Can I haz pitchfork now?

I don’t understand how they can unilaterally change the terms of the agreements. I can’t tell them I’ve decided to alter our deal.

And they usu do it with an undated flyer -in fine print. There’s no requirement for the other party to acknowledge the terms have changed. Sux big time.

only if you have a torch to go with it.

I think citibank has been f*cking people over for a while by charging up the wall for late payments, changing dates of payments etc.

Well why not? Who’s stoppin’ ‘em? Geithner? Biden? Not so much.

Think I’ll get rid of my Chase card.

Oh they do give an out but it’s buried in the fine print as well. Canceling the card and paying off the bill is the option they provide.

Lack of action on the part of the card user or using the card is acquiescing to the terms as modified.

And I haz torch (or can find one real quick like)

Just like the airlines. The airline can cancel your flight, but you can’t stroll up to the ticket counter and say, I’m going to take this flight instead of the one I purchased. With corporate America, rules are for the little people.

Everything’s coming up hose-ed…

Capital One and HSBC have done the same thing (raise rates and/or annual fees) as well over the last couple of days. Don’t know if they are taking TARP money, however.

I’m speechless! These people have no conscience.

Has anyone checked out the leaked Congressional reports on Wikileaks?

February 8, 2009
EDITORIAL
Change you can download.
Wikileaks has released nearly a billion dollars worth of quasi-secret reports commissioned by the United States Congress.

Frontpage of sample CRS report, RL31555: China and Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Missiles: Policy Issues, dated January 7, 2009. A full listing of reports is available here.
The 6,780 reports, current as of this month, comprise over 127,000 pages of material on some of the most contentious issues in the nation, from the U.S. relationship with Israel to the financial collapse. Nearly 2,300 of the reports were updated in the last 12 months, while the oldest report goes back to 1990. The release represents the total output of the Congressional Research Service (CRS) electronically available to Congressional offices. The CRS is Congress’s analytical agency and has a budget in excess of $100M per year.

A lot of information!

Citibank is also doing a %increase along with new fees… See my post here for my reply to Citibank.

Thanks Jane.

Thanks to pup34 for opening the digg.

On a related note, GM and Chrysler are fucked, with a capital F.

A local Chrysler dealership also sells Hyundais. Thank GOD the Genesis Coupe comes out in a couple of months. I can live with the funky styling, as long as tuners are attracted to it like me to a NASCAR race.

I much prefer a thermal lance.

They can’t – you have the option of opting out of the agreement by a certain date, usually 60 days after the notice is sent out. You have to affirmatively call them to “opt out” and close your account.

If you call them to cancel, you magically don’t get someone from Bangladesh or Bangalore (BTW, open for warrantless wiretapping thanks to the Protect America Act….) and they “review” your account – I magically got my old rates back again, but I can imagine that people out of jobs or who have been late are not extended the same courtesy.

Being in the legal business, I can tell you that 99 % of people don’t bother to read what they have received and just get screwed with the higher interest rates.

Finally, what happened to those Fed rules that were supposed to stop usuary rates?

DIGG is open but link not working for me.

My Chase card is paid off; cancelling today. Thanx, Jane.

pup34

DIGG is open.

It’s time to nationalize the banks and rationalize their consumer credit practices. In most cases they are extremely predatory.

This behavior is no different that a drug pusher or pimp who does exactly the same thing to his customers.

Fick the ficking banks I despise them. What a bunch of creeps.

Thanx sir or (madam)….may I have another. No need to look to the government for help, hands off policy ya know.

This is shocking!!!! Who would have thought that banks are only in it for the money?

Why even bother with an agreement, they don’t seem to consider that it can’t be altered except by mutual consent. Seeing that they just change the conditions as will, these agreements are misleading and somewhat fraudulent.

just rec’d from CAP ONE:

“At Capital One, we are committed to providing valuable customers like you with honest and open communications. Today, we’re notifying you that terms of your Capital One account are changing.

You have the right to decline these changes – for information on how to do this, please see Page 4.”

(emphasis in original / bolded portion also underlined).

No information is provided to this “valuable customer” as to why my terms are changing.

My option for declining these changes – emphasized throughout the mailer – is to close my account.

One thing I heard awhile ago is that those of us who pay our cards off in full every month are considered “deadbeats” because we don’t pay any interest.

In the years I’ve had a Fleet/BofA card, I’ve never had a balance larger than $1500, customarily no more than a few hundred, and pay in full each month. However, they keep upping my credit limit — it’s now $20K!! I want to call and ask exactly why they think increasing my credit limit far beyond my charging history is a benefit to anyone.

