Rahm is a proven traitor who decided serving in the israeli military and fighting largely unarmed palistinians, but was to much a coward to fight for the US military when they needed experienced soldiers. Now he is a bagman for Israels right wing scumbags! Why exactly does he have a job?

I grow more depressed by the day! For some reason I thought things were going to change, but I was quite alarmed when the first person Obama selected was Emmanuel. Rightly so, it now appears. We’re going to get absolutely nothing helpful out of this “stimulus”, other than something that the Republicans will be able to gloat about! Republicans 1 Washington Generals 0 That’s Change We Can Believe In! Harry Carey Voice “Dems Lose! Dems Lose! Dems Lose!”

America gets screwed because of bad messaging. We are no longer a real country. We are a group of idiots led by clowns.

Great analysis Jane. It makes perfect sense. Obama got wrong-footed, something that hasn’t happened many times in the past 18 months. Let’s hope it’s not fatal. It was stupid in retrospect to talk about ‘process’ instead of substance. I think he believed that his popularity would make it impossible for the Thugs to effectively obstruct the bill, and that by throwing them a few bones, he could put it through. He underestimated the strength of the MSM, and their hatred for anything that smacks of redistribution of opportunity from the rich to the not-so-rich.

I suppose it’s good to get the class warfare stuff out on the table where it belongs. Our nation is just coming to grips with slavery. It has a long way to go before it recognizes the way the rich have systematically looted the poor.

This isn’t going to be another of those circular firing squads, is it?! No more. Please.

80 Senate votes? There is a better chance of me succeeding Obama then there ever was of a stimulus bill getting 80 votes in the Senate. Ain’t gonna happen. There are more than 20 dead enders in the Senate who would never vote for anything Obama wants.

McShames new ammendment scuttles the whole bill and replaces with $420 billion bill reducing business taxes because that is why we have problems.

NPR interviewed some Rethug from Mississippi this morning (I don’t remember his name) and he kept insisting that tax cuts = job creation. It was jaw dropping.

I have to say though, you have created a quandary for me Jane… Pelosi’s “leadership” has been an enormous disappointment, but now I have to pick between Pelosi and Rahm in a pie fight? Ick. Just, ick.

We are no longer a real country. We are a group of idiots led by clowns.

Nice description.

Obama could still pull this out if he actually explained what the stakes were, what he is doing, and why what the Republicans would make things worse.

In other words, the country is on the edge of depression. We need to get people back to work no matter what no matter how. That it is failed Republican policies that precipitated this disaster. That what the Republicans and some conservative Democrats want would pitch headlong into depression.

Now the dilemma for Obama is that if he did this. He would have to stop treating this as business as usual and treat it as a real crisis. This would mean redoing the stimulus and nationalizing the banks. Neither he, his advisers, nor much of the Establishment he represents are ready to do this.

So Obama is likely to find out, as George Bush did after the 2004 election, just how fast all that political capital he thought he had can disappear.

I’m sorry, I really am. It just seems as so many people are devoting their total efforts to ensuring that this entire Country suffers, just for the sake of their politics. They care nothing for their constituency, only about counting political coup.

Why can’t they simply say we won, screw you Boehner, Mitch and Rush, no tax cuts, all stimulus, and pass the darned thing?

My biggest fear is that the desire to pass “anything” as a PR salvage is going to mean that we’ll spend a lot of money on something that doesn’t work, then “liberal spendthrifts” will get the blame and the opportunity to head off economic disaster with sound policy will be gone.

I agree that we are careering into a new Great Depression. It is truly scary. The January job figures will be out in a couple of weeks, and if as one expects, they show another 4 percent drop in GDP or worse, it is going to be devastating. It will reinforce people’s expectations that things will get a lot worse. That means they spend less. At the same time, the liquidity trap that keeps banks from lending and businesses from borrowing is operating in full force. The last time we saw this conjunction was 1930.

passing the buck? throwing your own party under the bus? knuckling under to the minority GOP?

that’s not “change we can believe in”. that’s “business as usual”. and i am “not surprised”.

To be fair Obama’s stimulus wasn’t going to work. In this, we need to keep in mind 3 positions.

1 What the Republicans want which is madness.

2 What Obama wants which is too little.

3 What is needed.

Rumsfeld thought he could fight a war on the cheap and now we have McShame & the rethugs thinking we can fix the economy on the cheap.

That one failed from what I heard.

Let’s see whether the playing field changes after the January jobs report out tomorrow. That’s the only hope I have left. Otherwise, it’s a total disaster, and indicative of Obama’s incompetence, whether arising out of hubris or whatever.

I think the first January job figures should be out tomorrow.

