If you look at long term unemployment, the recession of the mid 1970′s had an interesting feature: some jobs never came back. The economy down shifted to a state of higher structural unemployment. This sort of thing should, in neo-classical theory, result in an immediate reduction in wages until unemployment reaches equilibrium. This, did not happen. Instead the jobs that were lost in that recession never came back, and with it was broken the relationship between profitability and wages. Workers were more productive, but did not see any of this in their pay envelopes.
About two years ago, it was obvious that there was too much leverage in bad debt, however the stomach for a remedy wasn’t there under Bush, and now the size of that remedy is astronomical. There are, in all probability more than $4 trillion in bad assets, many of which are toxic—that is, the best that can happen is that they expire worthless. Hence, hokey pokey on bank plans on the road to japanification, and what Roubini calls "ZIRP"—or Zero Interest Rate Policy.
What is slowly filtering into the consciousness of the punditocracy, is that this downturn may well be the same: a permanent reduction in the demand for labor versus the people who want jobs. Bad news, of course, is not in short supply. Last week we got a drop in productivity, and a jobs report which can only be described as a "massacre." Retail sales probably fell. Even "Dr. Doom" has revised his economic numbers downward.
But what really worries people comes from a few simple questions. The first is the intractability of the credit crisis. Basically, matters have to get worse, because no one is willing to accept taking the kind of haircut—as economists put it—that comes with fixing it. The second, however, is productivity. This is because anything you want to do, from health care, to more bank fixes, has to come out of someplace. That means employing more people who make more things.
One can quibble with the true utility of productivity, that is GDP per worker hour, but if the question is how much can be produced to give to people who have deferred consumption then productivity is the measure. You know, stuff we are going to sell to Arabs and Chinese workers who put off consuming now, so they could consume later. Every act of borrowing is a bet you can pay off with tomorrow’s cheaper dollars, or tomorrow’s more productive labor. The borrower, however, merely needs to do better, so it is possible for a win/win. However, it is also possible for a lose/win, or a lose/lose. Right now, that last case keeps staring us in the face.
If productivity is falling, however, that means fewer people will be hired, because the least valuable people are already being hired. Economists like to smooth out bouncy noise like this, to find the long-term trend. However, noise is often data. What this chart has in its data is several important points. One is that in the era when the American economy took bigger risks, that is, had quarters with large falls in productivity, it had bigger large gains, and higher average productivity. Then came a period with large falls, and the resolution—the Thatcher-Reagan era—was to use credit to smooth out the economy. This meant fewer big falls, but less average productivity than the golden age of liberalism.
The second point is that productivity comes in waves: big peaks signal that even ordinary quarters will rise. One can mathematically trace suspension bridges between the big peaks. That the little peaks are falling, tends to mean that productivity is going to keep falling. This is really bad, because for a period of economic uncertainty to end, there needs to be the expectation that there is money to be made. There needs to be, in a phrase, rising productivity. "Quantitative Easing" can’t produce productivity, it can only monetize government backing of debt, which, as we’ve seen, has to come out of someone’s wallet someplace, and the people with bottomless wallets aren’t interested in having a hole put in the bottom of them.
Right now, Obama’s economic team is banging their head against a catch-22: Until there is private money coming in, credit can’t be restored. Until there is rising productivity, private money has every reason to sit on the sidelines and by bonds to pay off eventual tax increases. Until credit is restored, there is no chance of rising productivity. And so it goes. It’s like waiting for Godot’s recovery.
I keep getting asked for a solution. That solution is simple—it’s just painful. There isn’t enough oil-based production left to pay back what has been borrowed. We are like people who took out a 30-year loan to buy a car, and then wrecked it after 10 years. We still owe 20 years of payments on a wrecked car. That means that claims on future oil have to be removed. It also means that we have to have things people want that fit within the production that can be done in the future. This isn’t windmills, it isn’t "green jobs" in the sense of green supply. This is because we aren’t facing a shock of energy supply, we are facing a shock of credit supply. What is needed then, is not green supply, but green demand, which will then generate green supply. In other words, find things people want with green production, and then draw them in.
