Of the twenty-seven Democrats who voted with the Republicans to oppose Obama’s stimulus bill, twenty-one were Blue Dogs:
But according to Democratic leadership sources, the number was almost much higher – and could have been high enough to hand the Republicans a monumental victory – had it not been for a letter from President Obama’s budget director Peter Orszag.
The letter addressed to House Appropriations Committee Chairman David promised to return to “pay-as-you-go budgeting,” and stressed that the stimulus was an “extraordinary response to an extraordinary process” and thus subject to different rules.
“It should not be seen as an opportunity to abandon the fiscal discipline that we owe each and every taxpayer in spending their money – and that is critical to keeping the United States strong in a global, interdependent economy,” the letter stated.
Orszag also emphasized that Obama’s support for paying for any temporary tax cuts in the stimulus that he would like to make permanent. The budget director said Obama would detail those offsets in his budget.
“Moving forward, we need to return to the fiscal responsibility and pay-as-you-go budgeting that we had in the 1990’s for all non-emergency measures,” Orszag continued. “The President and his economic team look forward to working with the Congress to develop budget enforcement rules that are based on the tools that helped create the surpluses of a decade ago.
A commitment to "paygo" right now is problematic for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it could doom any meaningful healthcare legislation. But the fact that Obama was forced to kneel to Blue Dog demands is as clear an example as I can think of about something we’ve been saying for a long time — the Blue Dogs now hold the power in the House to either join with Republicans or Democrats and control what legislation gets passed. If eight more Blue Dogs had crossed over and voted against the bill, it would have failed.
In the Chris Bowers/Nate Silver discussion about whether supporting the bank bailout bill was the progressive position or not, Chris brought up the fact that there was a distinction between the members of the conservative New Democrat Coalition and the Blue Dogs and how they voted. Kagro made a very interesting point in the comments:
[O]ne ideological difference between Blue Dogs and New Dems is that Blue Dogs more often appear to have a political interest in being seen as distinct fromDemocrats rather than being a distinct type of Democrat, as is the claim of New Dems.
New Dems and Progressives have a political interest (at least at this stage of the game) in allowing themselves to be closely associated with the Obama administration, and in being seen not to be obstructing it. Blue Dogs, however, are a different story. They will, in large part, benefit politically by distancing themselves, and being seen as only skeptical, cautious and hesitant participants in his plans.
In other words, it wasn’t so much that the bailout is a progressive thing as it was that not opposing Obama is politically beneficial to most progressives. It’s also an old (and not that good) habit of progressives — to allow their safe seats and sense of responsibility for sustaining the Democratic leadership (both legislative and executive) to be leveraged into votes that may not necessarily be in line with their principles. Or at least to subsume their ideological principles to their political ones.
You’ll recognize it as the "where else are they gonna go" syndrome. Or in this case, the "you’re not really going to make your new president and leadership risk XYZ, are you?" syndrome.
Howie has more on the Rahm Emanuel legacy of recruiting conservatives to run as Democrats. Republicans love the Heath Shuler enforcement-only immigration bill and if enough Blue Dogs join with Republicans to get it on to the floor, Congressional Quarterly notes that "it would set up a platform for political attacks in the November elections, highlighting the GOP view that Congress should get tough on the border before addressing guest-worker visas or illegal immigrants." In other words, as Howie says, it could "wind up jeopardizing the re-election prospects of several vulnerable colleagues."
Making the Blue Dogs pay a price for this kind of sabotage is why we formed Accountability Now and launched the Primary project, and we’ll be having some major announcements about this in the coming weeks. But is important to note that if left unchecked, the Blue Dogs could become a bigger obstacle than the Republicans to the change people voted for in November.
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Jim Cooper’s rectum is inviting my boot.
.
Double agents and saboteurs. How can we reduce their influence in the short term?
John Barrow voted yea. Obama must have extracted a promise from him when he supported him in the primary.
I have the impression that the Blue Dogs would be Republicans, if that party hadn’t gone insane, and they will vote like Republicans if they’re given any reason to do so. The ‘Ds’ after their names are just camouflage. That’s one of the reasons I don’t trust Emanuel (and I’m not happy with some of Obama’s other choices either).
Why Now there was all the war spending, the Bank Bailout with no Strings but jobs to get the economy going crosses some imaginary line?
Get the Blue Dogs to read Keynes and FDR this Chicago School bull is what got us into this mess.