My biggest fear is that the desire to pass “anything” as a PR salvage is going to mean that we’ll spend a lot of money on something that doesn’t work, then “liberal spendthrifts” will get the blame and the opportunity to head off economic disaster with sound policy will be gone.

could not agree more.

just would add to the “then” – then “entitlement reform” etc will be brought out as the “solution”

Perfect! And now, what should the rest of us be doing?

Boy, I am going to owe you a whole barful of drinks at this rate.

C-span 2 – It is being debated right now.

There is a great post on Oxdown by Jason Rosenbaum which discusses why we need to just fight for this bill anyway.

There is a great post by DDay, to which I link in the comments here, which is a great analysis from a political and historical standpoint of how we got to the false balance of doing nothing and not doing enough, which is, unfortunately doing nothing, which is what the GOP wants anyway.

Do you think we are the Damned if We Do, Damned If We Don’t generation?

Absolutely true. Obama’s plan was headed to almost certain failure, it was too little, too late. But when does it become just too late? Isn’t time of the essence in this matter? I was under the impression we needed a Trillion Dollar plus stimulus now, the States and Cities certainly do.

What do you feel is needed?

I heard that it does not have the votes and will be defeated.

CR has this (from dol) today: Unemployment Claims Highest Since 1982

Perfect! And now, what should the rest of us be doing?

What we have been doing. Telling Obama what is needed. The difference between Obama and the Republicans is about how fast we go into depression. Republicans: essentially now. Democrats: in 18 months.

Hold up, war is war no matter where it is, not that this has anything to do with military service.

OTH, i wish we could have thrown Pelosi under the bus along time ago, like when she would not impeach the worst president EVAA!!!!

Would some humor help?

Gawd I hope so but listening to these rethugs is jaw dropping.

I’d also like to make the point that the cartoon character Pelosi is not conform to reality. As she hails from San Francisco, and is a woman on top of that, she bears the brunt of most of the right-wing e-mail forwards out there.

It’s pretty sleazy, but I think that’s the point of this post, but it’s par for the course for Emanuel. Every administrator needs a hatchet guy and Emanuel is Obama’s hatchet guy. It doesn’t make it right, but it’s the way of the world.

I am so sick of this mess. If Obama stood up for this bill before the R’s started their PR blitz, we may have had a chance of getting what the country needs. Now he’s playing from a defensive position and blaming Pelosi’s house bill reinforces everything the R’s have been cramming down our throats. Man, this is weak.

Stabenow was on Bill Press this morning saying which ones would pass, such as Mikulski’s car amendment and the Baucus-Isakson one (see Oxdown for that one), and that McCain’s one would not pass. She actually also said that McCain is probably the biggest obstructionist behind the scenes as well.

McSoreLoser? Obstruct from behind the scenes? Color me Shocked!
FunnyDiva

We need to send our Dems over to visit Tom Delay so they can get some coaching on how this game is played to win.

“then” is now:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..80412.aspx

OT
More change we can’t believe in.

Anyone else have an overwhelming sense of having fallen down the rabbit hole?

Faxing and emailing is not going to cut it. The only thing that will get results is mass demonstrations in the streets of our major cities. The problem is that our so called representatives don’t fear us. They think that we are fat, lazy, and stupid- that we can’t be pried off of our couches and therefore are suitably pliant. We must disabuse them of this notion. They saw nearly two million of us happy on the mall a couple of weeks ago. What do you think would happen if they saw that crowd angry? It’s happening in Europe and it needs to happen here. The Government of Iceland has fallen for cripes sakes and all we talk about is more flaming emails. The message must be sent loud and clear and in person. I’ve lost family … I already have “skin in the game”. I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.

Exactly, i dont know how Obama let the few republicans that are left in congress after most of them got their butts kicked in the election effect policy as much as they are doing. Makes me wonder why the dems could never do that in the early and mid years of the bush administration.

Beltway politics is way above my paygrade, but this theory seems to depend a lot on how you juxtapose Gibbs’ response to Tapper and Cooper’s statement and walkback. One theory is that Cooper’s story was mostly correct, and Gibbs didn’t deny it. Another theory is that Cooper was misrepresenting what happened to pump himself up, and was quietly told to recant if he wanted any more meetings. Gibbs was just too inexperienced to know who to keep himself out the way.

The reality underlying this is that the Committees and their staff had to write the bill; they’re the only ones who know how money is actually spent by government. The Obama team was probably sitting there, saying, the Governors want x and y, how do we do that, and the Committee staff said, you funnel this through program A in Agency Z. That’s how it’s done, and frankly they did a decent job. Most the weaknesses came from the WH and the job of selling this thing was botched early on, because they were still pretending that the Republicans act is good faith; they don’t.

