1?

Our voices don’t seem to have been heard. Reality bites hard. They haven’t felt it yet. Perhaps because they are all wealthy? It is rather sickening to see business as usual from someone promoting change.
I hope it doesn’t become spare change now that the treasury is empty.

It’s getting harder and harder to buy American even if you want to.

Ding.

Senate Republicans say their tax-breaks only bill creates 6.1 million jobs?

How the heck do they get there?

They reached around behind themselves and pulled it out of their …?

Can’t think of anyplace else

Summers may ultimately win this round, but he’s got a problem in the long-haul: his personality. Gosh darn it, people just don’t like Larry.

I don’t like Larry because he seems committed to doing just enough to get us into a depression. Obama is a fool to listen to him.

Bush is the primary architect of the coming depression. Obama is next because he refuses to address it forcefully. And Summers, Geithner, and Rubin are its godfathers because they did so much to create the deregulation that caused the housing bubble and financial meltdown and the inept policies to deal with them.

Reid claimed he had the votes but also says the “moderates” are still meeting to try and craft their proposal.

Doesn’t sound like things are quite that firm.

They make it up.

Tax breaks for people do not create jobs…it just gives tax breaks to people who are already broke. They have to create business projects…things that require employees. America has been depleted of businesses that require warm bodies..i.e., unless you live in India.

One of the problems about the infrastructure job creation, is who are the workers that are out of work now that can physically perform the hard labor that will be required to “rebuild” the infrastructure?

We need projects that cannot be more easily performed by workers overseas.

How do we get out of this?

I only buy american cheeseburgers.

I want to buy an american car- but it’s hard to know how to determine a car’s citizenship nowadays.

I don’t think that it should be a requirement to buy US-made materials, but US-made materials should be favored. The rationale is that US manufacturers and workers pay taxes, so the feds get some of that money back. As long as the US manufacturer isn’t charging double what the foreign manufacturer is charging, taxpayers win.

So the requirement could be structured in a way that approximately minimizes cost when taxes are taken into account. Accountants can figure out how to do this.
My guess is that the foreign manufacturer would have to be at least 30% cheaper to win under those circumstances, unless it does much of the work in the US, in which case the premium would be less.

I heard on my community radio station news that the Buy American provision stays in the bill. Rethug efforts to have it removed failed.

Summers and Rubin have got to go. Our country can’t afford these free trade neoliberals dictating economic policy. We’re stuck with Geithner until he self-destructs but we’ve got to figure out a way to ditch these other 2 neoliberals.

I don’t think anything can really prevent the death spiral. The stim package or even tax cuts may make some think it’s coming to an end and spend, but every one know when this is over it will be like the day after. We will not even be able to recognize America.

I see empty stores all over the place, I see buildings closed up. And this is in southern westchester a very rich area.

The worst is yet to come. Stock up will you can.

The republicans have a really great arithmetician that comes up with all this great stuff. A war that will pay for itself, UAW workers making $73/hr. This guy/gal is really great

Tomorrow the January job numbers will be out and it is likely to show that Bush created only around 2.5 million jobs during his Presidency, and that is with all his tax cuts. Clinton created something like 22.7 million during his time in office.

I consider Rubin a criminal and Summers a BS artist. Remember his sexist remark when he was at Harvard? Why is anyone giving this jerk and creds?

Are you sure. Bought some meat the other day the country of origin was listed as Mexico/Canada/USA

Here are hilights from the “moderates” proposal

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/…..-children/

… Sens. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Ben Nelson (D-NE) have proposed cutting from the economic recovery package. Many of these cuts, however, would disproportionately affect women and children — similar to the cuts to the House bill. Some highlights:

– $150 million cut to the Violence Against Women Act

– $50 million to the Victims of Crime Act

– $25 million to the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Forces

– $1.1 billion to Head Start

– $50 million to Teacher Quality Partnership Grants

– $5.2 billion for Prevention And Wellness (including diabetes screening and HIV testing)

– $13.9 billion for Pell Grants

– $2 billion for Child Care Development Block Grants

Here’s how R’s think tax cuts work.

Rich folks get em and they then have more money to spend so they go and hire an another chaffeur or gardener. They won’t hire more workers at their plant because they don’t have orders to fill. But if they get those tax cuts their earnings don’t suffer so they can by the wifey some baubbles and a new yacht and that means someone has to polish it.

that’s a post

Anyone here get the impression Obama has met his Peter Principle? He surrounded himself with neo-liberal economists plus of course his pal Emanual, gave away his bargaining points before even talking to the opposition, thought the GOP cared anything about low or middle income tax payers, lost the first battle, continues to cut stimulus from the bill and now expects to pickup the ball after most Americans think it stinks. Shit, at least Bushie had Darth Vader at his back!

