President Obama’s comments regarding the AIG bonuses were welcome, but in the context of recent events, a bit puzzling:
Under these circumstances, it’s hard to understand how derivative traders at AIG warranted any bonuses, much less $165 million in extra pay. How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?
In the last six months, AIG has received substantial sums from the US Treasury. I’ve asked Secretary Geithner to use that leverage and pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole.
If Obama doesn’t like Geithner’s deal, why didn’t he stop it before it went through?
AIG had a dealine of Sunday March 15 to pay out $165 million in bonuses to its Financial Products Division, but that was only a portion of the $450 that they are scheduled to receive this year. Geithner knew about this, so he struck a deal with AIG:
The payments to A.I.G.’s financial products unit are in addition to $121 million in previously scheduled bonuses for the company’s senior executives and 6,400 employees across the sprawling corporation. Mr. Geithner last week pressured A.I.G. to cut the $9.6 million going to the top 50 executives in half and tie the rest to performance.
So Tim Geithner hears that $286 million is due in bonuses to AIG yesterday ($165 for Financial products plus $121 for "senior executives") and he’s "outraged." His "compromise" is to cut out $4.8 million for top executives.
Wow, hell hath no fury.
But the $286 million is only a portion of the $1.2 billion in bonuses that AIG is "contractually obligated" to pay out to its executives this year ($450 billion to Financial Products plus $121.5 in incentive bonuses plus $619 in "retention payments"):
Under a deal reached last week, A.I.G. agreed that the top 50 executives would get half of the $9.6 million they were supposed to get by March 15. The second half of their bonuses would be paid out in two installments in July and in September. To get those payments, Treasury officials said, A.I.G. would have to show that it had made progress toward its goal of selling off business units and repaying the government.
If the President doesn’t like the deal Geithner made, and is now telling Geithner to "pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses," why didn’t he say that before the deal went down and the bonuses were paid out? Did he not know about it?
Which raises the question — when did the administration first become aware of these bonus obligations, and what did they do to address them at the time?
According to the NYT, "The administration official said the Treasury Department did its own legal analysis and concluded that those contracts could not be broken." So according to the Treasury Department, where Geithner still presumably works — nothing can be done about it. It appears the person tasked with finding a solution already knows what the answer is.
AIG got another $30 billion of TARP money at the first of March. Why didn’t the Treasury demand they break the bonus contracts then as a condition of receiving the funds, just like they made the automakers break their union contracts?
How does President Obama feel about Larry Summers’ comments that "We are a country of law. There are contracts. The government cannot just abrogate contracts"? Does that mean the UAW workers get their old contracts back?
How does President Obama feel about the bonus installments that are due in July and September? How does he feel about the $121 million went out to other AIG employees that weren’t in the Financial Services Division? How does he feel about the $1.2 billion that is scheduled to be paid in bonuses in 2009 within a company that lost a hundred billion dollars last year?
Today the President said:
I know he’s working to resolve this matter with the new CEO, Edward Liddy, who came on board after the contracts that led to these bonuses were agreed to last year.
Liddy is the one who said he has to pay these bonuses in order to be able to keep the "best people," and he believes there’s nothing that can be done to get out of the contracts. On that he and Geithner agree. Does the President think these are the best two people to be dealing with this?
Bill Black, Tom Ferguson, Walker Todd and Rob Johnson have a plan for getting out of paying these bonuses: the US government, as 80% owner of AIG, can split the derivatives unit off and put it in bankruptcy. That would terminate all its obligations. Geithner’s hand-picked man Edward Liddy "should be asked to resign at once, for the sake of public confidence and to send a clear signal that gaming the system is unacceptable," not receiving votes of confidence from the White House. Bingo, you’re there. Is the President ready to do that? And why did this not occur to Secretary Geithner and Mr. Summers?
That still leaves all the other AIG bonuses scheduled to be paid out from taxpayer funds this year to deal with. But if President Obama truly does want to stop this, there is no doubt he has both the leverage and the authority to do so. The question is, are he and Geithner and Summers all on the same page?
Related posts:
- Bank Bailout: When a Bonus Exceeds Earnings, How is It Not Fraud?
- The Obama-Geithner Stress Tests: Giving the People What They Want?
- What Will @jahimes Say About Goldman Sachs Record Bonus Payout?
- If Obama Cut a Deal with PhRMA, Why isn’t Billy Tauzin at Town Hall Meetings?
- Democrats in Pay-For-Play Deal With PhRMA?





Spotlight







Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

you know what. it doesn’t matter anymore what this president says with regard to the economy. what he does is an entirely different thing. in issues like stem cell research, gay rights, etc., he may be “progressive”. when it comes to where the money goes, he’s just like the rethugs. screw the auto workers, but kiss up to the corporations.
There’s a lot of stuff in this that I don’t understand, the first and biggest is what the hell these guys do that warrants bonuses of that size. Forget the fuck-up for a minute, and ask the technical question, what exactly do they do when they aren’t fucking up? Because the answer to that question answers the question why they have to be retained presumably to save the government’s 80 percent stake in what appears to be a negative number.
Geithner is from the inside. He presumably knows what these guys do. He has to go on the stand and explain to the American people why what they do is so important that they get to loot the American treasury. Otherwise, as EW said below, he is simply being blackmailed, and the last thing we need is a SecTreas capable of being blackmailed. You want to see blackmail? Go to China. They are holding the biggest fistful of American T-bills. Now that’s blackmail.
So what is it? Are they worth as much as Liddy and Geithner say they are, or are we being blackmailed?
Why did George Bush intervene?
And why didn’t George Bush make sure Paulson & Bernanke were on the correct track and why didn’t George Bush have New York’s Attorney General Eliot Spitzer (and/or Andrew Cuomo) go after these companies early on or near the end of his presidency?
Citizen Hamsher:
I know that this is gunna drive Brother Raven nuts but this is what I’m talkin about now, put Obama’s feet to the fire…this has gotta be man to man defense, get in his shorts and grab ahold!! Now is the time to isolate the Blue Dogs and “New” Democrats and let Pelosi and the progressive caucus ram new bankin and bankruptcy laws through Congress and initiate special prosecutor legislation for everything (torure, treason, 9/11 etc) including RICO prosecutions in the bailout mess.
Time to call ‘em out or they’re gunna bleed us dry!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION…NO MORE MR NICE GUY!!!
Key question for me on delaying or prohibiting the payment of AIG bonuses:
Did the AIG London office know that they were underpricing the risk premiums for credit default swaps?
If they created and sold–and got their commissions and bonuses–on instruments they had deliberately underpriced, then it is fraud–and the bonuses should be clawed back.
(In other words, if they deliberately goosed up the sales of credit default swaps by making the price low to draw in buyers, leaving AIG holding the bag–that would be fraud)
Intent issues are hard to show, but I think that is a lever that can be used against the bonus payments.
I don’t give a fuck. March madness for me, all this bullshit will be here in 3 weeks.
Why didn’t George Bush come down with an iron fist when Henry Paulson drew up the plans to give AIG $180 BILLION and then when AIG paid Goldman Sachs money to save it (for Henry Paulson of course), where the hell was George!
