First Republicans said FDR made the Depression worse. Now they’re saying the Depression made America better (wouldn’t that mean that FDR made America better?). Exhibit A, Michael Gerson:
During an economic crisis, Americans return to a language of morality. Perhaps excess and recklessness are vices that deserve social stigma. Perhaps frugality and prudence are personal virtues as well as practices that prevent economic collapse. Perhaps there is a distinction between securing our needs and being dominated by our wants.
No wonder the Depression resulted in Republicans being shut out of power for 18 years.
Exhibit B, Pastor Hibbs:
Titled "Finding Hope in the Global Crisis," Hibbs says the conference will reveal what he believes is the biblical backstory of the economy and America’s wars in the Middle East.
"We also believe the message will bring people hope and understanding," Hibbs says. "That’s going to dispel, I trust, a lot of fear and confusion."
(…)
"Our homes and our jobs, those are not the things we are living for," Hibbs says. "There’s a greater purpose for life, there’s a greater reason for living. The Lord has made that clear."
Gerson and Hibbs are both arguing that a depression or prolonged economic crisis will force us to focus on the truly important things, like Family Values. In essence, they’re predicting the ascendancy of the religious right as more and more people turn to God and family to get through the tough times.
They’re probably right, at least within the context of the Republican party. As Gerson suggests, the corporate cons will be discredited and stigmatized by the callousness and tone-deaf entitlement they spit from every pore, making the theocons stronger by default. (And it won’t hurt if lots of people believe that divine intervention is the economy’s only hope, either.)
But unless the religious right is shrewd enough to seize the moment and replace intolerance with compassion, it’s hard to see how they gain much power nationally, or how the three-legged Republican stool doesn’t go all wobbly with its corporate leg loosened. Hey, maybe depressions are good for us after all!
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zomg
Eli!
goodeve Eli,the convoluted thinking hurts my haid
Sounds reasonable to me.
Vote for Republicans, get a Depression.
Get a Depression, get closer to G-d.
Therefore, vote for Republicans and get closer to G-d. Brilliant!
these peope ar unbelievable. They plunge the country into an economic crisis that comes at a time when it could end up permanently eroding US global leadership, and now they’re arguing that misery is GOOD FOR US? Fracking traitors.
and i just love the dickheads they worship,like SIR Allen Stanford
BWAHAHAHAhahahahahaa
The religious right would be *nowhere* if FDR hadn’t prolonged the Depression.
The News Hour featured a story about how during an economic downturn, people drink and smoke less, andexercise more. Fewer people driving to work and lower industrial output reduce pollution. What’s not to like about a depression?
Yeah, Gerson was saying that too. Depressions are AWESOME.
Eli,
I thought the Republicans were all compassionate conservatives, whatever became of that I wonder…
cat food
nope
they turn to crime, they turn to depravity, they turn to murder and rape
it’s easy to be honest when you can feed your kids, when you can’t feed your kids you are desperate, desperate people do desperate things
the depression will breed immorality not morality
I think it’s a tough-love thing or something.
Fiore on Republican Revisionism
economic downturns are differant then depressions
Again, the conservative thinkers have history exactly backwards. The religiousity came prior to the Great Depression, culminating in Prohibition, passed in 1920. Prohibition was repealed in 1933, under FDR. So not only did FDR save the US economy, he gave us back our beer.
Let’s go for longer this time.
Aren’t stools supposed to have three legs?
I think they’re getting harder to kill. Nixon only took them out for six years.
Neocons are the third. I don’t think they’re exactly prospering these days either.
Thanks, Eli. Like that pic.
The Repugs led by Bushco will try to spin their economic gang rape of America.
From Camelot: “It’s not the earth the meek inherit, it’s the dirt!”
Neocons and Theocons and Con(artist)-cons (who should be cons). Successful destructive teamwork.
ill drink to that
Depression: the cure for obesity and pollution.
Richard Perle says Neocons don’t exist.
