ZED!

Hey PW.

You really want consistency??

PW!

How’s Franken doing?

Good evening everyone

DUGG

If I didn’t know better I’d swear they make all this shit up as they go along.:-)

Dugg indeed.

This is but one of many reasons why I left the Church while in my teens!
How can you believe anything when so many “Things” keep changing depending on “Who” is in office. Besides just who did write the Bible?? Inquiring minds want to know??

good evening PW, nahant, TexBetsy, ratfood, katymine and anyone I missed

well hey .. i’ve got no problem with a religious organization that like to meddle in politics .. as long as they’re willing to start paying property taxes on all those big nice buildings and the land they sit on ..

otherwise they need to sit back ..chill out ..and drink a nice big cup of STFU ..

Hi katymine. I just heard we’re supposed to get 3-6″ of snow by the weekend. Wouldn’t mind trading locales with you for a few days.

I was not aware of this history about the Catholic church’s changing position on abortion. But then, I am not a Catholic.

To be serious for just a moment, the scientific ability to save babies in utero at earlier and earlier stages has unleashed the blastula=life crowd. It’s the only science that the adhere to.

What an ungracious crew of pedophile-protectors these bishops are, decrying Nancy Pelosi just prior to her visit to their boss. Are these the manners they learned at the nuns’ knees? Or are these the manners they’ve learned in the twisted charnel house that is their hideous death cult?

oh .. i’m sorry… PW .. thanx for the history lesson …

It smacks a little of insubordination. The subtext seems to be that the Pope shouldn’t meet with her. Not exactly their call to make.

The most amusing one is that it took approximately 1870 years for the RC church to discover that the pope is infallible.

Catholics lying? Catholic hypocrites?

No Kidding?!!!!

It is my understanding that henceforth he would like to be referred to as Senator-elect Franken. Works for me.

Hypocrisy is not confined to religion and democracy. It is just heavily concentrated there.

You expect consistency (or actual facts) from an actual theocrat?

Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl issued a statement attacking the pro-choice Pelosi by saying that Church teaching is clear, and has been clear for 2,000 years that abortion is “gravely contrary to the moral law.”

Um, no. The historical record proves you wrong, Your Excellency

I blame the Catholic Schools for the ArchBishop’s ignorance.

Hell, they didn’t even make marriage a sacrament until the late Middle Ages.

Thats why they have confession… I am sure you have heard all about the catholic girls having fun with their boyfriends and Then going to confession to get absolved!! HA

wore coat today it was in the low 50’s brrr

I was raised Catholic but can’t say any of this was taught in the school I went to. They generally teach current doctrine.

I gave up years ago as a practicing Catholic due to “some” disagreements I have with certain church teachings. The tolerance and openess that came out of Vatican II the conservatives are trying to do away with it seems.

I left too, right after graduating from girls Catholic school, Padua Academy. I remember fighting with my mother at the back of the church, refusing to enter the confessional. Never looked back.

I think the “papal infallibility” clause refers more to the station than the individuals that occupy it. Had somebody attempt to explain the nuance of to me once. To be fair it sounded as reality based as any other non-secular school of thought…

What makes you think they aren’t making it up as they go?

They’re against divorce, and say that those who divorce and remarry are guilty of adultery and shouldn’t receive the eucharist, but there’s Rudy receiving it in public without any comment from the local hierarchy.
Double standard, anyone?

Furthermore, as David Morris also noted, the Church seems to be much more tolerant of Republican pro-choice politicians than it is of Democratic ones: “While Catholic Democratic Governor McGreevey was sanctioned, in part for his support for abortions, Catholic Republican Governor Pataki of New York, who holds similar views on abortion, was not. Sacramento Bishop Wiegand chastised Catholic Democratic Governor Gray Davis for supporting abortion rights and recommended that he refrain from taking Communion. But he has issued no warning to Catholic Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who also supports abortion rights.”

Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit the Church is using abortion to punish us but not the GOP? Seems like we have proof of bias but why I don’t know.
I think given the economy the church might be leery of another round of lawsuits.

