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The debate on the stimulus continues (watch it here).
Warning: don’t watch if you’re in the middle of lunch. The GOP’s increasingly hysterical objections to the bill are getting tough to stomach.
Coburn described it as "the largest generational theft bill we’ve ever had in the history of our country."
Yes, Coburn is a crazy person, but that’s pretty much the GOP party line on the stimulus bill.
There’s something deeply ridiculous about this debate. We just lost another 600,000 jobs. We’re talking about spending a fraction of what we’ll spend in Iraq — or even on the Pentagon over the past 4 years — to prevent further economic collapse, perhaps even a sustained depression.
Object to the bill, fine. But please STFU about how we’re hurting our grandchildren by investing in our own country.
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Thanks, BT
But the Iraq and defense spending was ok you see – that stimulus bill money is going to people who aren’t white…
But Nelson/Collins are going to make sure we put MORE defense spending in the bill, so it’s all good.
Huh. I’m sure Senator Coburn is just confused this morning… He thought they were debating last fall’s TARP.
Unfuckingreal.
‘Cuz God knows we underfund Defense something awful in this country ; ) I don’t know how they limp along with only half the federal budget at their disposal…
Well, how will we continue perpetual without increasing Defense funding ? /s
If the war department’s funding is $700billion and Suzie baby adds the entire $70 billion she claims to have found one has to wonder just how much good the 10% increase in funding will do for the killing machine.
Obama has to do the heavy lifting to promot the bill because Pelosi, Reid and every other Democrat in Congress other than Sen. Dodd and Rep. Frank is ….
A TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT
…when it comes to the economy.
Obama needs to train guys like Whitehouse and Leahy and some Congressmen how (a) to talk about the economy without simply reacting to BS republican talking points, and (b) how to fight, by taking the offense and exposing the Republicans to ridicule instead of acting like they make any sense at all.
Not that I am frustrated, or anything….
call them out on it PREZ OBIE
I HATE THESE MIECES TO PIECES
The senators and reps need to be absolutely HAMMERED on the concept of inflation-adjusted dollars. I realize that most of these idiots are not going to get it, but it doesn’t hurt to try. Repeatedly. Who knows? Maybe that other pack-o’-tards in the MSM might actually pick up on the idea, too.
Hey…I can dream.
OK, that’s it. I am so effin pissed at these damn eejits I am going to bone a lamb shoulder.
Theft bill? THEFT bill???? THEFT? BILL?????????
pLAY IT FOR THEM
OBIE WAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
That’s all they’ve got. nattering naysayers of negativism listening to the lying lemmings of Limbaugh.
make it stop! make it stop!
All our media are belong to GOP. It’s enough to give me a stroke about now.
Obama should ship these guys out on a bus to take a look around the real world. Make them share a bus and have bipartisan roommates. Visit the ERs, the ghost towns, the closed malls, all of it.
Jeebus
… and make them explain why following the failed policies of the U.S.S.R. is such a good idea …
now with amendments the bill went from $885 to $940B
heckuvajob!
Coburn described it as “the largest generational theft bill we’ve ever had in the history of our country, well except all those we passed when Bush was President. But then the money was going to the deserving rich, not these middle class leeches who never contributed to my campaign. Ah the good old days, there was theft you could believe in.”
I’m really tired of watching the GOP argue the ‘economics’ of the 1880s, when ‘capital’ was used to build railroads, steam engines, and the lightbulb was being invented. In that world, it was okay to let out oil and mining leases, and to claim that ‘investors’ and banks lent money to build railroads and ships.
But in a networked world, economics are fundamentally different.
Products — like blogs, education, medical care, research, and even banking — rely on intellectual resources, rather than on minerals and gas.
Our critical resources involve electricity production and delivery, and building educational resources. We don’t swing hammers; we organize information.
Yet the GOP uses an economic model that is even more outdated than the Model T.
And the press enables this level of stupidity.
I can’t believe how disastrous this is.
I find it astounding that the GOP is actually this clueless.
It’s just mind boggling.
This disaster needs to be placed at the feet of both the GOP, and the idiots on teevee who let them blather falsehoods and economic theories that worked in the early 1800s, but don’t fit a networked world at all.
i rememberv when bob dole was campaigning and saying clinton gave us the largest tax increase in the history of mankind. LOL. They figure as long as they say “spending” people will say “spending = bad. tax cuts = good.” don’t think it’ll work. enough.
There is NOTHING anyone can do to reason with insanity.
outta here. bbs.
Can’t have Pork without Sweet Potato Pie …
A lizard brain response to GOP lies? How many people here also feel that way about GOP lies/Fox News?
