Seriously. Per the NYTimes:
Mr. Geithner largely prevailed in opposing tougher conditions on financial institutions that were sought by presidential aides, including David Axelrod, a senior adviser to the president, according to administration and Congressional officials.
Mr. Geithner, who will announce the broad outlines of the plan on Tuesday, successfully fought against more severe limits on executive pay for companies receiving government aid.
He resisted those who wanted to dictate how banks would spend their rescue money. And he prevailed over top administration aides who wanted to replace bank executives and wipe out shareholders at institutions receiving aid.
In other words, taxpayer money will be used to prop up banks. The same executives who caused the problems will be allowed to continue paying themselves huge bonuses for destroying the economy and bankrupting their banks and they won’t be forced to use the money to lend to actual consumers. Nor will shareholders be replaced so that taxpayers investing hundreds of billions and taking on trillions in risk can have all the upside instead of all the upside (yes, they’ll probably get some shares. They should get 100% ownership. You should get 100% ownership. It’s your money Geithner’s spending).
This is the real nub:
It intends to call for the creation of a joint Treasury and Federal Reserve program, at an initial cost of $250 billion to $500 billion, to encourage investors to acquire soured mortgage-related assets from banks.
If private investors wanted to buy such assets, they already could. They don’t, because the prices they want to offer are lower than the prices banks are willing to accept. This cannot work unless Geithner either subsidizes them or guarantees their losses. My bet is that he will in fact guarantee any losses, calling it "insurance". They will leverage up the 250 to 500 billion and use it to insure losses from private investors who buy up the toxic waste. If it goes bad (and it will), you, the taxpayer, won’t be on the hook for 250 to 500 billion, you’ll be on the hook for however much goes bad. And the amount will be in the trillions.
Trillions of dollars will be taken off the banks books with all the risk on taxpayers. And in exchange they will not have to give up their huge salaries or their huge bonuses, the shareholders won’t be wiped out, the creditors won’t take a bath. None of that. The only person who’ll take a bath if it goes all wrong is you – the American taxpayer.
Related posts:
- From Beef to Banks, Negotiating with Corrupt Businesses Undermines Enforcement, Harms People
- The Next Big Taxpayer Bailout? IMF Could Get Hundreds of Billions for European Banks
- Peter DeFazio: Geithner and Summers Should Be Fired
- Why is Timothy Geithner Rejecting Legislative Policy?
- Banks Profit While Loans Drop





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i’m beginning to think that the stimulus bill and all the congressional kabuki surrounding it was never meant to be more than a shiny object to distract us while we are being robbed.
Ian:
Have you read what Josh over at TPM is hearing? Sounds like what they’ll really end up doing is kicking the can down the road. They’ll buy up some toxic assets, but it seems they don’t think it is a good idea asking Congress for more money(knowing they’ll likely lose).
I think it’s time to emigrate.
So I wonder who’ll resign first, Axelrod or Geithner — or Volcker??
I’m reworking my discarded spaceship design from the late 60s right now. It’s that or finishing the time machine….
I saw that. In that regard, was tonight’s presser more rhetoric that will, in the end, signify approximately nothing? While the language was a welcome departure from that which we have been subjected to for the past eight years, I would still submit that talk is cheap. This latest revelation about Geithner’s plan seems to be more of the same. And if kicking the can down the road is the objective, it had better be a pretty good kick and a pretty long road.
shitcan him NOW.. before he can think more stoopid shit … right NOW dammit ..
please, let it be larry summers. that is my wish.
Doesn’t the administration have to get legal authority from congress?
I actually plan on doing just that….. just as soon as i can, um, sell my house.
If true there should be a million people on the Treasury steps demanding Geithner’s removal. The whole town of Elkhart, Indiana, should be bused in.
I’m so glad I have dual citizenship.
As Sam, the king of understatement, once said on West Wing: “This is just bad in so many ways.”
pretty sure our economic problems are going to hit the rest of the world even harder then it is us.
you lucky duck! where?
I second the motion, and I propose another motion that precludes Summers from ascending to the position. In fact, shitcan them both.
This is for the remaining TARP funds isn’t it? Surely they couldn’t get the proposal past congress. The Republicans no longer have any incentive to go along with this.
Who are these idiots. This is unbelievable it is not only good money after bad it is plain old “stealin”. I can’t get my mortgage changed, I got to pay off my credit cards and these a-holes keep getting more and more. How is this a Democracy anymore when only the rich get anything. Democracy is only a vague term for “vote for me while I pick your pocket” I’m getting really pissed.