Men in Power want it Their Way. Tell them to go to Wendy’s and they will make it their “Way”.

The reactionary wing of the church, best represented by Papa Ratzi, has been trying to undo Vatican II since before it was officially adopted.

Still took the RC church 1,870 years to dream it up.

I assumed my snark was evident. I find no credence in accounts of the supernatural.

They had a lot of ’splainin’ to do.

Does raise the small problem of exactly how you separate the office from the person occupying it in this context.

Garry Wills described it as the church’s version of nukes: They have it, but they can’t really use it without doing serious damage. So it’s only been used for the dogma of the Immaculate Conception (in what, 1854?).

So did they backdate that one?

Is it anything like Nixon’s “if the president does it, it is not illegal”?

1476, according to wiki. Heh about not being able to use it. I was raised RC, left age 13, but I can guaranty that the papal infallibility thingy was powerful. Just like unused nukes.

I’m with Ramana Maharshi…”Who am I”…Self Inquiry…”All” questions go back to that.

As far as the supernatural, I’m not strongly convinced either way.
I do find the church’s views on anything involving sex to be worthy of LOL and 707. A group of officially-celibate unmarried men trying to tell women how to run their own lives, after all ….

There are things from the church I did and do appreciate and one is the encouragement to help socially. Catholic Social Services and Catholic Worker in this country do good. In Latin American Liberation Theology has struggled for decades with bad government and reactionary church officials to help the poor.

And the Baptists believed life began with the newborn’s first breath. Until Roe vs. Wade showed them the error of their theology.

LOL

Blastula my ass, eCAHN.

If it was every blastula is sacred, they couldn’t oppose hormonal contraception or Plan B. It’s zygotes, every zygote a human bean…

I think is a bit more like Louis XIV’s “L’etat c’est moi.” In modern English, the law is what I fucking say it is.

If I recall correctly (can’t guarantee) the theory suggests that while individual actions might APPEAR to contradict church teachings, over the course of time, the sum of papal actions will be correct and for the greater good.

Um, you’d have to ask the papal see. I didn’t follow the history. *g*

I’m on it.

I thought the pope officially denounced liberation theology in LA.

Love the history. It’s incomprehensible to me that the Church would support overpopulation unless they, like the Republicans want a huge, poor labor and tithing population to exploit.

Sorry, but religion in it’s current form is absolutely repellent to me.

Sometime in the middle ages the view on women changed to the status that women were lower than the donkey who toils ……

George XIVRichard XIVBruce Richard Cheney…Nevermind….the Bruce.

I understand that some religions expand that notion to include the universe and everything that happens in it, hence eliminating the need to believe in “evil”…

perhaps Dr. Dick or one of our other learned commenters can tell me if such a belief has a name

The church, like most social institutions, has its good sides and its bad ones and has done a lot of good for many people. I pretty much agree with Marx (long version, not Reader’s Digest condensed version) on the utility and value of religion

The picture is interesting because Americans usually begin counting with one being the index finger while Europeans use their thumb for one and go sequentially through their fingers.

I love the picture too of the guy on the far left who looks like he is bored to death and seriously wants to get out of there.

Like the other people in the picture Augustine was way ahead of his time as his wearing medieval clothes in Roman times demonstrates.

LS !

O’ course, The Maharishi never asked that … prolly cause he was so busy doing Bongs with Paul & John … *g*

Uh-hunh. And pigs will fly.

Well, there’s the uptick in Islam, where women are worth 1/2 to 2/3 of a man depending on the application.

Rome has been trying to kill it for many years but it has a reason to survive, the people still need it.

1/5, actually …

Well of course pigs can fly, given sufficient momentum and trajectory. They don’t glide well and they really suck at landings.

a giant catapult would help

attributed to Ratzinger:

An analysis of the phenomenon of liberation theology reveals that it constitutes a fundamental threat to the faith of the Church.

not a believer but i’m a big fan of the catholic workers and liberation theology(ies) in general.

