as fast as during the Great Depression in many ways in the real, as opposed the financial economy. The financial economy is not sound.
As for The New Plan -which I will call Paid ‘em (off) Lane IV- from what we know so far, I think it’s the second option. Honest, good faith plans I have seen that include auctions or purchase programs to promote price discovery always have two phases. If you don’t know the prices, and price discovery is to mean anything, what is done with and to whom should be contingent on what the prices say. So, you would have two phases to purchase program, or some schedule that forces private sector to take on more risk after prices were discovered, you would definitely have the vaunted stress test (or better yet, an audit) after some prices were discovered, rather than before. Nothing about that so far has been revealed.
I haven’t repeated this or awhile, so I suppose it is not a total opinion-spam. My idea for price discovery is for the government to to buy up all the distressed mortgages the private investors do not want at low prices, get people in them, and get them paying rents. We will find out what rents will clear the market for middle class shelter services. Then we have asset prices based on fundamentals. Then we have some basis for sorting out the financial mess. So: Home Owner’s Loan Corporation II.
I aslo note there are no serious plans to fix the distress in the real housing market, which everyone agrees must be fixed in order to solve the other problems. The housing market is getting to be like the weather, everyone complains about it, but no one ever does anything.
As for the banks desired recovery rate, I have heard of recovery rates of 60% from private investors, which I guess is the bottom of what the mega-banks consider acceptable, but that is only in the very high end neighborhoods. In most neighborhoods, the values I’ve seen are much lower.
FWIW, Cost-Push Inflation vs. Demand-Pull Inflation
Congress has the power to roll the Fed back in and to forbid the FDIC from spending money on non-core functions without Congressional approval. It wouldn’t take much to do it, if Democratic leadership decides to. Even if some Dems decide to go over, some Republicans would vote for.
The real unemployment rate (ie. on an equivalent basis) is now where it was at the depth of the 82 recession. We’re getting there. I wouldn’t say the real economy is sound, at all. It may not be falling apart as fast as in the Great Depression, but that ain’t saying much.
Your plan is a decent one.
This is, as Krugman and Delong have observed, not change of any sort. It is simply the same monumental stupidity Paulson was offering up. Apparently nobody except the White House thinks that this has any possibility of solving our problems. It is time for a Swedish massage, with a full Brazilian for the stockholders and bondholders.
The Congress is very happy to be out of the loop. If it works, they will take credit. If it doesn’t, they will note that it was done without their approval. Politics 101.
Fair enough, but I’m not willing to concede to the Unitard-in-Chief just yet. I still want to fight back and defend our tripartite system of government, even if Congress can’t be bothered.
That may be true. In which case, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye, because the administration is bound and determined to spend every cent the US has and will have for the forseeable future on a project that at best will lead to a temporary recovery and then another nosedive without enough resources left to deal with it.
At best.
Excellent political analysis, thanks.
It stinks to high heaven, but I may have to start saying nice things about Republicans on this one narrow issue.
Thanks Ian. Is someone around here (i.e. a frontpager) planning a post on what specifically we need to ask Congress to do? Galbraith wants us to demand Congress look at the loan tapes, which is certainly a good start. But I suspect we need a short list of things to insist on. So for starters:
1) Prevent FDIC spending a dime without specific Congressional approval
2) Require the Fed to get Congressional approval for its spending plan
3) Require a full and public accounting of every firm getting a bailout, so we know where the money is going and how it is being spent. This needs to include a detailed review (e.g., the loan tapes) of any asset the government plans to acquire a majority stake in.
Anything else we need to make sure is on the list?
In terms of getting the MSM’s attention, any opinions about the relative value of Galbraith’s strategy, trying to audit the loan tapes?
I believe Jane is working on something. I’m not aware of the details, however.
I think opening the books up completely on all these companies is something that needs to be done. You can’t clear up uncertainty without doing so. And once we know how bad it is, we can decide what to do with the facts at hand.
I was speaking very loosely in the sense that if meaningful action were taken in the financial economy, and the dysfunctional connection between housing market and mortgage securities market fixed, this could still be a severe, ‘U’-shaped recession.
But you are right that signs are not good. And the official statistics hide the true extent of unemployment -the definition used before the 1960s was broader than the top line number quoted today (I forget the number they use for it).