So tell me, folks. What do ya’ll really think? Is Obama clueless and a dewy-eyed naif or is he in on the deal? Or, and here’s what I really wanna know, Do these guys know we’re actually doomed and they’re throwing money at the top so someone will be left to keep some version of this econ game going after we’re all dead of starvation?
You tell me.
OMG this is so disgusting!
I am actually sick to my stomach thinking about my niece and nephew paying outrageous taxes when they grow up to pay these banker rip-offs back.
Disgusting.
I hear you. Did you read Frank Rich’s thing in the NY Times yesterday about how PISSED everyone is? The blogs following the article were amazing, hundreds and hundreds of pissed off people.
Hey, Ian,
I’ve been avoiding your posts lately ’cause I’m too dispirited to read them. You’re always dead on, and the goings on in Congress are too Bizarro to contemplate. After tonight’s presser I heard the MSNBC White House correspondent say that this was a week too late, suggesting that POTUS should have figgered it out a lot sooner and weighed in heavily before the effing Rebugnicans had a chance to spew their lying bile. Well, I’ve got news for the news guy. If he’d asked me, and you, and probably Pres. Obama, a week ago if we thought the Rethugs could be so obtuse, so out of it, so unswervingly servile to Ruch Limbaugh, we would’ve said “No way!” So, that he’s a week behind the curve can only be put at the feet of the opposition (and the turncoat Democrats like Lieberboy). Fuck MSNBC and fuck the republicans (who don’t deserve to be written like a proper noun).
Keep fighting the good fight,
CanuckStuckinMuck (who’s originally from Vancouver, which, although it stole the team name from a bigoted poem about some Quebecois, nevertheless owns a NHL team named the Canucks, and who is, after all, a Canadian like you!).
Where do you plan to go, what makes you think that place won’t end up worse than here, and how do you get in there at a time like this? I knew we were doomed in early Dec. 2000. That was the time to get going, when the going was (relatively) good. What country will be letting in foreigners when much of their own workforce is idle? How safe will it be to be an American when the country that sinned the most (US) will most likely be the one that suffers the least? Or maybe you’re not an American and you’re just going home. You can run, but you can’t hide.
Why would this Geithner plan look any different that the one he cooked up with Hank Paulson?
Thanks Ian.
digg is open
What happened to the DeLorean ? I thought you fixed the Flux Capacitor …
Do any of you remember the kinds of things your grandparents and parents went through in the 30’s and early 40’s? My God, have you read about the French Revolution? Did you read about the “let them eat cake” people? There has been enough of this stuff and brothers Larry and Ted need to move on down the road.
Here’s something that occurred to me last night. I was watching a documentary on netflix, a conversation with that guy who wrote Confessions of an Economic Hitman (John Perkins: Speaking Freely). And as the guy explained exactly HOW he went about destabilizing nations all over the world on behalf of the IMF, US, WB, whatever, and the processes they use to do that, it suddenly hit me that what he was describing was PRECISELY what is happening in the US today with Wall Street and the bailouts. Watch it if you get a chance. I mean, I knew these guys had managed a financial coup d’etat under Bush/Paulsen, but I figured (hoped) it wouldn’t continue now.
wrong.
lol
Obama’s hedge fund contributors didn’t throw all that money at him to bring about accountability.
The question is this: How do we raise a big howl about Geithner’s current bullshit program? This cannot be allowed. Maybe hammer away on the tax problems angle to discredit him? I don’t like it, but this is turning into a rough sport. If playing dirty is what’s required, then that’s just the way it has to be.
i go back and forth: sometimes i just think he’s getting really really bad economic advice and he just doesn’t know that there are a bunch of economists that think his plans suck and that it just so happens that includes just about everyone who saw some aspect of the train wreck coming, unlike his advisors.
and then sometimes i just think that no one can be that stupid or ideologically blind. but history and experience teach a different lesson, that intelligence and even brilliance are no guarantee against a lack of wisdom, judgment or character.
got a coin i can flip?
Please, I’v e heard that line before. I just need a change. Friends south of the border and Europe to visit that I love and miss. Who knows. I don’t really care, just need to experience something other than this for awhile. Nothin wrong with that.
you thinking it was the one cooked up with paulson?
LOL
I want candy!
You can’t be blaming some unknown force of immigrants who are making $8.00 an hour to do jobs the rest of us haven’t considered until now? Go somewhere else and be concerned!
Don’t know whether you saw this priceless cnbc interview with Roubini & Taleb that I linked earlier today. Besides all the surreal denial & triviality of the Qs, Taleb is the first person outside of FDL that I’ve ever heard insisting that recovery can only occur if you throw the bastards out. He specifies Bernanke, but his prinicple applies to the whole econ team.
