Paul, Welcome to the Lake.

Siun, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

Thank you Bev for arranging this.

And welcome Paul! I’m really looking forward to our conversation today.

Once we all get settled in, I think it would be helpful to first hear a bit about your background Paul – and your experience in the Middle East. Could you fill us in a little?

Good morning from Sydney, Australia, Firedoglake… thank you for making this possible…

I hope you have some good strong coffee there Paul – it’s rather early on Sunday I think for you.

Welcome to the Lake, Mr McGeough. Thank you Siun and Bev. Thanks in advance, backstage moderators–hope you had a double-helping of Wheaties this morning.

I look forward to becoming better informed through this discussion.

FunnyDiva

I have been a foreign correspondent for almost 20 years – the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990 was my first assignment and so began a long and close relationship with the region.

I have been back regularly since then, for months at a time. I was in New York for 9/11 and since then, have focused almost entirely on what I describe as the post-9/11 story in the ME and in Afghanistan and on the role of the US in the word.

Welcome Mr. McGeough.

I’m only up to p. 178, and am galloping thru your informative and action packed book.

I have some specific questions on what I’ve read so far, and am sorry that I wasn’t able to finish the book before today’s salon.

And please excuse me if my Qs are answered in the part of the book I haven’t read yet.

First Q: How much was reported in the U.S. press and al Jazeera at the time? You go into great detail on AFP, and censorship in Israel. I was otherwise engaged while all this was going on, but I do not recollect seeing much about it.

The coffe is good this morning and I have just had a long walk from my home to the Sydney Opera House and back to freshen up the mind. Questions, please…

Hi Paul and Siun. Thank you for being here.

Understanding these dynamics and these roles is essential if we want to understand the most recent events in Gaza– and if we want to find a way forward that has any chance of reaching peace.

Good to read this. Hungry for perspective. For the second time I commented on HuffPo about Gaza just moments ago and my comment was soonafter “disappeared”. Has also happened on the Guardian.

This “denial” of exploration bottlenecks hope of “change” in terms of a new, honorable paradigm for US domestically and internationally.

I look forward to reading this book.

The assassination bid was not extensively covered, for two reasosn. One, it happened in Jirdan and its significance was not fully appreciated till some time later; and two, most of the official sources at the time were deliberately guarded in what they were willing to reveal. I have had the luxury of going back to them a decade later, when they are more willing to talk in detail. The great work done at the time was by Bart Gellman in the Washington Post… he did a great feature…did not get extensibe cobverage

Paul, we’ve been focused a lot here on the recent developments in Gaza yet few of us have the sense of Hamas history that you share in your book. Do you see an evolution of Hamas over the time you’ve covered them?

On p. 24 you mention that the CIA tipped off a Jordanian intelligence officer on an imminent Israeli attack in 1968. Source is a biography of Arafat. I find it hard to believe that the CIA ever tipped off Arabs against Israel. Any context or flavor for this event? Does the CIA actually do double duty more often than that one event?

Welcome, Paul.

A technical note for you and any other newcomers: If you are replying to a specific comment, click on the button to the lower right of that comment. This will put a little banner next to your reply, so folks can see what you are responding to.

All avenues towards a settlement must be explored and all parties considered for a seat at the table. There is something off in Sec of State Clinton’s dismissal of Hamas in one speech last week as ‘a client of Iran’; and in the next speech she announces that Iran will be invited to the coming regional conference on the fate of Afghanistan…

For folks who have not yet read your book, can you say a little about the dynamics of Israel choosing to attempt the assassination *in Jordan*?

It remains for me one of those signposts of Israel making bad steps when there were other options.

For ease of responding, note that there is a “reply” button at the bottom of each comment, which will help readers know which comment you are answering.

And one last bit of advice, we tend to toss out a lot of questions but we’re patient so please don’t feel overwhelmed!

