Perfect critique and analysis buy Ms Hamsher.

You need to be read over there at 1600.

by Ms Hamsher… she’s not selling her counsel as far as I can tell. hahaha

I think Obama wants to do the right thing.

The left needs to make him to the right thing.

FDR’s formulation has not changed.

I also believe, however, that Obama is willing to see the GOP establish a record of obstructionist behavior in response to his requests for good faith negotiations, as part of a longer term strategic goal.

Either Republican leaders work with him, and face the wrath of the crazies in their base, or they entrench themselves as representing only the crazies.

Obama gains either way.

An abstract goal with fungible components that valued process above all else.

This Obama apologist bows at your grasp of the core of the burgeoning chaos. Truly. I’ll even Digg it!!

Obama was a bit naive going into this battle. He will not be equally naive next time.

There will be room for some “bipartisan” legislation later on down the road. For the moment- it’s tooth and nail.

My only hope is that BO planned to let them dig a great big obstructionist hole for themeselves and then slap them down. “I tried bipartisan but you only want political business as usual — it’s back to the drawing board, the new plan has no tax cuts”

Jane, you are right. Once again the country seems to have voted for something it is not going to get. One reason the Dems are weak is that they feed at the same trough as the Repubs. They need campaign contributions. They will not alienate campaign contributors even though they know the contributors grease both sides of the aisle. We need alternatives to the present system. Obama may or may not come to realize he cannot win the game he seems to be playing. Where does that leave us?

Re: TV coverage.

Obama is doing the campaigning on stimulus by himself because Congressional Dems are not up to the task.

On economic matters, other than Sen. Dodd and Rep. Barney Frank, no competent, articulate Dems walk the halls of Congress.

obama has to avoid one of the biggest mistakes he can make with his stimulous package;

it cannot be too small

if it is too small and loses confidence then no matter how big the next bill is there will be NO confidence

economic strength requires confidence and obama is giving that up with his “bi-particent” bill

once again we have a president who seems to look at the playbook for failure and follow those pages

I am left with only one hope, that’s the fact that fdr started out the same way, against social programs solving the economic issues

hopefully obama’s learning curve will be shorter then fdr’s

Yes. Now if only the White House would read this and understand it.

blockquote>

obama’s formulation does not approach fdr’s, in those dollars this bill would be a couple of trillion dollars, by contrast this bill is smaller then bush’s bill that created the problem in the first place

Good commentary Jane. I hope Obama learns a lesson from what’s happened on this bill but I bet all of those “centrists” he surrounds himself with will do their best to keep him ignorant.

On another note, in case you didn’t know it Wikileaks has posted all kinds of reports from the CRS (Congressional Research Servicde) that are usually not available to the public. I don’t know if there are any bombshells contained in the reports but a lot of the titles are quite interesting.

Despite CRS costs to the tax payer of over $100M a year, its electronic archives are, as a matter of policy, not made available to the public.
Individual members of Congress will release specific CRS reports if they believe it to assist them politically, but CRS archives as a whole are firewalled from public access.

click here

I am pretty sure we give license without threat of plaguer ism so let’s get them cracking

I don’t know if I think it was naivite, I think he believed that what worked in the election would work in sausage-making. But I agree that he will adapt quickly, the campaign showed he has the ability to right errors and adjust with skill and speed.

It’s impossible to micromanage the running of a country, however. It’s several of his advisers that I’m worried about, and he can’t swap them in and out without consequence.

DIGG it.

I tried clicking on the link I added in my previous post and it didn’t work.

Here is the link again.

Undermining His Own Mandate For the Sake of Bipartisanship

‘zactly. i mean, he talked about bipartisanshipa nd reaching across the aisle alot during the campaign. argument can be made that he had a mandate to foster a bipartisan atmosphere. But he can’t do that himself. it’s a 2 way street and the R’s aren’t interested. Also, fixing the economy – and not just giving tax breaks – was a far more imporatant mandate (even if fostering bipartisanship can be termed a mandate. Dling what’s right and best ffor the country as a whole always comes first.

And 80 votes????? what, if anything, in God’s name was he thinking?

So, how are we te netroots going to mobilize?

Here’s an interesting letter.