Thanks for pointing out the political machinery involved. And also thanks for the bubble analogy, which the more I think about it, is a good one, and is another thing competent and reality based economists across the ideological spectrum are worried about. The Fed is releasing huge amounts of liquidity. Right now, in economic free fall, that is not a problem. The involvent and near-involvent mega-banks will sit on most of it for a long time. But enough will leak out, and when the economy starts to recover, even a little of that huge mass will cause problems. And then your bubble anology will still be good, since then will have to worry about how to control it and manage a soft landing, or some kind of smooth glide to somewhere or other.
Ha! That is a laugh, in a few years, at this rate, there will be arguments about how to manage a soft landing from the top of the pitable little stagflationary hill at the bottom of a long miserable economic trough.
The way I heard it is:
Second verse, same as the first.
A little bit louder, and a little bit worse.
Summer camp. That’s how it goes.
Very clever. Good. Ha!
There’s a reason they say “politics makes strange bedfellows” ; )
Years ago when the pinheaded Dem leadership in Massachusetts shoved John Silber down our throats as a gubernatorial candidate, most of my friends and I sucked it up and voted for Bill Weld the Republican. We greeted each other for months saying “Hello fellow Republican!” and giggled ourselves sick. It wasn’t our preference of course, but sometimes you do what you gotta do ; )
I wonder if hyperbole is worse than hyperinflation?
I’m hoping it’s something with meat, details and something else.
Yeah, we’ve still got hope, but the value is considerably down.
You’ve covered the macro side, imho.
On the micro side, I think we have to audit the loan tapes, because there’s so much damn fraud.
Amid subprime rush, swindlers snatched $4 million
Felons’ free access to state licenses left the door open to an unchallenged series of fraudulent transactions
The super rich will pour over the loan tapes with sophisticated software, that will weed out the obviously fraudulent loans.
In which case, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye,
Ian, is this the same Ian who many months ago when speaking to what we should be doing to live through this financial crisis said Make sure all your neighbor’s love you?
Seriously wondering.
You can do whatever you want to with your butt, but I’m certainly not in a position to give advice.
People here look forward to you have to say.
I think my record on predictions indicates that what people think I mean as hyperbole is usually cold hard fact.
of course, this could be an exception. Everything could turn out fine.
But one rule of analysis that has served me well for a long time is this “whether it’s theoretically possible to fix something or not doesn’t matter, all that matters is whether decision makers will do it in the real world.”
I really see very little to indicate that there is enough difference between the Obama administration’s policies and the Bush administration’s policies to make this turn out well.
Of course reality may hit them with a clue bat at some point. And they may be able to learn. But we don’t know that yet, what we know is that they’re either doing the wrong things or they’re doing the right things (the stimulus bill, for example) in the wrong way and half assed.
I lack confidence in their approach.
I’m so sorry. Just had to jam home.
But, I’m hopeful for the future. :)
Yes, there are things you can and should do personally. What I’m saying is that you shouldn’t count on the Federal government to fix this, because they clearly either don’t have a clue, or have other priorities that are more important. I don’t know which, but I know their plans suck.
The first step towards dealing with a problem is knowing who’s going to help and who isn’t. You may get /some/ relief from the government in terms of UI and employment programs, but don’t expect those to be more than bandaids. They’ll help some people, but unless they change things they aren’t sufficient by themselves.
So after you kiss your butt goodbye look to your friends, neighbours and family to see what you can do to survive the loss of your backside. Obama and Geithner are not going to save you.
Yes, and importantly, OPENING THE BOOKS would give at least some guidance regarding how to price the overlying securities, as Galbraith points out. This might help to lessen the losses we are guaranteed to experience via the Geithner Plan.
How was your trip, demi?
3%– Now we know what Obama means by “skin in the game.”
Ian, do you want us to count “Everything could turn out fine as an actual prediction?
Because I think it might hurt your average.
What I’m saying is that you shouldn’t count on the Federal government to fix this…
Yep, got that part.
And, treating friends like you want to be treated. Got that too.
You are soooooo correct.
No, Ian, your comment at #15 had nothing to do with “cold hard fact.” It had everything to do with hyperbole. Read it again.
And, you might be surprised to know that I have a high regard for your opinions.