Well yeah- it gets tricky- but at least the cheeseburger was FRIED in america.

Does that 2.5 million include all the new hires at DOJ and other agencies and new/re-enlistees in the military? Created 2.5 million jobs in 8 years. Lost 500,000+ in Dec. Since he got booted on the 20th I’ll only ding him for 300,000 of the jobs lost in Jan. Those two figures alone are nearly one-third of his total job creation number.

So true (Hi Tex).

I want to buy American but everything is made in Cheneyland, China.

That critter got around.

got epu’d earlier, but did anyone else catch this “buying American” nightmare of an outrage from US company IBM?

anyone catch this outrage from IBM:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/0…../index.htm

Outsource yourself. IBM is offering its own laid-off US workers to go work in one of IBM’s plants abroad, in places like India, presumably on local terms. They’ll kindly help with the visa application and moving expenses (and nothing else).

So even a “buy American” requirement may not help much.. might be an American worker in an Indian sweatshop. Urghhh. To say that these people are ethically impaired about would be an insult to garden variety felons everywhere.

In fact, I would suggest that my comment 13 represents a possible compromise between Biden and Summers. Save the taxpayers money and favor American workers, at the same time. Proposals for bids can include the dollar amount together with the estimated US taxes that would be paid by the company and its workers.

There are now tomatoes in my store stickered with Product of Mexico…I wouldn’t mind except for the bad PR from last year. And I live in California. We grow lots of stuff.

Very good point, TexBetsy. The only American products in my area are the local people who have farms and sell their goods or make specialized goods. Other than that, not much is American.

Holy crap! now they are exporting Americans?

I did. I did an Oxdown a couple of days ago on it..but nobody cared. Thanks for bringing it to light!!!

I was just wondering if people will “return” to sewing their own clothes, etc. Kinda hard when Old Navy and Walmart offer cheap threads and fabric so expensive.

But I wonder if some kinda movement might arise in this regard. Make your own USA goods.

Not really OT – An entire piece on the stim bill on All things Considered just now – at least 4 to 6 min. — entirely with Lamar Alexander on why REpub plans are “what the country wants” and if it doesn’t work it will be b/c “the Pres and the Dem Congress just couldn’t work with Republicans…”

AAAAgh. I am so sick of this! Why are they talking to the Losers still? Why isn’t that Sen. J. Reed being interviewed on ATC? Lamar Alexander???? You.Have.Got.to.be.Kidding.Me.
(snarl. off to email the malefactors)

such assholes

Right…I have a problem seeing the spoiled youth that have their thumbs stuck on texting, ever coming around to sewing their own clothes…

We’ll end up with a revolution of sorts when they finally get what’s goin’ on.

Already reports today of highest unemployment figures is 20+ years.

I calculate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers and it will be from January 2001 to January 2009. They’re not broken down weekly so Bush will get stuck with with all of January.

Showed some of their pictures on the TV…including Landrieu. Jeeeeez

Gosh, it’s wonderful to have a president who isn’t shackled to his campaign promises, especially those made to get elected in the face of rampant corporatist greed, selfishness, and corruption!

Yes, I look less at the unemployment rate and more at the total employment numbers. eCahn has made the excellent point of looking at the U-6 numbers that include unemployed, part-time, and underemployed.

If we have to make our own clothes I will be wearing tie-dyed sheets. Almost break out in a rash at the sight of a needle and thread. :)

sorry.. been too busy at work tryin’ to keep my own job, so I must’ve mised it ;-P.

This is a complete outrage. Outsourcing American workers to developing markets, where they will be under local labor laws, at local wages.. you get the benefit of American skills, training and knowhow without any of the downsides (from a corporate thug’s point of view – benefits, employment rights, greater-than-minimum-wage-pay, etc, etc).

I’m not sure I know what “buy American” means anymore in this context. Maybe buying from company’s like Toyota is better.. at least we know that their product is made in Northern Georgia.

I went to work as a programmer at a start-up dot com early in 2000. A lot of the founder’s time was spent trying to get funded by venture capitalists. By the end of the year, when the dot com bubble burst, the venture capitalists were funding only those start-ups who off-shored their programming to Russia. The Indians quickly took over that area as well.

I was just wondering if people will “return” to sewing their own clothes, etc. Kinda hard when Old Navy and Walmart offer cheap threads and fabric so expensive.

Bingo. I’ve been wanting to sew some more (used to make a lot of my clothes years ago), but I look at teh fabric store and at the retail store, and think damn, it isn’t any cheaper to make something of good quality. And since fabric stores have shifted heavily to crafts and quilting over fashion sewing, it’s hard to find interesting, unique fabrics. When I was sewing, the fabric store was the place to find unique fabric.