Forty years in the wilderness for them
and the cheerleading multi billion dollar mass media,galant cheerleaders till the end
The length of an inning is contingent on the effectiveness of the players.
That’s why I didn’t want to risk mentioning them in the main post.
yah
bwahahahahahaha,saw that,wonder if he is enjoying the South of France in his villa,now that they are out of power
Rachel on the topic right now.
It seemed like an odd choice for a news segment. The upside of calamity.
Yes, must not forget the corporate-leashed press. cheerleading and eveb international kool-aid distribution…
(must keep the internet free must keep the internet free must keep the internet free ….)
“even”… not “eveb”.. sorry…ooops… got excited :)
Who knows, maybe the depression will restore moral values.
War is Peace, .50
Depression is Wealth, .50
Suffering is Good. .50
Total 1.50
Thank you for using our Orwellian Depression Card to redeem your unemployment and Depression Benefits.
Very intersting Moyers tonight…Journalist with new book about lobbying + Parker Palmer, very interesting writer. A rich evening.
now thats funny
Rachel’s segment was on the “neocons don’t exist” meme. Depression as a cure for obesity and pollution is more a snark than a seriousness.
I gathered as much. Even the News Hour story was tongue-in-cheek… for them.
New world currency exchange coming in 2010 based on commodities, mostly oil and gold.
This is a Russia and Arab initiative with support from Chine, Japan, and Germany.
Unless WWIII interferes.
Well, in a way they’re right.
Using the language of ecology, what we’ve got here is an adaptive crisis.
Now admittedly, our adaptive crisis might be likened to a bad case of diarrhea, but diarrhea can kill. The diarrhea might be the result of bad or maladaptive behavior. Whatever. The main thing is, from an ecological point of view, is that we have to identify the source of the adaptive crisis, and either contain it, avoid it, or get rid of it.
To repeat in slightly different terms, what we have here is a systems failure, resulting from (a) inputs to the system, or (b) system malfunction, or both. We gotta fix the system.
The Treasury (and Obama) need to fix the short term problem (stop the bleeding, or diarrhea, or whatever), but once that is done, the job is not over, or else it will happen again.
What are the causes of the current meltdown? Let me count the ways.
From one perspective, the causes are Avarice and Greed.
From another perspective, deregulation of too many things (i.e., changing the rules). This is Congress’s bailiwick.
From another perspective, malregulation or disregulation (i.e., ignoring or circumventing existing regulations). This is the Administration’s bailiwick.
In the short run, we must of course deal with the symptoms: the bad behaviors, the personal corruption.
But in the long run, we need to adjust the system, and the sooner, the better.
End of rambling.
Bob in HI
i must admit i have a little glee,thinking their greed caused them to invest with one of the crooks….teehee
good rant
It seems amazing that so many educated, successful, individuals never learned that little lesson about things that sound too good to be true.
i can’t count high enough to take keep track of all the layers of hypocrisy and projection this one sentence contains.
As one of German heritage, let me raise my glass and say “That’s a stimulus package I can drink to.”
GREED always overcomes rationality methinks
my nose is soooooo stuffed up…..dang it
There are frequent exceptions, those individuals simply don’t attract as much attention.
I was waiting for someone to mention the repeal of prohibition.
tru dat
Excellent show. Palmer was great. This is the first time I’ve seen it avail online before it’s on teebee. Now that my analog teebee is obsoleto.
Darn, that was was supposed to be a reply to sad@22… I’ve got to get more moral, and sober :/
Are you sure? Our local PBS station is sticking with analog until June. Most of the others have pulled the plug.
Michael Gerson:
Funny thing: The years 1929-1933 were among the most licentious years in movies, prompting the adoption of the Hays Code in 1934. Not a particularly “moral” time. Hollywood films didn’t become as edgy or forthright again until the 60’s.
I suspect everyone already knows this, but: Michael Gerson is full of shit.
.
Hey, good to see you. Is that TB completely obsolete? I have so far lost only the CBS station…maybe I will just give us TV. Palmer is remarkable; lessons of depression, not easy for sure.