To be a broken record:
A bad stimulus + no bank nationalization = depression in 18 months, latest
We now have both. I just put up another oxdown diary going more into the stimulus and what kinds of job numbers we need. It doesn’t look good. And this plan of Geithner’s is idiocy compounding disaster.
Everyone is so sure that we’re doomed? Did I miss something?
Ian icymi imvho Meredith Whitney appears to be going in the direction of your position that we need to nationalize at least some of the banks.
I hope I’m not mischaracterizing her position.
Room for everyone here, unless we are maligning each other.
Keep it about the issues.
Thanks.
It’s always darkest just before
the dawnit goes completely black !Thank you… I forgot how lovely shoes can be.
here’s a little bright spot for anyone who wants to hear it, only 5 min but interesting. so is the guy’s website
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..=100384670
watertiger is upstairs!
So Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and Michael Steele Walk Into a Bar…
oh i don’t think it would take even 18 months .. we’re in a real nosedive already ..
i’m talking about crashin’ so hard we actually leave a big crater .. coming at us faster than a politician can spin …
national trainwreck …
LOL ok. I was just wondering and stuff.
Good for Taleb. A lot of what we have been saying here, most of the liberal economists are now saying and even a few of the conservative ones, at least in part. So either we are just ahead of them or we are beginning to make a difference.
I think the most suspicious aspect of the Obama econ intentions is that there isn’t ONE single prog economist in the group. Not one. That really gives me pause. It’s like W and his bevy of sycophants.
That’s why I said depression in 18 months latest. When Obama began to talk about his stimulus, I thought we had at least 18 months before we ended up about where we are now but deeper in debt. But the lamebrained anticks of the Senate this last week plus Geithner’s idiot quackery are causing me to telescope my timelines.
Whether the country hits the deck now or in 18 months (or whenever), it would seem we’re going to have to deal with some serious social unrest. What do you suppose that might look like? Anyone?
Come on guys I’m just an old bass player but I can hear a bad tune every time these guys start singing. I just hope our new President doesn’t wind up leading the band because he’s got some real bad ”side men” right now.
Except W never could use words with more than two syllables or string together a cohesive sentence, thought, idea, policy. but besides that, they are just alike /snark
speaking of nosedives. take a look at these charts from CR: Job Losses During Recessions
If this is simply more corruption then, short of revolution, there’s nothing we can do. If we assume that somehow this is all on the level,and since no rational explanation is offered, I can only imagine that the truth must be something that would shatter what little confidence may be left in the US banking system and economy.
Excellent clip…well…except for the yammering idiots at CNBC, of course.
The plan is to keep the forklifts of cash moving until the sociopaths running the banks think it’s reached an unconscionable level. This type of plan might generate civil unrest among the newly homeless.
yep selise that exact chart is where i gathered the word “nosedive” from … it’s like the pilot just pushed all the way forward on the yoke .. no glide path at all … if we don’t start pulling out soon .. we’re eigher goingto make one big “splat” .. or the wings are gonna tear off from interia when we do finally get the idiots-in-the-senate to pull back on the stick ..
You know,I have been thinking about that, funny you should ask.
I see lots of comments on various blogs that say things will be like a “Mad Max” movie. Me, I think it will be worse than that. I don’t think the powers that be will let us run around “free” like that. I’m betting on complete martial law with prison camps to contain the masses. As far as I can tell, the military and police personnel don’t give a shit about the Constitution, and most will “follow orders” no questions asked as long as they get to keep their jobs. Our only hope is if the nuber of civilians rebelling greatly outnumber the cops and military. But I’m not counting on that since our civilian population has been cowed into fear and obediance to authority, especially since 9/11. I’m guessing most people will voluntarliy walk themselve right into the internment camps to “keep their families safe”.
Of course, I’m really, really hoping I’m wrong. In any event, I’m not going anywhere (even if I could afford to). I gonna stick around and fight.
OK, whose more bankrupt? The banks (financially) or Obama’s economics team (intellectually)?
I also see a police state playing out, one way or another. We’ve been living under a state of (more or less) friendly fascism for several years. I don’t see it remaining very friendly for too much longer, however. I also hope I’m wrong. In fact, I hope I’m as crazy as a March hare on this one…
Can I flip for it?
toss up?
social unrest ?? what might it look like ?? IMO . with just a few adjustments it ought to look a lot like the french revolution ..
the money changers have gotten completely out of hand ..as has the gap between the haves .. the have-much-mores ..and the got-nothing-lefts ..
what’s it going to take to get these obstructionist .. mendacious .. obscurantist ..republican conservatives off their fat asses and into the groove …
i think another complete defeat at the polls .. they actually think they are gaining political capital .. and other delusions as well ..
owe you a drink.
right wing populism (see nationalism, see anti-immigrant).