Oh wait. After 2 months in office, President Obama is responsible for every decision ever made from the White House starting in the late 1770’s and after his term is up, will be blamed for all decisions thereafter.
Nevermind!
I forget: THE CONSERVADEMS ARE BIG AND STRONG AND WANT TO IMPRESS THE NEOCONS WHO WORSHIP RUSH LIMBAUGH, who is also blaming President Obama and wants him to fail.
Where’s that jerk from Daily Kos who jumped in here Saturday with his “Obamabots” and all that shit?
Citizen Raven:
Might be the best overall tournament in 30 years…I’m lookin at a whole lotta 1st and 2nd round upsets…this is the year that the Big Ten has gotta show us sumpthin’ other than speed to the exits.
The conventional wisdom seems to be that the Illini will fall to the Hilltoppers most rickey tic. Where’s Da Kine?
Change we can believe in seems to be the joke of the day on we the unclean masses. It is obvious that whether running for office or once in office, what one says as opposed to what one does is still the order of the day. it would be beyond belief to think that neither Obama nor Geithner didn’t know about these bonuses, but rather than inflame a market already severely under pressure, waited until the NY Times broke the story.
This dog and pony show reminds me of that wonderful scene from the movie Casablanca where the prefect of police states to Rick ” I am shocked, absolutely shocked that gambling has been going on here”, while being handed off 20,000 francs of his previous winnings.
Hopefully we the unclean will finally come to grips with the reality of what we all face when it comes to a government that is bought and paid for by both corporations as well as Wall Street bankers. Absolute power does in fact corrupt absolutely.
Good to see that Feingold has made a statement.
Snip:
“I would like to know what legal options have been explored for canceling the bonuses or recouping the money from the recipients, and in particular whether the Administration has considered holding AIG executives accountable in court for any breaches of their fiduciary duties to the shareholders.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29712662/
OT but how ’bout them Hilltoppers? :})
From a Guardian UK story from last month:
and
Okay Conservadems! Here’s your chant:
“We hate ourselves, we hate ourselves, rah rah rah! We hate our Party and want the Neocons to succeed! Rah rah rah! President Obama’s feet to the fire and no letting up! We will impeach him! Impeach him! Impeach him! And will make sure to hug Rush Limbaugh as we do!”
Have fun.
Speak of the devil and he shall appear.
Hey, if we can forgive AT&T et al retroactively, then we can unforgive AIG retroactively. There is also a little thing called “good faith”. That’s a pretty foreign concept in these times, I know. I think there’s been a major breach of faith in all those contracts rendering them all invalid, law or no law. IANAL, just a pissed off citizen.
Ain’t you a WKU guy?
What I want to know is why President Obama wasn’t wrapped in a US flag today, wearing his US flag pin with his bible stuck to his face, and why he wasn’t thanking the republican party for all they do? Huh? Why didn’t he do that! For crying out loud man, you hate us and are WORSE THAN GEORGE BUSH EVER WAS! At least George Bush did nothing to stop the financial avalanche! Oh, but you. You want to. Shame on you!!!!
Me likeee the way you think up there.
Amen to that, unfortunately.
It appears that NYS AG Cuomo is taking off his gloves in his AIG investigation
http://www.thealbanyproject.co…..aryId=6014
you go girl!!!
AIG Credit Default Swap Mastermind Joe Cassano of London (Life in London is Bittersweet) rec’d a million a month for years as a consulting fee (b/c he is the brains behind the AIG CDS operation). Now he’s lawyered up and not taking calls.
Will he get his bonus, too? The guy’s a genius.
Most assuredly. Spent a number of fun years there back in the day and lived to tell about it.
According to the conservadems, President Obama personally handed out the AIG bonuses with a big shit eating grin on his face. Is this true?
It’s 4:28 EST. What’s the buzz, anything yet?
Oh, there’s the answer on msnbc: subpoenas being issued as we speak. No info arrived…shocker.
Notice that tie?
It’s the “selling a narrative you don’t believe” tie, put to good use by the Obama admin’s spokesperson.
Funny how, as has been pointed out before, Obama’s outrage over the AIG bonuses seems to come only after a lot of squeaking in his direction by the unhappy rabble. More of his conflict avoidance impulse?
How exactly is the Obama administration doing anything differently from the Bush government with regard to the banking problem? I don’t see anything different, just wall street cronies working inside the administration to give tax dollars to banker barons that ruined things.
Obama either is really doing too much at once or he’s completely snowed by his economic team into thinking there is only one thing to do.
MSNBC is now reporting that Cuomo is issueing supenas
have any of you pups worked in sales? I mean, who in the heck gets a bonus if your company goes under? even if you made your quota??? It just doesn’t happen.
LOL Well, I have a very hard time when the wrong person is being blamed for the fire while the real fire starter is running away from the scene with the empty gas can. I mean, really, this is insane. While some are dickering and picking apart the President, AIG is handing out bonuses and then not giving out the names of the people who got these bonuses (just checked and have not read that AIG is complying with Cuomo or not). Burns my ass.
You do understand that George Bush is no longer President, he can’t do anything, this is Timothy Geithner’s deal, and that they’re in charge going forward?
15 – well, we have been getting the UK to agree to extradite all kinds of people to the US, even with our known torture programs. Maybe we out to offer up extradition for AIG execs.
13 – Feingold has a good issue – the fiduciary breaches are a good toehold.
So, when will the conservadems frogmarch President Obama out of the White House while blaming him for the financial orgy of the last 3 decades? Huh? When’s that gonna happen?
thanks dude.
Don’t ya just love all the crying over spilt milk? How come they don’t catch this crap before it happens??? No one is minding the store cuz they put the foxes in charge of the henhouse.
Well, I don’t remember you stringing George Bush’s ass to the clotheslines last year, Jane?
He oversaw this mess for 8 years and did nothing, but then again, I’m sure the conservadems were thankful when Cheney came out yesterday stating he and George had nothing to do with any of it and it’s all President Obama’s fault.
Nevermind.
Oh wait. George Bush wore his flagpin, was wrapped in a US flag, and wore his bible stuck to his face, so it was okay George Bush did nothing but wreck the country for 8 years.
This is just not true. The American Recovery And Reinvestment Act, which restricted executive compensation for TARP recipients (written so as to allow these payments to go through), was passed in Feburary of this year and signed into law by President Obama. George Bush had nothing to do with it.
Facts are stubborn things.
Or Obama is an inside player, bullshitting us while fully aware of everything Geithner and Co are doing to feed the Illuminati buckets of payola. Or something.
Really helpful, thank you.
Million dollar “retention” bonuses????
Simple. Fire the sorry fucks.
No retention, no bonus, no problem
slow learner here.
if exec compensation is “restricted” how did these payments go through?
I remember reading something about it but up is down and I’m dizzy.
I wish I had worked for AIG. They really take care of their employees. Thru thick and thin.
I’ve got an idea. How about when the list of AIG names comes out, we should send them a ‘Thinking of You’ card and see if we can’t get them to help us blame President Obama for them getting bonuses? We can’t get their bonuses back, but surely, we could make friends with them.
“So Tim Geithner hears that $286 million is due in bonuses to AIG yesterday ($165 for Financial products plus $121 for “senior executives”) and he’s “outraged.” His “compromise” is to cut out $4.8 million for top executives.”