Yep. All last week they had ads on saying that they couldn’t afford the $10K/month it would cost to broadcast in both. They’ve been set to go for a while. I know they’re on a really tight budget so I don’t blame them. I can watch Moyers and Washington Week online. I’ll miss This Week in Florida after WW and, fessin’ up, Cold Case on Sun nite. And the Fox game of the week during baseball season. Can do any team audio online though. Could do vid but ain’t giving ‘em the dust.
Gerson is such a scold-y pecksniff.
I imagine him to have some really nasty habits.
It varies from market to market. Stations had to petition the FCC for permission to switch before June, and the FCC made sure that at least one over-the-air station remained analog until the official changeover takes place.
See my 56. 5 of the local stations, PBS, ABC, NBC, CBS and a local, went strictly digital Tues. We’ve got a total of 8. I can always go to Joe’s house and watch bb any time I want. Vodka’s free, too.
Yep, Gerson is a jerk. Why picking events out of a vast array of human behavior is a crock of shit.
Evenin’. I’ve been in and out. Just missed you earlier this mornin’. You beat feet afore I got there.
Have you heard about the convoy of vehicles out of England traveling to Gaza via norther Africa? Put together and led by our old friend George Galloway, MP.
that would be norther as opposed to souther.
Religious nutbags like these always get excited when things get bad. I think the only reason I haven’t heard more from them is that I have a policy of avoiding conversations with idiots.
mass media??? they are in the bag for Democrats. NBC, MSNBC are owned by GE whose CEO is Jeff IMMELT who Obama just picked for his business advisory group. The New York Times and Washington Post as well then they ask for bailouts soon as the election is over
The deeply wise David Brooks was saying on the NewsHour this evening that we don’t know how the Great Depression happened.
It seems very strange that the Republicans are obsessing about the last depression they caused instead of the current one (they also caused).
Well, you know, depressions just kind of arise spontaneously. They’re really not anyone’s fault, they’re just one of those mysteries of life.
a force of nature – like earthquakes or hurricanes?
http://www.vivapalestina.org/
No-one could have anticipated…
well, no one who was paid not to.
well I could have.
Didn’t you used to be the NSA?
And these.
Gaza Convoy 2009
George Galloway
There’s also a discussion with one of the participants who is getting ready to leave London and join the convoy. Done live today. It’s was on wmnf.org but isn’t on the archive list yet.
sad4america, you really need to lay off that koolaid. A liberal corporation is an oxymoron. Do you really think that GE with all of its defense contracts is filled with closet Democrats? As for the Post and Times maybe you haven’t been here long but we have been writing about there conservative neocon leanings for years. Do you think that all the major media outlets just happened not to notice that Bush was the worst President in our history, that they went after Clinton over a BJ but looked the other way while Bush trashed the Constitution?
If you want us to take you seriously, you either need to put forward your evidence or we will just think you are making it up. Yes, Obama or rather Volcker picked Immelt to sit on the Economic Recovery Advisory Board but so what? Except for a couple of labor leaders, the whole panel is nothing but financial and corporate types. I know I wrote an oxdown diary on it:
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/3509
What this shows is not how liberal they are but how conservatie Obama is.
brother,can ya spare a dime?
Seems unlikely anybody who leans Republican after the last eight years will be moved by reason.
Or facts.
RIP Socks, former White House cat.
Guess we’ll just have to send stormtroopers in black helicopters to kick in their doors./
‘evening, all.
ratfood and sd – i’ve got republicans in my family and i’m not giving up on them. actually the dems in my family have possibly become almost as conservative so i better not give up on them either.
Anyone who needs a dime doesn’t deserve it. Now if you were a bank and demanded $20 billion, that’s different. It’s great living in such an egalitarian country, isn’t it? We’re all free to be poor but only a few must bear the hardship of hoarding billions.
You mean the Xe Team?
Evenin’.
Have a little sympathy – the billionaire lifestyle is a lot harder to maintain.
