So am I. *g*

these people are either morons or putting their personal political preferences ahead of the country’s good.

The pukes don’t give a rats ass about the United States, or any of her citizens. The f’ing dems are no better. This whole thing makes me ill. I was stupid enough to think this time around things would be different.
(spit)

I hope the bill does not include funds for Banff! It is lovely, but not a place the US government should be supporting.

People like Coburn don’t believe in “The Arts” or museums (but I bet that Coburn would earmark funds to the Creation Museum if he thought he could get away with it).

The malicious insanity of the Coburn amendment is illustrated by this story.

The budget cuts in California will curtail California’s equivalent of the New Deal’s Civilian Conservation Corp.

California’s program is modeled on the Civilian Conservation Corps, which put three million young, unemployed men to work from 1933 to 1942. President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s “tree army” or “soil soldiers” planted more than two billion trees, restored eroding soil in the Dust Bowl states, developed 800 new state parks, erected one million miles of fences, and built bridges, roads and 13,000 miles of hiking trails in places like Yosemite and Grand Canyon National Parks.

“This was without a doubt the most popular New Deal program; it radically transformed the landscape of this country,” said Neil Maher, an associate professor of history at the New Jersey Institute of Technology and Rutgers University and author of “Nature’s New Deal: The Civilian Conservation Corps and the Roots of the American Environmental Movement.”

Each year the California corps — whose motto is “Hard work, low pay, miserable conditions … and more!” — employs more than 1,300 young people between the ages of 18 and 25 for a year of hard labor in far-flung corners of the state. They restore salmon habitat in the redwoods, clear brush from highways and build trails in state parks. Most are unemployed young men hailing from poor urban neighborhoods, and nearly half have not graduated from high school.

these people are either morons or putting their personal political preferences ahead of the country’s good.

Sorry, Ian, but I’ve got to disagree.

This is a both/and proposition, not an either/or. Some would say that the latter is proof of the former.

They are positive externalities.

Yes. And living reminders of the successful policies of the political party who built them.

He doesn’t believe in children neither, especially middle class and poor ones.

You are absolutely correct. But it is probably a place that the Canadian government should support instead.

None of the amounts appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any casino or other gambling establishment, aquarium, zoo, golf course, swimming pool, stadium, community park, museum, theater, art center, and highway beautification project.

That has to be one of the stupidest, most counterproductive amendments I’ve ever read.

I figure all 41 Republicans voted for it, who were the Dems that voted for it?

these people are aristocrats

it explains everything

On the other hand, Military spending has been demonstrated to be very efficient at reducing the size of the workforce.

In the Twin Cities, we have yin and yang. For example, the Tyrone Guthrie Theater and Mall of America. Guess which one attracts upwards of 100,000 people a day (yes, a day!) to spend boatloads of money, even now. If those folks had to choose between funding the arts vs. funding the mall…oh, you know. Thus it is that the Norm Coleman’s of the world more or less believe they’re representing the will of the people.

Republicans despise the arts because most artists convey a point of view that does not agree with them. Plain and simple.

Most people are morons, economically and otherwise. If it was just politicians generally or senators in particular it’d be a much better world.

Suggested editorial changes to your title, Ian.

Most All Senators Are Economic Morons

Truer words…they are determined to create Potterville, USA.

What are the chances for getting the 40 billion restored during conference? What can we do about it?

Help us, Obiwan Pelosi; you’re our only hope!

Self-important morons. There are notable exceptions though, i.e., Sanders, Whitehouse, Feingold, Wyden.

In this morning’s LA Times, Professor Niall Ferguson, whose credentials read as follows:

Niall Ferguson is a professor at Harvard University and Harvard Business School, a Fellow of Jesus College, Oxford, and a senior fellow of the Hoover Institution. His latest book is “The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World.”

assures us that “Keynes can’t help us now.” ;-)

In spite of that title, his op-ed is worth a read, e.g., he insists that insolvent banks have to be restructured, and “Bank stockholders will have to face that they have lost their money.”

This isn’t the only Bill they can do to stimulate the economy is it? Even if stuff can’t be restored during conference committee it can be restored via appropriations or other means,can’t it?

It’s been a long time since I’ve said this about my congresswoman, but it’s true today:

The Speaker speaks for me.

I can think of no spending program that was more wasteful that WW-II, but it got us out of the Great Depression.

Most Senators Are Economic Morons.