It’s the right wing’s objective to drive a wedge between liberal Dems and the WH, and they’re doing a good job. Why anyone in the WH would think this is useful to them is a mystery, but as I say, this is above my pay grade.

Obama is discovering that he’s the only person in DC who cares about the tone of partisanship, and it doesn’t win you legislative victories. It may be an expensive lesson, but . . .

In this country we dont all band together to blame the government. In this country the republicans band together to blame minorities.

Never fear. Obama is taking the long view. /s

Now that Rahm has outed himself as a Republican/Blue Dog, can we throw him under the bus instead?

Srsly, he’s not doing Obama any favors by this kind of activity, and he’s not helping the party he claims to belong to. (Netiher are the rest of the Blue Dogs, and I’d like them to leave Congress (preferably tomorrow) so we can get real Democrats in office instead of GOoPers-in-disguise.

I think Obama needs to treat this as an existential crisis, not just an important problem but one which still falls into the normal course of things.

We need a stimulus that is spending oriented to create jobs, that gives aid to states and cities, and that has some signature pieces like nationwide broadband, fixing the nation’s highways and water systems, building real levees for New Orleans, building X number of megawatts in solar and wind, projects in other words that people can get a hook into. And if it takes doing away with the filibuster to do this, so be it.

We also need to nationalize the damn banks. I am becoming a broken record on this but we need a real thoroughgoing reorganization of the whole banking structure to help homeowners, get credit moving, find out how insolvent the banks are so the system can be recapitalized, and break them up so that none are too big to fail.

I would also do financial reforms. Re-impose Glass-Steagall, the uptick rule, nullify and outlaw naked CDSs, make equity backed CDSs subject to regulation as insurance, keep CDOs simple and disallow their restructuring, nationalize the ratings agencies, and nationalize the Fed.

I had an oxdown diary a while ago called a Christmas list for what I thought was necessary which had some other ideas but I don’t have a link to it.

This is my concern, too, CS. We are/I am indeed fat and lazy. The difficulty, as you know, is getting people off their duffs and into action. It’s cold in MN. It’s raining in CA. It’s too early. It’s too late. It’s inconvenient. Parking is difficult. Blah, blah, blah. How now?

I agree this is an existential moment. Not just for the economy and the financial system but for the Administration’s hopes to be effective.

WOW, I guess we haven’t suffered enough, eh? By the time we can all agree that we have, indeed. suffered enough we will be passing one another on the side of the road with our belongings tied to a stick. This is what they count on and why we will all get screwed.

thanks – i think :(

well, i guess mccaskill told us we would have to deal with “entitlement reforms” so we was warned.

but still…. it is beyond frustrating.

btw, JasonRosenbaum says we should be fighting for the stimulus bill (Progressives: Stop Whining About The Recovery Plan and Actually Fight):

The real argument why this bill should pass is the political one I’ve laid out above. If this doesn’t pass, we can expect to get nothing in the future from Obama. If it does things are still up in the air, but at least we’ve got a chance. It’s a crashing the gate argument – we’re more likely to get what we want if this passes.

Can we please have stronger messaging to the Rethugs.

Tax cuts equal Hoovervilles. We have been there and done this folks. The tax cuts thing during a BAD economy makes the BAD economy worse. (I know I am preaching to the choir here, but ‘out there’ we need to scream this and make calls to support the stimulus bill. Also ask for more infrastructure spending when you call.)

Tax cuts equal Hoovervilles. Tax cuts equal Hoovervilles. Tax cuts equal Hoovervilles. Tax cuts equal Hoovervilles. Rinse. Repeat.

TC’s = No jobs & security threat.

bookmarked: A Christmas list to fix the financial meltdown

It’s what I am referring to here.

Also check out my comment over there about DDay’s post. I would like your (well respected) thoughts on that

I have to say that I think reports of Obama’s “failure” here have been grossly exaggerated. The bill has passed the House. It’s getting tweaked in the Senate, where Obama used to be a member. McConnell thinks he can kill it, but he can only do so if the Dems let him. Can you imagine the spectacle if Harry Reid actually made them get up there and filibuster, with the President himself sitting in the galley?

Once again TPM cuts through the noise and get’s to the heart of the matter.

The link for other things to do in the oxdown diary I referred to:

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/2395

Robert Borosage said that Republicans are contacting Congress critters 100-1 vs. Dems. So we’re not even really doing that. Just talking about it. I am assuming folks here are walking their talk. But our numbers are comparatively few. The smarter among us (and there are plenty of those) might consider posting talking points on a regular basis. Are we lazy? Yes, some of us are. But besides that, having trouble getting to the essence of what needs to be said. And getting people truly exercised about the stimulus et al? Click the garage door shut behind you and take to your couches, America. Wring hands. Shake heads. Eat chips. Repeat.

