Fitz!

And to think I was worried about a comedy deficit if McCain lost.

“Mr. President, the American people have discovered that this isn’t a macaroni bill, it’s a pasta and cheese bill and therefore will not feed the hungry.”

Let’s not forget how effective McCain was during the TARP discussion. Just brimming over with ideas.

What is the formula? Spending => Jobs => Stimulus? Or in other words, spending is stimulus.

Willful obtuseness rules the Congress. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

And all the other pertinent cliches.

I’m so sick of McKrusty, Miss McConnell, Boner, and the other GOP obstructionists fucking around with the stimulus. To them, politics is a blood sport…other people’s blood.

I was listening to Neil Young’s feed-backed drenched performance of “Blowin’ in the Wind” this morning:

“Yes, and how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?”

Indeed.

MCCAIN: Mr. President, the American people are figuring it out that this is not a stimulus bill it’s a spending bill full of unnecessary spending, unexamined policy changes or policy changes that have been examined and rejected in the past and of course tax cuts, which really do not stimulate the economy.

Relief measures included the continuation of Hoover’s major relief program for the unemployed under the new name, Federal Emergency Relief Administration. The most popular of all New Deal agencies, and Roosevelt’s favorite, was the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), which hired 250,000 unemployed young men to work on rural local projects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

This translates to how many people given the growth in population that we now have today?

Paul Krugman in Feb 5 NY Times editorial:

So what should Mr. Obama do? Count me among those who think that the president made a big mistake in his initial approach, that his attempts to transcend partisanship ended up empowering politicians who take their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh. What matters now, however, is what he does next.

It’s time for Mr. Obama to go on the offensive. Above all, he must not shy away from pointing out that those who stand in the way of his plan, in the name of a discredited economic philosophy, are putting the nation’s future at risk. The American economy is on the edge of catastrophe, and much of the Republican Party is trying to push it over that edge.

Yep.

DiFi speaking against tax cuts, which are 40% of the package, and are not stimulative.

Assbite! Remember the debate when McCain tried to tutor Obama and the rest of us about knowing the difference between ’strategy’ and ‘tactics’?

I think McCain’s steel-trap mind went haywire and crossed the neurons for ‘revising and extending’ his remarks with revising and extending the Bush tax cuts.

Thank You. Just the chart we need! The Europeans are puzzled by our lack of spending on social programs such as unemployment benefits, health care, child care, education….which they rely on to cushion the negative impact of this depression. Your chart shows that they are smart to spend as much as they can to help their citizens.

Recovery was pursued through “pump-priming” (that is, federal spending). The NIRA included $3.3 billion of spending through the Public Works Administration to stimulate the economy, which was to be handled by Interior Secretary Harold Ickes. Roosevelt worked with Republican Senator George Norris to create the largest government-owned industrial enterprise in American history, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which built dams and power stations, controlled floods, and modernized agriculture and home conditions in the poverty-stricken Tennessee Valley. The repeal of prohibition also brought in new tax revenues and helped him keep a major campaign promise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

3.3 billion what is that in today’s dollars?

Looks like a stupid syntax thing. He meant to say “doesn’t really stimulate the economy” before the tax cuts part.

In the 30 seconds I listened to Stephanie Miller this AM, someone called in and said Pres Obama was sounding “almost petulant”. Yeah, right, there’s a difference between telling the truth and sounding, rightly, exasperated and whining that you didn’t get everything you wanted.

FunnyDiva

PS, “Bank for the Buck”: typo or pun? I report, you decide…
FunnyD

news flash – hell is freezing over. difi is doing a great job challenging the tax cuts and pushing for the other elements (infrastructure spending, safety net and natch aid to states).

go difi!!!!