Dynamic forces are transforming the world. Increasing global competition, economic crises, and environmental and resource pressures are rewriting the rules for how America produces jobs, builds wealth, and conserves our natural heritage…The nation’s economic crisis requires attention to the principal drivers of prosperity—infrastructure, human capital and innovation. If leveraged and deployed strategically, these assets can help us achieve short-term job gains, keep pace with the increasing size and diversity of America’s population and move our nation toward durable prosperity,

Just an additional note here.

Nationally $ 56.7 billion infrastructure projects are shovel ready and could be going in 120 days.

While $136 billion would be shovel ready in 24 months. This all from our nation’s governors – a bipartisan bunch. Perhaps we should mobilize on the bipartisan governors bandwagon and confron the bipartisan efforts of Congress and the President.

If my math is correct, the bill has 9 billion in public transportation and 30 billion in highway infrastructure investment.

The addition 25 billion the Senate voted down would have given the total for the “shovel ready” projects. Hmmm…That vote made a boatload of sense.

Or maybe it’s because Obama rebuffed his base in favor of Rethugs who were never going to give him an inch to begin with. Now they’re leaving him on his own. It’s not as if he doesn’t deserve it for throwing out their throw away bargaining tools before negotiations even began!

fdr had more people in congress with him, didn’t he? i don’t know. did he?

It’s several of his advisers that I’m worried about,…

does one of them have the initials Rahm Emanuel?

There is no inherent value in bipartisanship, it’s the means to an end. If the administration doesn’t define what that “end” is and gives the Republicans the power to determine success or failure by a simple refusal to participate, they will continue to do so.

I made this point yesterday at the book salon;

pulling toward the political center when you have a goal is the same thing as pulling toward the center in football, you will never ever score that goal

in addition, these “political centrists” are not centrists at all, they are wing nuts who are NOT at the center if what this country wants

the right wing has been successful redefining the center to be something extremely right wing

unless it’s a draw play

Bipartisan or effective, take your pick, Mr. President

Watching this debacle pretty much out of the gate, with so critical a bill, is just mind-numbing. Obama seems to be willing to sacrifice the economy for his BS bipartisan philosophy.

My point at 18 is that we can throw the “bipartisan” rhetoric right back at Congress and the President by siding with the Governors who stated they higher budget needs than the bill begins to address. In this case, I think bipartisan talk could be effective…siding with the governors.

Good commentary Jane. I hope Obama learns a lesson from what’s happened on this bill but I bet all of those “centrists” he surrounds himself with will do their best to keep him ignorant.

On another note, in case you didn’t know it Wikileaks has posted all kinds of reports from the CRS (Congressional Research Servicde) that are usually not available to the public. I don’t know if there are any bombshells contained in the reports but a lot of the titles are quite interesting.

Despite CRS costs to the tax payer of over $100M a year, its electronic archives are, as a matter of policy, not made available to the public.
Individual members of Congress will release specific CRS reports if they believe it to assist them politically, but CRS archives as a whole are firewalled from public access.

Here is the link (in my previous post there was a bad link).

they higher budget needs than the bill begins to address

Meant to type:

the higher budget needs…

AND THE KILLIN’ JUST GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Today is the day we find out if we have Frederick Douglas or a watered down version of Colin Powell sittin in the White House…in his speeches today he should take the gloves off, speak directly to the hundreds of thousands of Indiana common folks who are dyin’ slowly in the dark, and stand firmly behind the House version of the stimulus. If he doesn’t we’re in for a terrible two years and a fascist resurgence in 2010.

Your analysis is, as usual, right on the mark…I like the way you think.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, LOOKS LIKE WE’RE GUNNA NEED SOME DIRECT ACTION BEFORE THIS IS ALL DONE!!

You write: “But the biggest ground he gave up to the Republicans was control of the primary objective he set for the bill, that it have “bipartisan” support. As one veteran DC political observer notes…”

This is insane. Obama campaigned on, among other things, changing the tone in Washington, reaching across traditional “red-state” and “blue-state” battle lines — and a middle-class tax cut.

He had to begin his administration by following through on these pledges. So, in part, he is fulfilling his campaign promises.

But he’s doing something more. He’s giving the Repubs a chance to act intelligently and show that they place “country first” (to use a phrase from someone’s recent campaign). They (the Repubs) are exposing themselves as stupid, ignorant, selfish, petty obstructionists. As time goes by, all this will sink in (in spite of the talk on Morning Joe and posts such as yours).