There are reasons that I do not pursue the study of religion academically (other than not believing in it personally). I have picked up bits and pieces from around the world and considerably more from Native North America (my area specialty), but am far from an expert on the topic. My favorite bit of religious lore is from the Pima, who killed their god when he became a despotic tyrant.

Reference? I don’t have the Koran where I am now, but have very distinct impression that women get 1/2 or 1/3 inheritance vs. men, and ditto testimony in court. Where does your 1/5 come from?

Gotta luv Ratzinger. Not.

Tbogg has a new post up at the mothership…

Must be powers gained from my Catholic baptism or sumthin, but I have this amazing ability to predict how any Klinton Krew will run a campaign. Last week I said here that Terry MacAuliffe’s Web site will be “hacked” soon, and that Brian Moran “goons” will harass Terry’s campaign somehow. The second just happened, so unexplained Web site “issues” will soon follow:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..67751.html

Hillary shill Mo Elleithee of course has to give some childish rant for good measure. Man, what I wouldn’t give for all these names to leave the political scene for good.

Of course, this is as easy as predicting that the sun will rise in the East.

Evenin’ eCAHN … I blame Rachel for making me forget my manners … *g*

In their Courts, 5 women have to bear witness against a man for the opposing view to be given weight in the Court.

I do not have a specific reference, just accounts from acquaintances of both sexes, who’ve been in those Courts.

The inheritance is 1/2 share for daughters and a full share for sons under Shari’a, which was a progressive reform over prevailing custom at the time, which was nothing. Also applies to all children legitimate or not. I believe that the wife also go a full share, but can’t remember. Don’t know about the other.

Sometime in the middle ages the view on women changed to the status that women were lower than the donkey who toils ……

I think it was a classic case of transference. I remember reading some medieval French sermons and how they railed against women blaming them through Eve for bringing sin into the world. They were so over the top they were hysterical. I am also reminded that into the Renaissance misogyny was quite the thing. In France, in the 16th century they had what they called the querelle des femmes which basically revolved around the question of whether women had souls (it was generally considered that they didn’t.)

If it was every blastula is sacred, they couldn’t oppose hormonal contraception or Plan B. It’s zygotes, every zygote a human bean…

every sperm is sacred

Nah, just ova. They ain’t never gonna stop wanking.

Fuck the pope, that old creepy nazi.

Poached or ova easy?

Ova done, I do believe.

Hugh !

Thanks for going back to our talk the other day, during Geithner’s mind- numbing presser.

I don’t deal in the same fields as you experts but I got a strange feeling that Timmy’s pensive speech was being read as a reversal by the people in control of Wall Street and they didn’t like what they heard.

I like to ask other “fallen away” (remember that?) catholics about the event or circumstance that enabled their release from obedience to that authority. I also like ask the same question of those who were raised republican, who were lost and now are found. Libruls need to know how to help. Are there any serious studies?

This is just another episode of “Please Don’t Confuse Me With the Facts (My Mind’s Already Made Up.”

We had another episode here in New Mexico. SB 12 has been hung up in the Senate Judicial Committee. SB 12 would establish domestic partnerships as an alternative to ‘marriage.’ It would be open to any two adults who wanted to establish a Domestic Partnership and would entitle them to most of the legal rights/responsibilities that ‘married’ couples have.

The bill was tied up because Senator Martinez (D-Espanola) sided with the GOoP and voted against the bill, and Senator Sanchez (D-Bernalillo) didn’t vote because she needed to powder her nose or something when the vote was taken. She later said that she would have voted against it, so all the upset people should just get over it.

Enter the ACLU. They hired a very reputable public opinion research firm to survey the Senator’s districts. With a margin of error of +/- 4.9% Research and Polling, Inc found that support for SB 12 was in excess of 60% in both districts. Senator Sanchez said she was through talking about SB-12, and Senator Martinez said the question was rigged to get the answer the ACLU wanted.