Couldn’t help myself, sorry.

I keep saying it till I’m blue or the blue politicians begin to say it themselves;

For the purpose of a Keynesian stimulus it doesn’t matter if it’s spent on a park or a highway beautification project. Any spending is better than tax cuts

this is simply because just about every tax goes somewhere, when you reduce a tax you MUST reduce a service, this means few jobs

the only times you can lower tax is when you have surplus or when there is a market you want to target for specific investment and growth, however that tax reduction is payed by other sectors to make up the deficit you created

simple stuff here, tax reductions lose jobs and wind up costing us more money not less

simply becaues in almost every case that tax is performing a service that will be much more expensive if provided in the private sector

Pelosi will fail us yet again. She never fails to fail! A miserable failure. That nutless wonder Reid as well. Contemptible little worm.

Why can’t we get just one Democrat to go on TV and say “You could pay people to dig holes and fill them up again and that would be superior to tax cuts”? Do we actually have “representation”?

I stronly recommend this 2002 article (speech) by Ben Bernanke: http://www.federalreserve.gov/…..efault.htm

It forshadows the $1.1 trillion that he ran off his “printing press” and helicopter-dropped onto Wall Street. Okay, he really has no printing press and doesn’t drop stuff from his helicopter, but the article explains what he does instead. And his Wikipedia entry explains that he got this idea from Milton Friedman:

On Milton Friedman’s ninetieth birthday, November 8, 2002, he stated: “Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve System. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. But thanks to you, we won’t do it again.”

[…]

In 2002, when the word “deflation” began appearing in the business news, Bernanke gave a speech about deflation.[19] In that speech, he mentioned that the government in a fiat money system owns the physical means of creating money. Control of the means of production for money implies that the government can always avoid deflation by simply issuing more money. (He referred to a statement made by Milton Friedman about using a “helicopter drop” of money into the economy to fight deflation.) Bernanke’s critics have since referred to him as “Helicopter Ben” or to his “helicopter printing press.” In a footnote to his speech, Bernanke noted that “people know that inflation erodes the real value of the government’s debt and, therefore, that it is in the interest of the government to create some inflation.”[19]

and why can’t we get ONE democrat to say;

bush’s “stimulous was OVER ONE TRILLION DOLLARS of tax cuts and THAT’S what got us here!

Because IMHO they don’t really believe that.

Thom Hartman makes a good case that WW II slowed down the exit from the great depression. What did WW II leave us as a legacy, except the Pentagon?

as ian says, they are economic morons

Your supposed to expand the economy by lending deposits not printing money!
What utter stupidity. When people invest in T-Bills that can be leny to expand the economy…unless of course your rates are so low investors are not attracted.

why not have museums and theaters supported? Actors eat, too.
And theaters support printers, and costumers, and the patrons go out to dinner.
As my wife, the theater artist says, if you build hiways, you have to have somewhere to go.

Ian – or anyone – did you have thoughts on the Activist angle on fighting for a good Stimulus package as Bowers at OpenLeft lays it out? http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=11444

Most Senators Are Economic Morons

Truer words were never spoke. It is painful to hear some Senator brag about how he or she cut such and such from the stimulus completing missing the point of what the stimulus is and what dire economic straits the nation’s economy is in.

individual investing in monetary instruments doesn’t expand the economy, individual investing in business expands the economy

investing in monetary instruments epands the precieved value of said insturment and collapses, as we see today

And his Wikipedia entry explains that he got this idea from Milton Friedman:

milton friedman was a moron who actual told people “the market regulates itself”

the real morons were those people who beleived a market would regulate anything

Highway and Railroad improvements
Aerospace engineering

How many U of C economists does it take to change a light bulb?
None – Market forces can do it better.

Small wonder the lights are going out.

what about tax cuts dont the goopers get? some spend it, but alot of it gets banked and that aint spending.

Ian Welsh is so right, it brings tears to my eyes that people (senators) are so blind when the country is in such pain.

A local radio show Media Matters with Bob McChesneyhd on Dean Baker today. The audio isn’t up yet but can be found here when it is:

http://will.illinois.edu/mediamatters/

It was just very relaxing to listen to someone who is actually informed on economic issues instead of the usual blatherers. I see Galbraith was on recently too.

selise also sent me a good interview with Galbraith that can be heard here:

http://www.electricpolitics.co…..ew_no.html

These Republican Senators voted, with no reservations, for HUNDREDS of BILLIONS to repair Iraq after we blew it up,

but the Republican Traitor Senators won’t vote for less than half of 100 Billion to bail out 50 American states.