Thanks, not as fast with the google as you guys. *g*

More and more I get the feeling that Stirling Newberry may be right. I hope not, but then hope is not a plan, is it?

You are absolutely right. This could set the template for passing any legislation.

I hope he paid his freaking taxes.

“Congressional circuits are busy now…..” Looks like someone may be talking. Why do I bother? Hutchison and Cornyn really want to know what I think, don’chaknow?

You are all wrong! I mean look at how swimmingly things are going after 8 years of Bush tax cuts!

The plutocrats and oligarchs are implementing Operation Charles Stuart. Blame the black for the murder of Lady Liberty.

-G

I’m assuming you’re saying this tongue-in-cheek.

I think there’s a simpler explanation for his naivete and now, clearly, ineptitude. He has a history of yearning for consensus at the expense of his constituencies on the left, from the Harvard Law Review, the Illinois legislature and, lately, the Senate, where he seems to have succumbed to its warped notions of phony comity. His cabinet choices of plutocrat retreads sheds further light. I also think Obama thought this would be like the campaign and that Republicans would engage in self-immolation; I had hoped so. Unfortunately, the country may suffer for a decade, or permanently, as a result of him learning a lesson.

This post is great, by the way.

It’s a crashing the gate argument – we’re more likely to get what we want if this passes.

I see no evidence for this. And the point here is that we have neither the time nor the resources to keep dinking with this.

Jane,

This is really a moment for the Netroots to form policy. We need to draft a list of items and name the figure, infrastructure-dollars-wise, we want to see.

We need to hammer the phones folks. Jane, I asked yesterday if the netroots was going to do anything. I saw Ian’s post yesterday. We need to hammer this today like FISA. If we want a good stimulus bill, lets make our list (talking points) and make the calls.

This is a blame-shift moment.

I don’t really care what the Rethugs and the WH are doing in terms of blameshift. This is the perfect time for us to frame the bill. Now. With talking policy points and support for movement on a stimulus vote.

With FISA, almost every post was about it with the need to call and who to call. We. Can. Be. The. Change. Today.

Make our calls the 100-1 for. I think part of the Repug approach has been to get out word to call against it, to make Obama fail out of the gate.

1.2 million in the Mall folks. We can do this.

Will Americans remember the dinner Obama had to honor McCain? And will it connect that now, two weeks later, McCain is now working in an underhanded way WITH LEIBERMAN to undermine Obama?

Tax cuts…again?

I’d like your thoughts on this post by DDay which makes the supporting the bill argument from a political/historical argument in a better way than I ever could.

I love your list. I would make an important change. Your “Other” should be at the top of your list.

One way out would be to radically INCREASE the size of the military. Increase recruitment through bonuses (and the equipment to supply, arm and maintain them), send them off to Afghanistan, Iran, South Korea, the horn of Africa and the Southern Border and you’ll have the same economic stimulus that World War II did to the Depression. IT would certainly be economically more efficient.

I’m really doing it. Haven’t heard back yet from Issa, though. I’m expecting something any minute.

What’s so disappointing about all this is that the Republicans, the baboons, haven’t even been particularly cunning, merely aggressive and tenacious. Obama could have pivoted off the happy-talk and painted them as obstructionist partisans, he could have reminded the public, who remember McCain and his “earmark” tic, of how economically illiterate they are.

will do – but look for it later (this afternoon).

You missed my snark tag.

Don’t know why Obama is so deeply into bad stuff. Your explanation makes more sense than any. Doesn’t really matter why, anyhow. Obama has shown he won’t change.

That was the banner on CNN a bit ago. Circuits overloaded.

Note to White House Press Sec: How about interviewing families who have lost jobs due to the economy and have them state the need for the stimulus and post the add/framing of the need on YouTube.

Reframe the argument with the reality, not politics.

I’m hoping the WH and Congressional leaders took stock (counted votes) early this week and said, we need a stronger strategy and less coddling the Republicans. Since then we’ve had Obama on every channel, Obama in the WaPo op ed pages, Governors, Mayors coming to DC, etc — and Obama used his signing ceremony on SCHIP to blast the Republicans for getting us into this mess. The tone changed dramatically this week. If we actually get this stimulus bill, it may also come with the benefit of having learned how to do it.

The’ll need all these lessons and more if they want another bank bailout bill. good luck with that.

We can use faxing…And it was my understanding with FISA that faxing was better and made a great impact.