Hamas is evolving at a significant rate… never fast enough for many of the parties to the crisis. But as the party that opposed Oslo, it now recognises and takes part in the elections spawned by Oslo; for the party that refuses formally to acknowledge the state of Israel, it is prepared to negotiate a two-state solution; ergo – it does recognise the state of Israel; as the part that played only by the gun and the bomb, it now accepts the ballot box through which it won government.

dismissal of Hamas in one speech last week as ‘a client of Iran’; and in the next speech she announces that Iran will be invited to the coming regional conference on the fate of Afghanistan…

forked-tongue pragmatic political gamesmanship. … SOP of SOS?

WRT social services, did Hamas outcompete PLO on the ground because they were there? Or were both comparable until some point at which Arafat was so boxed in by Israel that he became powerless? Does Israel to this day understand the appeal of organizations that win hearts & minds by providing (rather than preventing) needed services, or does Israel not care?

Paul, thank you for joining us today.

I have not had the opportunity to read your book but what you are saying with this comment says a lot: Watch the actions and not just the words.

Of all the players in the region.

Is the move of Hamas to the ballot box part of their patient long-run strategy to take advantage of opportunities when they become available? Or did they take it up because it worked for Hizballah in Lebanon?

SOP or SOS? Remains to be seen. There is a sense of expectation that Washiongton’s conduct of the Middle East crisis is going to change under Pres Obama. So far there has been no proof of that in regard to the Occupied Territories. Syria First has alweays been an option that has not advanced… circumstances have changed post 9/11 to make engaging Damascus worth a try again… but on the ground in the Occupied Territories, DC continues to ignore the expressed will of the Palestinian people and the obvious failure and corruption of Fatah, which the US insists on keeping on an iron lung…

When you were talking about all the Israeli captures of Hamas leaders (prior to Mishal assassination attempt), it sounded like Hamas had failed to do anti-interrogation training. They seemed to fall naively into every Israeli simple trap. Is that accurate?

Dugg right here — please join me!

A very good point. Feels rather schizophrenic, doesn’t it.

As I was reading the sections in the book about the plans by Elliot Abrams and Dayton, I kept seeing the same language, same words that Sec. Clinton used last week – and that was pretty disturbing.

Do you see similar parallels … or am I just too pessimistic?

Good question. In many ways, Israel continues, inadvertently, to make Hamas more appealing. It says it wants to support Abbas/Fatah, but it repeatedly humiliates him. Hamas started from scratch at a time when Arafat/Fatah were in full flight, but in using terror as a weapon at times when so-called peace talks were going no where and settlements were expanding on Palestinian land, Hamas also made itselt a viable option for Palestinians by providing so mmany of the services that they needed in their daily lives.

How to you account for the excessive trend to the right of the youth of Israel. Social indoctrination in schools, etc. Xenophobia to apartheid or worse over there?

And DC’s enabling cronyism with weaponry and propoganda … the strong thumb of the Israel lobby? And yet more and more of us are not buying the Israeli “victim card” any more. What do you recommend for opening up the eyes of the political class?

Legacy of Ashes, which you source several times, indicates that the CIA is so bad in the ME that it relies on Mossad. Is that still true today, and is Mossad the same juggernaut it was in decades past or has it succumbed to the same hubris that haunts U.S. policy blunders?

Depending on how you view the rise of Hamas, we are again looking the results of George W Bush shooting himself in the foot with his insistence that the M be democratised. Khalid Mishal became a convert to the democratic process when he saw how it would legitimise Hamas as a player. Previously there had been only Fatah and a few lesser factions. By calling for elections and allowing Hamas to stand, DC allowed Hamas towin the most important endorsement of all in a democracy – the approval of the people in such numbers that it won government in its own right. Quite an achievement…

Your discussion of Hamas’ own surprise at the outcome is a wonderful section of the book. The shift from resistance to government is clearly a hard one – and sadly we blocked that rather than using it as a moment to encourage it further.

George W Bush shooting himself in the foot with his insistence that the M be democratised. Khalid Mishal became a convert to the democratic process when he saw how it would legitimise Hamas as a player

George couldn’t “fix” the election as well over there as he did over here. How ironic it all is.