This is just awful. How are these AIG execs supposed to live on that?
Grrrrrrr……
That’s unfair.
Jane was blasting W, long before it was cool.
The GOP is out of power, so all the lobbyist money (and that’s the real problem) is flowing to blue dog Democrats. That’s where the battle lines are and that’s where we have to fight.
The bailouts went into effect last year, but the economic stimulus package that you mentioned was signed into law this year by President Obama.
And why aren’t we protesting the TARP recipients in mass droves? Oh wait. It’s much easier to blame one guy for the whole mess. Much cinchier.
Lobbyists changing horses: Don’t It Make My Brown Dogs Blue?
Most of America hasn’t see all these new numbers, they’re still at work on a Monday news cycle. About every hour or so a new higher set of numbers come out, gonna be a LOT of very pissed people later on.
And that was for the 2nd part of the money, right?
two points. first, i want fraud investigations, not just holds on executive bonuses.
from yves at naked capitalism: Wiliam Black Savages Treasury’s Conduct on AIG
second, trillion dollar heist is in play. the aig bonuses may be a bright shiny object:
from yves at naked capitalism: Now It’s Official; Public Private Partnership to Overpay for Toxic Bank Assets
and bernhard from MoA: A New ‘Paulson Plan’
Hey KayIM, I hear your rage and I share it, believe me. I want to continue to believe in Obama’s ability and/or desire to hold these crooks in check. I am alarmed at his choice of Timothy Geitner (I’m a late bloomer and didn’t know much about him) but now I am aghast.
My rage is directed at Paulson, Geithner and the hole in the wall street gang.
Cuomo is one of the few individuals who’s actually asking grownup questions. He needs loud support. Maybe that will serve to shame a few more into the chorus.
have you noticed that the people who obama has appointed to take care of the finances of the u.s. at a time of economic disaster are the same people who created the disaster?
and have you noticed that they are continuing the disaster?
and have you noticed that obama while still campaigning was up on capitol hill beating the bushes to get the oversightless bailout passed?
i voted for the guy both in the primaries and the general.
however, he is doing us no favors in the economic arena.
did you notice that he voted for fisa, which severely impinges on people’s ability to organize for justice and fairness in our government?
did you notice that he’s not against torture?
have you noticed that our economy as well as many other factors have placed our democracy in the worst jeopardy it’s been in the 66 years since i’ve been around on the planet? are you paying attention? or are democracy and justice just not important to you?
What i don’t understand is if taxpayers bailout a company, which stopped AIG from “going under”, how can they say that their contracts are legally to be paid? If our money was not used to bail them out, what money would they have for the bonuses? Does that not make us the ones in control of the contractual terms? I do not understand how this all works entirely but i do understand when someone is FIng us over.
I have three questions for the FDL legal team:
1) I read that the bonuses for the execs for sound and profitable subsidiaries of AIG, that were selling real insurance policies, and that are still profitable, had their bonuses cut, so these whopper bonuses could be paid to the shifty outfit. If that is true, why no legal ramifications for those execs who got smaller bonuses, who are arguably more deserving. What are the legal differences between the small London AIG group that caused all the problems, and the much more safe and sane parts of the company?
2) Why is AIG floating contradictory stories about the bonuses. One line is that the contracts made them do it. The other is that they need to retain the best and the brightest. Well, which is it?
3) One story floating around is that altering the bonus provisions of contracts would lead to all sorts of dire results in contract and employment law land. The company would be technically in default to some pissed workers who would have some kind of legal standing, so the company is technically in default to all creditors(???). All sorts of parties world would swoop in and seize parts of AIG. Why does that legal logic not hold for the contract that are proposed to be altered for the auto manufacturers? Why would not alterint the contracts of workers, bondholders and other creditors not trigger the same disaster?
Yours sincerely,
legally confused in working stiff(ed) land.
why didn’t George Bush have New York’s Attorney General Eliot Spitzer (and/or Andrew Cuomo) go after these companies early on or near the end of his presidency?
Wasn’t Eliot long gone by the end of His Presidency?
I think one reason the F word isn’t used, if I may offer an opinion, is because it is more easily stuck on individuals, like Madoff and Stanford. If the F word is applied to wholesale companies such as AIG Goldman Lehman etc then it reveals that the whole damn system is corrupt beyond repair, then everyone freaks out even more and the thing tumbles down quicker than it already is.
It’s like having AIDS but calling it a cold sore. Measures can be taken, but the lies serve to keep everyone from running out of the room.
Fixed it for ya
In fact we did say a lot at http://firedoglake.com/2008/12…..arp-funds/”>the time:
If you have a fact based, reasonable argument to offer here it would be most welcome. Saying things that are manifestly untrue suggests there isn’t one.
Well, so far, no one wants to work with Geithner or any of them, because the financial sector is such a mess, no one wants their name attached to it! At the very least, Geithner was raising red flags early on about the housing market and no one cared. He may be a weak looking man, but he knows enough to at least understand what has happened. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX. President Obama said in his last year of campaigning that it could take at LEAST TWO YEARS and Bernanke is now saying we could see huge improvements by the end of this year.
It’s all guessing because no one knows.
Who do you guys think could come in, fix the problem and be out by noontime?
Yes, but he was the NY AG for most of it.
everybody on this blog, except for the occasional troll, was totally expressing disapproval and distaste for bush, the people in his administration and his policies. that is, when they weren’t cursing him out and trying to figure out ways to mitigate the disaster that he was. didn’t you notice?
This might be slightly off-topic, but a I heard Wolf “I’m So Important” Blitzer saber-rattling this afternoon about Russia (bombers in Venezuela) and Iran (maybe unknown uranium-enrichment facilities). What if a major international incident were to blow this (also major) financial news off the front pages? No telling what would fall through the cracks, then. Which is exactly why we need to keep the pressure on. No free passes, no exceptions.
63 for you – reply didn’t stick last time
This is great really- after being on record as being unhappy with executive pay restrictions in the stimulus,” Obama admin. has to take a big hit on appearing powerless to stop another very high profile money grab.
Stuff like this may actually galvanize support for some fraking change. maybe.
I want a recall election.
Time to recall Obama and try someone else. Let’s go with John Edwards. Or Kucinich.
Hell, Ron Paul would be better at this point.
I wouldn’t shoot the messenger here. It’s always a deflating letdown when we place all of our hope in something new, in this case change we can believe in, when year after year and decade after decade we come to realize that on many levels there really isn’t any difference between the Republicans and Democrats when it comes to money and or power. If you have money and power you have access. If your a common every day American voter, your allowed to have your pocket picked by those who control the system.
Well Jane, you’re the one who consistently tears President Obama apart after only being in office for 2 months. I mean, really, Jane, what were you expecting? A quick fix and then Fantasy Land and we all lived happily ever after? Huh? Okay, so you called them the “gang that couldn’t shoot straight”. Big deal.
Hey, if you want to band yourself with Democrats and republicans who want President Obama to fail and be blamed for the last 8 years (and decades) of failed policies and no regulation, then you can. I’m not going to.
ha, good one.