Knut: “It was stupid in retrospect to talk about ‘process’ instead of substance. I think he believed that his popularity would make it impossible for the Thugs to effectively obstruct the bill, and that by throwing them a few bones, he could put it through. He underestimated the strength of the MSM, and their hatred for anything that smacks of redistribution of opportunity from the rich to the not-so-rich.”

Yup, sure sounds like it to me. Popularity only goes so far if you back down before the unpopular bullies. nelson Muntz (on the Simpsons) may not be popular, but he has a way of getting as much lunch money he wants.

massacio: “We are no longer a real country. We are a group of idiots led by clowns.”

i don’t know if we’re all idiots: we did, after all, collectively say no to McCain and the past 8 years. Unfortunately, the clowns in DC don’t seem to have grasped this yet, and so it’s all about circus stunts to them.

I associate myself with your remark.

Rather than define the bill by its substance and make its opponents attack jobs creation, the strategy was to talk about process — how everyone’s ideas on both sides of the aisle would be welcome and that this bill would represent the best bipartisan thinking about how to face the current economic crisis.

Jane, what can we do to get you on the “talk shows” to repeat this? I’ve been screaming this, plus what Diane said

I am so sick of this mess. If Obama stood up for this bill before the R’s started their PR blitz, we may have had a chance of getting what the country needs. Now he’s playing from a defensive position, and blaming Pelosi’s house bill reinforces everything the R’s have been cramming down our throats. Man, this is weak.

since before the inauguration.

Whatever longing the country “may” have for the kumbaya, “no more Washington gridlock” meme that was initially floated as the justification for this crap, the country is a LOT more interested in having JOBS. They’d welcome Obama et al. using bazookas on the Repubs if that’s what it takes to right the economy.

On the positive front, Obama has inspired a new logo and ad campaign from Pepsi. Which is only appropriate, as the Demcrats are the Pepsi of our two-party system.

The Rethugs are acting so typical to the disfunctional personality. Divide and conquer through blame and victimization.

Call it out for what it is folks. I do not care what Repugs are stating about Pelosi or Emanuel. If they “care” so much about the citizens of this nation, what the hell are they doing wasting time talking to reporters and whining? Why are they not locked away getting this bill in an order that the state governors from each party are stating is needed to save the country? Why? Because they are willing to gamble lives for politics. Call. This. What. It. Is.

Why you call Repugs to support the stimulus, ask them to focus on the bill and stop whining.

in one respect i do agree with obama – this isn’t about politics as we might normally think of it, the kind of our team vs their team partisanship he rails against. the problem i have that i disagree about the solution. the solution isn’t bipartisanship because both parties, indeed for the most part our entire elite have failed. what that means is that just because they have consensus (and they don’t even have that), there is no reason to think that their consensus will lead to anything other than more failure.

instead of bipartisanship as the solution, imo we need to get beyond the “so long as i’ve got mine” mentality and try to think of the what is really needed. not just for me, not just for my circle, not just for my donors, not just for my state, my party or even my country. this is not the time for partisan political calculation, but neither is it the time for faux unity.

we need to take a bigger and longer view and think and act as though everyone matters – even future generations. and i just don’t see many of our political leaders willing to do that.

It worked for Hitler!

-G

Jane,

You can be part of putting Obama back on the offense.

The Rethug disfunction hopes to also get the progressives quite vocal against Obama which will be interpreted as “against a stimulus”. We cannot afford to go there.

Jane, use the netroots to play against this manipulation. Work to support the stimulus. It is not too late to change the framing on this.

Instead of calling Obama as playing from the defensive, how about pointing out the dysfunction of the Repugs?

Obama has shown he won’t change.

I wouldn’t go that far. His political style and methods were successful until recently. He’s still young, brilliant, and decent.

There was a lot of potential for how to define “Change” and I thought, hoped Obama was letting events make the necessity of a massive jobs bill apparent so that when he actually took the reins a “consensus” would be readily apparent. He underestimated the malice of Republicans. I feel pretty embarrassed by how they’ve worked him over, surrounded as I am with the evidence of what, at the moment, seems to be his ineffectual “celebrity”.

we need to take a bigger and longer view and think and act as though everyone matters – even future generations. and i just don’t see many of our political leaders willing to do that.

Well written and important framing for creating policy. This is where the focus needs to be. The White House needs to walk away from “blame” and focus on constructive policy.

If Obama will “change” it’ll be too late to do any good.

From Ian yesterday:

So, please, hit the phones and let your Senators know that you expect the bill to pass with no further watering down or gifts for the rich. The Congressional Switchboard operator is at 1-866-544-7573. Remember, be polite, but let them know where you stand.