Listen to the words, but don’t judge them until there is action taken. I think the coming Obama speeck in Turkey, when he specifically address the Muslim world, will be important. The absurdity of the conduct of moch US policy in the region is the effort to do the splits etween Israel and the Palestinians… For Arabs and Muslims, Palestine is an issue that continues to distress them, as much for the treatment of fellow Arabs and believers, as the role of Jerusalem as an Islamic holy place.I’d have though that even if there was no guarantee, given that the Occupied Territories are used, rightly or wrongly, to stir anti-Western sentiment, that finally addressing all the issues and neutralising it as an issue woult be an essential objective in American foreign policy

For those of us who were paying attention in advance, Hamas’s electoral victory seemed a likely outcome. Pretty ironic too that the collected “wisdom” of our fearless leaders didn’t predict it.

Not so sure about a lurch to the right by young Israelis. When many in their parents’ generaton continue to obsess about existential threats, it’s not surprising that the young adopt the same beliefs, but one of the most interesting social/political issues in the last few years in Israel has been the refusal by young people to fight … manifested with courage as conscientious objectors or less so as draft-dodgers…

Good advice … and perhaps a glimmer of hope.

But from the U.S. govt POV (as I understand it), no deal can go forward unless Hamas surrenders first (ditto Iran). Don’t see anything new from Obama in that regard.

Mossad at a technical and operational level remains a fearsome operation. But in the hands of its political masters, it can allow itself to be drawn into some bizarre activity – eg, the attempted assassination of Khalid Mishal.

Have you had reactions from Mossad figures to your book? or, for that matter, from Mishal or Hamas?

Hamas’ election win was a remarkable triumph for the movement. It was a time when the rest of the world might have concluded that the Palestinian glass was half-full, instead it opted for half-empty and so isolated Hamas. Had Hamas been given time and space, it might have found that governing is a role in which the day-to-day demands of people are motre important that ideology; it already had a committee at work reviewing the hateful language of its Charter; remember that religion is NOT given as the key reason by Palestinians for their support for Hamas.

Israel sez it doesn’t torture; Israeli SC even ruled against it. What is the reality?

Yes, I really admire those in Israel giving strong push back. But the Lieberman rise is so alarming. But I had heard that the youth were becoming more and more hawkish so I appreciate your refuting that.

@eCAHN 35 — the likely outcome of Hamas being elected … the cluelessness of those entrusted with foreign affairs negotiations — doing no real homework on it. Meeting the needs of welfare and security of the people — with less corruption than Fatah apparently. How primal and obvious is that? And being repelled by the malice and humiliation treatment by their occupiers.

So why did the U.S. and Israel make sure that Hamas could not govern?

Condollezza Ruice was quite open in admitting Washington’s failure to read the moode of the Palestinian voters, when she spoke with reporters in the days after the Jan06 Palestinian elections…

I have read and re-read all of the reporting at the time and I have spoken to Khalid Mishal. In was only in the last 48hrs of the election campaign that any of the respected foreign correspondents on the ground in the territories tapped into the real likelihood of a Hamas win; and 18 months later Mishal told me that the most he had expoected was a 50/50 Hamas/Fatah draw…

There’s an alternative hypothesis, which is that the election of Hamas was a carefully laid trap by the U.S. and Israel to further humiliate and suppress the Palestinians. Despite Mr. McGeough’s citing Condi’s public statements, I find it impossible to believe that the two countries were so blind.

I think Obama is more nuanced on Iran. He is engaging Moscow to work the nuclear issue and in engaging Syria, there is room to move too. It’s a ong shot, but if ‘everything is on the table’ in DC-Moscow-Tehran and in DC-Damascus talks, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that gaps will open through which Hamas might be accepted. A long shot, I said…

But you should never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be equally explained by stupidity.

Silence from all quarters…

Heh. Something about forest and trees. Distance, meaning perspective, may serve forecasters better in some circumstances than getting into the weeds. (You can take the mixed metaphors out and shoot them if you like.)

There are enough reports by HRW and AI and others to walpaper the homes of all taking part in this book salon, that confirm that Israel, Fatah and Hamas ALL have engage in torture – it is an ugly reality of the region.

That is a dark hypothesis for sure… the trap one. An excuse to let the window on a 2-state solution close?

But how many of us knew almost certainly over here there were no WMDs when even some of our most trusted reporters were swept into that group think?