I’m starting to think that no one really wants to fix anything else though, meaning govt and the mess. Like the mess keeps everyone busy and the money flowing into the “right” pockets. Citizens be damned. It’s like the war on drugs. Has it stopped? no, everyone just wants their piece of the action.
Precisely. It is NOT the “or something”.
Further, it is my recollection that FDL was The Authoritative Source on the Scooter Libby trial. While that scandal wasn’t financial, it still dealt with major corruption. (Actually, an argument could be made that destroying a CIA front company and related assets might have had some material financial consequences – and probably did…)
Yep and I did the same thing on my blog.
I’ve really been wondering that too. I think we see a trend.
All of that was happening under George Bush for years, but you’re okay with putting all the blame on President Obama now and questioning his every move?
I find all this talk of contractual obligations to pay the bonuses and honor the CDSs so laughable…just ask homeowners from Katrina what they got paid from their insurance companies, or the people who got dropped by health insurance companies as soon as they submitted a claim.
Are you telling me there is nothing these jerk managers did that would nullify their contracts? I think all the CDSs should be nullified as based on fraudulent assessments.
No, it’s a law. You can read it here. It applies to all TARP recipients.
But I’m not sure what your point is — the money now going out, the money which went to AIG on March 1, is TARP II money. So regardless of who the law applies to, the money that AIG is paying those bonuses with came from a deal that Geithner made, in which he could have killed these bonuses.
It’s a straw man argument to say that anyone anticipates all the problems can be fixed in a couple of months. Nobody expects that, but neither does it excuse poor oversight or a bad deal, and that’s what happened here (unless there are some specifics I’m unaware of, and if you have any, I’m happy to listen).
So would you prefer that everyone here be unquestioning cheerleaders for the folks that Obama has placed in charge of “cleaning up the mess” even though those same individuals were at least partly responsible for creating the mess in the first place?
That would place us on the same level as all the ditto heads who never questioned a thing that Bush did.
For myself, I voted for Obama and hope to christ he can get things done. But I have no problem at all if Jane or anyone else calls BS when his actions are not going to do a damn thing to fix the problems
Tell me something I don’t know.
I was actually being nice.
no one.
but i don’t think summers and geithner have a chance in hell. their history, their current actions, all spell disaster for us and for millions of ordinary people all over the world. i’ve been saying that summers (while at treasury during the clinton administration) helped kill millions of people. that is not hyperbole. i want him out of government – now.
i would like to see more people who i think have a clue – stiglitz more than anyone. also krugman, baker, galbraith, roubini and lots more on the team trying to come up with some real plans. i know the people i’ve listed don’t all agree on the details of what needs to be done, but they are some of the people who might be able to figure it out.
summers and geithner are not just bad news – they are dangerous. obama needs better advisors and we are not helping him by pretending otherwise. we need obama to succeed… for our sake and for the sake of billions of others.
Two months in office and what do you have? Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Bernanke. The four clowns of the apocalypse who CREATED and fostered the current debacle.
We have Obama working hell-bent-for-leather to CONTINUE the “State Secrets” dodge for hiding executive branch criminality.
We have Obama working hell-bent-for-leather to continue illegal detention sans habeas corpus (he just doesn’t use the word “enemy combatants” anymore but he KEEPS the same rules that HE can have ANYONE detained if he deems them a terra-ist).
How many months does it take to NOT do any of these things? Instantaneous would be the answer: never EVER hire a hack that created the current neoliberal wet-dream of profits at the cost of EVERYTHING else, immediately wiping away not only the idea of “enemy combatants” but also clearly rebuking any and all claims that the president is a dictator who gets to point at someone and have them “detained” for whatever the fuck.
How long does it take to actually disavow the claim that the President can whine “State secret! State secret!” in order to cover up a crime committed by same?
No time at all. Obama is a criminal, just like Bush and Cheney. Same policies, different suits, that’s all.
I got an idea – lets worry about “moral hazard” when we talk about people who got duped into taking out usurious mortgages.
Would it not take a lot less tax money to find Fraudulent, unauthorized, illegal or contract breaking behavior then to just doll out money? I’m betting there are many over qualified and now “unemployed” people out there who would die to get paid for that?
Kay, your defense of Timmy G. is wholly without substance. He was the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It was his job to prevent the crisis and he failed completely.
“I want fraud investigations…”
If Cuomo doesn’t wimp out and back down, maybe things will head in that direction. If he makes enough noise, congress can’t very well ignore him. I’d enjoy seeing some subpoenas delivered to the players. For starters.
Name one thing Bush did that Obama is being blamed for here. One single thing.
Seconded.
Thank you for the links. That answered my Qs above. So. What is “exceptional assistance”? Isn’t that covered in any version of the bill with regards to exec compensation?
I agree, and I think its pretty clear that there’s been a fundamental lack of oversight by the president in regards to TARP.. its almost as if he’s sayin’, this is shrub’s program, not mine, and I’m not taking responsibility for it except insofar as it becomes a political inconvenience, as we are making it become now (hopefully). It’s almost as if he washed his hands of it and said, “alright Geithner, do what you want, make your industry buddies happy, but above all, just keep it off my radar screen.. I have bigger fish to fry and this is a distraction”
Why he’d think that is rather inexplicable to me, but I think that the underlying reasoning is probably not far from from something like this. The only “deals” that may have mandated this insanity is something in the back room with Blue Dogs or Dem congresspeople in general.. something to do with the original TARP authorization under shrub’s congress that we’re not privy to, but that seems seems a little speculative and farfetched to me.
What do these two parts mean in the law:
You were? Huh. I hadn’t noticed. Thank you.
I think the White House gamed this in advance. My sense is they really believe they can’t do anything about it, but they’ll take the opportunity for some intense grandstanding against the bonuses.
But they may have underestimated the backlash, which surprises me.
Geithner is out of place — he needs to go.
I’m not ready to put BO in the same category as Cheney.
Barack is a pol. He’ll follow the poll numbers. One way to look at our job is to move the poll numbers, hence the absolute importance of aggressively supporting ACCOUNTABILITY NOW.
at some point reality has a way of catching up with us.
You’re stating in your post above that President Obama is not questioning the actions or inactions of Tim Geithner. I don’t remember (though you may have) anyone saying George Bush was not daily questioning the motives of Paulson, Bernanke, and others.
thanks. that’s good to know. i have not been watching cuomo. sounds like i should have been.
Excellent. You are dead on with the tone here Jane.
The response to the fiscal crisis has been very weak by both Bush and Obama Treasury depts. So, need to criticize them both. I certainly criticized Bush II more than I have Obama so far.
That Bush II was weak on pretty much everything else is beside the point.
The financial crisis must be dealt with effectively, otherwise all other stimulus efforts will be in danger of failing, and Oama administration will be in danger of failing. So, cannot pass on it, no matter who is in charge.
Citizen KayIn Maine:
“…but your ok with putting all the blame on President Obama now and questioning his every move?”
No one is puittin’ “all the blame on President Obama” but the solutions are his problem and letting the financial alpha and omega bombs go off without a fight is NOT an option. Obama is responsible for our country’s response to this crisis and it’s time he stop playin political footsie with the fascists and start kickin some ass and takin some names…if he takes political advantage of this crisis right now and mobilizes Congress as a spearhead for immediate bankruptcy and regulation reform, and I mean RADICAL reform. He will expose the fascists and their paid assassins in the House and Senate and he will have the entire population of the United States standin’ between him and the bastards.