(List of Senators who need particular attention, below the fold):

Snowe (R-ME)
Collins (R-ME)
Bayh (D-IN)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
Bond (R-MO)
Feingold (D-WI)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)
Specter (R-PA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Grassley (R-IA)

The White House needs to walk away from “blame” and focus on constructive policy

That’s much of Obama’s problem. He didn’t want to assign blame where it belongs, Republicanism. He didn’t want to hold up this freak-show party for marginalization. Now they’re back doing what they do so well: obstructing and muddying the issues.

I think you’re right.

Why waste the money transporting them all over the world? Why not just quarter them in our houses here in the Homeland?

Are you seriously trying to claim that we haven’t done this?

I mean, seriously?

Say goodbye to the Employee Free Choice Act.

The “pork” in this bill is largely Republican, starting with tax cuts from a government desperately short of money. It doesn’t include some essential items, and allocates too little for others. But it’s a place to start, so long as it is not sold as a panacea or a final fix for chronic problems that have gestated for decades.

Why is it that Republicans know exactly which hot buttons will start the Dems acting as if they are all vying for the leads in Lord of the Flies, but Dems haven’t a clue about how to crack the Republicans’ firewall. One’s tempted to think we need an entirely new Democratic leadership.

By Obama continuing to address the stimulus and constructive policy, the Repugs end up looking petty and live up to the obstructionists they are. THAT will not be lost on the 78%.

We really do not have time here to continue the argument about what Obama did or didn’t do. The Rethugs have gotten there message out on a grassroots to oppose this bill and make calls. We needed to move on supporting this bill in the netroots days ago. WE have not done anything on this bill like we did for FISA. It. Needs. To. Happen.

In the end, we end up obstructionists by sitting on our arses, complaining about the obstructionists. Ignore them. Work for the bill’s passage. It’s. That. Important.

“This bill” is not going to pass. It is being re-written as we speak by Susan Collins and a gang of 20 bi-partisan senators charged with the responsibility for “scrubbing” it of all “pork and frivolity.” In other words anything that doesn’t comport with the needs and interests of Republicans, the rich and corporations.

Some of the spending in the bill will remain to be sure. But much necessary spending will not or will be severely reduced (such as, for example, support for State and local governments).

So exactly what is it that we are supposed to call, fax, and email our senators to “support?”

Compared to the the effort on FISA, I have not seen a netroots push to the same level.

On FISA, it got to the point, each post was an update on what we needed to do as a grassroots.

I have seen lots of informative economic post. Only a few have been “action” based.

Hey, give me a break. I’ve done as much as Obama: I wrote a letter to the editor of the Washington Post.

Hey,

It’s a start.

Work for the bill’s passage. It’s. That. Important.Better. Than. Nothing!

Fixed. Sorry, but that’s my POV. I do believe we need a stimulus, but I just hope this is a good start on what we really need, and it will provide at least some jobs. But I wanted more, and I hope they can start the process of doing the greening that will be necessary to break the cycle of global warming that we’ve been working toward. Plus, the lists I’ve seen seem to be geared toward a lot of help for the beltway and the east; not much for other areas. I’m hoping that I’ve only seen selective parts and the actual bill is more widely spread.

That is perhaps, as ChePasa says above, there is no bill to “support.” Susan Collins and the Gang of 20 are in charge of re-writing it right now, and Obama has given his blessing to this process.

I’m sure there are many who think that anything is better than nothing and will blindly support anything that comes out of this process. Since Snowe and others have committed to scrub anything that doesn’t “create jobs” from the bill (meaning presumably the most effective stimulus — unemployment, food stamps, aid to states), I can’t honestly say whether I’ll be in favor of it when all is said and done.

Excellent post

Jim Cooper a cutout? Jane, you’re getting a little over the edge here.

Cooper is a self-important snook. Anything he says should be taken with a huge grain of salt. He voted against the bill to demonstrate his “Blue Dog credentials” as a fiscal hawk.

Despite what you rapidly-migrating-to-insiders might think, Rahm is not the master of the universe. And what Republicans say to reporters should not be taken as truth.

If anyone is being thrown under the bus, it’s Obey, who tried to get Republicans to negotiate during the markup. They negotiated; then they grandstanded.

Jane,

You are so unbelievably articulate and effective. I honestly believe that you can lead the medium of the netroots through a very large connected effort to push a list of policy points and get more effective stimulus bill, despite the Gang of 20 rewrite.

There is the possible room for the netroots to be the stimulus “rewrite” gang.

The “process” is not done. Yet.

If that was true then Robert Gibbs should have said so. He didn’t. That reverberated loudly.