Oh, and Obama is going to win. Note, by the way, that the bill will be much larger than was being talked about during the transition period. Also note that it has been a long time since we saw the legislative process, with attention paid not only to the minority in Congress but also to the majority, and — like sausage making — it ain’t pretty. A reminder: the “primary objective” was never “bipartisan support.” It was, is, and will always be to pass the bill. Duh.

So are the Dems going to get serious about selling a half ass Stimulus? Or are they just going through the motions?
Any chance that we can scrap this thing? We have bigger majorities we can kill this bill to that and we can start using our power to pressure the GOP senators.
A tax on 1/2 the profits on beer that cannot be passed on to the consumer seems a like a great way to Pressure Cindy McCain.
And we all know who controls the purse in that family, arguing against Sin taxes is a harder sell for the GOP base.

Hey, Norske!

this is off topic but important;

Gitmo Detainee’s ‘Genitals Were Sliced With A Scalpel,’ Waterboarding ‘Far Down The List Of Things They Did’»

that’s right, bringing someone to the throws of death was FAR down the road of their depravity

and obama is “bi-particent” going to ignore the crimes

As the American people had to endure 8 years of Bush it’s looking like Americans will now be forced to endure 4 years of Obama.

Once upon a time, my Net moniker was Raging Swede. My alter ego. *g*

Hey Sister Barbara…hang in there kid.

Obama had a pollyana view of how many gooper votes were available to him- maybe it wasn’t Naive- but it was certainly a miscalculation. Had he been properly prepared, he would have known that this was going to be close all the way with the goal being to force the usual gooper moderates on board. Had he approached it that way, it might have ended up a rather different bill- but we’ll never know. One thing is for sure, he can’t push whatever he wants through the senate at this stage. He’ll need sixty votes for anything controversial and he’s got a few dems who will waffle on some issues….

Obama needs to be taking notes for the health care battle that will be even worse than this. He’ll have to please Specter and the Maine twins first right out of the box

LOOKS LIKE WE’RE GUNNA NEED SOME DIRECT ACTION BEFORE THIS IS ALL DONE!!

Isn’t that always the case? O-man’s constant encouragement and tech support of community action, including this weekend’s house party deal about the economy, is basically the main reason I got behind him and think we’re heading in the right direction.

I have to wonder:
1) could the O. Admin. be that stupid? (sadly, I think so)
2) or are they intentionally allowing the Repubs. to hold this up, in order to theoretically drive the Repubs. further in to negative opinion territory.
If 2 is the case, that would be equally bad or worse: the troubles mounting up on real people multiply every day. This is not a game!

Citizen barbara:

“Swede” huh? Well, we won’t hold that against ya…like the National Guard , we need all the foot soldiers we ken get. Welcome to the foxhole, dear.

Thats 2 more than the GOP have but they do have several liars good at spin fighting against us…well they are good as long as they are not confronted or the weasel Dem Talking Head folds before their imaginary facts.
Real Dems on TV Now! What is called the Liberal position on TV is really the Center Position and the Center is not Holding.

no the primary objective is not to get a bad bill passed but to SAVE THE ECONOMY. As most sane economists point out it’s not sufficient to do that.

a more complete snippet;

The 25 lines edited out of the court papers contained details of how Mr Mohamed’s genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding, the controversial technique of simulated drowning, “is very far down the list of things they did,” the official said.

Somehow I don’t think a melanin-enhanced man from a very modest childhood, who cut his teeth community organizing, and rising rapidly through the ranks of the Chicago political machine, only to bypass it completely for higher office as America’s first melanin-enhanced President, while fighting off the DLC, Conglomerate Media, and Repub machines, is naive.

Dunno…just me.

and in fact passing a bad bill is worse then not passing a bill since the bad bill will make any future bills far less effective

Agree completely. Governing is much different than running a campaign, and yes, I sure hope he knows what he’s doing by surrounding himself with so many vipers.

Great post Jane, thanks. By the way, weren’t all of us DFHs told that the reason we had to sit down and shut up about all the political insiders nominated by Obama was that he needed to get experienced people to “get stuff done”? I can understand Obama whiffing on his first major piece of legislation given his relative inexperience — but weren’t all those insiders supposed to prevent exactly this kind of mishandling of the message and the process? Wasn’t that the point?

So if this is all we get from all these experienced people, what say we just tell them to go brush up on their resumes a bit more, while we bring in people with new and better ideas. I would be able to tolerate the political mishaps from such people a bit better.