That’s what it reminds me of too although I really like this version:

Yakko: So what’ll it be Dad Doo? The pasta, or the noodles?
The Godfather: The pasta *is* noodles.
Yakko: Would you like marinara, or red sauce?
The Godfather: Marinara *is* red sauce.
Yakko: Well, would you like calamari or the squid?
The Godfather: Calamari *is* squid.
Yakko: Zucchini or squash? Ham or prosciutto? Drink or beverage?
The Godfather: THEY’RE ALL THE SAME!
Yakko: [to Dot] Do you realize this eliminates more than half of our menu?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105941/quotes

This morning Obama finally began to speak forcefully from the “Bully Pulpit” to defend the necessary spending for the job creation bill now in the Senate. He did not name the repugs, but he said we need to get this bill passed whether perfect or not. It can be fixed later, but it is necessary now to get jobs created.

oh well. i owe jane another drink. hope she’s not keeping track. *g*

That CAN’T be right, TCU! The Gummint NEVER created a single job! And FDR just made the depression WORSE! It was TEH WAR that got the economy going again!
Don’t you be muddying the waters with actual facts, you DFH! And get offa my lawn!

FunnyD

Yeah drop the tax cuts!

Roosevelt did not raise income taxes before World War II began; however payroll taxes were also introduced to fund the new Social Security program in 1937. He also got Congress to spend more on many various programs and projects never before seen in American history. However, under the revenue pressures brought on by the depression, most states added or increased taxes, including sales as well as income taxes. Roosevelt’s proposal for new taxes on corporate savings were highly controversial in 1936–37, and were rejected by Congress. During the war he pushed for even higher income tax rates for individuals (reaching a marginal tax rate of 91%) and corporations and a cap on high salaries for executives. In order to fund the war, Congress broadened the base so that almost every employee paid federal income taxes, and introduced withholding taxes in 1943.

Roosevelt also kept his promise to push for repeal of Prohibition. In April 1933, he issued an Executive Order redefining 3.2% alcohol as the maximum allowed. That order was preceded by Congressional action in the drafting and passage of the 21st Amendment, which was ratified later that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

Raise taxes like FDR did that worked! We tried things Bush, the GOP, the Hoover way for 8 years.
John McCain when have your ideas ever worked? Reagan do we want lower living standards for workers?

OK, CA progressives, sounds like time to call her office with thanks and kudos for her support.
FunnyD
Reward good behavior, right?

Excellent ! The Dems have to push back against Repug talking points with this very point, which has been mentioned here over and over again.

Tax cuts have to go before any other cuts to the Stimulus package.

Thanks Jane.

digg

I hope BO’s outreaches to McCain were part of some larger strategy because they certainly didn’t raise the level of bipartisanship.

I made the observation earlier this morning about the complete lack of stimulative effect from tax cuts, particularly in this economy.

the Works Progress Administration (WPA) which set up a national relief agency that employed two million family heads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

What is 2 million jobs when the growth in population is taken into account?

Reality does have a Liberal Bias Funnydiva2002 which explains the GOP’s faith based economic policy Don’t bother with facts if we all just believe the Depression will go away!
When do we get to call the Bush Caused Recession a Depression?

707! thanks!

A 1932 dollar would be worth between $44-$52 2008 dollars. So $145.2- 171.6 billion. In terms of its fraction of GDP, it would be much higher: $2.65 trillion.

http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

Where would McCain get the idea that tax cuts are not good stimulus? Possibly from his economic advisor Mark Zandi of Moody’s, who put together this chart that you have no doubt by this point seen:

moody doesn’t get it either, and obama isn’t all the way there either;

tax cuts are NOT “stimulous” unless that tax was serving no purpose

taxes almost always SAVE money, saving consumers money is stimulous, when you stop saving them money that’s counter productive

when you “cut a tax” you are in just about every case costing individuals more…of course there are exceptions but there it is

tax reform is ONLY stimulous when it’s targeted at a specific industry that is struggling or needs to grwo

now there can be efficiency returns, when we learn to provide a service more efficiently THEN the tax that funded that service can be reduced, otherwise you are going to SLOW the economy by cutting the fees that fund services

As Dorothy Parker said:

You can lead a wh*re to culture, but you can’t make him think.