The international fascist power structure and their “banking establishment” run out of 10 Downing Street has got to be called out and if Obama doesn’t do it he deserves all the heat we can bring down on him.
This is not a rational statement… even in context of #58 to which you were replying.
No one here was OK with what Bush was doing.
i had a lot to say about bush doing what he did while he was president.
bush is no longer president.
look again at the items i brought up in my 58. i don’t believe they fall under the category of “questioning his every move” as you state. i perceive use of that kind of all-or-nothing language on your part as a way to try to win an argument rather than a way to discuss the issues. that kind of language trivializes the issues i brought up.
i haven’t “questioned his every move”. what i have done is bring up a number of items that he’s either done or omitted doing that i think are crucial to look at in terms of our democracy. i don’t believe we can afford to sit back and give someone a free pass at this point. i believe our democracy is in grave jeopardy.
i’ve been a progressive all my life or even radical, and given where obama’s campaign money came from (much of it from bankers and wall street) and given that he was urging congress to pass the oversightless bailout and given that he voted for fisa, i didn’t expect a lot.
of course voting for mccain was out of the question.
but now he’s our president and i don’t intend to ignore the things he’s doing that i believe jeopardizes our democracy and justice for our people. or for that matter, given the importance of what america does, the justice of people everywhere.
AFAIK, Geithner is just Larry Summers’ insulation/punching bag. Summers imvho is the guy pulling the strings.
Oh yea, let’s stick to rational statements and facts.
and get the 6,000,000,00 back from CASSANOVA……………g
“It’s a straw man argument to say that anyone anticipates all the problems can be fixed in a couple of months…”
No one in their right mind should expect eight years of wreckage to be cleaned up in a few months. However, I don’t think it’s out of line to be very pissed off that the cleanup crew was dredged out of the same cesspool of brainiacs that created this disaster in the first place. In my mind (such as it is) it seems perfectly reasonable to express frustration and to level criticism about this turn of events. If nothing is said, then we can be absolutely certain nothing will happen. Keeping the pressure on is about the only weapon we’ve got, n’est–ce pas?
Also, I think the forces of reason and justice must get there first with the facts and logic, no matter who is in charge. That is how we can make an impression on the public, which I think should be the most important item on the agenda. Whether it is perceived as being ‘for’ or ‘against’ Obama is of secondary importance.
It may sound cold, but in political terms, Obama is a means not an end. And, unlike Bush II, good facts and argument may force Obama to do better, so I think it is important for people to call them as they see them.
Well then, you should band yourself to the other conservadems who are going to block everything President Obama does from now on. Or maybe you could work hard to impeach him. Wouldn’t that be great…after 8 years of the Bush Regime, President Obama gets impeached for George’s bullshit.
completely agree.
Pakistan, a failed democracy can have huge protests and force the government to concede demands, and America “the greatest democracy” in the world can’t enforce some accountability, or raise a few thousand people to march on washington or wall street.
Sure, I wonder who the patient is and who is coming out of denial first?…
You haven’t missed much, but he is starting to talk tough. Whether it will go anywhere remains to be seen…
That gate swings both ways.
we could start with reinstating glass-steagall. then once we were no longer bleeding profusely, we could try cleaning up and making the patient comfortable.
I’m not saying that Obama is being shrublike here. shrub was a thief and traitor as far as I’m concerned and there’s a far cry from this and his monstrous presidency.
I am, however, saying that for some inexplicable reason (to me at least) Obama appears to have made a serious policy mistake in seeming to wash his hands of TARP. I’m trying to be as charitable as I can toward our new president here, and frankly I’m running out of plausible guesses as to what his gameplan might be.. and I am starting to conclude that, at least on TARP and the financial system, he may not have one yet.
It’s not a quick fix no matter what any of you are thinking.
Kay i love you very much but Obie needs very badly to step up to the plate ,and hit it out of the park…there is becoming a crisis in confidence
greenwarrior @ 105 redirects- on this.
amen
he is smarmy to the max
“…bush is no longer president…”
Wait. I’m confused. Wasn’t Cheney president? No? I stand corrected. (g)
Thanks. Your comment summarizes my confusion and disappointment with the “leadership” in this dept beautifully.
New post: BREAKING: NYAG Cuomo Subpoenas AIG
:)
thirded
new thread re cuomo upstairs…
Can I just say this? I don’t feel a difference in the economy to a year ago and it’s because: NOT ENOUGH TIME HAS TRANSPIRED UNDER NEW LEADERSHIP.
Last winter gas/oil was $4/gallon. Wanna see your state hurt with that kind of charge? Well, here in Maine people suffered. And guess what? Gas/oil prices are low but after everyone lost their businesses due to high fuel costs there are tons of people without jobs now!
President Obama is not the Messiah no matter how hard the neocons try to push that he is. What the hell were you guys expecting? I still see sad faces in my state (though right after the election they were pretty bright, but then life goes back to normal) and I know and they know….it’s going to take some time. But! At least President Obama has put forth a stimulus package for much needed jobs. George Bush did nothing on job creation….except houseing….but as we all know that helped kill our economy because of greed.
lol – well if i’m the one not facing reality i’m counting on you to show it to me. everyone has their own blind spots.
Kay we all assumed George Bush was a crook, so why would he question their motives in any way we cared about? That just isn’t a consistent metaphor.
And I don’t think it accurately reflects the concern of the post. Maybe that’s my fault and I need to be clearer. Obama obviously does not like the details of the deal that Geithner made as of today. Does that mean he didn’t know about it before it happened? I think that’s a fair question.
I’d also like to know what this means about more AIG bonuses that are scheduled to be paid out in the future. I don’t think these are unreasonable questions. We’re progressives, it’s our job to present a coherent progressive critique and evaluation of what’s going on. It doesn’t mean that we don’t support Obama, or Democrats, or people trying to do their jobs under really tough circumstances. But sometimes it’s easier to do the right thing if there are people on the left clearing space for you, and that’s what we try to do. I think it’s important that we continue to do that.
I’m sick and tired of hearing about how wonderful Geithner is or was, when the opposite is true. And this great financial brain just happened to forget about paying his taxes and still get’s the job as financial gate keeper? Thus far we’ve only spoken about AIG. How about the millions paid out to the other players in this financial train wreck. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, BofA and an endless list of others?
Just tying to get my head around these numbers.
from the Guardian story-
$3,560,000,000 for 377 people over 7 years.
Just for fun, everyone got paid the same….
3,560,000,000 / 377 people = 9,442,971 per person
9,442,971 / 7 years = 1,348,996 per person per year
1,348,996 / 52 weeks = 25,942 per person per week
25,942 / 40 hours = $649 per hour*.
How much were those UAW workers supposed to be making again?
*There’s no way to make this true. It’s just to illustrate what you could do with 3.5 billion dollars. And to create a ridiculous, fantastic talking point….
obama may just be getting some really bad advice.
c’est ca.
yes
Fire Geithner and bring in Hugo Fucking Chavez.