The more they delay the worse it will get. Or do the Blue Dogs want more bank failures?
imo ..they’re holding democratic seats .. but they aren’t democrats .. and as soon as possible .. the electorate needs to say “off with their heads” ..
just like the republicans .. they have supported the policies and budgets which have brought us this mess . from irresponsible tax cuts during a time of war .. to the run up in the national debt to astronomical proportions ..
and .. just like the republicans .. they STILL think their ideas hold some merit and command a majority ..
in short .. they are delusional demogogues and need to be shown the door ..
jane – are you sure this isn’t typical blue dog kabuki (where the blue dogs are used as an excuse by the house leadership to do what they want to do)? i find it hard to believe that if emanuel had whipped for the votes, he would have gotten them. but, i’m operating off of what i saw during the 110th congress – is it different now?
that said, i think the solution is the same – primary their blue dog ass!
here’s what happened;
just as the right wing infultrated career positions at the highest level of government, they also infiltrated the democratic party
Don’t most of the Blue Dogs come from conservative districts? Can a progressive candidate beat these clowns? If we could get some positive short term stimulus benefits in those areas could we change the tone of the district?
OT – The IL Senate could vote this afternoon to convict Blago? Wow. He could be gone before the sun goes down. Gotta be a weird feeling.
We have to get past this kneejerk habit of evaluating people and policies by looking for the D or R after the name.
Yes, it is Rahm Emanuel’s fault and yes, it is Obama’s for seeking to govern from the right. But this just goes to show how out of touch our political elites are. The economy has fallen apart following right wing policies. Yet even now Republicans and a fair number of Democrats would support more such policies even though they would send us into depression. And even now Obama and his economc team can’t find it in themselves to really break with many of those policies. Tinker with them, tweak, nudge them but continue much of what Paulson and Bernanke have done.
I often write about the Age of Stupid. Well it is still here and the approaches that we are seeing to the economy underline why it is.
*sigh* … Hair today, Gone tomorrow …
Please let me display my ignorance in all its glory for you inside political baseball folks with my questions:
where can I find a definition of Blue Dog?
My guess is that it means Corporate controlled dem like Steny Hoyer.
Where can I find a list of Blue Dogs?
Do they self identify as Blue Dog?
I just need a Blue Dog 101 syllabus please. Thanks. I’ll go to links if you don’t want to do a datadump here.
Seconded.
My favorite is Governor Goodhair
Me third.
As somebody has said here many times, “Not all the fascists are in the Republican Party”.
Blue Dogs have no ideology other than getting re-elected in districts where they feel acting like Republicans will help them. If only they could be forced to trade in the “D” for an “R”, we’d actually have some truth in advertising for a change.
the point, if i understand the strategy correctly, is to take out one of them, even if it means loosing to an R, just to put some fear into the rest of them that they might be next.
Yes, he could. Tomorrow by the latest. The only thing that is left is the rebuttal by the House of Representatives prosecutor. The state Senate has gone for caucuses, i.e. lunch.
Blago didn’t stay. He flew down from Chicago on the state plane for this so he has to get back before they kick him out office.
Blue Dog Democrat
I’m remarkably ambivalent. Clearly he should be [edited by moderator to remove advocacy of violence] and rode out on a rail but given our history, it is highly likely all our future governors will also be shameless self-serving bastards.
I’m fantasizing about a new Reality TV show where the corporate elites have to live in Michigan on oh, $500 a week, called “Sweet Sixty”. No credit, no car, have to find a non office job.
this is ’snot good.
D’oh! the wiki. thanks SD.
These people aren’t going to change their ideology because one of them gets taken down. By definition they’re fiscally conservative and many are socially conservative as well. Whoever’s strategy is to teach them a lesson had best come up with something better cuz that ain’t gonna work, particularly if their district’s demographics don’t change.
Blago’s statement was all over the place. Saying there was no case, that he was not permitted to make his case, that it was a dangerous precedent, that what he did was business as usual, that the legislature was wasting its time. Half the time he was cajoling them, the other half he was asking for bygones to be bygones. It wasn’t about him although that is pretty much all he talked about.
lol!
Great starting point. A lot of wiki’s texts border on sux but the source links are pretty good, which often lead to better links.
The important thing to take from all of it is that his hairspray has such remarkable HOLD.
The solution to the Blue Dog problem is, at least in part, leadership. How is it that the R lemmings can be led off a cliff but dems aren’t being led toward decent–let alone good–legislation during the biggest economic crisis since the depression?