And yet the Obamabots are still out in full force, screaming Leave Britney Alone! whenever someone dares to criticize Obama the Unquestionable, his subordinates or their decisions. I just want to know, are these people for real, because such delusion is truly astonishing, or is this Mark Penn-style astroturfing intended to squelch dissent on the left?
You’re not the only one.
(I just went over and left another very pointed comment at the WH email drop. They won’t be able to claim we didn’t tell them so, unless this WH wants to lose its mail also.)
If it goes on like this, he’ll be a one-term president. Why he is so loyal to Geithner I don’t know.
Not that that would be the greatest of our worries.
lol. Well, you can mark it against me, if you wish. I get to take back the “gutting SS” one, I think, so my average will stay the same.
And I did hedge it with “could”. :)
Really though, Obama, on financial policy, has been worse than I expected, and I didn’t have high expectations. There is no fundamental difference between what the Obama admin is doing and what paulson/Bush did in financial terms.
The stimulus is better than a Bush stimulus bill would have been, but by less than it needed to be.
Really busy and hectic. The conference was NAPNAP…National Association of Pediatric Nurses…so my daughter’s booth (on educating parents on doing correct dosage implentation on OTC drugs) was really popular. Worked my butt off!
But, had many, many great conversations with a whole bunch of educated, critical thinking and caring women.
Pooped, tho. *g*
New post: IDF Fashion Report: T-Shirts are IN; Ethics are OUT
Another tranche the super rich will
leave to the taxpayersnot buy are loans from white-collar thugs, aka “affinity” marketing mortgage brokers, who fanned out through poor neighborhoods targeting people with substantial home equity. They were creating “product” for an assembly line that flowed from mortgage bankers such as Country Wide, Freemont General, and First Century to the CDO machinery run by firms like Merrill and Citi.They loaded the poor (who couldn’t possibly understand), but frequently had substantial equity, up with teaser rates that emptied the equity out of their homes into the pockets of the super rich.
They’ve already fleeced these addresses, they’re not going to buy them back, because they know they already sucked out all the equity.
Agreed. What troubles me so much is they are trying to keep so much hidden away from public view. That does not inspire confidence.
If they really think this is the best possible plan, then open up the books and show us the numbers. Show us precisely (what are the assets, what are they worth) how their plan will pay off for the taxpayers in the long run. I don’t think the government has done due diligence to prove they are spending our money wisely.
Further, we have not heard one word about how they plan to proceed with restructuring the financial system (breaking up banks, preventing them from growing back to “too-big-to-fail size”) and re-regulating so that this crisis doesn’t return.
So far it’s just endless piles of tax dollars vanishing to who knows where. Really, what’s to like at this point?
That’s not what is truly important, is it?
Choose your battles.
(It probably shouldn’t matter that I agree, but, it still doesn’t matter as much as other issues.)
Oh, ok, they won’t spend every cent on useless stuff. Just most of the cents. It’s only slightly hyperbole, and I stand by the fundamental point, which is that the administration is not going to get the US out of this and it is spending so many trillions of dollars that it is spending not just today’s money but the majority of your money for the future as well. If they fail, you will be effectively bankrupt in one form or another (dollar collapse and inflation being one way it can happen. There are others) You can believe that point, or not, but if you choose to dismiss it out of hand you are missing an important point–which is that the administration and the past administration have put you on the hook for over 10 trillion dollars, spending it on plans that probably won’t work.
That’s real money. A lot of real money. One way or the other, you WILL pay it back, even if you default. It will come out of your hide.
And that’s not hyperbole.
You can click on Ian’s name, right underneathe the title. It will take you to all his previous posts. If you find a scintilla of hyperbole, please let us know.
He’s made what I at the time thought were bold predictions. He’s been dead-on.
Krugman calls it going with the zombie plan. Walsh seems of a same mind.
Wreck the American dollar. That should unwind American militarism and global hegemon.
The capitalists/corporatists having ignored the yellow cautionary lights are now proceeding to run the red lights as well.
Privatize the profits. Socialize the costs. So it would seem.
American currency value depleted. Inflation. Deflation.
Hang the negatives on the American taxpayer. Protect the rich.
Thats the ticket. Obama WH keeps this up it will be a one term Obama WH.
Honey, if a line from your post affects more than one person a certain way to the extent that they question you…hello? Live and learn. Just saying.