Nope. Both hypotheses on the table to be evaluated. Israel’s pattern provides a lot of evidence to date. At just about every stage, Israel becomes more oppressive. That suggests a deliberate pattern, not one bumbled into.

remember that religion is NOT given as the key reason by Palestinians for their support for Hamas.

It is, however, given as the key reason by the Israeli right for Palestinian support for Hamas. Given this misperception (willful or otherwise), giving Hamas time and space was certainly not on their agenda.

Just as I thought. As you obviously read Legacy of Ashes thoroughly, you know that you can add the U.S. to the long list of countries that always tortures.

Having helped to create Hamas pre 9/11 and before Hamas’ alliance with Iran, Israel became terrified by the movement’s organisational skills, its resort to terrorism and its appeal to ordinary Palestinians. Also, as does DC, Israel beliees it can choose its peace partnets and its enemies … it thinks it can fashion an acceptable Palestinian leadership in Fatah … even as it holds in its prisons, the man who is rated as the only real leader of Fatah since the death orf Yasser Arafat.

Your description of meeting Mishal is great – and his reading list was mighty interesting. I wonder what Tenet would think!

We’ve so rarely – if ever – had a chance to read about how it all looks from his viewpoint. And we never hear about his background and what shaped him. Those portions of the book are to me so valuable as they shift our view.

(and the photo of his parents is so charming – not quite the view of “terrorist mom and dad” we might expect!)

And, of course, the more that Israel humiliates Palestinians, the more religious they become as a way to preserve their identity while under seige. Every passing day leaves them with fewer other ways to self-define.

Israel’s blundering is topped only by its brashness

So will they brashly blunder us right into military engagement with Iran?

To me the US-Israel blind codependency over Gaza is the bottleneck stoppage to any real diplomacy so the talking points with other countries from BO and HRC will just be kabuki until there is a reckoning of the truth there.

Is it a sullen, angry silence, as if you hit a nerve and crossed a line?

Is it a respectful silence, as if you got things exactly right but no acknowledgment of that is possible?

Or is it just silence, as in “we’re just not going to talk about it”?

The manner in which the palestinian claims are handed from one generation to the next guarantees that they will not go away. Highly educated and very literate, the Palestinians are still there … look at the pcture of Mishal’s father with the Arab fighters in the 1936 Arab Revolt – that was 12 years before the state of Israel came into being.

I consider it to be a respectful silence. Many people co-operated on a background basis … and the nature of this business, is that you tend not to hear back from them…

I often wonder if our own short history here in the US has made us miss the importance of tradition and heritage that is so important to others – especially those like the Palestinians whose loss is so great.

We just move on to the next suburbs … they cannot.

… but the ripples of your truth-telling will long term aid to peace. There is catharsis in the revelations and opportunity for perspective. You do serious service. Thank you.

Have you felt physically endangered while reporting. In line of fire or from zealots?

Perceptive. I think one of the shortcomings of so-called new-world countries is a belief that history began when they arrived in the new world. Go elsewhere, into Ireland, Europe, the Middle East and Asia and history appears to be very different… as do ideas on resolving crises that are rooted in pre-New World eras…

I really appreciated the part at the beginning of the book where you describe the Palestinian contribution to the Kuwaiti economy. Americans don’t think of Palestinians as highly educated, accomplished contributors to civilization.

Some one else pointed out to me awhile ago, that it is a tremendous accomplishment, in the Ghandi sense, for ordinary Palestinians to continue to live on a daily basis under their circumstances. So while there are terrorist elements, there is also a strong nonviolent resistence by the vast majority of Palestinians, just to go on living.

What impressed me most about Mishal was his having read 500 books as a teen. I’m an inveterate reader, but couldn’t hold a candle to him in those years!

Speaking of the nature of your business, how does the fact that you are connected with an Australian newspaper (as opposed to a US or European one) affect the dynamic of how you are treated?

Paul, your account of the abduction of Gilad Shalit describes it as a pretty masterful Hamas military operation yet I have seen accounts that say it was not Hamas but other factions. Can you say a bit about the whole Shalit situation – which is once again in the forefront of the cease fire discussions?