Not sure I understand and would appreciate help. It’s with the pay-as-you-go. I thought one of the things about “extraordinary times demand extraordinary action was that the stimulus would result in a shitload of deficit spending. But it is necessary. Is pay-as-you-go intended to reduce deficit spending? It was my belief that deficit spending was just part of the deal – again, not because it’s good or bad or anything – but because it’s necessary. how did pay as you go ever get into the equation? it seems like such a stupid objection (”this must be pay-as-you-go”) at odds with something fundamental to the stimulus bill. (Is my understanding of paygo wrong? i thought it requires every expenditure be married to some funding sourece and there are exceptions for defense and other stuff.)
Thanks, I like the wiki for summarizing big stuff and getting a general clue about some topics. Blue Dogs looks like a House thing. What are blue senators called? DINOs?
That is the point of contention. Both in 2006 and 2008, more liberal candidates probably could have been recruited and won against Republicans as a rejection of Bush. Instead people like Emanuel looked for candidates who were conservative and in various cases had been Republicans in the past.
I don’t know if a “progressive candidate” can win in these districts…but sure-as-shootin’ a POPULIST one could. By voting against this stimulus package there were lots of things that a populist can take aim at and argue that their Representative does “get it”. For many people in economically depressed areas it’s not merely the fact that a stimulus package should have job creation…it’s also how do they SURVIVE through that process.
Also they want to know why the Republican agenda of corporate tax breaks is actually going to help them…especially when these are the same tax breaks offered up by the Republicans and Blue-Dogs during the Bush Administration. They will want to know what guarantees are out there that the corporations will actually spend the money to create jobs, rather use it to buy up another company and actually reduce jobs. Or simply to give Executive bonuses for a great job lobbying Congress to reduce taxes. Throwing money at corporations did nothing when it was given to the banks. It had almost no effect on reducing foreclosures or helping strapped homeowners.
When it comes to business on the Hill, Dems and leadership are mutually exclusive concepts.
That plus his remarkable confidence that he’s been able to talk his way out of anything, and he’ll do it again. I know the first thing I think of when I learn someone is pissed off at me is how I am so much like gandhi. first thing.
Per BBC, a million French are protesting and striking today. That would be like 5 million here.
i don’t think so either. but isn’t their ideology “i want to be re-elected” …. ?
Here in Arizona, we have a Democrat who considers herself a Blue Dog. And yet, her seat was held for a large number of years by a Republican. This district is majority-Republican.
So, is she destined to be criticized by the Progressives for ‘disloyalty’ to the majority agenda?
As to my particular political inclination, I self-ascribe to being an “Aggressive” Moderate, and to my mind, I am quite distinct from Centrists, and yet,I am much closer to the view of the Progressive. And yet, growing up, segregation is greater today for Chicano kids than when MLK Jr. was alive. So, the ’solution’ is to posit greater educational opportunities that is inclusive and not exclusive. And to add a tad of snark, think of Affirmative Action for failure and in particular, William Kristol.
The Blue Dogs want, and have pretty much always wanted, pay-go, no deficit spending. I think what they wanted in the bill was an elimination of a number of programs, unspecified, to help pay for the stimulus. The administration’s argument is that there isn’t time to do all the studies required to make that elimination decision right now and that the admin will get to it after the stimulus bill passes. That’s my take on the politics of it. ymmv
He also compared himself to MLK. Yup, Gandhi, MLK, Blago… all martyrs for a larger cause. No, wait…
Um … Gandhi was shot ’cause people were angry with him.
… just saying, you might not want to give them any ideas …
Endlessly frustrating truth.
Only after they get elected the first time. Then the fiscal conservative part becomes a means to a goal.
i think that is what the D leadership is trying to avoid. the long term plan for the party appears to be to not allow any daylight to show between the Rs and the Ds with the Ds running just a shade to the left of the Rs as the Rs go over the cliff. for all i know it may be great way to own the center and win elections… but it sucks as a way to govern
Gandhi. That’s the one that pissed me off. Blago isn’t man enough to sniff the wheels of a car that carried the Mahatma.
i don’t know then….
Since RayGuns it’s never been about governing. It’s been about winning elections and rewarding cronies and supporters at the expense of the American public.
It’s not disloyalty that is so objectionable. It’s a failure to vote in the interest of the people who gave them their gig in Washington, and to a lesser extent it’s that they make the Dem party so much less effective.