-G
that and I really do think that he wants to be able to step back at some point in the future, when AIG, Citi and the rest of the structurally unsound ediface of our financial system comes crashing down on our heads, that TARP wasn’t his idea, blah, blah, blah. My problem is that this isn’t change we can count on, to indulge in cliche. Nr President, we elected you to lead on all the tough issues, not just those you can control.
No one is claiming it is a quick fix or that one is possible.
What we are claiming is the folks that have been placed in charge of attempting ANY fix are probably not the individuals that would be willing to take the difficult steps necessary since they are all part of the original problem and have shown no indications or abilities to actually change their thinking from the perspective that created the problems in the first place.
A bunch of Wall St insiders who thought they were Masters of the Universe do NOT want to hear that they are in fact idiots and that doing the same things only more of it will NOT fix the problems in the economy.
Otherwise, we wouldn’t have a bunch of deals being made that allows the banksters to duck responsibilities for their actions and allows them to keep their unearned millions because they are “the best and the brightest” who just happened to create the mess.
“obama may just be getting some really bad advice.”
More likely he spends too much time (for a POTUS) reading Hamsher, et al. here, and wishes he played more chess than hoops.
speeeeew>>>>707
Maybe I’m confused, because I know it as AIG received their TARP money under George Bush when the bailout went through. They were paid out of the first half of the money and in that part of it, there was no oversight of executive pay. Before Bush left, he signed over the other half of the TARP money to President Obama for him to use and that is when they added oversight to these bonuses. If I’m not mistaken, AIG already got their money and they are not obligated to NOT pay out bonuses as much as we all hate the idea of it.
Obama & Geithner today appeared to have said, “I don’t give a crap”, and got Cuomo to go after AIG to block the bonuses (that were already paid out yesterday ON A SUNDAY) and to get the names of the individuals who received these bonuses.
No way in hell Jane will I ever be smarter than you, but man, I just wish you wouldn’t come down on President Obama some days. At least the man is trying which is a far cry of what was done for years with our money. I guess I flew off the handle because I honestly expected everyone here to be ecstatic with what transpired today. Don’t you guys think that the names of these assholes is important? I do. Public humiliation is needed.
Going after President Obama is not going to help as far as I can see. Going after AIG would make more sense in my eyes.
leaving the blame for entire meltdown aside for a moment, there can be no argument that Obama and his economic team are responsible for approving this agreement with AIG. The idea that they couldn’t figure out a way to get the deal done without paying off these bonuses doesn’t pass the smell test. First off all, it would have been very easy to carve out a bankrupcy for AIG Financial Products and keep the rest of the firm solvent. I used to do business with these idiots. They hired a woman who found out she was pregnant a month after she started. The manager would not let her get up to use the bathroom without getting his express permission first. They were upset that she was pregnant and they found a way to force her out of the firm. The Treasury could have figured out a way to force concessions down their collective throats if they really wanted to. Apparently it was not a priority for them. That is inexcusable IMO. If Obama wants to fix the problem rather than put a band aid on it, he should be calling in everyone involved in this for an intimate gathering. He should figure who was responsible and that person should be fired. The next time we’re bailing out a company and the subject of bonus payouts comes up, maybe they’ll be a little more dilligent and creative when it comes to protecting taxpayer money.
Now see, that might be a great idea!
too bad we’re in epu here. this comment could have created a lot of discussion.
that is really hard on the eyes
Some of the FDL post on AIG in the last 2 days:
Letter from AIG Chairman to Geithner
AIG is Teh Funny
AIG Speaks with Forked Tongue
The Semtex in the AIG Retention Contracts
AIG The Bad News Bailout
Exec Who Brought AIG Down Still Living High
So it appears that Jane (and LHP and EW and masaccio) are indeed trying to cover this from all angles.
It’s not fair to dismiss some pretty comprehensive and detailed coverage as “coming down on Obama.” AIG are crooks, it would be like asking theives to police themselves. It’s not going to happen. They need to be restrained and prosecuted. The only people in a position to do that are the folks in the Obama administration. Someone made the point earlier that they have proven capable of being moved by public pressure, which is a good thing, so we’re applying that pressure. They can make this better. That’s all we want.
Blaming AIG directly is good medicine. Going after President Obama for what I think is ridiculous stuff is not.
I agree on the public pressure thing, but I think President Obama would move if we surrounded AIG headquarters. Attacking him or questioning him doesn’t seem to be what is needed right now.
So Obama (and the folks he has appointed – who were involved in the problem creation) are to be held without fault? For that’s what you are seeming to say here.
Obama is the person who appointed Geithner and Summers to their roles. He has allowed Kashkari to remain in his role. Geithner in his previous job as head of the NYFRB, helped to create the problem.
Jane is pointing out to President Obama that the individuals HE appointed to these positions aren’t doing their jobs or are incompetent. Obama is the one in charge who placed the individuals into their positions. Why shouldn’t Obama be held to account for his actions in putting people like Geithner in positions like Treasury secretary when Geithner participated in the initial screw ups?
I found this hilarious list of posts, from 2 years ago (so before the present crisis) about AIG, both as an employer and service company:
http://www.indeed.com/forum/cm…..king/t4585
All through my career in finance (and no, I never worked for AIG), AIG had an industry-wide reputation as one of the worst employers in the world, for junior staff all the way up to execs. I remember a friend telling me that, back in the big bad Greenberg days, when Greenberg, Greenberg fils, and other family members visited, all employees were expected to move obsequiously to the sides of the lobby and look away and all elevators were frozen so that no lowly servitors would cloud the sight of the great seigneur. All in all, a hideous excuse for a company.
No, they should not be held without fault, but after 8 years of George Bush crimes, you’re going to go after President Obama after 2 months with the same force when it hasn’t been enough time to make a difference?
Jees.
How can I put this? Obama is in a hole as a result of using Geithner as his tool for this job. It’s not going to get better until Obama starts using a different tool, one more suited for the job. Now, I can hope that this shiny new Cuomo tool pans out, but at the same time I have no problem letting Obama know I think the Geithner tool was a foolish pick. And don’t see the downside of saying so in public. Time’s a-wastin’.
When Obama is making the same people who helped cause the problem in charge of “fixing” the problem?
Yes, I will support hollering loudly and longly about what a stupid move he is making and WHY it is a stupid move.
Which is pretty much what has been happening here.
Geithner is too wired into the Wall St mentality that they are all Masters of the Universe to be able to step back and say “Wait a minute; these Masters of the Universe created this mess so maybe I shouldn’t be catering to them and should think about the people who pay my salary and THEIR best interests.”
Do you see Geithner doing anything other than catering to Wall St at the expense of the taxpayer? Since Obama appointed him, doesn’t Obama deserve at least a fair portion of the blame?
Agreed. And I would go as far as to say that there are three possibilities here (more than one may hold true): 1) Geithner’s too close to Wall Street and conflicted, and therefore failing to act in best interest of the country, 2) Geithner’s bound by secret deals in Congress or somewhere else that he is unable to disclose, or 3) Geithner has a real and credible plan and has failed to explain it. So either he’s doing a lousy job or he’s a lousy communicator. Either way, he should resign (and I say this as somebody who was actually willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when he was first named).
or maybe geithner doesn’t see the “best interest of the country” in the same way we do?
sorry, i’ve been following your rants against ‘conservadems’ and they’re no longer making sense.