This isn’t as strange as it sounds. In 1900, there was not automobile infrastructure. People who had the money for cars didn’t want the things that cars could get them. It wasn’t until people who did not have access to the luxury world of that time started getting cars, that what cars could bring people became obvious. The same can be said for steam engines, which existed for long before they revolutionized the economy. Steam entered the world in the 1760′s. But trains didn’t take over for a long time, and steam didn’t replace sail until almost a century after James Watt’s innovation.
Green demand then, is the problem. Find green demand, and people will devise ways of supplying it. But they have to be paid in money that more easily lets them buy other things of green demand, rather than oil money. The problem now is that the things that we supply that are green, such as education, are used to buy things that are black. We can’t launder green demand into black demand and have anything work.
But the people who have grease wealth, and the people who make them, and most especially the people who make the jet fighters who defend those goods, and the people who have a right to turn green demand into grease consumption, aren’t quite ready to go yet. So, that means we need another few quarters of pain before the Mitch McConnell’s of this world realize they have to work with the consensus for success—or they will get dragged down with everyone’s failure.



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Thanks Stirling.
Of course, another piece of all this is that the US economy has been showing increases in productivity for years with no corresponding increases in income/wages for the workers being more productive. Seems to me that at a certain point the idea of “why the f*ck am I beating my head against this wall for no gain?” and so we get a drop in productivity.
Or I might be an idiot and not understand things.
And the punditocracy simply CAN’T look to the American Worker for increased productivity. We’ve increased our productivity PHENOMENALLY in the last thirty years, and both adults in the standard household are now working.
Frankly, American workers are EXHAUSTED, and TAPPED OUT. We work harder and are more productive than anyone in the world, and we get MUCH less for it than our Western counterparts. In vacation time and health care benefits we lag far behind other Western nations (I’m being careful not to say “Europe” here both because the word frightens wingnuts but also because Canada hands us our asses in this category too).
The workers have done OUR part to help America – and our thanks has been to be ripped off for thirty years, blamed with the big ponzi schemes collapse, kicked out of our jobs, and had our retirements destroyed.
The end result is going to be a long, stagnant depression, with the pundits and the ultra wealthy living in denial at our expense.
Aren’t there simply too many people on the planet and too few necessary/honest occupations for us all?
A little while ago, I wrote in an answer to a comment at my diary that Detroit has been building what people wanted. They wanted it until the price of gas went sky high, at least. Nearly every manufacturer’s vehicles got bigger in the U.S. market, including Toyota and Honda. Green isn’t necessarily what sells. You’re right there.
One thing that’s distorted the productivity figures in the last couple of decades is that Americans have been having to work longer for the same pay. I suspect this isn’t happening as much now. Whether that affects your thinking here, I’m not sure.
Stirling, thanks for another instructive post. I’m an econo-ignoramus, so please excuse the following question’s probable “duh” factor….
Would demand for carbon-neutral energy sources be one form of green demand, and would demand for food and other products derived from such energy sources be another form of green demand?
basically the money that used to go to pay workers more has gone to pay rich people here and abroad since then. Because, obviously, rich people would have no incentive to be rich if they can’t get richer. But more deeply: we weren’t coming up with new goods and services fast enough to keep people happy. So old jobs went to cheaper places, and we spent more time trying to play casino games with each other.
Until we come up with new goods and services that people want, and we can monetize, we are stuck here.
Lower carbon sources of energy are green supply. But which ones? How? Unless someone is willing to pay for them, it means less to pay back the money owed. More important than green supply is green demand. Not “let’s build windmills” but “let’s find things people want that are green in their nature,” or “let’s build communities that people like more than SUVurbia.”
I don’t think so. Humans create resources.
Here’s an example of why: I either know, or could learn how, to make everything that goes into this computer that I’m typing this on. Could I actually accomplish that task? Not a chance. Building the hardware and software that make up this computer took, literally, tens of thousands of people. It took the knowledge stored in thousands of minds. I couldn’t build this thing from the raw materials if I had a lifetime.
It took research by hundreds of scientists and others to create the underlying physical and chemical knowledge. These people are special people who only come along rarely. All other things being equal, more humans means the potential for more such minds.
While there’s probably some limit to how many humans can live well in this ecosphere, it’s also true that larger populations also make things possible that wouldn’t be otherwise.