Have to agree completely. That (very mild) euphoria over good early moves on Iraq and Gitmo has faded and I am really disappointed with his moves on the economy. Everything is too little, often too late, or the same tired old failed ideads. He seems terrified of taking actions which all the economists who were right about the economy over the past decade insist must be taken. He absolutely does not want to admit that the problem in the financial system is that these megabanks (and other financial institutions) are effectively insolvent. We need to take them over, do a controlled bankruptcy, break them up, and sell off the pieces, just like the FDIC does several times every week lately with regular banks.
Not hyperbole, but maybe some folks react differently to pedantic and patronizing. YMMV, and that’s okay with me too.
“In other words, they’re trying to create a secondary bubble.”
That was the only conclusion I could reach too- they think they’ll be able to restore the inflated values.
I just don’t think so.
I’m coming in kinda late to the party here, but the mention upthread about”sophisticated software” got me to thinking about the “man in the middle” scheme alegedly used in the 2004 election in Ohio.
That involved rerouting votes in Ohio in a server to Tennesse,btw.
Now,could something comparable to that have been done with some of these financial instruments to obfuscate their origin ,and delete or convert certain aspects that would be deemed questionable -in the case of checking the loan tapes as Galbraith postulated?
Brad blog and Velvet Revolution had TONS of info about the “man in the middle.”
Some say it caused Mike Connell his life.
Ian has been most prescient about how this stuff would go down… scary some times, but pretty dead on.
As I’ve noted before, those who don’t like my writing are free not to read it. Pretty sure no one is forcing anyone to click the links. There are a lot of writers in the big wide web who are happy to tell you what you want to hear with writing meant to never meant to jar. Such writing seems more suited to your temperament.
Good evening:
I mentioned this on an earlier thread,but Inner City Press website was specifically created,out of the BRONX,mind you ,to track redlining and other abuses of the inner city – and low income folk elsewhere-by the global, vulture capitalists.
I would humbly recommend this superb littloe site to all here.
A little gem,imho.
I’ve gotten some big things wrong in the past, and I’m sure I will again in the future. No one is infallible, and a lot depends on political actors who can change their mind.
I don’t promise infallibility. What I do promise is that I don’t BS. What I write is what I really believe.
Well, thanks.
Just trying to help, but….
preach away, brother.
Taking refuge from Orange Satan? There is too much Tiger Beat mentality about Obama for my stomach. Lotsa good stuff but the Obamabots are irritating to say the least.
What I meant to say is that if you really want to reach people…..you just may listen to how you are heard, to some. If it’s about something else, feel free to continue…
No, I think when a commenter who isn’t relentlessly negative about my writing, like Oldgold (as opposed to you) makes such a comment, it deserves an explanatory comment in return, not to be left alone.
Okay. I hear you.
If I expected infallibility I’d lead a very disappointed life! I appreciate your posts a great deal.
(hate to sound obsequious(!), but anyway…)
Put simply the Geithner plan is the stupidest thing I have seen in this whole mess and when you look around at this disaster that is saying something.
Incidentally, what they were doing is called “reverse redlining.”
PURPOSELY targeting economically depressed areas to taget FOR loans-as opposed to the traditional redlining which involved bankers AVOIDING economically depressed areas.
You probably already knew that,but I thought it might be worth mentioning ,just for the record.
Why is it that every time I read about what the government is trying to do about this problem I just get more upset? I guess it’s because I agree with Hugh @ 68 . Every new plan seems even more impractical than the last one, and no one who can do anything useful is willing to.
I have to disagree. The stupidest thing was the original Paulson plan, which was to shovel an infinite amount of money at the banks he liked (and fuck the ones he did not) with out asking any questions or putting any conditions or stipulations on it. The Geithner plan dresses that up a bit and thus only comes in a close second.
“Stupid” means not using the brains you have. Considering the intellectual paucity of the Bush Administration, Hugh’s still right.
With due respect Dick,you can put Frankenstein in a tuxedo,but he’s still a monster,isn’t he?
Actually “stupid” means not having any brains to use, not using them is “foolish”. I would agree that this is first rate folly.
As I said, a close second. A very close second, though they do seem to be trying to put a few (admittedly minor) restraints into the process, compared to the original Paulson version (even Krugman says it is marginally better).