I got the first round.
a given. no need for snark. so i’m wondering now if i’m supposed to feel better that i’m getting hosed by a smooth talker instead of a moron.
so your thinking is that the hoary political right is going to rise up in arms ??
ohhhh my my .. imo .. open season on republicans would be too much fun …
The question is, do we continue to just question or are we at the point that intelligent criticism and lots of rhetorical questions are still valid? I think we are at that point where we no longer can wait. We’re getting our collective asses kicked by fools and we need to do something other than wring our hands. Where from here?
that’s the chart Pelosi held up the other day. made quite a splash.
Let’s be careful fantasizing about violence, folks.
Thanks.
I think it’s time to start mass-marches on Washington. There is precedent and it has proven to be effective.
nope. i think the virtually the entire country is moving right again. just look at the threads here on “buy american” – and even some comments about legal h1b visa holders. that’s right wing populist rhetoric from progressives.
I was thinking more in terms of 60’s-style demonstrations. Big Ones.
not true. have you seen video of him when he was running for gov of tx?
well….. aux armes, citoyens! formez les bataillions! marchons! marchons!
guess it’s that or nothing.
the banks can’t be bankrupt if they have all our money, can they?
Russians are reportedly already using the barter system. I don’t think there’s much cause to worry about violence in the U.S., as the populace has been conditioned over years that violence is only for export, which explains the absence of impromtu courts set up on Wall Street with free cart rides to the guillotine.
What is this fantasizing about violence stuff about? I am a very old Zen Buddhist who abhors violence….I believe we all here believe we can begin to steer our country to a better place without picking up pitchforks!
They spent all that money on bonuses, junkets, cases of Dom and Beluga caviar, so yes, they could probably be bankrupt.
funny thing — on a NYT blog yesterday a guy said he was starting a company in response to the econ crash he felt sure would be a smashing success : pitchforks.
To the barricades!
Right on! Who here is “fantasizing” about violence? Anyone ever heard of non-violent resistance? Hell, as far as I’m concerned, FDL is an example of fighting against tyranny.
Makes sense to me. No way is the public ready for more of this kind after the event portrayed here.
It’s not very nice that the banks gave inappropriate mortgages and then bundled those bad mortgages with rating agencies giving them AAA status and bringing the entire world economy crashing down. One would have anticipated that they would all go to jail, not that they’d all still be in their mansions with all of their ill-gotten gains, with many of them still being chauffered to their executive offices or consulting with the government because of their expertise in finance.
No can do…bus repossessed (by evil spirits). Heh.
Besides, there’s no chance the MSM would cover a million people protesting in Washington…oh wait, that was the Bush era. Never mind.
I kinda think maybe you are, I hope you’ll be happy to hear….I mean, Bush was kind of trending that way several years back, but if you really think we’re still trending toward facism, you’re not observing anything like the reality I am.
Disgusting as it is, I’m thinking that executive compensation at banks is probably small potatoes compared to the problem that seems to exist – no funds to back up all the money people believe they have in money market accounts, etc. (Allegedly, a huge electronic run on the banks prompted the initial panic leading to the bailout.)
A hammer used by Bush will be different in Obama’s hands.
Here’s a “Progressive” economist. Safety glasses recommended.
Krugman goes yard on Obama and the Republicans.
Hilarious! (Where do get them?)
Now you’ve really stirred up my paranoia about electronic medical records.
What exactly are you accusing them of, what crime(s) that is?
David Mizner has posted an excellent Dkos diary quoting Krugman, Stiglitz, Roubini, Taleb, and Baker, all of whom insist that insolvent banks MUST BE NATIONALIZED.
Nationalize the banks?
With the bailouts the banks have already nationalized us.
If the bundled mortgages sold to pension funds and other banks, etc., were truly AAA, then we must just be imagining that there is a financial crisis.
My god, what in the every loving hell is wrong with us? Here you have Roubini and Taleb saying to these people essentially, “Hey! I’m not here to give you investment advice, I’m telling you there’s not going to be anything to invest in unless you get your house in order!”
The talking heads just kept on chattering.
1. Terrible he takes after his mother but doesnt understand life
2. Probily needs a team of people looking after his best mental intrest.
3. They teach 1st graders numbers like 1,2 and 3 anyone can figure out if your paying 3 but intrest is 3.2 your falling behind.
4. This guy couldnt protect himself against a 10th grader.
Just go to the guys house above.
The Rs have every incentive in the world to go along with this. It’s going to fail — I bet all of them vote for it, using the exact words the democrats used when they signed off on TARP in the first place.
Axelrod should have won this argument — even Wall Street didn’t like it. They wanted more details. Everyone else wanted the bankers to have to pay for their crimes against humanity.