Since productivity is GDP/hour worked, one worker having to work more doesn’t change things, unless, of course, working longer means less efficient labor. There are lots of problems with Productivity as a measure, but it is the correct one here. To change the basic direction of productivity, one needs to change what people are willing to pay for (GDP).
Im sorry – still confused. I think that your supporting points for the ultimate thesis – things are getting worse (no prob, got that) – still use a lot of terminology assumed to be understood by your reader. Unfortunately, that isn’t true for this reader, at least.
For example, in your last graph, “grease wealth?” Does that just mean non-green wealth? I don’t see a definition for it in the piece.
I get your analogy about green demand and demand for cars.
So are you saying the public needs more info about the benefits of green supply?
thank you stirling! On a related theme, my mom & i were talking this morning about the tendency of a lot of people to look down on people who actually produce, or do things with their hands. Our conversation was triggered by an online news headline saying 700 people applied for a janitorial job opening at an Ohio school. I know personally, as a skilled worker, i am making ONE dollar an hour more than i was 21 years ago. If prices were still stuck at 1988 levels i wouldn’t mind so much. Plus i’ve spend a lot on schooling, software, computers, to keep current with my graphic arts trade. grrrr, harumph!
It is an off handed way of saying wealth that has value in the context of an oil based economy. With the amount of cheap oil ebbing, and the effects of global warming growing, that means there is going to be less, not more, value in the future for everything that needs oil to run or have value.
I’m saying that the key piece missing is to look at green as a demand problem, not a supply problem. Find things people want that are green, create incentives to buy green things, and the incentive will exist to supply those needs.
Example: conservation is the best green technology right now. Save one commuting day out of 10 for Americans, and you have cut the oil consumption. Consider that in many cities, the 5% of farthest commuters have to go more than 100 miles on average. (http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/09/25/reducing.work.commutes.not.easy.some.cities.study.suggests) Smart commuting also helps as the Cartel system being tested shows. What’s in it for the consumer? More leisure time, less fuel cost, more productive work hours.
So what we need are green goods that are more compelling, and a legal sytem which encourages people to select green goods when the costs are close over the long term.
One example: decriminalizing marijuana would make both the crop greener (with less hot housing) and provide happiness with less inputs. There are problems to marijuana use which can’t be ignored – it is not a completely free ride, but it is the most direct example of Green Demand that is not even on the public radar.
I think that we need to look at what is the appropriate measure of productivity. We may find that on closer examination the conventional wisdom that the US economy functions at or close to the labor and factor productivity efficient frontier is bupkis, which I strongly believe, and we are actually quite a bit below the line. If that’s the case, a lot of what has been sold as productivity “gain” is actually relatively unstructured lateral movement or, at best, movement from some point below the line up toward the line. This introduces a vast element of unpredictability into the whole system. Stagnation in wages (versus factor/unit) is, from my perspective and in my opinion, compelling evidence that what has been passed-off as real productivity gains, aren’t really what they appear to. They’re neither real, nor gains as such. Just more lateral movement below the line, flows between wages and production factors (”oh, I’m really not able to figure how to make things more efficienctly or better so instead I’ll just cut wages…”). This isn’t real productivity growth in any sense of the term. This would suggest that much of what has been passed off as economic “growth” in the US has really been an illusion, and this recession — which is seeing the radical and violent restructuring of entire sectors of the economy — is finally bringing some measure of reality to the mirrors-and-bubbles-reality in which we’ve all lived since Ronnie Raygun destroyed the planet.
This post baffles me for two reasons.
1. Productivity is a consequence, not a cause (for the most part).
2. Why is the focus on green demand? That adds unnecessary complications at this stage of the business cycle. The problem is demand, whether it’s green, blue, black or purple.
As for (1), two primary factors influence productivity, one cyclical and one structural.
The cyclical one works like this: as demand drops, employment decliness with a lag, thus causing falling productivity. The reverse happens in the recovery, when the upswing in hiring lags increases in demand. The cyclical aspect of productivity can be reasonably well guaged with a simple econometric equation. (It’s been too long since I’ve run such a model and I no longer have access to the tools, so I cannot assess the how much of the current behavior is explained by this factor.)