Paulson “only” wasted $350 billion on his side of the TARP. Geithner is looking at blowing a lot more. Still it is the sheer dimwittery of the scheme that puts it in a class by itself. There is a reason that this plan and Rube Goldberg get mentioned so often together.
Agree. Ian has been right on. Wish I’d followed his advice wrt the economy sooner…
That and a wisp of blowing dandelion seeds…
Window dressing,or as some might say-lipstick on the pig.
Remember,many a common clay pot is painted with a pretty glaze.
Perception vs. reality.
Ever wonder why PR firms make billions?
Rube Goldberg?
How about Goldman’s rubes?
As with most things, I am going to try to keep an open mind about this.
It seems to me the real key here is what will the default rate be and what will the ultimate recovery be on the defaults.
I am by no means supporting this slow motion train wreck, just don’t think it is quite as bad as the Paulson plan. Paulson has an unnatural advantage in that he was term limited in how much damage he could do. Geithner has much more time and could easily do far more damage, just more slowly.
@81
Hmmh…Paulson named Liddy to head AIG,after he(Paulson) named Liddy to the board of Goldman Sachs, when he ,Paulson ,was CEO of Goldman Sachs.
Liddy had to resign his seat on the Board of Goldman Sachs to assume the helm of AIG in November,2008, ,just AFTER the bailout was negotiated by Paulson ……..under threat of martial law if it wasn’t passed…how much time does destruction require?
YouTube – Paulson Was Behind Bailout Martial Law Threat Thursday, November 20, 2008 Senator James Inhofe has revealed that Henry Paulson was behind the threats of martial law and a new great depression prior to …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KMNE8dNOfQ – 114k – Cached – Similar pages
Paulson Was Behind Bailout Martial Law Threat : business Nov 20, 2008 … Declaring martial law is the same as declaring war on the citizens of this country. The federal government does not have this authority and …
http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comm…..aw_threat/ – 138k – Cached – Similar pages
After a bit of thought, I would say this is a good analogy for my view of the Pauslon/Geithner comparison. Frankenstein in a tuxedo: an improvement on the original, but still a butt ugly monster.
Mr. Murphy is upstairs!
Food Safety Working Group: Will Obama Close the Revolving Door?
yes, final recovery rate matters a lot. But even if you assume it’s going to be high, you wouldn’t do it this way if your first job was to make sure taxpayers don’t get screwed, becuase you wouldn’t want to split the returns when putting up to 97% of the money down. It just doesn’t make sense. You might as well just put 100% of the money down, the downside isn’t significantly greater and the upside is better. (Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t do that either, without also nationalizing. But it makes marginally more sense.)
This plan doesn’t make sense on the face, on its own terms.
Can’t remember if it was Krugman, Delong, or Baker who said it (been reading too many economists lately), but in reality it would appear that the best case scenario is that the recovery rate will be no more than 30%.
fyi: “Washington Mutual holding company sues FDIC”
story
I have a loan tape if anyone is interested.
It’s not very revealing.
here are the columns
Asset ID, List ID, REO Status, Property Type, Address, City, State, Zip, County, FMV
FMV = fair market value.
It’s enough to do due diligence on as the sum of FMV = what the bank believe the assets are worth.
I personally believe thet if a loan is being sold at a discount and 97% of the purchase price is “our money” that the owner of the property should get first right of refusal to buy the loan (ass-et).
Paulson had a comprehensible agenda even if it was to help out his friends and punish his enemies. Geithner by contrast just doesn’t seem to know what he is doing. And we have to add in Larry Summers in that statement as well. But I have to say that the line about Geithner being really understaffed is getting really old. I think it was Meredith Whitney or someone who said that there were a lot of smart, and still reputable, people on Wall Street who were interested in working on and solving this mess. But Geithner has not put out even a general call to them. Same thing that there are tons of smart unemployed people from Wall Street too and no move has been made to hire them either.
@84:
And ,not to put too fine a point on it,but Frankenstein was soulless,too.
I think Geithner’s and Summer’s problem is that they are integrally part of the system which created the problems and are prisoners of the group think that got us into this mess. Geithner “knows” what he is doing, he just does not understand (and is incapable of doing so) why it isn’t working. Krugman is dead on target here, that Geithner fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the problem. As my homeboy Will Rogers once put it, “Ignorance is not the problem. It is all the things folks know that aren’t so.”