Jane is right. AIG cannot access taxpayer dollars unless someone in the Obama administration lets them. Obama is not the anti christ but he’s not the lord our god either. He’s only human. He can make mistakes but he can also learn and adjust to new information. Hopefully he will do less of the former and more of the latter.
The TARP money was agreed on by both republicans & Democrats last year when Geithner was not in charge nor was Obama president. It’s only been two months and from what I can tell, no one knows exactly what the correct next move is. So far, we’ve got two bailout bills, the auto bailout bill, the economic stimulus package, and President Obama’s budget to deal with. And you think the results should be seen by now and there are much better people out there to handle this? I have no idea if that’s true, but my rational mind tells me that this is not an easy fix, you’ve got to go at it like a cop goes after a drug dealer by using other drug dealers, and because it’s such a tangled greedy mess, you have to trust President Obama more than you ever would Dick Cheney or George Bush, because neither gave a shit about the economy and one is now saying it’s all President Obama’s fault that things are so messed up. Bullshit.
Oh I’m sorry. What are you confused about? Or are you a conservadem and you don’t like what I’m saying?
I like it.
you seem to have a problem with people questioning obama’s decisions after he became president. if not acting like a dittohead and not hailing obama as the messiah (though i voted for him) equates being a ‘conservadem’, yes, i’d be happy to be called that.
following your argument to its logical conclusion, we ought to wait another eight years before criticising this government’s policies. those are my tax dollars as much as they are yours. so stop telling me how i should respond to how they are being spent.
also please, go back and read the archives here before questioning what the regular writers here had to say about the previous administration. you accuse jane of being critical of obama. i really don’t see the problem with that, though i donated more money to his campaign that i’ve donated to anyone else.
Conservadems are very sympathetic to the republicans and go after the Democrats instead because it’s easier. Makes them feel tough. Going after George Bush was not on their list of things to do according to the conservadems, but now that President Obama is at the helm and to show their toughness NOW, they’re going to go after him every step of the way! It’s pathetic.
But I thought it was critical to keep AIG Financial Services alive as it’s the global central hub for essentially all of the CDS leverage — if they acknowledge bankruptcy, then all hell immediately breaks loose everywhere at once. And because the people who work there know that we know this, they think they can get away with the bonus thing.
Obama is playing to his important base in Maine, clearly.
The Obama admin watched the original TARP funds go out with no oversight so what happens in TARP II? Pretty much the same thing.
Geithner helped to create the mess as Chair of the NY FRB. He may not have been officially in charge, but he had to know what was going on. If he didn’t know what was going on, then that makes him pretty much incompetent to be Treasury Secretary.
I have in no way claimed that results should be visible at this point. No one here has made that claim other than you throwing it up as a straw argument. What I (and others) have said many times, is that nothing being done by the Treasury or anyone involved in a position of authority has shown a willingness to do anything other than bail out the Banksters at cost to the tax payers. Unions have to have their contracts abrogated, why can’t the folks at AIG be forced to negotiate? Why does the Treasury refuse to name the banks receiving money? Why have they fought so hard to avoid identifying the counter-parties receiving the AIG bailout funds? What are they hiding?
And all of that has nothing to do with the end results that are needed. It has to do with the lack of opacity in the process, the same lack of opacity that was evident with the previous administration with the same Bull Shit arguments to justify things being hidden.
and you conclude that everyone who criticises obama is ideologically closer to the republicans? doesn’t make sense.
That’s some bullshit there pal.
First off, I was a Kucinich supporter until he dropped out and told his supporters to support Obama. It took me a while to jump on the bandwagon, but I did eventually. That said, it’s only been two months and what are the conservadems doing now? They’re going to block President Obama along with the republicans! Nice huh? How the hell are we as a nation going to get anything done if the WATB Democrats are going to band with the republicans against the President when these same assholes (not all but some) had no problem giving George Bush a TRILLION for the Iraq occupation, tax cuts to the wealthy, did zero oversight on any level of government nor Wall Street, and brought our nation’s debt close to $12 trillion? huh? How?
Before the election and after, there were lots of critical posts about Obama. Trust me on this. Two months into Obama’s term and some are giving up. It’s just ridiculous. None of this mess is his fault. It’s too large for anyone to handle and I’m sure George Bush knew that the next president would get the biggest shit pile of their life to handle. Hell, the idea to replace the Marine One fleet happened under George Bush too. I guess adding as much debt before the big escape was part of his plan.
When they’re saying the same thing, yes, I stack them as being the same. Here’s Rachel Maddow explaining what a conservadem is:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21…..2#29668122
Let me guess….you’re here from Americablog. [Edited by mod]
your fundamental premise is different from mine. you think the lieberman groupies are trying to undermine obama. i thought so too.
last week obama said himself: “i’m a New Democrat.” yeah, he’s one of them – the blue dogs – not one of us.
FISA, his stance on torture, his appointments, the fact that he was okay with GM arm-twisting the auto unions, but his refusal to hold AIG accountable, his willingness to strike down the cap on exec compensation, all point to the same thing.
who should run the show? i’m thinking kuchinich or even ron paul. or maybe obama, but he should stop talking about ‘change’ and just talk about ’status quo’.
It all depends on how a bankruptcy is handled. If it is uncontrolled then yes it could be messy but as it is we have an uncontrolled backing of the AIG financial products division which is proving endlessly expensive. In part I was being facetious but the whole way AIG is being managed needs to be rethought and redone. We need to set conditions. The rest of AIG is off the table. Naked CDSs will not be honored. Equity backed CDSs will be honored, as needed (not in advance of any problem as now), and with a haircut. We replace the AIGFP staff. We ban bonuses until the bankruptcy is done. There are lost of ways we can tell the rest of the financial community that we will work a deal but we are not going to be stupid chumps about it.
I think some of us are having trouble differentiating between “holding his feet to the fire” and crap like what was posted here Saturday:
A commenter on another blog said something akin to this: If congress can retroactively immunize the Telecoms from prosecution for violating our 4th amendment rights and helping the government to spy on us, then congress can EASILY retroactively break AIG’s contracts that provide obscene bonuses to the incompetent financial big shots who’ve devastated our economy.
Let’s hope there’s a republican landslide in 2010! That would be great, huh? Should be easy to do when the conservadems who have given up on Obama in 2 months when everyone knows the economy turnaround is going to take a year or more possibly longer than that.
Has he tortured anyone? Has he asked the large telephone companies to spy on Americans? Are his appointments uneducated in the position they’ve been given or appointed to or are they just his best buddies from high school? Has he said ’screw off’ to habeas corpus? Has he tried to disband the Unions by understaffing the NLRB?
I mean, really, your arguments are very weak to me. I could see if we were having this conversation in the last year of Obama’s first term, but we’re not. We’re having it at the 2 month mark.
No matter what you say, President Obama is not George Bush. Two different animals.
Stuff like that was posted by liberals before the election, after the election and on the day of his Inauguration!
I don’t remember George Bush being blamed for the recession (with a surplus!) he was given in 2001. Hell, I don’t think he cared about it and then when Enron collapsed he did nothing to regulate that kind of crap.