See my comment – call them and cancel the account. If you are lucky, you will then magically be transferred back the good ol’ US of A.

BTW, given that all of these companies are doing it ALL AT THE SAME TIME, isn’t this subject to FTC, regulations? Just wondering cause this smells like collusion to me.

not too mention, if someone is late they jerk the interest rate to the highest possible…so what’s up with that. If you are already having trouble paying…instead of helping out they give the card holder another shove towards not being able to pay at all….nice work.

And CITI has upped it’s finance charges to 18.49% in some cases. Their terms are you either accept the higher finance charge or your account will be closed after your card expires. AND they too got TARP money.

I once read about a disabled woman on a fixed income who had a $500 credit card balance. A judge found she’d paid XXX times that amount on interest, penalties, etc. I think the woman was awarded that amount.
The problem is that credit card companies do that all the time. It seems like it’s getting worse though.

Available credit limit is large factor in your overall credit score. You apparently therefore have a very good score, as well. It’s a crazy system, but you don’t want that credit limit to go down in any way.

When all this TARP money came into the system, they used it to offer to those people who are a low risk with the intent that you don’t use it. That way they bump up their asset base.

It’s another reason why all of these credit card laws need to be reviewed, including the collusion mentioned in #25, above.

I think citibank is being particularly evil.

It’s past time for this BS to be regulated. They charge Usury rates and it is beyond unconscionable.

I had one CapOne card upped to over 20K credit limit and I asked for a lower rate, but they refused and so I canceled it. They have since sent me an offer for a new card.. $1,000 credit limit. hahhahhaa In the trash.

I have little use for a credit rating except if I need one for a landlord if I move. I can pretty well manage on a cash basis and use the CCards I have when the need arises. I use my debit card as CCard at times when a merchant doesn’t accept debt.

Credit scores are a scam that banks use. I say screw them and their credit scores. let’s not play

Yes, my credit score is excellent. But I thought the opportunity to increase my debt by a lot might be a negative. And is there a risk having a card with that large a limit if it is lost or stolen. I know if I report it promptly my liability is low, but it makes me nervous. And I can’t comprehend why they think I should have a $20K credit limit when I rarely charge more than a couple hundred in a month.

And with this news, upon recieving my tax return I will be closing my Chase card also. I will let them know why and will turn down any offer of a lower interest rate.

Somehow we have to let these bastards know that ultimately WE own them. If we decide to take our business elswhere or for that matter just decide we wont pay their bills they will go down. WE NEED TO REMEMBER THIS and we need make sure they get the message. I like the sound of a “we aint paying our credit card bill and wadaya gonna do about it” movement against these fucks. How long before they collapse if even 10% of their card holders stop paying?

We the people need to bring an end to this corporate rule. If it means torches and pitchforks so be it. The time has come to take our nation back from the robber barons who have hijacked this nation…most of ‘em republican slime. Lets take it back people…we gotta get it back for our childrens sake! The revolution should damn well be starting NOW!

Also, Chase et al. have closed dormant accounts. Chase closed two of my four accts with them (which they opened during their promiscuous heyday) b/c they were inactive “for more than two years”. RBS closed my acct b/c it was inactive “for several months”. I’m guessing they eliminate ‘debt’ so they’re ‘allowed’ to ‘lend’ under the fed regulations.

The rates are regulated. The present rates, hideous as they are, are much lower than they were before regulation.

Hi Pups,

I remember the bank slogan, “You have a friend at Chase Manhattan”.

Just had a nice chat with one of their associates. Mentioned their TARP
bailout and that their new terms may make me consider changing banks.
It does not affect me but he tried to sell me some protection for my
accounts anyway. Nagunna happen.

I was warned away from Chase many years ago. The word from graduate student friends of mine was that Chase really screwed students over.

The country has a liquidity crisis. A lot of problems could be solved by liquidating bank executives.

Or was that Capitol one? I think it was. At any rate, my wariness is always increasing.

Forgive me — I posted this on Ian Welsh’s thread, but I’m still dumbfounded by it, and it’s pertinent. It’s acecdotal evidence of how fucked the banks are.

About six months ago I did a balance transfer of about $2500, with a transaction fee of 3%, with Citibank with a 0% rate for twelve months. Last week they sent me a letter that they would pay me a credit of 10% on any amount above the minimum payment for the next few months, up to a limit of a $250 credit. I happened to have the money this year, so I paid the thing off. I will have netted about 3 or 4% from them over the twelve month period. They will have paid me to borrow their money because they are evidently so desperate for cash. I suppose they are trying to stave off being exposed as insolvent as long as they can, i.e., until we bail them out. Either that or their executives want to run off with as much loot as they can.