I also like the take I read over at C&L about trying to achieve bipartisanship is impossible when the other party is insane. Like asking your date where to do for dinner. You suggest Italian and they suggest tire rims and anthrax. JEEZ!

where to do = where to go. oy.

Whoo Hoo!

Even the massaged numbers put out by the government are ugly. Just imagine what charts of the Real Numbers would look like.

I really like that little chart. It’s something even the mouth-breathers would have a difficult time disputing. One thing: Did they mean to say “Bang” for the buck, or am I missing a clever little wordplay? It wouldn’t be the first time.

back on topic ….

mccain is now bloviating against funding for domestic violence services since it won’t create jobs and so it should not be included in the stimulus bill. pork barrel. blah blah.

Thanks:)

McSame complaining about money in this Bill for Domestic Violence does not create jobs…. well he does not address the issue that there is more domestic violence as the job market dries up. People get bloody angry and domestic violence becomes rampant and where are the Dems to refute his crap? And, as my spouse points out, NH and other states are losing a great deal of their funding because the states and municipalities do not have any money for domestic violence programs so people are being laid off in those vital social services. Grrrrrrrrr.

Yeah, see me at #13!

FunnyD

The strategy is to point out once and for all, with no doubt left in anyone’s mind, that McCain is…always was…and always will be an asshole.

Sorry Thanks Hugh:)

Hey congress! Stop listening to the lying lemmings of Limbaugh!

There, that was my Spiro Agnew inspired rant.

Fuggetaboutit…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf0ZyoUn7Vk

If we don’t get a decent stimulus package…Fuggetaboutit…

Don’t forget: his VP choice would charge victims to gather their own evidence.

Once again you and I are on the same wavelength this time on a subject very close to my heart. My wonderful spouse has been working in DV for years.

Yeah, the lack of direct, reasoned refutation by the Dems is damn near as infuriating as hearing the same old BS from the R’s. It’s past time to stop making nice!

What Dosido and friends said at #30…

FunnyDiva

WALLACE: As that package now stands, can John McCain vote for it?

MCCAIN: No. We need to make a commitment that there will be no new taxes. We need to cut payroll taxes, we need to cut business taxes, we need to have a commitment that after a couple quarters of GDP growth that we will embark on a path of say called graham-rudman to reduce spending to get our budget in balance. We’re going to lay an additional two trillion basically dollars of debt on future generations of Americans. Is there going to be a point at which foriegn countries such as the Chinese stop buying our debt? Look, we’ve got to eliminate the unneccessary spending. There has got to be some kind of litmus as to whether it will really stimulate the economy and whether it will in the short term.

He also told Wallace that the Bush tax cuts need to be made permanent.

It would be nice if Chris would actually do research on a story so he could contradict Very Important People when they are wrong.
That is the difference between a Real Journalist and a hack Propagandist.

Fuck ‘em all. Declare a national emergency and initiate the change via fiat. Go ahead, you know you can! Make our past Dear Leader look like a piker.

Recovery was pursued through “pump-priming” (that is, federal spending). The NIRA included $3.3 billion of spending through the Public Works Administration to stimulate the economy, which was to be handled by Interior Secretary Harold Ickes. Roosevelt worked with Republican Senator George Norris to create the largest government-owned industrial enterprise in American history, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which built dams and power stations, controlled floods, and modernized agriculture and home conditions in the poverty-stricken Tennessee Valley. The repeal of prohibition also brought in new tax revenues and helped him keep a major campaign promise.

notice my bold?

time to harvest hemp me thinks

The US population in 1935 wen the WPA was enacted was 127 million.

http://www.infoplease.com/year/1935.html

The current US population is around 304 million.

So the population now is about 2.7 times what it was then.

Lets see John Debate an issue with someone who will call out his lies!

I like that idea TONS

Honestly, it’s like being in a family where Dad brings home the paycheck and spends it all on himself, all the while yelling at the wife and kids that they have no right to exist or expect anything from him.

selfish buttheads.

Agreed let the states vote on it. California could fund everything then!