The GOP propaganda has been caught to many times lying, simply repeating something as if it were true over and over again is if my thinking is right starting to produce diminishing returns.
We push back we refute the GOP arguments we make GOPers in everyday life look silly they don’t like looking silly some get quiet, some look for increasingly smaller safer places to talk, others change their minds.
This is a fascinating time to study group dynamics.
The thing is we know the GOP uses advertising agencies to test and plan their talking points.
The advertising agencies should have warned them about this increasing GOP problem of lack of Cred.
yeah. generational theft. didn’t they always used to say that running up deficits was gebnerational theft? i guess not when yer fighting a war on terror for 7 years.
Military spending was what actually brought down the Soviet Union. Perhaps we should start calling our rethugs “Apparachiks?”
I don’t think even the Soviets of the 1970s could have f*cked things up worse than the GOP of the early 21st century.
And given the phenomenal environmental destruction of the USSR, plus their delusional invasion of Afghanistan, that’s really saying something.
I can’t believe these idiots are allowed to operate automobiles and answer phone calls, let alone make economic decisions that affect us all.
I thought that I was angry over Plame, but I am seething over the GOP stupidity at this point. And I want to see the tax returns of every damn one of these asshats.
No return on investment once the money is spent. Unless you win a war and get stuff in return that pays for the war and gives you a profit.
I agree with you about the stupidity, but not the astonishment. Isn’t the definition of conservatism that you don’t adapt to change? Doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but that is how they are. They don’t adapt to change and they never question anything, ask to see the supporting data, etc. If the assertion fits their black-and-white dogma, then that’s it, just give me my marching orders and talking points.
I come from a family of ‘em in which I am the mutant and it seems to me like they get the talking points beamed directly to their brains each morning…but I know it is Faux Snooze really.
No one is more shocked about the stimulus than Senator David Vitter. I mean stimulated.
Yup.
Did anyone happen to see Paul Krugman on Morning Joe?
He looks sad and exhausted, almost heartbroken.
His expression was quite revealing.
Almost hopeless.
That would be incredible transparency … revealing tax returns of every Congresscritter on a public domain.
Is there some central collection point of video clips of Republicans speaking about sinking the stimulus plan?
That repository will be gold in about 18 months when these weenies are ramping for re-election.
Who was that asshat from Nebraska, who kept repeating that he couldn’t get excited over the stimulus, failing all the while to see the pun ?
Not that I know of but thats a great idea:)
yeah, especially when they asked him to come in to the studio for a visit. You could tell he was thinking “I’d rather poke forks into my eyes.”
The MSM is not even bringing up what happens on election day and the economy will get worse for at least a year before it gets better even if we had an FDR stimulus bill.
Standing against Jobs in a Depression before election day sounds like standing in front of a truck.
I watched 30 seconds of Mornin’ Joe before feeling an aneurysm take hold, so I switched to Sesame Street, which was much more insightful …
This raises an interesting idea. Mine. (I always think my ideas are interesting. For a while.) I think there should be a mandatory economics for 2009 seminar for Congress critters. Now. Right now. Tomorrow. Captive audience. With handouts and everything. wOOt!
Furthermore, I think there should be mandatory continuing ed courses for Congress critters on various aspects of their governance. Labor. Healthcare. Good manners. (Ooops, that one slipped in there.) Are they required to do anything like that, or is it purely experiential, partisan learning?
He was expecting another kind of Stimulus so he is understandably disappointed No tax cuts for diapers.
This is what I would love to hear Obama say to Mitch McConnell;
http://www.aprilwinchell.com/m…..NORANT.mp3
And I would bet money this is what he is thinking right now about the giant mess this country is in;
http://www.aprilwinchell.com/m…..ICATED.mp3
only problem is that they wouldn’t fund it
Clockwork Orange style.
Ewwwww. Thus sinketh another great idea. (sigh) *g*
Yeah, wait until those Alt A and those other Option whatever loans come to fruition to do their bad deeds in the economy as predicted in that 60 minutes segment…
Something has to be done.
This morning, I got my very own personalized, for my eyes e-letter from President Obama. Apparently Tim Kaine is recording a video for just plain folks, explaining the stimulus and its impact on them/us. House parties a venue for seeing the video. Hope it’s a good one and that it will see wider distribution. If it is, let’s push it.
Or the MSM could quiz McCain about just what he does know about the economy at all these press interviews he is giving against Obama’s economic stimulus.
Lets see McCain explain anything economic without lying. Lets see if anyone in the MSM will call him on it.