I forgot this myself, so the bill that came to the floor had

$72 million for unemployment benefits, food stamps, and all the rest of it
and $79 billion for the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund

If Nelson and Snowe say they want to cut $200 billion, cutting all of these leaves only $49 million in pork to cut and none of the liberal Democrats will vote for it so the bill will be no better off.

$72 billion
Sorry

And $49 billion

We’ve been doing that since day one:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/01…..-the-poor/

We, and the entire netroots, have been leading the charge that the most effective stimulus is food stamps, unemployment insurance and aid to states. There have been zillions of posts.

I’m flattered by your faith in us, but I’m afraid the facts don’t bear that out. How many times have you seen the effectiveness of these measures picked up by the media? How many Democrats have publicly echoed that? How many times have you heard this position articulated by people who get listened to, and make its way into traditional media?

In short — what do you think we can do to defend progressive stimulus when Obama himself won’t do it?

I’m not upset with pups. Far from it. The stench of self-interest is just too overwhelming coming from DC right now. I’m disappointed, but only too aware that none of us knows the whole story of what’s going on in the back room dealings.

What does it take to convince all these royal flushes that their country desperately needs them to care about where we are heading and why. We don’t have time for their strutting and and preening. Besides, it’s disgusting to see them at it in full public view while the nation is smoldering from neglect.

There oughtta be a law. Oh, wait.

honestly, i can’t bear to watch this shit anymore. what a pathetic bunch of selfish assholes.

ya know, here in Philly we’re trying to save 11 of our public libraries, which thanks to the MotU’s mishandlign of the city’s pension fund, may well be closed permanently. And what we found out during one meeting was ghastly: that historically, mayors and councilmembers prefer to engage in turf wars driven by personal animosity rather than accomplishign the people’s business. And so when John Street was Mayor, Michael Nutter’s district suffered because the two men hate each other. Now that Nutter is the mayor, Street’s colleagues get the shaft. not that this hurts either official: it’s the people who have to live in the district that suffer.

i am seeing the exact same pattern playing out in DC. The GOP is determined to stick it to the Democrats who are trying (ineffectively, because they’re Democrats) to stick it to the GOP. However, neither party will be the loser: instead, it will be ordinary people, who have to live here, who lose.

fuck these fucking assholes.

Some good news to report – Daily Kos says all the Republican amendments to the bill were defeated.

The important part:

[quote]Most importantly, there appears to be a comfortable 60+ vote consensus (including, for various amendments, Specter, Snowe, Collins, and/or Voinovich) for the core of the stimulus bill, poorly written WaPo stories to the contrary[/quote]

doesn’t make any sense to me to be whipping for the bill before we even know what will be in it. other’s mileage may vary of course.

one thing i do like though is calling for something i want to see in the bill. in addition to the unemployment provisions, food stamps, etc – progressive states network sent out a mailing a few days ago: Economic Recovery Plan will Cover Less Than Half of Projected State Deficits

this just seems like such a no brainer to me. anyone want to join me in making calls to double the $$$ to states?

that doesn’t mean the dem supported amendments are any good. for example, there is the $15K tax rebate for buying a home – aka the House Flipping Subsidy.

oh, and this one? passed by a voice vote. fucking cowards.

Sen. Vichyvich? REALLY?! Assign nannies immediately to steer him clear of all temptation. He never met a budget he didn’t try to disembowel. And other than “saving” money (for ???!?), he never appeared to take a stand he couldn’t change at the drop of a hat if the right person whispered in his little pink ear.

Thank you selise. You’re really on your game today, as usual *g*. Just remember to exhale every so often. We are sorely beholden to you for your tireless work and laser insight. ;->

“But with public opinion quickly turning against the bill. . .”

Huh? In what universe?

Many of us are upset at the way in which the Obama White House and Congressional Democrats are handling the bailout bill, but that doesn’t mean we have to take GOP talking points and spread them around. The stimulus bill is still popular.

right

The level of “make the calls” with a tick list of who and talking points has not been there. The information and the points have been there, but not the “go get them folks here’s what we need to do”.

There have been a great number of posts. No argument on that.

I have not read any StrangeBedfelloews posts on the stimulus bill. I may have missed a post on it when my daughter was sick last week.

Jane, you, FDL, are making “cracks” in the MSM and at the White House. I pointed it out yesterday when citing Obama’s interview with Brian Williams. Obama quoted from scarcrow’s post here on the Repugs “wasteful spending list” being only 1.5 to 2% of the bill, making the point, Repugs, the bill can be a done deal.

I have stated above. More posts on talking points for calls and “make the calls” push (Christy is great at these kind of posts). With “update notes” posts on who needs a kick more than others. Additionally, more posts on what other countries have past in the last few weeks on their infrastructure spending.

Jane, I am willing to work on this.

And… you should be flattered!