First National Posture Pedic Bank looking better by the day.

Banks are also in panic mode – who isn’t? They got lucky (?) when gasoline spiked in 05 and especially last year. Banks make 2%-4% on every transaction off the top, pure windfall on a spike (no additional cost), they took in billions during the spikes. The gasoline consumers are still carrying those spiked charges, and those charges are now being rolled into higher penalties.

Keith! Get this to Pelosi! Pelosi! Commence hearings!

Citibank flat out lied. They said
1. It applies to everyone and it doesn’t
2. They said they sent out notices in November and they didn’t (at least not to the person I know)

The new law passed late last year doesn’t take effect until 2010.
That was to give the banks “time” to prepare for the change.

I can tell you, as a former Chase employee, that when it’s a matter of profits being affected, policies can change nearly overnight.

I am sooooo glad I don’t work there anymore. With the sudden decline and failure of banks in the fall, the rules for reversing fees and lowering interest rate tightened up overnight, with new metrics for automatically recording and reporting how many reversals a customer service rep did. Too many, and they are in trouble.

Re: bluejeansntshirt being offered a credit protection ‘product”, I will only say, that employee is absolutely required to do so, whether s/he could accomodate your request or not.
NOT offering to sell too often can lead to being fired.
I was close to being fired last year because I just couldn’t do it, until finally it was recognized (after lots of people involuntarily [put into sales quit) that some of us just can’t sell. I was put into a section that didn’t have to sell. But by late fall, I couldn’t take the inability to solve problems and the consequent verbal abuse from customers anymore.

So, now I’m looking for work, too.

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention-while I worked there, I was forbidden to mention in any blog or other on-line posting, the name of the company I worked for, or even the general description of the industry.
Also a firing offense for violating.
I’m still a little nervous about “coming out.”

This is a video from PBS “NOW” show. Very informative on the topic of Wall Street, and if you scroll down on the left there are a couple of other short segments concerning the economy that also say a lot.

Food for thought

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/505/index.html

sorry, scroll down on the right, not left. Monday morning and all.

Angry B

Rape and pillage. Yet credit cards are vulnerable to uniform federal rules, even though they are subject to state laws. To be sure, credit companies congregate in extraordinarily CC friendly states, where rules permit interest rates that would make a mobster cringe and the changing of credit terms at will.

As for the ten dollar a month charge, it doesn’t matter whether it comes off the first ten dollars of every monthly bill paid or not. Unless you’re able to pay off your balance every month, that’s ten dollars added to the total on which interest is charged. I haven’t seen the rules, but I imagine they charge ten bucks even if you have no balance or pay it off monthly.

CC companies operate nationally and should be subject to national rules (a few apply now). Interest rate caps, limits on fees and penalties, prohibition of certain practices, such as onerous ways in which interest is applied to the outstanding balance, should be among the first things regulated.

This would be another knock-down fight. CC are a major source of profits, more now than ever, since the business model used relies on bait and switch tactics, exorbitant fees and penalties, cross default terms and high interest rates.

CC companies also contribute mightily to Democrats as well as Republicans, especially in New York, Ohio, the Dakotas and other states in which CC companies congregate. Regulating CC company abuses would be attacked as another “socialist” measure by our uppity Prez. (A description the Right uses for any measure that benefits someone not living in one of their gated communities.)

As part of an economic recovery measure, along with amending the bankruptcy rules, it would be especially productive. Virtually every dollar saved from going to a creditor would be respent immediately elsewhere in the economy.

The banks are bankrupt, insolvent, underwater, sucking fumes. They didn’t get this way by acting responsibly. Now they are pure panic mode and acting even more irresponsibly to cover it up.

This is the reality that Paulson, Bernanked, Summers, and Giethner simply refuse to accept. There are no responsible partners to be found in the banking industry, not one. The housing bubble and financial meltdown are not things that happened to them. They are things the banks created. The government is dealing with a bunch of what are essentially hucksters and asking them to “Please, take this money and behave.” The results are exactly what we would expect them to be.

Good for you tejanarusa!! Thanks for the inside scoop and not to worry,

I’m sure you have the back-up of many puppies here. *g*

Interest rate caps, limits on fees and penalties, prohibition of certain practices, such as onerous ways in which interest is applied to the outstanding balance, should be among the first things regulated.