But I like your suggestion for a movement – remember, Gandhi began his independence movement by insisting that Indians return to making their own fabric and clothing from their homespun fabric instead of importing from Britain and elsewhere.
This was a big deal – India had been a huge exporter of fabrics before Britain took it over – and passed laws (similar to those imposed on its American colonies re trade) requiring India to buy its fabric from Britain. You’ll notice pix of Gandhi in this period often show him with a spindle (as I remember).

The US is on the list for Europeans to adopt our children …… when a country allows foreigners to adopt their children then that country is a third world country…..

Frivolous pork, all of it.

Gosh, don’t be sorry!!! I’m so glad you brought it up!!! :) Yay.

It’s time for Obama to reach across the aisle and shake hand with the people who voted for him.

Are you serious? Please tell me this is a joke…

Navy taught me how to sew. Only problem is that it was with canvas and involved a needle and palm. Plus the only stitch I know is a herringbone.

That’s not the only problem with infrastructure projects as stimulus – The engineering and design work needs to be done first and it takes time. And trades people are increasingly of… mature years and are retiring in droves. Which means that people need to be trained, and that takes time too. On top of that, trades and other manual work are not popular with younger workers – they’ve been taught that college is the route to go.

There is a similar thing happening here in Canada with the latest budget. Harper wants to stimulate the economy using things like grants for home renovations. Well, in my province, we have a labour shortage right now. Good luck finding a carpenter and doG help you if you need an electrician. So it won’t work.

Lamar Alexander sounds like the kind of guy who abuses a spouse….you know, you made me do it. Lies….

They had grapes advertised here (unfermented) and I went to get some till I saw that they were from Chili where they do not have any controls on pesticides etc. I may be cheap but not that stupid.

OMFG! I did not know that! that’s just, I don’t know, shocking. jeez.

i hope no one here thinks i’m a fan of larry summers…

but i still disagree with focusing on the lack of a “buy american” provision.

first because i don’t support it. and second, aren’t there other things we could be asking the senate to change that would be more helpful to american workers?

I’m with you. Great points.

Ah – let me take your name….

I’ve been trying to figure out a non-outsourceable kind of work that I am able to do as the economy goes farther and farther south…

been thinking maybe it’s to do the mending and repair for folks like you.

At the rate we’re going, we’ll soon be back to wearing respectable, neatly patched and mended clothing to work and school.
I once knew how to – and actually did! – darn socks, too. It may be time to start darning again. ; )

6.1 million mirrors.

And with smoke, there’s even more!

Digg this great post, please!

LOL … sort of…

Toga, toga, toga

I think it’s too soon to tell. He doesn’t even have his cabinet installed yet. yeah, he’s made some mistakes, but he’s got a huge job. we need to be patient

Explaining the buy American concept on the flow of money on Tula’s post.

Low income earners spend 100% of their income, middle income spends most of their income with a saving rate around 2%. When increases are given to low and middle income earners then more money is in circulation. They increase the demand for employees because they have the money to buy food, daycare and medical services. Then the grocery store hires more employees to deal with the demand.

By keeping the stimulus plan money inside the USA, then the job creation grows exponentially. Build roads, repair bridges, build mass transit systems, these employees spend their income mostly in the local economy and that additional taxes helps the bottom line.

The goal should be to keep almost ALL of the stimulus package money inside the US not as protectionist but because the more money in circulation benefits everyone.

Maybe you can be a trend-setter – canvas clothes. Should be fairly cheap “g”

..actually that would violate the subsidiarity principle on adoption, in international law (that adoption of infant children without a family connection, across borders cannot occur so long as the sending country has the ability to care effectively for the children in question). IAA 2000 (which Clinton signed into law and the senate ratified, and then shrubco promptly ignored for 8 years) makes subsidiarity the law of the land in the US as well. Anyone engaging in the commercial adoption of American children is breaking the law.

LOL!!!

and caftans remember those?

Hey, denim is just a lighterweight form of canvas. There ya go!

But that’s part of the deal – these are supposed to be a lot of “shovel ready” projects where the engineering work has been done and have just been waiting for funding to come down the pipe.

But you are correct about the trades work.

Lots of handmade stuff on etsy.com

I wonder if you can convo people there with your services?

Good point about U-6 numbers. Googled and came up with this

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/…..nt-re.html

Very telling graphic if you scroll down

Made a skirt in home ec class in high school. Wouldn’t have been caught dead in it. I can paint a room, move the furniture or take out the garbage but sewing is beyond me.