Yesterday, Senator Sanchez relented and called for another vote, voted in favor of passing the bill so the whole Senate could consider and debate the issue. Sometimes reality slaps pols in the face like a wet fish.

Republicans don’t do reality too well.

*cough cough*

from wikipedia:

On 25 November 1981, Pope John Paul II named Ratzinger Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Holy Office, the historical Inquisition. Consequently, he resigned his post at Munich in early 1982. He was promoted within the College of Cardinals to become Cardinal Bishop of Velletri-Segni in 1993, was made the College’s vice-dean in 1998 and dean in 2002.

In office, Ratzinger fulfilled his institutional role, defending and reaffirming Catholic doctrine, including teaching on topics such as birth control, homosexuality, and inter-religious dialogue. Leonardo Boff, for example, was suspended, while others were censured. Other issues also prompted condemnations or revocations of rights to teach: for instance, some posthumous writings of Jesuit priest Anthony de Mello were the subject of a notification. Ratzinger and the Congregation viewed many of them, particularly the later works, as having an element of religious indifferentism (i.e., Christ was “one master alongside others”).

The Congregation is best known for its authority over the teaching of Church doctrine, but it also has jurisdiction over other matters, including cases involving the seal of the confessional, clerical sexual misconduct and other matters, in its function as what amounts to a court. In his capacity as Prefect, Ratzinger’s 2001 letter “Crimen Sollicitationis” which clarified the confidentiality of internal Church investigations into accusations made against priests of certain crimes, including sexual abuse, became a target of controversy during the sex abuse scandal.[14] While bishops hold the secrecy pertained only internally, and did not preclude investigation by civil law enforcement, the letter was often seen as promoting a coverup.[15]

You may have been one once, but you have since seen the light and joined the reality based community. ;-)

LOL! but is there a monty python skit?

Suz !

Sorry I missed you at your daylight post.

Premarital sex and contraception — it was 1970, and hell, I was off to college!

Don’t think even the BBC could go quite that far. 8-)

i had to wake up early to join in – wish i wudda had more coffee on board before i started

I think stock markets are at a point where they would like some certainty, or at least a believable direction that policy is going in. But the stimulus is too small and Geithner’s plans too vague so they are left scared and unsure where the bottom is.

I think the Pythoners got it right, Dr.D.

… or maybe some Irish Coffee …

wudda put me right back to sleep dood

Usually did.

But Sanchez and Martinez were D(ull)emocrats, Dick.

Probably why they eventually were persuaded by reality. Did not intend that only Republicans are reality averse, far too many on the D side as well. It is just that it is now a requirement to belong to the Republican Party.

I was 19, summer 1954, whiling away a Sunday afternoon in the army post library, ran across Russell’s “Why I am not a christian”. Never forgot that day that set the ball rolling. But full release, if there is such a thing, took a while.

I’ve been two timing FDL ….. found a Kidney cancer chat Tuesday evenings talking with other patients and cancer care givers…… it was really fun and they answered some of my questions…..

Btw I coughed up another forker yesterday afternoon……

Yes, those sudden moments can take a while!

woohoo – cough all the forkers out katymine – did your doctor confirm they were forkers and not healthy lung you were coughing up?

Lung tissue has a different look….. I’ve seen lungs…. question if I should have taken it to the oncologist so they could run a pathology on it….

Oh, finding a group for support is so wonderful. Happy for you.

you should

Time for bed. Have young minds to corrupt in the morning. Got the week off to a good start this morning talking about traditional transgender statuses (third, fourth, or more genders). Eyes got really big when I talked about the Chuckchee’s 7 genders (so far as I know the current world record).

I’m loosing my hair…… not tons just a few strands a day….. have pretty thick hair and usually do a layer cut. Have hair in the bed, sink, in my brush every day…. making very sad face… :(

(((katy))) i think you will look forking hawt bald – you have the face and bone structure for it

g’nite dr dick – enjoy the corrupting

katymine, I’m with Suzanne in 107. Absolutely! It will grow back.

in the chat they said it would grow back but it will be blond or the skunk look with stripped of old color and the new…..

or it come in curly when it used to be straight – or straight when it used to be curly.

you will have a second chance at getting the hair you have always wanted instead of the hair you have.