I think the House Republicans may have overplayed their hand on this one. What if a handful had actually crossed over and voted with the Democrats. That would have encouraged Obama to continue “reaching across the aisle” and make concessions. But if you don’t gain any support from all your efforts what rationale do you have for continuing to reach out? It’s not even beneficial on the superficial level.
I suspect that though Boehner is crowing about his demonstration of “party unity” right now…that is going to have some very serious repercussions in terms of Obama’s approach to them in the future. Watch the rhetoric change.
Oh, and I also think that the House Republicans really feel that they can pull this sort of thing off because the package will really be decided in the Senate. If the package fails it’ll be one the Senate Republican’s “heads”. At least that is what they think.
I laughed a lot at Blago’s statement to this effect, no point getting upset with those living in delusion …
The Repubs are now on record as opposing America’s interests … expect this to get a lot of play as the campaigning begins for 2010 Elections.
Indeed. Primaries are good, as Kirsten Gillibrand is going to find out.
As for the whole paygo fiscal-conservatism hoo-ha, that is unfortunately all too common and has been for just about ever. Even FDR was a fiscal conservative by instinct; the New Deal had him operating well out of his comfort zone, and when he pulled back on the New Deal in 1937 in order to lower the deficit, he undid almost all the good of the past four years. It took World War II to fix Roosevelt’s 1937 blunder in killing the New Deal.
Interesting, Kirsten Gillibrand a Blue Dog (& appointed to the House! lucky Blue Dog)! Bashed CK around? for sure she wouldn’t have been a Blue Dog!
Meanwhile the House Republicans are crawling off to a “Winter Retreat” in a ritzy resort in Hot Springs, Virginia to meet with lobbyists who are shelling out $25,000 each for the privilege of cavorting with these guys who are supposedly against “special interests”.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/20…..232645285/
Be nice if some of the people that are facing eviction, losing their jobs, having their benefits cut…and who would lose their SSI, Medicare or Unemployment under the Republican plans would be able to have such “access”.
Appointed to the Senate.
I bet they’d rather have the $25K.
per bbc online:
and ongoing in greece:
Oh I can’t sell you my political martyr Gandhi? May I interest you in my personal comparison to MLK? No? Here now, I’m sure I can find something to say that will make you back down off of being ticked off at me for something I did
for myselffor the greater social goodlike shaking down race track owners and holding up improvements on a children’s hospital. Mother Teresa?Really, I’m just so good looking and charming and everyone likes me and I’m ever so polite when I know people are listening in…
Coincidentally around the same time it became necessary to instruct purchasers of frozen pizzas to remove the plastic wrapper before baking. I consider that the moment at which Western Civilization entered freefall.
Let’s hope so because it isn’t getting a lot of play in the MSM today. What i’m hearing on my noise box is that Obama reached out and was ineffective in working with these a holes.
only if you think obama is going to be able handle the economic crisis. if he doesn’t and the economy continues to tank, the Rs will be perfectly positioned to challenge the Ds in 2 or 4 years.
707!
Pretty much a wildcat strike that got a lot of press. They’ll have better luck next time as economies get worse. Shock doctrine in reverse. The free market policies are being shown for what they are.
Yesterday, I saw McClintock blathering on the House floor, and I felt so very sad about Charlie Brown missing that seat by 1500 +/- votes. . .
LOL
A C-SPAN caller just criticized the “Rush Limbaugh dittoheads” who phone in. Yay!
I’m hearing a little sound bite/whine from the Republicans: This stimulus bill is bogus because it’s just loaded up with Democrats’ pet projects that they haven’t been able to get passed till now.
Instead of denying this, why can’t the Dems say something like:
Yes, I can see how Republicans would see it that way. There is a huge backlog of good government they’ve been blocking for years, and it’s true that we Democrats are eager to restore good government and all the benefits that flow from that. If you want to call good government our “pet”, well, Democrats will be happy to plead guilty on that.
Sheesh, this smells like a sales meeting for lobbyists and congresspeople are the sales people. Here are our policies we want you to sell. Let’s hope the market for these “products” has evaporated.
I don’t care if this is legal, it’s bad practice and I want all the names of all attendees. Transparency please. American public’s interest, please. I want it to hurt politically. It just looks bad, like Citigroup buying a fancy plane.
I like that idea, plus add to it, yeah, let’s talk about government waste…like Iraq!