Oh and interesting sidenote. Jim DeMint of all people leading the charge to amend the CPSIA act (to shape up toy manufacturers) to allow small crafters to sell their wares without testing (which is really expensive and applies to all childrens products and all materials, even non dangerous ones). Just saying. I smell a rat whenever DeMint is around but this might actually be a good thing and he’s getting good PR on etsy.com.

That’s a great point. Buy American, like pork, is just a way to focus attention on the bright shiny objects. It changes nothing that the bill has too many tax cuts and too little spending to create jobs immediately. It also distracts form Summers loony tunes program to bail out the banks.

I love etsy – only wish I were creative enough to make and sell stuff there. Often think I should be using my unemployed time trying to think up something (more or less) original instead of trying to send resumes and schmooze for a regular old salaried job that may not exist.

But, I encourage anyone who isn’t familiar with etsy to check it out…especially for handmade, original, not-mass-produced-in-China(or anywhere else) children’s clothes, toys, other products.

No joke….
American Children Are Being Adopted in Foreign Lands

Foreign Adoption of African-American Babies Grows

All Things Considered, July 17, 2005 · Americans adopted more than 22,000 foreign-born children last year. But the trend is reversed for some African-American and mixed-raced babies born in the United States. Those children are leaving the country, adopted by foreigners living abroad.

Here’s part of the deal. An American will gladly spend a bunch of $$ to buy I-phones or computers…or flat-screen TVs…or cars that get good gas mileage and are well-designed..or toys by the ton…or cool jeans or t-shirts or jackets..or coffee makers, etc., etc…

All of these items are made overseas and sometimes “assembled” over here. Well…helloooooo…..Why? Because of slave labor in foreign countries…and no one putting a stop on that kind of business going overseas….the owners of the businesses are rewarded by great profit by our consumerism or afluenza..

Now, America wakes up and goes Ruh Roh….how do we make the money to buy what we want???? Doh.

Start making it here.

It is the American economy that has reached its PETER PRINCIPLE.

So you’re the ringer I saw on Project Runway. One of the ones eliminated early??? :]

And where did denim originate????

My mother likes to sew and does still make her famous Norwegian mittens for all of us. ;-) Me? I have a sewing machine and only use it once in a blue moon.

Oh, lord, my home ec projects were horrible, too. Sewing was nothing but a chore.
Then my family moved to another state and I fell in with girls who not only read, but made their own clothes for fun! (And to save money, of course). I followed their lead.
Another example of the influence of peer pressure….

Some bozo on MSNBC just suggested that Obama should appoint Newt Gingrich to HHS.

He said that that would send a very bi-partisan message.

Unbelievable!

I have a really cool shirt, but it’s missing buttons…I can’t find the sewing kit I got at the hotel a couple of years ago…I’m totally hopeless!

Buy American is all fine and good – though as a Canadian I worry about the impact on Canadian manufacturing and resource industries. And I worry about American willingness to live by the terms of existing trade agreements.

But here is the thing – American manufacturing capacity cannot be built up overnight. It is not as if there is up-to-date machinery lying around – it takes time to buy the equipment (from Germany or Japan by the way!), source materials, build a market, do R&D on products, develop manufacturing processes, get facilities AND train a workforce. And this will take time. It will not be an instant stimulus by any means.

LOL

the economic crisis is not only in the usa – it’s global and we’re going to need global solutions. making that happen is going to be difficult as it is, but if the usa is seen to be applying double standards to ourselves vs the ones we’ve been forcing on everyone else, it may be impossible. rightly or wrongly, we are already being blamed for the financial crisis

also, as i tried to argue in tula’s thread, i think this is going to undermine if not destroy years of cross border organizing – the kind of thing that helped to defeat the ftaa.

Gosh, people in the Senate have to listen to Sen Graham and McCain…what punishment.

Yep. And I’d LOVE to only BUY USA, but due to GOP/Banking/Big Biz thuggery, offshoring, outsourcing, etc. we don’t MAKE much stuff anymore, and the stuff we DO make is costly and lacking in foreign quality (in general, our WEAPONS are top shelf. Well, sorta. In comparision, maybe to Slobonia).

Other than my MIGHTY macintosh (*G*), I look around and well . . . not of lot of USA in our house . . . .

uhhhh…if memory serves, in a small French town called Nimes – originally called toile (?cloth?not looking up) de Nimes. “de Nimes” – “s” is silent – morphed to “denim.”
I should probably double-check…bbrb.

I wouldn’t even be surprised if that actually happened at this point…

Buy American, like pork, is just a way to focus attention on the bright shiny objects. It changes nothing that the bill has too many tax cuts and too little spending to create jobs immediately. It also distracts form Summers loony tunes program to bail out the banks.

in addition to all that, i fear it will feed the rightwing nativist sentiment. something i don’t want to do.