My Norwegian uncle used to intone the following when we’d get into our Norske/Svenska corners: Ten tousand Svedes came trough da veeds to lick vun sick Norvegian.

If goopers stay together, they can block ANY legislation in the senate…Dems are one vote shy of total control. Like it or not, they are going to have to compromise with goopers or they will lose.

LOL while nodding head vigorously.

Is that Franken’s vote?

Not if the goopers feel the heat from back home for being obstructionists.

I’m not sure I understand your argument. Obama had to follow through on a campaign pledge to honor “bipartisanship” — but it’s “insane” to say he did so.

If you define “win” as “pass any bill regardless of what it contains,” I agree, he will “win.” Whether that counts as a “win” for the country is I think what people are worried about.

here’s an interesting update which we should get on;

UpdateToday in San Francisco, “a little-publicised court case into the treatment of Mohamed will open” in federal court. Andrew Sullivan notes that “we’ll find out if the Obama administration intends to keep the evidence as secret as the Bush administration did.”

No- Franken will give them 59.

Here’s hoping someone responsible for checking the blogs for Obama sees this wonderful and accurate description of Republican ‘bipartisanship’ from John Cole….

I really don’t understand how bipartisanship is ever going to work when one of the parties is insane. Imagine trying to negotiate an agreement on dinner plans with your date, and you suggest Italian and she states her preference would be a meal of tire rims and anthrax. If you can figure out a way to split the difference there and find a meal you will both enjoy, you can probably figure out how bipartisanship is going to work the next few years.

as part of a longer term strategic goal.

That goal will be achieved when the economy is in a depression. Congrats PBO.

Gampa Ole used ta sing “ten thousandt Swedes came true da weeds chasin’ one Norwegian…and they’re still out there.”

I was one of the people arguing that he had the right to have the people surrounding him that he wanted to, but that it meant he had to take responsibility when they did stuff that didn’t work out so well.

I think what has happened with this bill opens the door for a valid critique on that front.

i would draw an alogy with the remark in the Innagural speech about extending a hand to hostile countries if they will unclench their fists. Returning dialogue to foreign policy was a campaign promise. Bringing bipartisan ship to Washington was a campaign promise. But the R’s wanna fight. Yeah, bipartisanship. Fine. But they gotta unclench their fists first.

I guess trashing the economy is not an impeachable offense.

Another source familiar with the case said: “British intelligence officers knew about the torture and didn’t do anything about it.”

“It is very clear who stands to be embarrassed by this and who is being protected by this secrecy. It is not the Americans, it is Labour ministers,” former shadow home secretary David Davis said. But one unnamed U.S. House Judiciary Committee member told the Telegraph that if President Obama “doesn’t act we could hold a hearing or write to subpoena the documents. We need to know what’s in those documents.”

Mohamed remains at Guantanamo Bay and “is currently on hunger strike.” “All terror charges against him were dropped last year,” the Telegraph reported.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/…..ure-uk-us/

We need this on the MSM now! We need people to push to get Bush indited as a war criminal.
I want the Bushies to deny that they had any knowledge. I want the CIA fearing for their own saftey to start leaking. I want a truth Commission.
I want prosecution of the top people. Arrest the Bushies sieze their papers now!

I like that analogy. Sometimes I border on profundity and it scares me.

One thing is for sure, he can’t push whatever he wants through the senate at this stage. He’ll need sixty votes for anything controversial

This excerpt indicates how much ground Obama’s already ceded, on two points. First of all, the notion that we need a big jobs/spending bill is not “controversial”. Second, he and his party have never explained just why 60 votes are supposedly necessary for this bill. Not only do they not call the Republican bluff and have them stage a Southern-fried freak-show filibuster to further repel the public, they don’t even utter the word “filibuster” or assign responsibility for this parliamentary obstructionism.

and profound peope don’t have to know how to type or spell.

before the election we talked a lot about phil gramm and what a disaster he would be as an economic advisor. imo larry summers is almost as bad – and obama is getting a lot of bad advice from him, geithner, cass sunstein, etc.

Revolution is always a possibility and with a bad stimulus bill the only question is will it be the 22%ers or us 70%ers.
We might have to start distancing ourselves from Obama like Newt distanced himself from Bush 1.

Well, do you think that he does NOT need sixty votes?

Dunno…just me.

Uhh no, it’s not just you.

Now there is at least two; I couldn’t agree more.

Agree or disagree with the strategy in play, but he’s certainly not naive.