I thought that was already in the bill…resodding the mall? :P

A 1932 dollar would be worth between $44-$52 2008 dollars. So $145.2- 171.6 billion. In terms of its fraction of GDP, it would be much higher: $2.65 trillion

So the population now is about 2.7 times what it was then.

that means 5 and one half trillion dollars to equal the stimulous package

combine that with the fact that most economists thought fdr was not quite bold enough to succeed

The economy is not attacking us…it is a problem not an emergency. Terrorism is an emergency. An airplane crash is emergency…extreme turbulence is a problem. Get it???

But I should add many households nowadays need two or more incomes to stay above water so some multiplier would be needed for these as well.

I also heard today on NPR that around 80% of those losing jobs in the recession are male. This is because a lot of the job losses occurred in male dominated industries like manufacturing and construction.

Yeah, it gets worse…Jane’s got a new post upstairs…

Gotta go, Pups, before my blood-pressure goes up any more.

FunnyDiva

Cool Thanks again Hugh:)
Then Obama needs to create 2 million * 2.7 = 540,000,000 jobs by my calculations if he wants to equal what FDR did.
Hmmm sounds like a Dem talking point

Yeah, tell me again how domestic violence programs are unnecessary in this economic climate, rightwing asshats!

FunnyD

combine that with the fact that most economists thought fdr was not quite bold enough to succeed

Next Dem talking point!

I also heard today on NPR that around 80% of those losing jobs in the recession are male. This is because a lot of the job losses occurred in male dominated industries like manufacturing and construction.

Also men are paid more so it makes sense to cut their jobs.

Uh, I’m getting 5.4 million from that arithmetic, man.
5,400,000. Too many zeros…

FunnyD

Did they fund the modern GI bill (can’t remember if this passed & signed into law)?

The WWII GI bill had one of THE best ROI for investment…… for every $1.00 spent there was a return of $8.00 but what it did for the country is beyond counting in dollars. A new generation of doctors, scientists, engineers, educators, etc helped build the booms in technology, medical research and untold others. It also fueled the education of 2-3 generations beyond the original recipients.

Next Dem talking point!

Dems, talk? You jest.

Your Right We need some Bloggers on the MSM to do the pushback against the GOP.

Thank you math is not my best subject Damm GOP I have to try and do math because they don’t ask the right questions, lie, etc!

The economy is not “attacking” us in the usual sense of that word. However, if unemployment continues to rise without something BOLD being done about it, then we’re going to end up with social unrest at a level which will qualify (at least in my mind) as an emergency. I can see it getting ugly…

There you go again with that “fuzzy math”.

The problem with presenting the facts in adjusted terms is that most of our esteemed representatives are incapable of assimilating such a concept. And the MSM? “Hey…what are all them numbers comin’ over the teleprompter? Call my agent!”

Shit.

My wonderful spouse has been working in DV for years.

please give her or him a big hug from me. have done a bit of volunteering (although am not now) and know how very important the work is.

The GOP will blame it on Dem morality. Just like they blamed birth control and hippies for bad morals.
As if a bad economy has nothing to do with a high divorce rate. As if some of the draft dodgers who got married to avoid the draft didn’t get divorced.
As if some of the troops coming back home from war didn’t have some very understandable problems adjusting.
Or their wives just found another guy while they were away.
I’ve noticed that some divorced people men and women do go through a slut phase for awhile once they are free.
Drugs well its like alcohol Prohibition forbid something that is not to bad and people will want to try it. Once they see that its not to bad like Pot then they laugh.
Coke, Heroin etc despite being even more addictive have never spread as much as Pot has threw the population why because they really are dangerous!

have done a bit of volunteering

You are wonderful. Volunteers are the backbone of not for profits.

NH is the first state to remove guns in DV cases thanks to the tireless work of my wonderful wife. She is the inspiration in my life.

Bush declared us to be in a state of war and assumed war powers, that I believe allows the Prez to invoke Martial law unilaterally, which is way beyond a state of emergency. Did Congress disagree we are in a state of war by revoking his power? The way to get the dead enders attention is to plant a boot where the sun doesn’t shine and force them to react. The DINO’s wouldn’t like it either, but they don’t have the equipment to piss off Obama.