As for the structural part of productivity, it stems from the substitution of capital for labor, meaning that the returns to rising labor productivity accrues to the owners of capital, not to labor. The cause of this behavior is the cost of labor. Thus in the 1960s (and briefly again in the 1990s), labor became so scarce that companies were forced to bid workers away from each other (unemployment rate around 4% is the empirical tipping point), wages rose, making labor expensive, launching the substitution of capital for labor. In both cases, capital was also cheap, reinforcing the trend. Around the 1990s, labor became expensive owing to medical benefits paid by employers, launching another uptrend in productivity.
Q.E.D.
TALF and Toxic Assets clean -up is another 2 trillion dollar Bail-Out of the Hedge-Funds and they will blame the Obama-Biden Adm. !
In my opinion,President Obama must get a new Economic and Financial team, the Geithner-Summers-Bernanke-Orszag-Furman-etc. group is a disaster, and they just added today yet ANOTHER WILMERHALE LAWYER TO THE TREASURY, David Cohen ,who already worked at the Treasury , what a disaster, the foxes guarding the chickens ! and here comes the new TALF Bail-Out for the Hedge-Funds, this is a piece of insulting proportions, they will bankrupt this great country and take all their assets for change,this economic group will pass to the Neocon Lobby and Oil Lobby all the USA assets, IT’S A TAKE-OVER AND AN OCCUPATION:
One of the few sources so far of facts about the new Bail-Out is a story by David Cho ( EDITED BY 2 NEOCONS) at the Washington Post yesterday ,march 6 ,09 : ” U.S. TO INVITE THE WEALTHY TO INVEST IN THE BAIL-OUT”, where we start to get some of the new Bail-Out details, but the sale of toxic assets to Hedge-Funds and the Government Securities to them is no guarantee that they will lend, so they will get 2 trillion of dollars from the Fed – Treasury – for nothing !!! – and the day after they will blame the Obama -Biden Administration….it’s better if president Obama tells the American people the Truth : THE HEDGE-FUND INDUSTRY AND THE EQUITY INVESTMENT INDUSTRY IN THE USA IS FOR THE MOST PART…..BANKRUPT !!!! there is none of the billions they said they hold for customers, there is no money, it’s just a huge Madoff scheme, so this new Geithner-Bernanke-Kohn-Polakoff-Shapiro-Leibowitz scam is just that : a cover -up of the cruel truth : the neocons have run away with all the USA money and now they need to milk the fools in the USA one more time , so here it is : the TALF and WAPF ( what a pack of fools ) , and then they will blame the Obama-Biden Adm. in time for the 2010 elections…..bu then, if 40 % of the taxpayers are so dumb as to don’t say anything when Kohn,Bernanke and Geithner tell the USA Senate last March , 5, 2009 on the Senate Hearings that they don’t need to know where the A.I.G. money went, maybe they deserve it, right ?
…in essence, more jobs with this economic team ? no ! and we will never become Energy Independent ,never with this economic group behind the Obama-Biden Administration, they will stab them and the USA in the back every step of the way !
There is a coming generation of young activists for whom the fight is for green as opposed to Vietnam as it was for us in our youth. This coming confrontation will also weigh into the equation.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/03/08-4
I remember when we used to use capacity utilization rates as indicators of how well the economy was doing until all our capacity disappeared and became service industry jobs while manufacturing went elsewhere.
We cannot expect a Democratic administration to change things any more than we could a Republican one. It was under the Democrats that the concentrated assault on union jobs began and the first migration of jobs to non-union right-to-work states began with nary a whimper from the Democrats as long as they got their campaign contributions from big labor.
Unfortunately our schools aren’t training kids to understand economics or how to look through verbosity to see the bullshit driving most of what masquerades as policy lately. The same ideological hot points turn up year after year, the same labels, “socialist” “communist” “tax and spend liberal” without anyone bothering to look back into history to see just how close the system was to collapsing and just how fed up people were when the conservatives and business interests started throwing these distractions around in order to neutralize workers’ anger and frustration.
We need to start teaching our kids and our relatives some labor history, some history of the class warfare that has been waged against us for the past 132 years so that they can see through the hatred put out by ideologues like Limbaugh and finally start to stand up and think for themselves.