I believe all, or most, of those things are in the bill that won’t take effect until 2010.

Seems to me there was discussion here at FDL at the time, or maybe Atrios.
If I get a chance I’ll look for a link for ya.

During the economy growth after WWII to present, Corporations have targeted small businesses for takeover, Wall Mart goes in opens and lowers the prices on small competitors untill they give up. Then those same products get priced higher again.
The lobbyist have made small business an unattractive enveavor. Banks, retail and services have been consolidated in too big to fail conglomerates.
It is time to control the oligarchy with oversight and transparency. We need legislative analyst like ACLU has to propose these laws.

I had a “guaranteed” rate on a WaMu card. That was “guarnateed” until Chase took over WaMu. Immediately thereafter Chase sends out their “change” in account terms but no mention of higher rate in five or six pages of very fine print. The next action was to lower the credit line without notice to $100 above the balance, i.e. destruction of the all important credit score. Next was, without any notice, an increase on the interest rate on the existing balance by 20%, on an account that had never seen even a late payment. A letter received today was a form letter saying nothing. That being in response to my letter telling them to conform to the previous agreement or eat the balance. They would rather eat the balance. Fuck em’.

Hah. Listening to NPR’s Talk of the Nation – hadn’t paid attention until I heard a woman spouting the banks’ party line about why they have to reprice or cut credit lines on customers who are paying their bills just fine.
Checked out her name:
Diane Casey-Landry, chief operating officer of the American Bankers Association

Sigh.

Now you understand./s

I’m afraid customers often think that threatening to close their accounts or not pay the balance will alarm the bank into giving in.

Nope. Unless the customer is one of a very few, banks have long since made the calculation that it is cost effective to allow most customers to leave.
And as far as eating the balance is concerned, don’t forget — IF you care about your credit rating– they will report it as unpaid and you will take a hit to your rating.

If you don’t use credit much and don’t care, then you’re fine. But if you do care, don’t think it won’t happen. It will, and quickly.

Bush had an advance group who hand selected the audience- forcing out any opposition

Yeah, that was kinda my point.

I think Obama doesn’t do that, not that his advance team isn’t good. I really think he believes in free speech, listening to all sides.

OOps. , mine at 57 – wrong thread.

Chase’s employees call you from India with their great new package in trade of your last one.
How much money did you suck up for your failed business? 25 Billion at last count? Sorry, forgot the other 15 billion you sucked from the failed companies you euthanized after purchasing them with the bailout money.

It would be smart not to pay any of these people for a couple of months and see if we, the people, can force nationalization and a return to sanity. If we don’t nationalize banks, there will be no one to loan money to rebuild this country. it is that simple. The banks are using all the money for their own self interest and NONE is loaning money, except to each other for pretense. They buy failed banks to gain more bail out money. Why would any of us give a criminal operation a cent after what they have done? Do you think it will harm your credit report? There is no more credit report folks, I trust you realize it? We have to at least double our existing value in newly printed money to create a future. 10 trillion. That means printing worthless paper and claiming it is gold. As much money as now exists, we have to duplicate to pull out of the crisis.
Don’t ignore it any longer or you will be the victim like 20% of this country is now. Unemployment or under employment, it is 20% and don’t let anyone kid you it is a smaller number. LA is reporting 14 or more in just unemployment alone? That is a realistic glimpse of those actively seeking work to replace loss, not the underemployed trying to get enough work with 2 jobs. Or 3.
Stop believing what the rich people that own banks or bank stock tell you. Ignorance is not bliss.
We, the people can stop this nonsense by not paying them another cent. Since they will only whine about that, they will cry to our government for more bailouts. Our government will then have no choice but to euthanize the banks and fix the mess they allowed and facilitated.

it’s Common Sense. it’s in “the course of human events”

Sadly it is untrue that there is no more credit report.

Perhaps it will come to that, but the reporting agencies are definitely still with us.

I don’t even pay for anything anymore. I just shoplift now.

Bank of America raised my checking account fee from $0 to $20 per month. They said my “promotional rate” which I have had for several years has expired.

Go credit union or small bank. Many of them have network privilges.

You might want to work on the wording of your letter; it sounds like YOU got billions in bailout money.

After recently receiving Billions of dollars from the US taxpayers I get a notice in my bill . . .

the banks’ party line about why they have to reprice or cut credit lines on customers who are paying their bills just fine.

This recently happened to me. I pay off all credit card bills in full each month. Even so, Barclays drastically reduced the limit on one of my cards. When I called . . . oh, hell, you know what crap they spouted.

I canceled the card.