Being in the line of fire is always dabgerous – in Afghanistan, three of my colleagues were killed, while two of them were so close to me that their bodies were touchng my body, when we were ambushed by the Taliban.

I take as much care as I can.

One of the wonders of spending time in Gaza is the ability of the people to endure and to persevere … truly remarkable.

Aside: eCahn, you might like to take a look at this commentary from the time of the elections on GorillasGuides – http://gorillasguides.com/2006…..-for-whom/

I take as much care as I can.

Obviously heroically more than most. How do you “debrief” from such trauma? How do you not “demonize” those threatening your life and not lose your objectivity?

Are you embedded? How do you negotiate this dangerous work?

Australia is what I call ‘a list country’. As a rule, it is mentioned in despateched only in the list of other countries that support a particular US position. It rarely rates a mention in the context of the palestinian issue; in Afghanistan and Iraq, ALL the fotreign troops are/were seen as American. But my best asset when travelling is my Irish passport … quite often when I cross a border in conflict, a border guard says to me “your country oppupied too!”

Occassionally I embed. I have just returned from a remarkable embed with American troops on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. There openess and sharing of information was quite amazing. On coming home, I have a great wife who is my counsellor… sometimes she’ll come and join me for a holiday at the end of an assignment in the regions from which I report … and we wind down and chill out together…

I just wanted to highlight this comment. It is so easy to fall into a romanticized trap of seeing one force or another as “pure.”

And we need to learn that we can support people’s self-determination without that being an endorsement of all actions all the time, I think.

Thanks. I will.

Costermonger’s interlude: For your next printing, there’s a “u” missing from bureau at the bottom of page 124.

In this context, I see the role of Norway in world affairs as v constructive. OK Oslo failed, but the determination of Norwegian diplomats to get in to a crisis and attempt to move it towards a solution, even as the American talks were going no where in Washington was spectacular…

How embarrassing – thank you v much for pointing it our and, indeed, it wil be corrected in the reprint.

Don’t know about that. Most people, if asked, would say that the Palestinian orgs torture. And they don’t go around the world trumpeting themselves as pargons of virtue. That little hypocrisy is reserved for the U.S. and Israel.

Norwegian doctors were so involved in caregiving during the recent attack on Gaza – and they certainly knew how to get important information out to the world.

Paul, do you thing we are going to see a Cast Lead 2 – or any hope of opening the blockade enough to get in a decent amount of supplies at minimum?

Not to be embarrassed. Just to lighten up the conversation for an instant. I’d like you to spend your time on substantive work, which you do so well, not on proofreading.

That sounds like a good recipe for keeping your emotional balance.

And as Siun stresses … good, bad, ugly on all sides. Open minds and open hearts needed. So hard when discussing these issues to keep to facts and away from generalizations, and off-putting righteousness.

I remember that book and movie, “The Little Drummer Girl” long ago with Diane Keaton. I have been thinking about that movie in terms of Keaton being a symbol for the U.S. Near the end, a dying assassinated leader looks at her and asks, “Why are you here?” She is stunned by her own naivete. This American naivete also examined in that movie The Quiet American.

I didn’t read any reviews of your book yet, including the reader reviews on amazon. Could you summarize the reviews for us? Esp. those in Israel.

Put to one side the rights and wrongs of the lead-up to and the conduct of Cast Lead 1, the humanitarian heartlessness of the world in its aftermath is a stain on the reputation of us all. How the internationa community can allow itself to become a participant in the collective punishment of the people of Gaza beggars belief.

(it’s a lesson drummed into me by markfromireland to counter my oh so american desire to find the “good guys” – giving it up is very liberating!)

the humanitarian heartlessness of the world in its aftermath is a stain on the reputation of us all. How the internationa community can allow itself to become a participant in the collective punishment of the people of Gaza beggars belief.

So well put, sadly. Thank you for expressing it.

Perceptive. Intrigueingly, Washington understands a need to be a world player, but often it displays great misunderstanding of the world … how many expert analysts does it take to explain the benefits, short and long-term, of resolving the palestinian crisis without disadvantaging israel?

It is shameful.

The reports that continue to come out from Gaza are so awful … and the nitpicking maneuvering over aid when the need is so urgent is maddening.