Republicans in Congress are un-American Scum and Traitors. If they had any moral oppostion party to worry about, even the Johnny Reb yahoos in the south would vote them out of office.

Yes, they are economic morons, but they are also just regular morons. So in other words, they’re actually quite versatile in their moron-ness…

Book Salon upstairs with Adam Cohen’s Nothing to Fear: A Vivid Story of the 100 Days that Remade America hosted by Stirling Newberry

Treasury takes retired folks money and gives them a little interest for a safe investment. treasury lends it to banks who in turn lend it to business stimulating growth.
!.What part of that do you question?
2. The easy money (low interest rates) drove the housing bubble. Now millions are losing the invesment made into those homes, thir homes amd their credit.
3. Market controls should be on leveraged risks like the the CDOs and Credir default swaps and other paper not backed by real equity. The whole crap pile of near worthless paper taxpayers are being told they have to pay. Not asked.

ditto! my disgust has returned . yuk.

Moron returns, with apologies if this is redundant. Huffpost posts 14-page summary of The Bill. And also mentions that Ann Coulter is being investigated for voter fraud. The pain, the pain!

Neocons want us back where we were in the Dark Ages, torture, non science, poverty,slavery and witch burning. The Dark Ages…burn the books only religious education charter schools get funded…but but but wait isn’t that the Taliban agenda?

btw, as sister and guardian of a man who has mental retardation, I now know why this post got under my skin, big time, to wit:

Moron: A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

Hackles up. Self-moderating now. (TX, Demi!)

I guess you can say I don’t buy the Barack Bromide that the Republicans have some good ideas … for two reasons:

1 – If they had any good ideas since 1980, one or more of those ideas would have been put into practice, and,

2 – If they DID have some good ideas, they sure as hell wouldn’t give them to a Democratic president, now would they?

Under $300 Billion!!!!

Congress. Proof education in America is broken.

The Republicans are the Keep America Barefoot and Pregnant Party ( Rapists are encouraged to select the mother of their rape-child. If Jesus didn’t want that rapist baby to be born, Jesus would have “limped” the rapist, even while Jesus was memorizing 100 million passwords and ATM codes a day. Jesus also knows mis-typed passwords, you don’t know.

With everyone hurting, layoffs, foreclosures….. Maricopa County (AZ) is closing 163 parks including ALL their bark parks. Libraries are closing earlier and closed Sundays. Where can citizens get “free” recreation, a place to take their kids and/or dogs…… They just shut them down without trying something like user fees to cover the shortfall. The biggest growing process here is movie rentals from libraries….

Just saw the city put heavy grates on all our water drainage tunnels into the catchment areas (downpour water management)….. because the homeless were living in these culverts……

Any amendment that forbids the use of funds to build prisons?

I would like to make a separate point here that is getting lost – a lot of the Senator’s constituents are misinformed as well. Check out the comment section linked to the article. The stupid burns real hard there.

Now perhaps these Senators should know better and should receive good advice, but I think that between our education system and the media, so many people do not understand basic economic concepts that it becomes difficult from a political standpoint to do the proper and right thing.

In a country where the majority of the population doesn’t “believe” in evolution, for example, it’s not a coincidence. Where the Democrats have fundamentally failed is to educate enough people in a simple fashion how stimulus actually works. If I am not mistaken, Friedman had a television series back in the 80s which touted his personal economic views – it is too bad that we don’t have something like that in this day and age, but this time based on fact and not Friedman’s fiction.

It’s getting to the point that soon it will be every man, woman and child for themselves. Just the way the Republicans want it. The U.S. can expect millions more to lose their jobs, increasing suicide rates, more people living in their cars or under bridges but don’t despair. To show their concern for the working and middle classes the corporate media bobbleheads are collaborating with the Republicans to put out a new cookbook with varied recipes for grass soup.

“For the purpose of a Keynesian stimulus it doesn’t matter if it’s spent on a park or a highway beautification project.”