Jacob Davis was a tailor who frequently purchased bolts of cloth made from hemp from Levi Strauss & Co.’s wholesale house. After one of Davis’ customers kept purchasing cloth to reinforce torn pants, he had an idea to use copper rivets to reinforce the points of strain, such as on the pocket corners and at the base of the button fly. Davis did not have the required money to purchase a patent, so he wrote to Levi suggesting that they both go into business together. After Levi accepted Jacob’s offer, on May 20, 1873, the two men received patent #139,121 from the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The patented rivet was later incorporated into the company’s jean design and advertisements. Contrary to an advertising campaign suggesting that Levi Strauss sold his first jeans to gold miners during the California Gold Rush (which peaked in 1849), the manufacturing of denim overalls only began in the 1870s.

From wiki

Doesn’t seem like a ringer should go out early..?

Jeebus, I heard that too. I have been lots of Crazy USA today. someone finally spoke up for Dean. It’s on huffpo. sorry I don’t remember the name of the politician.

Lets not be assuming that all countries that export to the US use slave or sweatshop labour, she says waving her Canadian flag.

Ugh.. oh my god. NPR’s source checker needs to be fired.

The quoted “National Council for Adoption” is a far right-wing rethug think tank, allied with Sekulow’s ACLJ (of Pat Robinson fame) and funded heavily, in the past, by Gilder’s Discovery Institute.

They have spent years advocating for “saving” Black-American children by selling them to Europeans. NPR should be ashamed for quoting them as a source, for what is basically rethug wishful thinking. They do not represent mainstream views on adoption (or human rights) in any way shape or form.

The commercial adoption of American children abroad, by private adoption agencies, violates both the letter and spirit of our treaty obligations. Period. Full stop.

Drive by: Anyone who thinks labor is going to get a fair break with Summers is delusional. Ditto anyonne thinking it’s possible to stand up to Summers. The die is cast.

uh. oh I get it. you mean american born? white?

did anyone see the thing on newshour about how the Poles who left home to see work in Ireland, during their housing boom, are now returning to Poland now that Ireland is bust and Poland doing well. We’re going to turn into gypsies.

it’s a big teeter totter.

I’d be interested in a “Make American” provision in this whole mess. No more tax breaks as a reward for moving manufacturing offshore. (BTW, can anyone point me at where the “tax break for moving manufacturing out of the U.S.” law or reg lives? My Google-chops aren’t up to the task.

Welcome…I am so with you.

OT: Who is Orszag? What a poor speaker. Maybe he is a whiz kid, sure needs practice

Not all, but there would be no incentive for a US company to go overseas other than cheap labor and/or tax evasion or tax incentive, because a US company is not going to stay in this country and pay high wages and taxes to make their product, which they intend to sell back to the US and make a profit…the math for the company just isn’t there anymore, because the economy is completely out of balance.

Because of slave labor in foreign countries…and no one putting a stop on that kind of business going overseas….the owners of the businesses are rewarded by great profit by our consumerism or afluenza..

imo, you’ve hit on the central problem with the so-called “free trade” regimes as they have been structured – they create a race to the bottom with incentives for slave labor. this is what i wrote in an earlier thread:

i am 110% behind legislation that will prevent or add high tariffs to imports made by companies or countries that don’t have and enforce good labor rights (living wages, rights to organize, safety in the workplace, etc), because that is what we need to change. when we focus on the rights of workers everywhere, we in the usa are allies with workers in other countries and the fight is against those people who would deny workers right anywhere. “buy american” turns that battle into one between workers.

-he had an idea to use copper rivets to reinforce the points of strain, such as on the pocket corners and at the base of the button fly.

Gain a few pounds and the entire garment becomes a “point of strain.” I once explained to a svelte friend why a fat guy’s pants always ride low, put simply, they’re trying to get away.

Not this year we won’t, not with the water supply as bad as it is for a third year. It’s not national news, but CA is gonna go down HARD this summer. REAL hard.

It’s draught city times infinity.

Couple that with job losses and summer in the city is gonna get real ugly when temps 100F+ in the valley’s.

Huckleberry Graham has gone all Southern Belle on us.

How dare these Democrats!

He’s the tooliest of the tools.

-G

Okay, serge de Nimes, not toile.

http://www.denverfabrics.com/p…../denim.htm

One of the more interesting web sites with the answer; check this out:

Italian sailors from Genoa wear cotton trousers and the French call Genoa and the people who live there, “Genes.” The name “jeans” was applied to the pants as well.

The word dungarees (usually plural) is one of the few mainstream English words to have come from Hindi, one of the major languages of India. The source word in Hindi is dungr?, and refers to a type of coarse cloth.