Eight years of not caring (except for the Iraq occupation! It’s all he talked about!) has put our nation into a spin and who is getting blamed for it after 2 months of being in office? President Obama.
i just watched your link to rachel maddow explaining her definition of a conservadem. it’s a conservative democrat. the people who hang out on this blog are progressive democrats, so you are using her definition in a way that she didn’t.
Hmmm writes:
“But I thought it was critical to keep AIG Financial Services alive as it’s the global central hub for essentially all of the CDS leverage — if they acknowledge bankruptcy, then all hell immediately breaks loose everywhere at once. And because the people who work there know that we know this, they think they can get away with the bonus thing.”
If that’s the problem, then we really do need some new blood in the Treasury. Understand, AIG Financial Products is a wholly owned subsidiary of AIG. Whatever role they may play as the “central hub for all the CDS leverage”, derives from their access to AIG’s balance sheet. AIG could simply disband the unit, take their positions over and cut their employees loose. In fact, that’s exactly what they should do.
Also, it’s just plain wrong to think that AIG Financial Products is some sort of essential conduit for the CDS market. The market is too big and too global to rely on a single conduit.
Ah, I understand you now. Thanks. BTW, haven’t heard anybody in a position of responsibility float the idea of orphaning the naked CDSes yet, but can’t imagine it’ll be long now.
I’m sorry, I’m having trouble following. In what sense is public criticism of policy and tactical choices equivalent to ‘giving up on’ Obama?
What Rachel was saying is now is not the time to band against the President along with the people who want the President to fail for more reasons than they’re currently stating.
Some of those ‘conservative democrats’ had no problem giving George Bush everything he wanted.
Kay, take a walk or something. It don’t mean nothin.
KayInMaine says,
“What Rachel was saying is now is not the time to band against the President along with the people who want the President to fail…”
Will you please let me know when Rachel says it’s okay.
“Has he tortured anyone?”
no, but he doesn’t seem to want those who tortured others to be brought to trial. and he’s all for reauthorising an amended Patriot Act.
http://www.counterpunch.org/segura02112008.html
“Has he asked the large telephone companies to spy on Americans?”
no, but when they do, he wants to protect them
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..latio.html
“Are his appointments uneducated in the position they’ve been given or appointed to or are they just his best buddies from high school?”
geithner, summers, look down the list. the same crooks who contributed to this mess. why is there no place for krugman or roubini on his table?
“Has he said ’screw off’ to habeas corpus?”
he’s not sure where he stands on it, nor am i.
http://irregulartimes.com/inde…..us-or-not/
“Has he tried to disband the Unions by understaffing the NLRB?”
GM and their ilk, along with his New Dem buddies are doing it.
the articles on firedoglake would help answer your questions more comprehensively than i can.
i get the feeling, you are no longer interested in a discussion. adios.
KayInMaine:
Your being ‘rational’ makes no sense in our era of being stampeded one day, and herded the next (even though you’re right – except when you forget that elected politicians above the precinct level have made devil’s bargains).
Here’s the statement US Congressman Mike Michaud of Maine sent out today concerning the AIG bonuses:
Hey, you guys can go after me all you want, but in the end, I will never ever ever band with the neocons/conservadems against President Obama when those assholes allowed George Bush to destroy our nation without moving to stop it, okay?
Why don’t you list out all the people in the nation who could easily come in and fix the economy. Thanks.
Not going after you, just hoping — with great respect — that you’ll quit going after folks who disagree with you. Kay, expressing an opinion is different from banding with. Expressing opinions is American. Once in a while, one of my opinions is going to appeal to someone whose general positions I dislike. But just like a stopped clock being right twice a day, that doesn’t necessarily mean much. It sure doesn’t mean I’m in some sort of disloyal cabal with that person against PBO. Think whatever you like about me — dislike me, even — but please at least think twice before making the mistake of lumping me in with those who I consider to be my enemies. Do that kind of stuff and you’ll rile people, and should expect to get comments back.
Hard times for everyone, and sometimes it’s hard to keep the tone civil. I for one am glad you’re here.
Could it be because PBO serves his Hamilton Project mega-contributors (banksters and insurance racketeers), rather than the American people he purports to represent?
[Well, actually, yes…]
i got banned from democratic underground for pointing this out this morning. is obama going to channel his inner condi and suggest that “no one could have predicted…”, especially after the last several years of accounting irregularities.
so, why didn’t he see this coming?
What do you think Obama has done to ’screw the auto workers’?
Did they in fact underprice them?
There’s a lot of allegations flying around here, but not nearly enough facts.
well, it’s not like obama has embraced any of w’s policies on indefinite detention, secrecy, unitary executive, warrantless spying, etc.
Probably classed as ‘bonuses’ to get around the law the same way CDSs were renamed to avoid being regulated as insurance.
However, AIG should have to show the contracts written before the law went into effect before these could be classed as ‘bonuses’.
Accusations are cheap. Who did precisely what (that you think was bad)?
If you don’t have facts behind your emotions, then you’ll just end up sounding like a Republican.
I agree with Kay In Maine.
Have your analyses been reviewed by any economists of note?
You seem to have forgotten about 20 years of Republican power.
Chicago School of Economics
Milton Freidman
Alan Greenspan
Phil Gramm
and others
Your memory needs checked.
I can’t really imagine Bush doing ANY of the things Obama has done.
I could swear I’ve heard Obama, summers, Geithner, Bernanke and Romer all say they’re keeping banks (and AIG) shored up until they can get the toxic assets off their balance sheets with the new public-private partnership TALF program.
When they get the toxic assets out of banks they will have no good reason to not return to normal lending and the private firms (hedge funds mostly, I would guess) will have time to let the housing issue be resolved without it hurting their balance sheets.
I would also guess they’re looking into splitting up Citigroup and AIG, though they haven’t yet said anything about actually ‘busting trusts’.
Is it possible that the real complaint here is that people who want to know what’s going on can’t see it all in real time with live blogging?
Maybe your smell test is wrong or maybe they did have something in there on bonuses but AIG ignored it. If Cuomo gets AIG for violations then it will be up to you to apologize to Obama & team.
Maybe they didn’t want to turn AIGFP to insolvency because maybe it’s NOT insolvent. Ever consider that?
Say it once or twice, but over and over ad infinitum is unfair and doesn’t give them time to actually prove their plans will work.
Besides, it hurts politically when Dems will go for health care reform, financial industry regulation and other things.
That telco immunization hasn’t been tested in the Supreme Court yet.
Arrrgh! Unlike many here, I never expected Obama to be either a leader or particularly progressive…he telegraphed clearly that he would be a centrist with Reagan overtones in the style department. So here he is, leading from the rear of the pack of the chorus of public criticism on AIG. Right now it’s a risk-free strategy for him, but if he continues in this mode much longer there will be a political price to pay.
Whether we talk about AIG or other pieces of the great steaming pile of economic malfeasance, the Obama administration’s actions have been timid and unimaginative, to put it charitably.
Very late, but just wanted to say that Jane kicked ass on ABC with Jonathan Karl. You were incredible in the clip I just watched.
Remember everyone! After Enron collapsed it was not George Bush’s fault that he didn’t clamp down on this sort of thing. Nope! It’s President Obama’s fault. See? /s