We try to keep a focus on that here but sadly instead so many in our Congress prefer to posture over whether “a penny might reach the terrorists” … argh

Siun, you keep your balance amazingly, because your reports also contain such passion. Thank you for role modeling that so well. Respect for the plight of individuals caught up in their respective “group thinks” probably helps, too.

Noam Chomsky argues in this interview that there is an international consensus against the way the Israelis are treating the Palestinians, and that one is also developing among the U.S. population. The only thing standing in the way of international rection is the strong U.S. govt objection to any anti-Israeli action. Do you concur?

Thank-you Mr. McGeough for being here. I’m sorry that I arrived late but I have enjoyed reading the comments and look forward to reading your book.

Your comment @ 34 was similar to what I have been thinking of late.

Listen to the words, but don’t judge them until there is action taken. I think the coming Obama speech in Turkey, when he specifically address the Muslim world, will be important.

With regard to the new U.S. administration, it is too soon to tell. The speech in Turkey will be interesting. The citizens of Muslim nations will not forget or forgive if his future actions fail to match the rhetoric.

Reviews just coming in – Washington Post spoke well of it yesterday; others are in the pipeline, but not sure of dates. Here in Australia, it has been well received; yet to be reviewed in Israeol and the Arab world, but there is interest from Israeli publishers and newspapers; British edition not to be published till next month. I’ve had a big round of media interviews here i Oz this week and in late March/early April, I’ll be doing appearances (what a dreadful word!)in New York, DC and San Francisco

Paul, over and over again it seems that it is Israel itself that undermines potential good moments – or specifically provokes reactions. Do you see a pattern and does it make any sense to you?

Please let us know when you are appearing and we’ll spread the word!

The more I am learning, the less confused I am by 9/11. The refrain back then, “Why do they hate us?” Imperailist ego. Military Industrial Complex… if all you have is a hammer, you see everything as a nail. Cronyism and self interest… he is “our guy” just for today so let’s not think long range? As Gore Vidal says, sadly we are the “United States of Amnesia”.

Also, as Senator Whitehouse has said, our national truth will repel but needs to be faced down.

Re a penny for the terrorists, it is fascinating that your lawmakers want to by-pass the proven and much-documented honesty of Hamas, which is on the ground in Gaza, and to hand hujndreds of millions to the provenly corrupt Fatah machine on the Wset Bank. Its a bit like giving the money to the Mafia in New York to deal with the California forest fires…

When are you going to be in NYC? I live there and would love to have you sign my greatly marked up copy. Are either Brian Lehrer or Leonard Lopate interviewing you on wnyc radio? They are both great, so if you have time and they’re not on your schedule, try to fit one of them in. Also, are you going to do democracy now? Amy Goodman is the best.

Now that’s a quote!

and all too true!

I am in NYC, also, and will look for you! Agree, eCahn about Lopate and Lehrer. And Goodman!

The right decision in DC changes the equation overnight. I’m sadly of the belief that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are capable of reaching an agreement any more – both sides too punch-drunk. The only peace that can be achieved will be imposed…

US needs to go to “tough love” with its forever ally, Israel. They say once the “enabler” recovers the addict has more of a shot.

The companies awarded contracts for “reconstruction” in Iraq and elsewhere are much like crime syndicates… bribing public officials, demanding excessive payments for work done poorly or not at all. So you see, there is long-standing precedent for the U.S. funding the wrong people.

I have a colleague who often briefs reporters by asking for what she calls ‘the helicopter view’. The helicopter view of 60 years of Israeli history is that despite extensive debate among Israelis and regardless of all the talking about peace and reaching an accommodation with palestinians, the reality is that nothing has happened to advance the palestinian position -in fact, they have gone backwards as more and more settlements and roads are built on their land.

Here’s another specific Q. On p. 77, you detail the FBI spying on the Hamas meeting at the Philly AP Marriott, but don’t give a source for that info. Do you remember what it is, i.e., how do you know about that? And how did the FBI know to bug that meeting?

Paul – do you have any thoughts about today’s news of the resignation of Salam Fayyad?