Is there anything we might do other than complain that might reach more people? Print MSM is hopeless. Like repubs generally, it’s time is past. As for radio and television, coverage is no better, but it is more powerful. We can’t beat them there, but we can beat them on the internet if we figure out a way to go global. Perhaps we need a new format, rather than have comments on single issues, have headlines like the NYTimes home page, with comments for each with the date and time of the last comment. Perhaps to make it more businesslike we strip identifiers from comments so no one knows who comments, just the substance of the comment. I don’t know what form it will take-perhaps an “our space” kind of site, but unless we come up with a non-hierarchical, inclusive means to decide on actions and then act, we are not going anyplace and it is not going to stop.
It’s so important to remind people repeatedly that the Republics caused all of this to happen. They were in charge. They set the policies in motion. Republics hope to rise again by having voters forget.
If only the House Speaker and the Senate Majority Leader were not mutes…
Oh, Jesus, Mary, & Joesph… I have a boatload of the same. Good hearts, good work ethics, and generous to a fault. Good people in many ways, but their worldview is pretty damn narrow. However, the whole lot of them grew up hearing stories of the Depression, and FDR sat at the right hand of Jesus Christ until Reagan came along in 1980. (Some of them voted Obama, but largely because of Abramoff and corruption. If Obama can tie the GOP ‘tax cuts’ to the assholes on Wall Street, he’ll have even my Bible-thumping, Dutch Reformed former logger cousins at his back.)
They’re not big thinkers, but if you steal their money, lie to them, dish them lying bullshit on the teevee, once they connect the dots, they’ll never listen to the GOP again. Ever.
That’s the only possible silver lining I can spot from where I sit today.
That number is not a factual number..Defense constitutes a small component of the Budget (entitlements are by far the greatest). We need at least three more carrier groups and to fill out the F-22 fighter fleet.
The bill is already too full of compromises to the failed policies of Reaganism — we can’t afford any more. But then Republicans know that if they can get more of their ideas into the bill, the more likely it is to fail and they see that as a good thing for the next election.
They don’t care how many people get hurt, they just need Obama’s stimulus plan to fail.
John Kerry did a good job. Diaper vitter up now talking about acorn these rethugs are terminally stooopid. Maybe Thune is up in his office playing with money again. Day before yesterday he had the astounding trivia of how high a pile of money would be. Yesterday he one upped himself with the idiocy of how long it would be if we put one hundred dollar bills end to end. I think brain bleach is going to be a growth industry.
I did notice slipping support for W in the last year in my family, but it was more along the lines of he screwed up not that the philosophy was barren in the first place. Nah, mine will never change. We just don’t talk about it…has been that way since Spiro Agnew resigned.
ThinkProg sums up the PR problem with this “debate:”
Some things just haven’t changed.
My dittohead calls W “poor guy”.
ughhh.
Here here!!!! How do we get that meme into the echo chamber?
Leave them in and let Obama do his first signing statement.
Ummm…we still need those “minerals and gas” to make the 21st century technology work…
Yes! signing statements! we have signing statements now!
bwahahahaha!
That parrot is dead, sir!
from fool.com. sorry to go all o/t. did anyone post about this yesterday? It’s like saying the sky is falling and oh, what? never mind.
LHP upstairs with the GOP Taliban.
Why not?
Attorneys have to take CLE courses to maintain good standing in the bar. (CLE = Continuing Legal Education.)
Accountants have to maintain ongoing updates and seminars to maintain their professional credentials.
Educators have to attend conferences and maintain current publication requirements.
Physicians – or at least researchers – have to continue to publish and attend conferences and seminars.
Professional computer developers have conferences online, as well annual events (athough MacWorld won’t continue, something else will take its place).
Given the amounts of money and the responsibilities of a 21st century Congress, this should be **mandatory** and they can function just like other professions — list the seminars, conferences, and levels of expertise they’ve reached on their letterhead and websites.
Only if the providers of those seminars keep a public list of which members of Congress have mastered the basic concepts offered in that session.
This is an idea whose time has definitely arrived.
The operative part of the statement, I believe.
The sad part is that McCain probably believes it.
Sadder still, the MSM doesn’t have the brain cells and smarts and background to call him on it.
The media is a huge part of this disaster.
They’ve been absolutely irresponsible. (Except for Maddow, and even Tweety when he interviewed Bernie Saunders.)
OMG. I opened up CSPAN 2 to Lindsey Graham. Offsets. Remove spending. Take away from states no rhyme or reason to give to FDIC.