At this point it appears that he could be getting economic advice from God and he still wouldn’t have 60 votes. He needs POLITICAL advice!

he has been as bipatisan as i think he should be i was sick of the repubs after the second day after all they were the ones along with bush who created this mess

you are more generous to obama than i am. in my book obama has just as much right to have larry summers head his economic team as bush did to have alberto gonzales head the doj. iow, none at all – not when there is so much at stake for the rest of us.

He’s probably getting his political advice from Summers too.

i am not sure you know what ignorant is unless you stand face to face with bush

[Mod note; Comment edited by Moderator. Please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]

I think Obama has a good heart. But everybody has their weaknesses. Obama’s is pride. And strangely, it manifests itself by taking pride in what he believes to be his humility. In this case he allowed his in pride in what he imagines to be his ability to be conciliatory to interfere with an creating and implementing the most effective strategy to reinvigorate the economy. Since Obama is also very self reflective, maybe he’ll see what he’s done and not repeat the same error. I hope so.

When you factor in a 2:1 advantage for the Republicans in terms of TV face time, it’s clear that they already have a leg up in controlling the terms of this debate.

And yet, according to the latest Gallup report, they are losing the public opinion debate, and decisively.

I note that while the Democrats opinion ratings isn’t quite as startospheric as Obama’s, the public still views them more favorably than the Republicans, who are quickly sinking into Bush/Cheney territory.

But he’s doing something more. He’s giving the Repubs a chance to act intelligently and show that they place “country first” (to use a phrase from someone’s recent campaign). They (the Repubs) are exposing themselves as stupid, ignorant, selfish, petty obstructionists. As time goes by, all this will sink in (in spite of the talk on Morning Joe and posts such as yours).

If the Gallup poll is any indication, it has sunk in already. In the present case, this puts the Democrats in an excellent position torestore at least some of the stuff taken out of the bill by the Damnable Centrists*. Of course, this is Harry Reid’s Senate, so our hopes of rescuing the bill may have to rest on the conference committee and the House.

Well, do you think that he does NOT need sixty votes?

That’s how I’m betting. Let’s call their bluff and find out.

Obama’s is pride. And strangely, it manifests itself by taking pride in what he believes to be his humility.

I’d call it “arrogance.” And, yes, he’s very proud of his humility.

How’s it hangin?

I’ll admit, I was not a happy camper about the All-Establishment Team ; ) But I have to say, that even I am surprised at how badly the stimulus bill has been handled. And, I’m not exactly holding my breath for Timmy’s big show and tell tomorrow, either.

I think your analysis is spot on when you describe bipartisanship as a means to an end. It is not an accomplishment in its own right. Perhaps if we complain loudly enough, Obama will redirect his focus to achieving specific policy goals rather than fretting over who is willing to help him do so.

We need this on the MSM now!

I wrote a diary

Is there any empirical evidence available that tells us if any of the really good blogs (FDL, TPM, and a few others) are being read by those in power? I’m wondering if that might have any effect. Does this stuff get forwarded to Capitol Hill? (This presupposes, of course, that these people can read.)

Obama’s base of support is the African American vote and Us Lefties we were never on board for all this compromise.
But Obama can swing the African American vote without which no Democrat can win Nationally.
So lets threaten that hold on African American votes. As the Details of the Stimulus emerge we look for cuts in infrastructure jobs and especially cuts that would effect urban areas.
Then we look at the tax cuts how much of that money will go to rich whites?
Compare and contrast the Original Stimulus, Our plan No tax cuts, and the current plan.
The Brother is trying to hard to be liked/white.
Threaten his power base and he will move Left to defend it. Hilary ignored the Antiwar vote because she thought she could reach out to the Center.
Obama is forgetting his base now so lets remind him.

well, i suck at political advice but here goes anyway –

the Rs in congress are batshit crazy. they are going to attack any plan obama offers, even it is designed by grover norquist.

that means there is no way to sell the Rs in congress anything, good or bad. so, obama needs to sell his plan to the country – and not focus on the Rs in congress.

but if obama wants the support of the country, he needs a really good economic plan, one that is so good it inspires people. it’s much harder to sell the nation crap than a good plan that is well explained.