Did everyone go away? I posted a comment over on tbogg and it was nearly 15 minutes ago….

Wow, I did not know that. If it is blonde, make it really blonde!. In fact, whatever the color, make it all blonde.

the curly already started…… my bangs grew in with flips and are a pain in the but to tame it……

sometimes when we have a cross post, pups go surfing

the drug takes all the color out of the hair from what I hear, kind of a transparent blond, does the same with body hair….. :0

my hair is so straight it could be used as a level – i always wanted thick curly hair instead of this baby fine straight stuff

but when the drug stops, doesn’t the color change stop?

Will ES be here tonight?

tonight is my nite for lln katy – es will be back tomorrow night

Ya’knooooooow… that thing about blondes… not necessarily universal.
Besides, and I know this, kaytmine’s hair is pretty damned cool. So when it comes back, perhaps she can be raven-haired.

Hey katymine, glad you’re progressing.

and Suz – great thread today!

Since I was told I would be on the drug until I die, didn’t get to that question…. talked to someone who has had 34 cycles of my chemo …… wow…

(blushing) thanks newton – i wish i wudda been a wee bit more awake

wow – i did not know that it was a forever drug – thought it was a cycle that once ya got through it, it was over.

Being raven-haired myself… Hiya newtonuser! But, I’ve been blonde in those crazy afore mentioned 1970 college days.

What Suzanne said, Katy.

Seriously. Call the onco’s office and ask what to do to preserve it for the path lab. I’m guessing dropping it in everclear (95% ethanol) is probably the right thing, but it’s best to check.

I put two new photos on my facebook ….. you will get a chuckle out of them

i was born with jet black hair and by the time i was two, it was very blonde. when i was 6, it had darkened to a strawberry blonde and eventually settled as mouse brown. i’m liking my gray that is not gray but silver strands – a nice change.

34 cycles? Wow, indeed. Hang in there, kid, you can do it too.

love the oh crap one – and the girls blogging is a hoot

The best advice from the chat room was that most of the patients take their chemo at bedtime thinking that they would sleep through their side effects. Going to try it that way IF I can remember to take all the pills. Sounding like a granny….. Oh I am one….

i know women who take their birth control pills at night to sleep through the nausea the pill gives them. seems to work for them

This from people who protect child molesters. Give me a break. How does anyone take the catholic church serious?

Saw my cardiologist today, MUGA scan came back perfect, my heart is super duper healthy but put me on blood pressure pills to prevent possible damage from the chemo. So for someone who went from a few vitamins and thyroid pill to bottles and bottles of meds. Take drug X and need Y & Z for the side effects of X.

sucks but…. glad you are around to take all those pills hon

and yay for the perfect super duper healthy heart

There is a lot the church has done that cannot be forgiven. The removal of children from Irish families, the export of Irish children to OZ who had perfectly good parents in the UK. The abuse at some of those orphan schools in OZ and that was in the 19/20 century……

I do appreciate every day…… the ability to taste food ….. went out to lunch and had a salmon caesar salad and found a new book to read….

the good things – only the good things for you katy :) i find good things in the small things – the lights of a crab boat on the ocean on the other side of the spit – the bright stars in the sky.

The big dipper is over my house most of the year……. when I at our hotel in Crete….. the big dipper is over our hotel…… The moon rise has been spectacular lately and it is a joy to go out and pick a fresh orange off of one of my own trees…. Nothing like watching the moon rise over the Med sea….

nature’s gifts – eye candy and good for the soul

late late nite 2 flights up

Actually, he’d rather you call him “Al”.

I think the “Senator-Elect” nonsense is for all formal communications…

I’ll wait patiently until the day i can confidently call him Senator Franken.