And now K Conrad calling state funds a slush fund – WTF? We’ve reduced that by 70%!!!
Aieeee! Don’t think I can take much of this.
Guess I should try calling my senators, but honestly, it’s such a waste of time – neither Cornyn nor Hutchison will pay any attention.
OMG, they’re going to let Graham talk again before Sen. Dodd!
I don’t have a job, btw, have been spending my time working on that personal issue – . Sigh.
Drive the bus past lots of empty buildings with ‘for lease’ signs, too, then take them to lunch at a homeless shelter – they get to donate to the shelter (everything in their wallets, including the credit and debit cards, would be a good start).
I’d like to ask these guys why, if tax cuts are so good for the economy, we’ve been sliding into a hole since the 2000 election. (They didn’t work the time before that, either, but politicians have long-term memory problems and can’t remember that far back.)
They travel home and meet with their constituents at the country club.
Yes, we do.
But ‘tax cuts’ are not the key factor in obtaining them.
There are entire industries and economic sectors that were built on the public infrastructure of public education and ‘good government’ like water systems, interstate highways, and food inspectors that didn’t exist in the 1800s.
Why the GOP can’t grasp a concept that simple is stupifying.
Honest to God, I’m beginning to wonder what role substance abuse may play in the thought processes of some of these GOP members. Time to re-read John Dean’s “Conservatives Without Conscience”, I suppose. This is definitely Exhibit A.
I’ve wondered that many many times.
This is your brain on drugs…
What you are neglecting to mention is that defense constitutes the largest nondiscretionary portion of the budget. If by “entitlements” you mean something like SS, I would like to hear your idea on what to replace it with
Care to refute this?
Context
More here
http://useconomy.about.com/od/…..efense.htm
FYI. It depends on what definitions you use and sources, of course, but using appropriations, the Congressional Research Service says the Iraq debacle will receive about $657B:
“This $864 billion total covers all war-related appropriations from FY2001
through part of FY2009 in supplementals, regular appropriations, and continuing
resolutions. Of that total, CRS estimates that Iraq will receive about $657 billion
(76%), OEF about $173 billion (20%), and enhanced base security about $28 billion
(3%), with about $5 billion that CRS cannot allocate (1%). About 94% of the funds
are for DOD, 6% for foreign aid programs and embassy operations, and less than 1%
for medical care for veterans. As of July 2008, DOD’s monthly obligations for
contracts and pay averaged about $12.3 billion, including $9.9 billion for Iraq, and
$2.4 billion for Afghanistan. “
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Thanks for the article. Nicely done.
Doing too many things at once
This
Should say
For what purpose do we need three more carrier groups?
To replace the ones that would get sunk in the first moments of a shooting war. They are siting ducks for submarines. There are two types of ships-Submarines and Targets. Every Carrier at sea almost always has at least one non-friendly submarine trailing it, just in case.
Properly EPU’d and vetted, I discovered something relevant to the discussion.
As I was stacking old notebooks and such to cull and glean before we move, what should flutter to the floor but an antique Salada teabag tag.
The tag’s message, gently altered by yours truly:
“A perfect example of minority rule is a baby in the
houseSenate.”Dare me to send it to Huckleberryyyyyybabyyyyyyyyyyyy, any or all of the Bluedogs or ???. Double-dare me! *g*
McCain is an absolute genius when it comes to the economy s/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fMqwRobuQ
Yep soon as Bush entered office everything was his fault. By that logic everything happening now is Obama’s fault. the Demos have been in control of congress for 2 years now too. The unfettered tech boom and its resulting crash set a lot of this in motion as well. Printing more and more money and funneling it through the government will not solve things, the government will eventually run out of money, when the investors dry up. Make it possible for the people to make more money and invest our own money. This is how the United States became great and powerful to begin with. We are not great because the government made us great it was our people and the freedom they had to make us great. The more power (money) we give to the government the less freedoms we all have, it is directly proportional. Look at our freedoms compared to other developed countries, look at our opportunities and wealth-generating possibilities that we have. Why give that up, it doesn’t make sense and it never has!!
:-) You forgot the /rant symbol.
What’s “bbs” stand for, Bloviating Blogging Swine?
For what? Nobody is coming for us and we aren’t going to try and conquer the world. If you consider the threats to us it’s mostly economic and terrorism. Those don’t require so many carrier groups or big military. They mostly require smart people and good intelligence gathering.
Would he hesitate or make such speeches if the question was whether we should spend that much money to protect the country from a military enemy? What’s the difference? Being conquered militarily would be a mite worse, but utter economic collapse would be no garden party.