Of the blue dogs who voted against the bill, the largest number were, by far, from the south.To paraphrase a saying of, I think, Tip O’Neill, “If you think they are mean, you ought to see their constituents.” There aren’t yet a whole lot of liberal/progressive districts in the south, yet. I’m cynical enough to believe that only close and extended personal acquaintance with the recession/depression, will make believers out of them.
sorta like cuttin’ the balls off the bill.
If the administration wants to do a pay-go now all they have to do is cut the livin’ shit out of defense spending. Missile defense (aka Star Wars)?
New high tech war toys? NucWeap R&D? Civilian contractors in the military?
if it’s the one i’m thinking of, right down the street is the original hotsprings site, and a cheaper hotel across from it..anyone can go there…and anyone can pay to use the pool at the ‘big’ resort….AND there’s only a few restaurants/bars there, walking across the street. you can bet they’ll be in the local places. is a small place, so, anyone could go and eavesdrop or ‘bump’ into someone. even the hotel is welcoming to anyone who wants to look around, is a historic place.
and that entire area is surrounded by the people you describe, is just over the west virginia border. the original hot springs is really cool, accessed by a ladder into the hot springs’/creek’s pools covered by a huge domed buildings that are open at the top with a walking deck around the inside..one dome for men one for women.bubbles. george washington got wet there when he was a surveyor, as he did in berkely springs’ spring… a caretaker there told me where to just go down the road and sit in the creek for free..ha.
my personal favorite is ‘open here’ on cardboard-boxed food. butter, mac-n-cheese, etc..or the pull tab on the carton, when all you have to do is open the flap. duh
LOL. I’ve heard the phrase “bill with balls” meaning to bill a client(a verb), but never as a noun.
one thing i don’t like about it though–the men’s pool is upstream from the women’s…
That’s ‘hold-harmless’ disclaimer text. I think it followed “Serving Suggestion”, as consumers sued for everything depicted. I could be wrong since the advice isn’t also in Braille. Believe it or not, a frozen product (some casserole thing) I had directs you to remove that plastic film for the microwave, but to leave it on for the conventional oven.
Call me persnickety, but can we say “government waste”? Why are these “fiscally conservative” representatives of the american people going on a boondoggle, esp. right after a winter recess?
I’m reeeeeeally tired of politicians feeling like they won a lottery vs. were hired to do a job.
The first stimulus will stabilize state and local governments. The Blue Dogs must sign onto that the next time they vote. The healthcare initiative will be the mother of all battles for the GOP so crafting how it is paid for will be much more divisive. See Ezra Klein’s bit on this at Bloggingheads.
just like in the wild wild west!
wow, indeed.
lol
I’d like to suggest a way to bring some of the pay-go blue dogs in on health care reform: position it as a way of saving Medicare.
Seriously, the Blue Dogs can be counted on to scream about unfunded long term liabilities at some point, and the insolvency of medicare by 2019 is something they could be engaged upon. Having health care reform that can be positioned as fixing Medicare (while simultaneously extending it or other health insurance to uninsured and driving inefficiencies out of the system) gives them a way to vote yea. They can tell their constituents that they are being fiscally responsible by voting for health care.
I’m all for replacing blue dogs with more progressive politicians. We should also try to find tactics to gain their votes.
In response to wmd1961
I have long advocated that Universal Health Care be “rolled-into” the VA’s medical and hospital systemic. For in doing so, everyone is ‘guaranteed’ the identical quantity and quality care. Consider this a tad of elgalitarianism.
My question to you, and others, is, “How would the Blue Dogs respond when Medicare becomes a defacto program since all available dollars are to be reprogrammed through the VA?”
Jaango
Let’s be fair to this “pay-go” idea. Maybe it can work–IF the Blue-bottle Semicrats or whatever we are supposed to call them will commit to paying for additional stimulus (or, rather, Ponzi-scheme reparations) by:
* raising the top income tax rate to, say 98%
* making the estate tax 100% after the individual exemption
* taxing capital gains as income except in the case of short-term speculative gains taxed 99.9%.
The above would be pay-go that I could live with.
I’ve always seen the “blue dogs” as a way to get Democrats elected in Republican leaning districts. Honestly I hope they continue to vote with the Republicans, because once their constituents realize they have no real choice between the incumbent blue dog and the Republican challenger, and both are failing them, maybe they will be more receptive to a true big D Democrat, or even a third party candidate.
As for the bill, I would have voted for it, but it does leave lot to be desired in its present incarnation. Not only are the tax cuts useless and the spending not enough, but I was expecting some more innovative ideas to create jobs.
Good idea.