*

[edit] History

Warren Atherton, National Commander of the American Legion in 1943, wrote to ask Harry Colmery, the 1936-1937 National Commander, to serve on a committee to look at veterans benefits following the end of World War II. This committee ultimately drafted and advocated for the adoption of the G.I. Bill of Rights.[1]

Harry W. Colmery, a World War I veteran and the former RNC chairman, wrote the first draft of the G.I. Bill.[2][3] He reportedly jotted down his ideas on stationery and a napkin at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, DC.[4] U.S. Senator Ernest McFarland was actively involved in the bill’s passage and is known, with Warren Atherton, as one of the “fathers of the G.I. Bill.”[5]

The bill was introduced in the House on Jan. 10, 1944, and in the Senate the following day. Both chambers approved their own versions of the bill.[6] The G.I. Bill is sometimes considered to be the last piece of New Deal legislation.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_Bill

My Bold Now this is what bipartisan looks like! John McCain should get a clue!

Any long term numbers on Green jobs including the savings from switching to hybrid cars? Any numbers for no more oil wars savings?

Sorry my comment at 75 was for everyone

This is for Arbusto. The President’s thinking that he could torture people is might have been influenced by the thinking that we were in Martial Law but was it ever officially declared?
Not that torture even then is not a WarCrime.
However a Great Depression might qualify.
How long and how bad does it have to get before we can call this Recession the Bush Depression?

I agree with Jon Stewart, host of TDS, who said, Why can’t they just give every adult american about $100K. That would stimulate the economy wouldn’t it?

you are lucky to have eachother!

Look, not to begrudge you your playground insults, but can we refrain from attempting to put men down by comparing them to women?

Can someone ban FreedomNow? It’s not fair — he wins every debate too easily. It’s undermining every precept I cherish.

McCain is evidently one of the biggest behind-the-scenes obstructionists set on tanking the stimulus bill.

Stabenow said this on Bill Press yesterday morning, if I am not mistaken.

I don’t think “Miss McConnell” is an attempt to compare him to a woman.

See: Klein, Howie,

So it’s a way of saying he’s effeminate? As in “woman-like?” How is that any less sexist?

I hear McCain openly matriculated at the Naval Academy.

Try using teh google.

John McCain….still banging rocks together and screaming at trees! I don’t think the guy even knows what day it is…let alone…what he’s saying. I watched him this morning when he was talking about the stimulus bill and he sounded as if he had just woken up!

A man wearing a woman’s wig robbed a bank:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29042062/

And who said men don’t like to dress up like women from time to time! LOL

The bill was GRAMM-RUDMAN. Apparently McCain still believes in Gramm.

Tax cuts don’t pull money out of the real economy, but they don’t force economic activity. They leave it up to business leaders to decide what to do. In today’s climate they’re likely to leave it in the bank.

Stimulus spending by government FORCES economic activity to happen.

Even with this difference I think some tax cuts, especially for small businesses, can be helpful to slow the downward spiral of the economy. It also spreads the stimulus money around a bit instead of focusing it in the hands of a few.

…Through the dust and the smoke of this man-made hell,
walked a giant of a man that the minors knew well.
Grabbed a sagging timber and gave out with a groan,
and like a giant oak tree he just stood there alone, Big John
Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John
…With jacks and timbers, they started back down,
then came that rumble way down in the ground.
And as smoke and gas smelched out of that mine,
everybody knew it was the end of the line, for Big John.
Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John
Now they never re-opend that wortheless pit,
they just placed a marble stand in front of it.
These few words are written on that stand,
‘At the bottom of this mine, lies one Hell of a man, Big John’
Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John.

by Johnny Cash – Big Bad John lyrics (EXCERPTED)

ADDITIONAL NOTE

RE: Big Bad John

SARCASM INTENDED

Okay, fine, so he’s supposedly closeted. That makes it okay to use the world’s oldest form of expressing homophobia to insult him with?