Thanks Ian — great post. Geithner’s plan looks like a trifecta of corruption, ignorance & insanity except as viewed from Wall Street, Pennsylvania Avenue & K Street.
If you haven’t caught Taibbi’s article yet, it’s 2009 Pulitzer prize material.
Well, you really have to hand to Obama and his “Team of Rivals”. Now the outrage is not at GW Bush and Company and the unconstitutional crimes they committed, it’s about the idiotic bonuses. And now they want US to move on from THAT, which is OK by me as I always thought they were a distraction worthy of the Bush admin itself.
I just find it interesting that all these crises which have been created to turn US every way but loose are obfuscating all the really, really important issues which will/will not bring this nation down.
Obama is not the agent of change he claims to be, he is totally and completely big business with a “let them eat cake” attitude. Can’t eat pretty talk and by the time everyone gets over the “hope” hangover, we could well be starving in the streets.
I’m no economist, just a suspicious person, and I saw we were in big trouble back when Bush signed the “no-bankruptcy bill”. I don’t need to be an economist to know that people are scared to spend a dime right now and my business, which was doing very well last year, before Hanky came out shouting “the sky is falling”, ( the October surprise we were all waiting for) is now flat lining.
I strongly suspect that the entire thing was made up or knowingly caused by Giethner allowing Lehman to fail.
But throwing the entire world’s GDP for two years at the problem is just more transfer of wealth in my book.
Perhaps it’ll speed up the NAU for them, who knows??? But they’ve got something up their sleeves and it ain’t to help US.
Something that eCahn told me in a comment earlier today surprised me. She said that the financial forecasters she’s heard all think that we will be through with the recession by the end of this year. When she asked them what their evidence was they didn’t have any just their belief. I agree with you. Geithner, Summers, and Bernanke are both part of and responsible for a lot of this group think or what I call happy talk. It self-reinforces but isn’t based on anything.
Extremely good to see you back, Ian.
@92:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. ~ Upton Sinclair
Indeed.
It is based on a lot of what are now fairly obviously wrong assumptions about how the world works. Any theoretical model contains a large number of assumptions of that sort and theirs seemed to work for quite a while. The problem is that they are unable to adjust or discard the model even when it fails.
Obama’s repeated statements about controlling the deficit are scary, not happy talk. This crisis plays into the hands of Norquist, Peterson & other republican loonanaries who assert that now, we don’t have the resources to fund government programs like expanded health care access.
The recession ending by late 2009 leaves me skeptical. Putting happy talk aside, I don’t see how the real economy can right itself until the systemic phantom financial overhang is dealt with.
Yeah, those statements bother me as well. I am less concerned about the whackjob deficit hawks like Norquist than I am that Obama will fall into the same trap Roosevelt did and move too quickly on reducing the deficit and end up making things worse.
Something’s going on here that we’re not seeing.
Any administration can have industry-captured idiots at the helm making policy that screws the taxpayer. But to have two administrations within six months, with different ideologies, with different players, come up with the same bad idea seems too unlikely to be a mere accident.
So it probably isn’t an accident. Which means that an approach with low chance of success and high chance of blatant transfer of a great deal of wealth from public to private hands is being pursued deliberately.
Why?
Why is a second set of elected and appointed officials supposedly dedicated to the public good embarking on a course that will almost certainly cause great harm and further suffering to citizens who are innocent of causing this debacle?
Where is the pressure coming from? Can Wall Street and corporate kleptocrats, as disgraced as they are, still muster enough cojones to make their buds in D.C. dance? Are there foreign players (China, Saudi Arabia for two) with enough power to make the U.S. government actively promote policies that run against the best interests of the citizenry?
Something’s going on here that we’re not seeing.
Second that emotion…a rational ordering of the facts and a description of the effect of the political forces adds transparency to a condition we need to move in a constructive direction. It helps along with the great body of current work. Calculated Risks gets the economic current event so using all the sources is a big help.
Glad you are on it.
Welcome, Cathyg.
I think we can see it, but are powerless to evaluate its importance.
Really good question…
Why indeed?
Not seeing, possibly.
I believe a schizophrenic vision is emerging of what the Obama administration could become — the third term of both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.
Or understanding it but ignoring it on purpose.
I certainly haven’t seen any evidence of that, though Obama is certainly closer to Clinton politically than I would like. Of course, I said that during the primary campaigns.