Getting here far too late to add anything other than yes the Irish passport is a wonderful document to travel on in the Middle East. And yes, giving up the need to find the “good guys” is wonderfully liberating.

How come you’re not on my FDL NYC meetup list? Will catch up with that on another thread.

eCahn – just wait till you get to the sections about Elliot Abrams and gang …amazing information!

Thanks, eCAHN! Appreciate that.

Plans for NY still in flux, but I think all that you have suggested is in place or in the process of being arranged. Also is a function at Columbia University at noon on March 30

Isn’t that what is called the industrial-military complex at work?

I’ve been whipping through it as fast as I can. Can’t wait to read that section. (Still have some ink left in my pen for marginalia. *g*)

We are almost at the end of our time but I wanted to mention that Paul has also written two other books:

Manhattan to Baghdad: Dispatches from the Frontline of the War on Terrorism

and

In Baghdad: A Reporter’s War

I’ve ordered them and can’t wait to dig in – and perhaps sometime we could
get Paul back to chat about those as well – and his experiences and views on Afghanistan.

Israel provided intell on many Hamas sympathisers – lijke Mohammed Saleh in Chicago, and Mousa Abu Marzook. The detail of the FBI transcript first came to light as evidence against the Holy Land Foundation et al in the civil legal action re the death of David Boim in Jerusalem which was taken in a Chicago court.

Awesome Salon. Thank you, Paul, Siun. Will try to read by your Columbia appearance! :)

As we come to the end of this Book Salon,

Paul, Thank you very much for stopping by the Lake and spending your morning with us
disucssing your new book and the Middle East political situation.

Siun, Thank you very much for Hosting this important discussion and Book Salon.

Everyone, Paul’s book is just being released in the US, it is a very good book,
if you have not ordered one yet, here is a link.

Thanks all.

Isn’t that what is called the industrial-military complex at work?

Right, they actually commit larceny on a scale which must turn the Mafia green with envy.

If that’s open to non-Columbia folks, I’ll try to attend. That will probably be an interesting venue, including possible Jewish protestors. Is Rashid Khaladi hosting?

Thanks to Paul, Bev, Siun and all who participated.

Thanks. Yes, The Holy Land Foundation. Prosecution not a paragon of probity.

I was trying to wrap my head arounf this earlier. Appears to be a part of the choreography in the wake of the latest attempt to set up another unity government. Fayed is fascinating player – unelected and with no electoral appeal to Palestinians, he is accepted in Washington because he once worked with the World Bank.

For international purposes, he gave the Abbas machine a veneer of respectability; and, seemingly, he he is an efficient thecnocrat. But this is destined to be a year of tumult in the Occupied Territories and how the Palestinians, the Israelis and the Americans and the Quartet handle it will be revealing … there should be seperate presidential and parliamentary elections. As things stand DC seems OK with a president whose term has expired but refuses to stand down; a prime minister who was unelected; and a Palestinian parliament of which a great number of its members are in Israeli jails.

Paul, thank you so much for your time today – and for Kill Khalid. It is a very important book and one I know I will be recommending and sharing widely.

And thanks firepups for a great discussion! I suspect we’ll be referring back to it – and to Paul’s book often!

Thanks Mr. McGeough, for the book and for being here to answer our questions and give additional perspective.

BTW, I’ve had one short visit to Sydney, and made good use of the paths around the Opera House. The weather must be great, and you bring back fond memories.

As things stand DC seems OK with a president whose term has expired but refuses to stand down; a prime minister who was unelected; and a Palestinian parliament of which a great number of its members are in Israeli jails.

Oy vey. It sure ain’t just a river in Egypt!

I think we’re done. Thank you all at fdl and all who took part. Happy to come back another time … stimulating and thoroughly enjoyable.

Not exactly a stellar example of democracy eh? The apparent suddenness of the announcement made me wonder what was up … it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Thank you!

And have a nice relaxing rest of your Sunday!

New tbogg post: Taking Kaiser Health Care Mountain by strategy

grrrl, you crack me up!!
FunnyD

Sorry I’m here late, but the phrase “..what we hear of Hamas begins with ‘terrorist and ends with ‘Iran’” is the perfect description.
Kudos.