If goopers continue to obstruct, they will eventually pay a price, but the wages of that sin don’t come due for months. They know that if Obama is going to get substantial things done- it will be in THIS congress- so they are willing to take a hickey to block him…

Obama now needs to decide on how to play his cards. He can ape Bush and work to push everything through by taking a few goopers with him on every issue- or he can try to force the goopers to dig in and destroy themselves with the public- among other strategies. Once he plays the Bush cards, the goopers will be seen as having a right to obstruct..

How bout this, if one Senator from a state votes against it, that state get’s 50% of the allotment for that state. Both against, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA.

Just a quick aside, Kagro X explained the other day why 60 votes are needed on the stimulus bill.

i’m not convinced, as a procedural matter, obama does need 60 votes.

That’s what Bush did- or thought he did- and it’s apparently the tack Obama is taking now- going to states where gooper senators may be vulnerable and drawing attention to their behavior.

Your advice presupposes that the american people can tell a good plan from a bad one- or that the media would sing the praises of an Obama plan as long as it was “good”. This, it seems, supposes facts not in evidence.

If he wants to achieve any of his objectives I think he has to be willing to fight them on the beaches, right now. Otherwise, he’s going to be portrayed as the new Jimmy Carter and they will know they have everything to gain, politically, from doing more of the same.

I agree, and would add that Obama’s batshitcrazy too, for even trying.

Yeah I remember that you were talking about “changing the rules” and that it is your opinion that this can be done without going to “the nuclear option” but I don’t understand how that is to be done. Do you have a good link that goes through the senate rules involved in making that transition?

(((Beerfart!!)))

Anything that requires legislation is still subject to the sixty vote problem- even gooper punishment.

i asked some questions in that thread, which is why i think there may be a way to get around the point-of-order issue that requires 60 votes. but it would mean removing the tax cuts from the bill (how sad is that *g*) and submitting the bill as an emergency spending bill.

not sure this would work – i don’t know enough about the laws involved – but i have yet to hear a reason why it could not.

The problems with the notion of driving the Repubs further into negative territory are:

1. The administration is playing dice with people’s lives.
2. The right-wingers are much more skilled at working the MSM (sad to say).
3. The public’s memory is very short. As item #2 is a fact, when we are thrashing around in the throes of economic catastrophe, BO and the Demo-controlled congress will be the fall guys. And guess what happens in 2010? And then in 2012?

Fuckin’ idiots.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. W did it all the time.

(((Barbara!!!!)))

If they insist on fighting, then they need to be slapped back. Hard.

Your advice presupposes that the american people can tell a good plan from a bad one- or that the media would sing the praises of an Obama plan as long as it was “good”. This, it seems, supposes facts not in evidence.

for all my criticism of obama, i actually think he is a very gifted speaker – that he, at this moment, could make the case himself. people trust him now and i think are willing to listen. but it would require really explaining what is going on and what he wants to do about it. no more empty phrases as he’s been giving us. real substance is required – just like the best teachers can give a lecture that both enthralls and educates a hall full of students.

Obama’s up.

Yes! And we make the anouncment public so that Senators Voters hear that their Senator just cost them jobs!

Forcing the goopers to actually filibuster seems like a good plan at this stage- but not even the goopers tried it during the days of the Crawford, captivity. There must be a reason why they did not. Anyone know? Must be a landmine buried in there somewhere.

Have you seen Jon Stewart’s mock of Obama’s speaking skills? He either has the dial set on 100 or set on zero.

Obama is at his best with lofty rhetoric that is essentially fact free. It’s hard to soar with fifty seven specific talking points- but I agree that he must sell and educate.

“Millions of more jobs will be lost if we don’t act immediately.”

Got news for you PBO, millions of more jobs will be lost even if you do act immediately.

Obama is at his best with lofty rhetoric that is essentially fact free.

Agree. That’s why I always feel blah blah blah when I listen to him.

Ah but the GOP states need Federal money that can be frozen delayed etc.
Also more Red States get more from the Feds than they pay in. Threaten that announce on the news that Obama wants federal cash given to the states in direct proportion to the taxes that they pay in to the federal Government.
The Blue states will be happy the red states scared. We might not get it passed but I want the GOP on the news arguing for more welfare for their states.

there are two issues re 60 votes, at least as i understand it at this moment – the filibuster and the point-of-order.

about a month ago i was thinking about writing a diary on changing the filibuster rule – did some reading, but put it aside because the more i read the more complicated my own thinking got. i don’t want to pitch the rule altogether, i just want one that will work, which i don’t think the current rule does. but it’s still not clear to me what i think the best solution is. i’ll revisit the idea of writing a diary but maybe just as a way to lay out the question and provide some reference links. maybe people here can come up with some good ideas where my imagination has failed to.

is that the episode you recommended to me? i downloaded it from itunes but then completely forgot to watch it!