I always wondered where “dungarees” came from – it was the standard word for jeans in the Boston area when I lived there in the ’70’s.

Oh! Our pols probably count you in as American. :P

No problem buying Canadian as long as the way the product was made was through humane and sane business practices.

I’ve never been in favor of s strictly buy american because we have been thumbing our noses at foreign countries for the past 8 years, the last thing we need is to antagonize a trade war (we don’t and can’t win that one) There has to be a happy medium where everyone may not be happy but at least everyone is equally okay/peeved, etc.

How about some start up money to produce hemp for clothing and other products. The hemp grown in the Philippines was used to make 3″ mooring and other lines for the Navy for prolly over a hundred years. Commonly referred to as Manila. Very strong and durable. Navy now uses nylon. This is a different hemp plant from the cannibis sativa that gets smoked by those dfhs.

In other news …

Treasury overpaid $78 bn for toxic assets

“At the time of the first set of transactions, Treasury substantially overpaid. According to the data we’ve investigated, Treasury put in about $254 billion for which it received about $176 billion in value from the financial instituions. That’s a shortfall of about $78 billion when measured as of the date of the transactions, not in terms of what happened to the markets since then . We want to emphasize there may be good policy reasons for overpaying. But without a clearly delineated reason, we can’t know that. We return to a theme that we have spoken about repeatedly, and that is the need for clear goals, for a clear framework, for methods for how we’re getting there and measurements to see if that is happening.”

http://www.swamppolitics.com/n…..or_to.html

Y’all got that right.

He just wasn’t brought up right and mother has been making excuses for him since he was kneehigh to a grasshoppah.

But i do believe in making it an equal playing field (import taxes) so that the goods made in cheaper labor markets do end up being the same price as those produced here so as not to reward the practices of many corporations. I dunno…

exactly. see my 103.

They should legalize all varieties. Used to think it might actually happen before I was too old to care. No longer holding my breath.

That’s why the stimulus needs to have two focuses. The first is for immediate short term effect. The second is to transition into a new industrial policy for the country.

john in sacremento #72,

I agree both the U-3 and U-6 unemployment numbers should be reported together. This has also been what eCahn has been doing for a few months now.

selise #91,

All countries are going to be favoring their own industries. We need to keep in mind that everyone’s overly protectionist tendencies must be combatted. It’s a balancing act.

Navy calls their work uniforms dungarees. Boston being an old sailing town…

My mom says that the feed sacks used to have floral (?) prints on them. She was still wearing feed sack skirts when she was a freshman at the University of Michigan.

Catch you later pups
gonna go get ready for a night out on the town to celebrate my bday. Best wishes to you all for a beautiful day

I thought holding your breath was the whole idea…oh never mind.

Happy birthday wobbly!

I’m a loyal reader of this site: please accept my apologies for hijacking this thread. The Vice President’s speech has not created an effective meme explaining why every citizen should support the stimulus package.

Too many unsuspecting American’s still depend on corporate (mainstream) media to understand their world. Many fallacious ideas still grip these individuals for the common reasons taught to us by history (repetition/ease-of-understanding/perceived-social-acceptability). Moreover, many of the people who helped get President Obama elected remain accepting of many constructs coming from the corporate media.

Our battle to support the agenda, and promise, of the Obama election campaign is already very much at risk. Moreover, failure has the terrible consequence of proving that government is always corrupt and incompetent. Failure creates a long lead-time before our next chance to help set this great country back on the track of its democratic ideals. We have already seen the republicans seize upon this thread – and it will continue as long as the President is weakened by having to bow through a right-wing window.

In the short term, our challenge is not merely to see the stimulus package enacted, but to ensure that it is implemented effectively. Our challenge is not to ’save’ the banking system, but to make sure that it is effective for our economy and that banking leaders are accountable for their actions. And the challenge is not merely to fight the dark-ages of the republican thinking, but to unite and make stronger the Democrats and other supporters of intelligent and progressive ideas and ideals.

Polling suggests that popular support for the stimulus package is already below 50%. We are losing this battle. We are losing a battle against foolish, corrupt, individuals who do not belong in positions power.

We need to not merely fight back. We need to be agressive and this requires a message that is clear and compelling – one that can be easily communicated to people, despite corporate media – a that virtually everyone can understand and accept.

Before going further, let me say that my words need to be worked, refined, polished and made eloquent. That is a task better suited to someone with different and better skills than mine. But, let me offer a starting point, I a germ of a meme than might help us shape the economic tides we face. Moreover, a meme that has the opportunity to reach elites and policy makers, demonstrating their own interest in supporting a more healthy economy and polity. Consider the following.