I did what I could , I sent out letters to the editor to several local and national newspapers as suggested by Move On.org

Thanks selise.

Spot on as usually.

Awesome work.

By the way, the uptake of trolls lately has been evidence that there is power in the posts here.

Jane, you, FDL, are making “cracks” in the MSM and at the White House. I pointed it out yesterday when citing Obama’s interview with Brian Williams. Obama quoted from scarcrow’s post here on the Repugs “wasteful spending list” being only 1.5 to 2% of the bill, making the point, Repugs, the bill can be a done deal.

Along these lines, did everyone hear the shout out from David Shuster this morning? Credited Jane Hamsher of FDL…was good to hear on TV.

Going through the links from this. There is a nice interactive map from Center for American Progress to find out what each state is likely to receive in the House bill.

http://www.americanprogress.or…..rview.html

CAP is pro-Obama IIRC.

…have past in the last few weeks on their infrastructure spending.

Should be: passed.

Need more coffee.

Hugh,

Great link.

re CAP – i think that is very true, in terms of both messaging and people. for example, john podesta, co-chair of the obama-biden transition team is also president of CAP.

re the map – i had some problems with that map, first it’s not per capita and second it includes things like the tax cuts. but with those caveats (which are clear from the diagram and legend), i like it too because it shows how much each state is expected to get for the state’s budget (without having to go through a multi-hundred page bill).

I appreciate Klynn, sincerely I do. And if the bill that finally goes before the Senate is more good than bad, we will mobilize to support it.

Great.

BTW, when are you going to invite Obama to play poker?

You play a mean hand!

NYT has more figures:

“Among the initiatives that could be cut are $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts, $14 million for cyber security research by the Homeland Security Department, $1 billion for the National Science Foundation, $400 million for research and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases, $850 million for Amtrak and $400 million for climate change research. But so far, none of the suggestions come close to being enough to shrink the package on the scale proposed.”

All of that is less than $3 billion.

And Snowe went to the White House with $100 billion worth of suggestions to be cut.

For the poster who said that all the Republican amendments were defeated, the homebuyer tax credit was Isakson and Lieberman.

Hugh,

We need a stimulus that is spending-oriented to create jobs

IMO, putting people to work is the elephant in the room. It should come now, not after it’s too late.

I saw a PBS program about China’s building the biggest dam in the world on the Yangtze River (The 3 Gorges Dam). It will produce 9 times as much electricity as our Hoover Dam (built in the Great Depression and put thousands to work).

And the total cost (per PBS) of China’s big dam?? $25 BILLION. That is 1/28 of the $700 billion TARP that vanished into a black hole and so far has produced nothing that I can discern.

So, if we built an electricity producing dam somewhere….say at the confluence of the Missouri River and the Mississippi River (where the huge floods occur) there would be much benefit produced in many areas. Yeah, being America it would probably cost 3 times the one in China; still only $75 Billion – a drop in the bucket compared to the Billions poured into the ever-hungry banksters greedy paws.

He would so clean me out.

I’ll grant you that it’s probably not as bad as many have made it out to be, but even Nate admits it has eroded. Obama is not in the Washington Post and on my TV selling the bill today for nothing.

Hey, this post just referenced by Shuster this a.m.!! woot!

Why do GOP senators want to say No to their own governors and mayors and all the folks back home. Just curious?

Oh, I should have known you pups were on it. the video is upstairs for anyone who missed it. Just trying to cross reference and all that.

And the policy worked for FDR…that was HIS way of getting out of the Depression…after all the other things didn’t work.

Why do GOP senators want to say No to their own governors and mayors and all the folks back home. Just curious?

Because they don’t give them as much money as banks.

Sorry, I don’t believe 95% of the skullduggery nonsense, & I’m a cynic. Obama & Emanuel are dependent upon Pelosi. They’re not going to throw her to the wolves the first time out of the gate. That’s not Obama’s style, anyway. It might be Rahm’s, but he’s worked closely with Pelosi, so it would be ultra-crappy to take swipes at her now. Besies, at least one local Nashville blogger says Jim Cooper is a famous liar, & his assertion seems fairly nonsensical. I think the major-player Democrats are working together to get this bill thru in the best form they can.

I’m just waiting to see what Joe Weasel Lieberman does.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

We are a group of idiots led by clowns.

I’ll go with the clowns any day.

Say, isn’t Rahm supposed to be a lion tamer? If I could collar him I’d tell him to spread the word that we’re gonna get this stimulus bill passed and claim victory.

Nancy, front and center!
Nancy: Yes?
Did you lard up that stimulus bill?
Nancy: Yes I did.
Well alright then, back to work.
Heh.