Thank you for your reply.
Understanding it but ignoring it….could that not be the basis for exactly WHY the MILLION $ bonuses have been paid to the thieves on Wall Street?
[Mod Note: Gentle reminder that using all caps is perceived as shouting, which is discouraged. Thanks.]
OR WHY WE CONTINUE TO SEE A PROCESSION OF HIGH PAID EXXECUTIVES WHO APPEAR TO HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT RUN THEIR CORPORATIONS TO RUIN-BUT COLLECT OBSCENE BONUSES-AND GO ON TO BE REHIRED ,SOMETIMES BY THEIR FORMWER COMPETITORS?
Not where they fall on the political spectrum.
The power & wealth superstructure chooses candidates to perpetuate the system. Yesterday on Jane’s AIG post, I quoted from Network’s (1976) screenplay. Nothing’s change since then.
C’mon Ian, fess up, this is just a wealth transfer from the taxpayer to the hedge funds and every one else that’s a creditor of the major banks … there is no difference between the SACs and the Special Purpose Vehicles used by ENRON …
@110:
So did I,i.e., quote from “Network”-the solilloquiy from Arthur Jensen-BUT ,I inserted the address to Mr. Geithner,as a substitute to Howard Beale.
bonsoir, and i’ve not heard anything to that effect actually, every one i know is pushing their estimates of the trough of this monster further and further into the future
Response to mod note:
So noted-I inadvertently hit the caps key ,and did not realize my error till it was submitted.
Sorry, no intention at being discourteous.
Appreciate it.
For a sports nut, Obama’s quite lacking in the clue bat department.
I just find it astounding that he’s apparently so isolated that he listens to Geithner, Summers et al. and their “version” of both the problem(s) and solution(s). No one else appears to make it into the room/onto his reading list.
Has he always been that uninquiring/trusting of others? Is he insecure on this subject? Snowed by the purported knowledge of the “Wall Street Experts”?
I’m sorry; I just can’t figure it.
As movie scripts go, Network is the best illustration of what’s driven this morass into the abyss.
Every time I hear this “Frankenstein in a tuxedo,” I try to come up with some smart ass remark, like about how Geithner et al. probably never went to their proms, so they think this is how one constructs a mighty fine prom date. But I just can’t manage it.
Yes, Taibbi’s article rocks. Added a link to it in my post.
He can write, too.
I think I more or less said that.
He doesn’t believe in listening to blogs and other alternative sources. He’s said so himself. He reads newspapers and some magazines and believes in people like Summers who are experts with “practical” experience, not just ivory tower people or hippies or bloggers. Never mind that people like Krugman, bloggers and hippies have been write about foreign affairs and economics more than the so-called practical people like Summers.
Being right means nothing in the world that Obama or most politicians and journalists inhabit. You and I have no right to be heard, no matter how good our records are. Krugman and Galbraith have a little bit of right, but only a little, after all, they’re not practical people, they just get things right more often than wrong.
Ian, do you have any insight into what fallout there may be with bonds and equities? Aren’t a bunch of corporate and municipal bonds and such at risk eventually? I’m wondering if lots of conservative and “safe” investments are possibly at risk. I have a friend with a Knights of Columbus equity and haven’t been able to find a blip about it being anything but golden…so much that was once golden ain’t so gold these days. I see the only truly safe thing being a Treasury Bond but cause if it goes down we are all pretty much just bartering barley for apples…”just cause I’m
paranoid doesn’t mean I not being followed” Just wondering.
Equities I expect to still have a bit to fall (but as with anything, take with a grain of salt. I am /not/ good with markets.) Bonds… I’m unsure. At this point we’re in a twilight land of paper money, and I’m honestly still strugling with how that will play out. I currently think that we’re look at riptide inflation, but the bet is whether or not the Obama administration can reboot the “paper for money” game in which they sell paper to the rest of the world and in exchange the rest of the world sells the US the goods and resources it needs. It sounds absurd, but they might. After all, pushers need drug addicts, and where are the oilarchies going to put their money? Who is China going to sell all its crap to? Europe is probably even in worse shape than the US. They had their chance back in 04 to take the US down clean and replace it, they wimped. Now they’re paying the price.
So… the question then is how you think this paper money economy is going to play out. Inflation, deflation and a reboot of the money game that leads to Japanification are the three most likely outcomes, imo, but I’m still struggling with which one.