An economy, any economy, needs to be fed. The diet of an economy is things of value: money, raw materials, produced goods (including durables, non-durables, services, and food). But what is the economy? It is people. People who harvest and shape raw materials into products for consumers, and people who consume. When we take too much away from those who produce and consume, they cannot function and the economy no longer produces value. When the economy cannot produce value, even the rich are left to merely horde what they already have. When the economy is starved in small ways, we have a recession. When it is starved in big ways, we have a depression. All the economic indicators are pointing to high risk that we are entering a depression, and the time to fend off a depression is at the beginning.

The only way to solve our current economic crisis is feed the economy. We must give folks the ability to consume, and therefore the need to produce. It’s a bit like starting a car with a dead battery. We have to push the car before we can hop in and take it for a ride.

Cutting taxes won’t do this job – because there is too little upside for the common man in the form of tax relief. Interest rates won’t help when they are already effectively down to 0%. Only more and better jobs will solve our problem. People need the means reduce their credit load, and then the means to spend money without borrowing. Only good jobs can solve this problem in the long run. If anyone doubts this, they need only look at the real estate markets. Homes are selling at substantial discounts, and anyone qualified to borrow has access to very low interest-rate mortgages – yet the housing market continues to decline. Our economy is being starved.

In a capitalist society, it is not the job of businesses, or wealthy individuals, to feed the economy. They are merely participants in the economy. Instead it is only the government which can be authorized to put our economy back on a solid footing.

Anyone who disagrees with this POV should step forward and begin taking personal ownership for fixing our economy: hire employees, raise salaries, and purchase more goods and services (especially those that can be sourced in the U.S.).

Yes, there may be some who feel that it is not the job of government to fix our economy, but who also feel no responsibility to these ends. But, show me such a person and I will show you someone disloyal to his country and his fellow citizens. This person is a traitor to the rest of us and has no place among our society.

The time is now for the brave among us to step forward, and by sweat and perseverance make sure that we feed our economy and keep it strong.

Well, there is more than one side to this. Certainly when companies just ship their operations overseas the situation is likely just as you describe.

There is also the matter of American manufacturers buying components from manufacturers in other countries. This is the situation with the auto industries as well as a couple of bus makers I am personally familiar with. In those cases, Canada can compete on the basis of quality, productivity, and frankly, the low Canadian dollar and the Canadian health system. This is also true with aerospace – we have a mature aerospace industry that supplies a lot of components for American helicopters and munitions and such.

Arlen wants Obama “to succeed”; unlike Rush. That’s nice.

Met a guy the other day who was smokin his pants—musta been them manila things.

Yep. Don’t have access anymore though. All my friends grew up, dammit.

Flour Sack Skirts

Keep on truckin momma
truck those blues away

Oh! Our pols probably count you in as American. :P

AARGH! Fern goes screaming into the night.

Angry Man, great great comments. Please post in a diary with catchy title. May I suggest:

Chickens Home to Roost or Chickens in the Pot, or something……

Vintage flour sacks are probably worth a lot of bread now.

couldn’t help it. the devil made me do it~

The latest research out of Indiana University shows that the Cannabis that gets people high is all Cannabis indica, not Cannabis sativa. Never heard of making clothing out of manila hemp.

Unless the weevils got them….my were blouses

I think poor baby might cry.

I’m with you, wobbly. “I dunno….” It is very complicated. I believe selise’s explanation is why the Pres has cautioned against the proposed buy-American. It seems that the least little pro-home-team legislation in trade elicits retaliatory threats from trading partners.
And we sure have been pounding other countries to drop their own rules and regs, such as Europe not wanting GM food or hormone-fed beef, in the last 8 years.

Sigh. I can’t fault Obama for making some mistakes, or not getting certain things, even ones that are important to me like DOJ issues, done in the first two weeks. There is just SO MUCH S__T to even find out about, let alone figure out how to fix, let alone actually fix.
I wouldn’t want the job for any amount of pay.

If only that were one of the provisions in the Jobs bill, rsearching the viability of making clothes from hemp.
bwahahaahaha! I would love to watch the heads explode then.

Let’s plant some in the DC mall!!!

Ah, you may have hit upon it!

Thanks for that. I’ll show my mom.

My parents grew up during the Great Depression. Didn’t need recycling programs back then, nearly everything got repurposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_R._Orszag

he’s Obama’s director of the Office of Management and Budget. wiki says Stiglitz was an early mentor. More telling I think is that Rubin was. He is one of the ones I think behind Obama’s talk on entitlements.

In Negril we used unwaxed bread bags to build spliffs.