18. Very respectable age and obviously well loved. RIP Socks.
There are always exceptions to the rule. *g*
You might appreciate the Galloway clip in my 74.
I love that photo of Socks at the podium. Kitty in Chief.
RIP Socks, former White House cat.
Does “former” refer to Socks status as a cat or his living arrangements?
The difference to me is that a conservative democrat acknowledges the idea of community and collective responsibility, while a conservative Republican with many of the exact same positions does not.
I love being a prisoner of my wealth.
That is a great photo.
After eight years of dedicated public service, Socks had returned to the private sector.
same here *g
hahaha. not in my family.
treason rhymes with reason…. ;-P
thankyou,i did not want to feed tonite,my nose is stuffed……g
ditto
should say, probably the other way around. actually may be more tribal affiliation than actual principles.
So it sounds like America is a nation of whiners, losers and moral degenerates.
Nothing the Party of Gingrich, Foley and Craig can’t cure with some old time religion.
-G
and right now here it rhymes with freezin’
I can think of better cures . . .
I got their ol’ time religion ratcheer.
I’ll bet you have interesting family holiday gatherings.
“SIR” Allen Stanford heheheheehehe
was a big contributor to Bob Ney,and Tom the bugmanDelay
BTW the picture of Socks is really well composed. Being off center adds interest without taking away from the portrait. And to be a really good portrait it follows the rule of not only showing the face but also the hands (or in this case paws).
julia upstairs
It also adds an element of tension, very in keeping with a cat. Great picture.
In hard times politics can be a refuge.
Didn’t the 1929 crash & panic precede the Great Depression? That was when the Masters of the Universe reduced trading to the speed of light with telephones and electric adding machines. But those machines weren’t adequate to reversing the disaster soon enough. Plus that drought (hate when that happens).
Supercomputers on desktops, day traders in pajamas, cells, math formulas that trade at lightspeed across time zones, across the International Dateline, in ever-changing currency rates (not a sentence).
thanks just watched it. hard to watch what is happening in the occupied territories (and in israel as well) – it all seems so unnecessary.
Of course, Gerson isn’t suggesting that he, personally, should suffer during a depression. Just the rest of us.
not so much if i keep my mouth shut.
Gonna be real interesting with the Egyptians. The Gaza Convoy diary is wonderful. Leave it to Galloway to pull this off.
This is crazy thinking.
What’s the Manson family, then, God’s little helpers? I mean really, this is just too much.
I have to wonder if this destruction of the economy isn’t somehow linked with the “Faith-Based Initiatives” in which the religious right was going to get most of the largesse to assist those driven into poverty. In order to obtain basic assistance one would have to become a member of one of these denominations, get inculcated with the insane theological explanations for ones condition (your own fault, sin, gays, liberals, socialists, minorities, etc.) . Want a bowl of soup, some bread, a bed…get in line to be indoctrinated.
The photo is by Dorothea Lange who documented it for the Agricultural Commission (I would guess recording migrant farm workers). I saw an exhibit of Lange’s work at Sacramento State, which included many of the more famous images of the Depression (soup lines, the famous picture of model-A’s with peoples worldly possessions under a billboard showing a wealthy smiling family in a Pontiac, etc.).
That photography unit was later incorporated as the War Information Office durng WWII, which also produced some great documentary photographers. Lange took many of the photos that documented the Japanese camps at Manzanar, Tule Lake, and elsewhere.
No one knows who the woman in the picture was.
What Bush and his party left behind is an ideal example of the “Shock Doctrine”- on the domestic front.
And here’s how it plays out in Sarah Palin’s Alaska
cinnamonape @115… thank you so much. I love that this is a woman photographer. Will explore more about her. The Japanese internment camps. Wow. More and more I keep thinking of Gore Vidal’s book title, “The United States of Amnesia.” Lessons don’t seem to find a national conscience.
Shock and awe … was inevitable we would get a taste of what our government has been handing out globally for so long.
Why can I only think of Brother Justin from ‘Carnivale’?