My best guess right now is a return to riptide inflation – deflation in some areas, inflation in others. But if there’s ever a panic and governments/people decide to flee the US dollar, we’re in for a world of hurt. Likewise, 10 trillion dollars, even if the velocity of money is through the floor, is a LOT of money. So hyperinflation is not out of the question.
Not very helpful, I guess. When I figure out how this is going to play out, I’ll let everyone know. If you think the money being thrown around will reboot the economy at least enough to get a lousy business cycle underway, great, high quality bonds are a decent place to be and there’s probably a buying opportunity for equities at some point in the next 9 months. If not… well, a garden would be a good investment, actually…
In terms of muni bonds specifically, I assume that if there are widespread defaults the administration will bail them out. So they’re /probably/ reasonably safe. /Probably/.
As you’ve noted many times, Ian, narrative creates context, which in turn confers credibility and relevance. Rubin’s acolytes have been designated as successors to the Chicago School within the Villagers’ narrative. Preserving the established lines of power and influence is their sole reason for being.
Blogs challenge these narratives and threaten this structure. In the current crisis, the chance for a new system to emerge from the profoundly broken one is a fight between powerful, competing interests.
Obama’s economic & treasury officials give me no confidence that he will seize the phoenix because he sees neither the ashes extending in all directions nor the arsonists who burned down the forest and keep returning to the scene of the crime to pour more gasoline on the embers.
His concept governing for the public good is being tested for its depth and durability. Superficial rhetoric & careful PR coded to reassure Wall Street, or a commitment to real change? So far, I’ve seen the former, not the latter. We have less than one year before the 2010 election blood sports begin amidst a $3 billion a day deficit.
It is a small window with so much at stake.
Ive heard that Summers deliberately kept out the economically clueful, e.g., Krugman, Stiglitz, Roubini, Taleb, Galbraith, Baker, … Summers is the son of Paul Samuelson’s brother and Kenneth Arrow’s sister (i.e., both uncles are Nobel-leaurate economists), which might account for something.
“The underlying assumption, as Krugman noted today, is that nothing is fundamentally wrong with the economy (something I’ve said myself, in the past).”
What did you say in the past? That nothing is wrong with the economy? Oooh kaaay, then.
Is it too early to start looking for a challenger to Obama in ‘12? Dare I say it, a challenge from the left? I’m sure Hillary would have been much smarter and more decisive that Obama has been to this point. OTOH, can’t we do better than Hillary? I mean, I love her, but the men she relies on…are nearly the same as the ones Obama does – she’s just not as wet behind the ears. And what’s going to be left of the economy by ‘12?
My Obamabot friend has gotten over some initial “dissappointments” and is now flying high on O’s recent inspiring speech on the Persian new year, and his bland reassurances on the economy. “Inspiration” is the opiate of the masses who have no access the real stuff.
Yes, Paddy Chayefsky was truly a genius and visionary. About six months ago,I ordered my personal copy of Network-amazed to learn that it was originally meant to be a satire(!).Funny,we’re not laughing now,are we?
For a work of non fiction,from the same era-the 70’s -is a far more sobering projection of the blueprint for American society.
It is called :
“Changing Images of Man”,commissioned by the government and done by Stanford Research Institute.It is available on the net in PDF form;but, Online Journal has a really good piece about it entitled”The Planned Collapse of America”,by Peter Chamberlain.
There was a plan,a blueprint for whats coming down now-definitely worth a look,for sure.
Analysis
The planned collapse of America
By Peter Chamberlin_____________________________[Hope this is a linky]
Thanks, Gitchee.
Found the link on google, so I’ll check it out: http://www.onlinejournal.com/a…..2715.shtml
Original study link is at http://www.skilluminati.com/re…..df_format/
In my #124 response to Ian, I left out this supporting link.
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/20847
Icouldn’t resist offering this incredible tidbit from the Online Journal article:
Here David Rockefeller admits media collusion with his one world plans: “We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years.
It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the light of publicity during those years.
But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.
The supra-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” [!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
Rockefeller writes on page 405 of his memoirs: “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (Activists Go Face to Face With Evil As Rockefeller Confronted)______________________________
“The Planned Collapse of America”,Peter Chamberlin,Online Journal