Stirling is correct, and we have to factor in peak oil, peak natural gas, peak coal, the death of the automobile (as anyone who believes we can transition auto to electricity is delusional), and lack of fresh water.
Most methods of thermally generating electricity are doomed, because they rely on evaporating fresh water (see a cooling tower — see a dinosaur), and fresh water is also scarce.
What’s on the other side of the event will be not be anything like the 20th century. More like the 19th century cities, without coal — certainly the suburbs are dead.
A side comment on electric cars. There is not enough lithium on the planet to make lithium battery packs for electric cars. It’s more practical to have cars fueled by ammonia, made by electrolysis of water and the Haber process than batteries. Molecular bonds do a much, much better job of storing energy than the conversion of salts.
For a fuel with some real bang, forget nitro-methane, try acetylene.
i don’t understand this – at least in the short run. $700 billion went for the TARP, and now obama is talking about the possibility of needing another $700 billion at some point. instead of bailing out the banksters, why not use that $700 billion (or two) to restart a new credit source? at 10 to 1 leverage that’s $7 trillion of credit. or maybe you think this is woefully inadequate?
i agree though that to me it looks like demand is a problem. and especially the kind of demand that leads to long term benefits (health, environment, energy, education, security and so forth) and not just for americans.
at the moment labor productivity doesn’t look like an issue to me. at least not in the classic amount produced / unit of labor sense because the world has tons of labor going to waste. the trick, i’d think, is how to put it to productive use.
what am i missing?
Book Salon upstairs with guest Earl Ofari Hutchinson and his How Obama Won
in the ’90s was it really labor scarcity or monetary policy as i think stiglitz says (if i don’t misunderstand him completely) – iow, a bubble economy?
Bubbliscious monetary policy contributed to rapid growth in the economy which, in turn, led to rapid employment growth, and eventually an unemployment rate low enough to tip into accelerating wage gains.
that’s exactly as i thought. since they (the ’90s wage gains) were temporary / not sustainable i think of the them as nice for the people who enjoyed them but not a measure of real economic progress.
It became clear to me years ago that, despite common wisdom, productivity was actually the enemy of the common worker. As productivity went up, employment (especially quality work) went down.
A lot of that had/has to do with the compensation structure, where those at the top were accumulating all the productivity gains.
At one point Agilent Technologies, where I used to work, changed their “profit sharing” plan because worker productivity from outsourcing had made the old formula so lucrative that they said it was bad. Of course, the payouts went way down.
Until something shifts, I’m glad productivity is down.
Productivity is part of a feedback loop. It is a consequence of other decisions, it is a cause of decisions in turn.
It’s indeed true, and often mentioned, that in the mid 1970’s the link between productivity and wages was broken, however, just as important is that there is a link between consistency of productivity, and lower average gains. Thus the two major constraints on the economy, from much of the public policy view, is that real wages were not rising, and productivity was, for much of the time, not rising as fast as commitments.
Actually in the short term it is the other way around: laying off marginal worker was one of the few ways that productivity could be increased. Hence marginal workers were let go in the US, and hired elsewhere.
I was talking to a econ professor of some note last week, who said that the crisis is not one of demand, but of financial collapse. I said I thought that without tapping new loci of demand, we would not easily recover.
Green demand is tricky, though. Some green demand is reduction. There’s a nice piece in the NY Times Magazine about Zipcars, which reduce the number of cars on the road and the number of miles driven.
Yes, we need to retool. Yes we need to create green demand and then fill it. But green demand may not do the whole trick.
What we also need is to create demand for things which increase quality of life without reducing the quality of the natural environment. GDP increases through literature, drama, community sports and recreation, education, and other low impact, high satisfaction activities.
So what you’re saying is, as long as we DENY the efforts that the workers have put in so far, THEN we can maybe wring more out of the system? Not sure I follow you. What I know from the ground is that people are exhausted, and that as a nation and a culture we are suffering the effects of overwork. Our current efforts don’t seem sustainable.
If you’re arguing that we can somehow make the system fairer and more efficient, then yes, I bet we can. But as a culture we need to reject the corporatist line that the road to happiness is paved with 60-hour work-weeks. That’s been proven wrong.