This is the key to the whole thing. Democrats, by and large, accept Keynesian economic theory, and Republicans don’t. Republican economic theory, to the extent that there is any, is based on Adam Smith, updated by Milton Friedman’s laissez-faire Monetarism. In order to take down the Republican’s talking points, one must attack and discredit Friedmanism itself. The Reagan-Bush II version of Friedmanism collapsed in failure at the end of Bush II, but they’re just not willing to accept that yet, and they’re still using their old talking points. Of course, the press by and large is still bamboozled into accepting Friedman’s spin on this.

So it is that Republicans vilify the “stimulus” plan as “wasteful spending,” pointing a Friedmanian spear thrust directly at the heart of Keynesianism.

Bob in HI

They’re not demographic, or psephological, morons. They know a killer 30-second attack ad lies behind each “aquarium, zoo, golf course, swimming pool, stadium, community park, museum, theater, art center, and highway beautification project” that would be funded.

I have a simpler view. They want to sabotage the results even if the bill passes over their objection. They have two things to prove: government spending did not end the Great Depression; conservative Republicans have the one sure cure to the economy — more and deeper tax cuts. Sabotaging the response of the Obama administration is for them a two-fer.

Why do you need any economics expertise in the Senate?

ABC national news just put George Will up opposite Paul Krugman, after all. So basically, they’re saying that a columnist whose only real expertise appears to be in the history and traditions of baseball is the equal of a Nobel prize-winning economist with a history of publications in the field of economics.

And of course Will trotted out the old “the New Deal failed to bring about the end of the Great Depression” BS. Krugman handed him his ass, but I doubt Will even knows it happened, nor did much of the audience.

If Republicans were advising the captain of the Titanic after colliding with the iceberg they would encourage him to put the ship in reverse and smash into the berg again since it was still in their way.

“None of the amounts appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any casino or other gambling establishment, aquarium, zoo, golf course, swimming pool, stadium, community park, museum, theater, art center, and highway beautification project.”

I’m. Just. Speechless. If I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes I wouldn’t have believed it. It’s not like we want our tax dollars to go toward anything that might make our communities more liveable or anything.

All we need is for more R’s to get around to saying in public that it really is all about a battle of the underlying ideas. because then PBO can take them apart both with rationality and with the public’s rejection of that thinking in the last election. And then the R’s will lose. Boehner opened the door to this yesterday with his “90% of a bad idea is still a bad idea” line, and all the D’s should jump on this ASAP.

It seems to me that the stimulus bill isn’t as forward looking as it could be and doesn’t maximize what could be done in terms of job creation incentives for engaging in productive activity, including creative and cultural activities. But I do agree they’re idiots – and what’s even worse – willful idiots. They fiddle while Rome burns.

Our country is immeasurably enriched by the schools, post offices, train stations, park amenities,communication grids, public art, oral histories and historic building and engineering recording projects, all sponsored by the federal government to provide employment during the Great Depression. What will be the legacy of our era? Commemorative tax breaks?

I don’t think so. These folks are all millionaires and can earn lots more when they leave office. They have excellent healthcare. Were the laws against teaching slaves to read stupid?

They work for the corporations and the status quo. It’s logical for them to oppose museums, expanded education, freethinking of any kind. They don’t want money for birth control or even to fund plans for flu pandemics (that means big epidemics). When and if a flu pandemic comes, they will say, just as they say of our current economic crisis, “nobody could have known”. They will have to be forced to approve meaningful healthcare reform and reduce military spending. If our insane military spending isn’t reduced, a big economic stimulus will have harmful financial effects- that’s true. Signing a petition or sending an email to these aristocrats won’t get us anywhere.

Think about this song by Ry Cooder,
Now the workingman must be well warned whenever headlines scream, “Your rights must yield, the bombs must fall to save democracy”. The flag they fly, their stew of lies served up at voting time like poison under the gravy on Highway 99.

They often contradict themselves, our lords, but they are not stupid. They have fooled the voters many times before, they expect to continue with their winning hand.

these people are either morons or putting their personal political preferences ahead of the country’s good.

Echoing Peterr@6, how about c) Both?

I know the thread has moved on, but this just breaks my heart. So many things at my University were built by the WPA, most impressed on me is the wonderful Auditorium, built of our own Indiana limestone (I’m talking about Indiana U Bloomington) in the mid to late ’30’s, and in use, constantly, year-round, ever since.
Permanent benefit, still going strong +/- 70 years later.

That amendment, and the ocnstant refrain of “wasteful spending” just makes me want to tear my hair out.
There, I feel better, even tho’ no one was here to hear me.