I can do buttons! LOL

I’m with you.

did someone say bluejeans? *g*

wear em every day w/ t-shirt (no logo) to demonstrate that we’re fed up with their ideas. i am comfortable every day, they last a good while and they’ve been cool for as long as i can remember.

Some of mine were on the farm; those feed sacks were often also amusing. In the earlier comment, I meant to say Mine (and my sister’s) were blouses. Thanks for the reminder.

after that and when we discovered plastics, the Bic disposable pen changed everything. Now we live with built in obsolescence.

He also talked tonight about getting past this (stim) then talking about mid range goals and later goals. He just looks really young (I know, they all do; but, he really does.)

Oh, nice link! Cute poem.
There are people who collect flour/feed sack clothes.

The Journal of Industrial Hemp has hit hard times. I’m on the Editorial Board. Please consider joining the International Hemp Association.

You know the part with the shadow on the wall is from your namesake?

They made a lot of things out of Bakelite back then. If you ever watch Antiques Roadshow, it is amazing how much those items are worth today.

But i do believe in making it an equal playing field (import taxes) so that the goods made in cheaper labor markets do end up being the same price as those produced here so as not to reward the practices of many corporations

sounds good to me.

… and happy birthday wobbly!

My granny made all my clothes during the depression – many feed sack dresses. Girls didn’t wear pants back then.

Just wanted to welcome you if you have not commented much before.

You might like the whole song by Hot Tuna cruisin for burgers

Again everyone is going to be protectionist to some extent in all this. The important thing is to look past the hypocrisy and just manage it.

Saw Jorma on TV awhile back. Finally starting to look his age. He and his wife operate a music camp in Ohio.

Fur Piece Ranch

so long a “managing it” means deflecting the calls for dangerous protectionism into something like what wobblybits suggested at 113. i don’t think the rest of the world is going to be willing to look beyond our hypocrisy – and if that’s correct we better not look past it either.

Hey, Raven – Never knew that was the song’s title. I’m old enough to recall the song. *g*

I was actually commenting on the flour sack part of the poem – but thanks for the song!

Don’t know why we have to worry about buying American – we don’t make anything. China makes our stuff and some from India. Don’t even make TVs any more.

NO, Crusin for Burgers is the album, with Papa John Creech.

Yes, but we need to keep in mind theirs as well. China’s $500 billion infrastructure improvement program is going to have about zero input from outside.

Oops, I stand corrected.

just da facts

i’m not suggesting we close our eyes to anything – only that we try to act in the most productive and helpful ways possible.

in any event, it’s not like china has been a great importer of usa goods (other than our debt). it’s quite different with the usa – we’ve been the world’s biggest consumers and that’s going away. every country that exports to us is going to feel it. if we substitute gov demand for the fall in consumer demand (as i hope we will attempt to do) and enact laws that explicitly enact “buy american” laws – what kind of an impact is that going to have?

Do you all really want to start a trade war with Europe?

How do we get out of this?

It seems to me that in this crisis Summers is largely right, but that Obama needs to hear competing voices and give them some weight too. Somewhere in there is Compromise.

For example, I suggested letting Buy American run 6 months and end it, somewhat like the idea of the crisis stimulus bill itself.

The same might be true of the current arrangement of players: perhaps a year from now, if we’re coming out of the recession, it might be better for Summers to move off the primary stage and onto Treasury or something else and let a more labor-friendly Economist take center stage for the next 3 years.

I don’t say this because I doubt Summers ability. Not at all. Some times call for a pass, some for a run and having the right players on the field is important.

Protectionism will be just one more millstone round your necks, which doesn’t help when you are faced with sink or swim. Sadly, you’re liable to drag the rest of us down with you.

You need to put a massive amount of money into your economy, and you need to do it fast. What you spend it on is a minor issue, so long as a decent proportion does get spent and does enter the economy. Obviously, giving tax cuts to the wealthy is not a good idea. Nor is starting a trade war. You need as much trade as you can get, you need friends and we need you. Sadly, Americans seem entirely unable to rise above very narrow factional interests to see the big picture, regardless where they are on the political spectrum.

I don’t like Larry because he seems committed to doing just enough to get us into a depression. Obama is a fool to listen to him.

Dammit, it seems like every DAY I come in here and find out ANOTHER stupid thing Obama’s done.

Okay, okay with the “he’s only been President for 10 days,” but man, he’s made a shitload of bad choices in that time [and pulled on board a bunch of really questionable people]!

But i do believe in making it an equal playing field (import taxes) so that the goods made in cheaper labor markets do end up being the same price as those produced here […]

Would your plan include that countries who have higher labour costs than the US (countries with universal health care, public pension systems, and strong unions like the EU members) would get tax brakes to make them competitive with the (relative to other first world countries) cheap US labour costs?