Actually there has been a rise in the approval ratings of the Republican Congress in the Gallup Poll taken in December until now:

December 2008 — 25% approval

February 2009 — 31% approval

I don’t think that qualifies as “sinking.”

Nuclear option
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

Yep–me too. It was why I got more out of listening to Hillary- she tends to actually say something.

Still- “fact free” is tried and true politically. It offends no one.

Nope. It was another episode. Played clips of the “best” followed by snooze inducing clips of the “others.” The one they’re playing live on cspan is not in the bests. His speaking skills fall apart when he has to include facts.

i may have to concede the point to you. i’m getting blah, blah, blah too.

blah.

Ideas on how Obama can get what he wants by not being bipartisan

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/3315

if you know what day it was on, i’ll download that one too. haven’t watched any stewart in a long time and could use a few laughs.

Or, contrast Obama’s speaking skills with Clinton’s. Clinton could tell you 100 things and make amazing connections and still have you sitting on the edge of your chair. Obama not so much.

i don’t think the nuclear option applies now – the Ds have more than a simple majority.

I have no idea. Watch the one you already downloaded. It was funnier.

clinton makes my skin crawl. despise him.

Sorry.

The nuclear option can work `even if we have the super majority to cut off debate and some dems have shown their DINO selves. What happens next is the question.

The fix is in as far as the corporate media collaborating with the GOP and the Orwellesque “centrists” (they are simply right wingers).
It is interesting and at the same time sad to deconstruct the motivations and possible mistakes of Obama & co. Possible mistakes in that maybe this weak bill is what they wanted. Their prime motivation perhaps being the approval of the lordly Villagers.

OMG — that’s hilarious! They need 60 votes because of the tax cuts?!?! The Republican part of the bill is the part that pushed us into 60 vote territory??? The Rethugs are many many things, but dumb is clearly not one of them. They have beaten the Dems over and over again procedurally for 20 years — you would think by now the Dems would have figured out the damn rules!

The stimulus package is consistently being attacked because not enough Republicans support it.

I tend to attack it because it is insufficient to the task but that’s just me.

i *think* so – check out my questions/comments on kagro x’s thread. would love your opinion on it…

Will do, but I’ll get back to you later on it, I’m about to wander away from the toobz for awhile ; )

the nuclear option is a very narrow way of ending the filibuster – but, i think now, there are other options with wider possibilities. damn i guess i’m really going to have to write it up and so folks can poke holes in my argument.

later and thanks! email if you like and still have my email addy.

realize i’m in the minority on that one..

I wish Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald were running this country.
Then we would see some CHANGE we can believe in.

Hey, I wish that you would consider Obama’s original intentions in asking for bipartisanship, which were to get Republicans to also take responsibility for the crisis-spending, so that everyone would have a stake in it together. OK, so maybe this was “idealistic,” but it was the right idea, to supersede politics at this historical moment. The fact that it didn’t work doesn’t put Obama in a bad light, but rather the Republicans who cannot do anything but play politics. They look ridiculous to their own base, even, except the wealthy few (about 25%).

Then it comes to the Centrists, whom the media seem to love for being so resistant and radical, but the more info that is coming out about what was cut from the bill, the more the public is realizing that that was a bust as well. The blogs started putting the info out over the weekend we we could see in all glorious detail what was happening.

Even if the crappy details of this bill go through: esp. the 15,000 credit and the 7000 credit for car buyers, the public has shifted 180 degrees over the course of this experience. If Obama had leaned the way you all are saying–push through the spending bill as Dems want it, use the nuclear option–the Dems would be getting a lot of pushback and would then be blamed for everything that goes wrong from here on out.

Think Zen, think the force of water, think martial arts where it’s not brute force that wins, but steadiness, focus, smart thinking, strategy.

It’s been said already, but who am I to deny you my opinion?

If Obama insists on bipartisanship via negotiation, he’ll be a colossal failure. The Republicans just aren’t that into him.

You’re nothing but a Dirty Fucking Hippie(tm) (so am I) and Rahm Emanuel spits on your analysis.

Yeah… …this is not the change I was hoping for.