Results… There’s an idea

Zed

Atrios’ logic looks wrong in that just because an implemented Plan X doesn’t work, that doesn’t mean an unimplemented Plan Y would have worked. They could both have been wrong ideas. As you say, Ian, results matter — but only positive results.

Like Atrios, I hope every Republican votes against it, just like every Republican did in the budget bill in 1993. Which is the thing that makes Gingrich’s attempts to claim the economic boom of the 90’s for the R Congress.

…so funny.

Except that Obama speaks honestly with the American people. He’s smart enough to keep everyone educated on the issues.

I’m thinking his time spent with the republicans this weekend and on Tuesday will be most interesting about who controls what.

Turn the economy around and no one will care how many Republicans voted for Obama’s bills. Fail to turn the economy around and, well, no one will care how many Republicans voted for Obama’s bills.

Spot on, Ian.

Obama charm offensive pays off. Not.

Sounds like 1-800-mark-pryor-get-your-shit-together.com/wake-up is in order

I think Obama really would have liked to have some Republicans on board but in any event, he can now at least say he TRIED to include them. The question in my mind is how does he intend to counter them? To date, the Republicans have proven to be much better at obstruction than the Dems are at passing legislation.

If Bush had won the Iraq war in 6 months, set up a compliant semi-democratic government in Iraq, driven oil back down to $20 and had a good economy, Republicans would have won in 08, no matter how many Democrats signed on to the Iraq war, tax cuts and other Bush policies.

And he could have. If he lets the UN nation building crew in after the fall of Baghdad, lets Jay Garner organize the Iraq elections in 90 days like Garner wanted, and turns some real effort to generating a soft landing for the economy…

McCain wins.

Well, he only needs what, 3 votes? I think he can get that.

Who could have predicted conservatives would shake hands with Obama and then kick him in the groin… besides anyone who has ever paid attention?

Don’t assume unanimity in the Dem ranks, they have a long record of being their own worst enemies.

Apparently Obama.

Except for FISA, The TARP Bailout, Looking forward not backward, Ambiguous on Torture vis a vis The Army Field Manual, Civil Unions, War On Drugs Continues.

IMHO, saying that Obama speaks honestly is extremely generous.

There will be the inevitable 3 or 4 D defectors, so he could wind up needing a few more, but it should still be doable.

I’ve read this five times now and I can’t figure out for the life of me how you and Atrios aren’t saying the same thing, i.e., all that matters is getting a bill that works. Water it down with stupid compromises in the name of “bipartisanship” and you have to wear it when it fails.

I hope Franken gets seated soon. It will help a little.

Any signs that Obama is considering giving up the compromise with the GOP on the stimulus now that it looks like the GOP will say no.

I forgot Israel. Obama has not assessed the Gaza conflict honestly.

Dean Baker’s noted that factory construction has already started to go up:

U.S. manufacturing will be the big winner [of the Obama stimulus plan]. It is striking that factory construction has been soaring over the last year. Also capital goods orders have held up remarkably well. I’ll bet on a resurgence of domestic manufacturing, although the firms and industries will be tough to guess.

He thinks no one will know who to blame. I think that people will know to blame Democrats.

And the demand for those factory goods will come from where?

Amen to this post. If the Dems allow themselves to be set up for failure by the GOP, it is the Dems who will pay the price, not the GOP. People blame those they perceive as being in charge.

IMHO, saying that Obama speaks honestly is extremely generous.

Fine-tune it a bit, maybe: he is remarkably honest for a 21st Century American politician, probably far more honest than we should expect. Having said that, he is the President of the Empire, and is going to act like it. The tools of power are the same, no matter who wields them.

Damn right!

Canada, Mexico and Central America. /s

Voters are paying attention now thanks to 9/11 and the economic meltdown.
Back when voters were fat and happy Atrios would have been right.

Unfortunately, Franken may be offset by Gillibrand. Gillibrand is known to tacked with the GOP fiscally.

Yes, but I’m guessing he has a plan for this kind of nonsense.

He won’t risk alienating them completely in the (vain) hope that they will support other parts of his agenda in the future. Good luck with that, the GOP knows it’s return to majority status hinges on making the Dems look like complete failures.

Actually, his appointment of a special ambassador who worked in Ireland gives me a lot of hope. The Irish model is that you talk with and negotiate with anything and that the only thing that you have to do to be allowed into negotiations is to be able to hold to a truce. Likewise, he has called for a lifting of the siege. I think, within the limits of what it is politically feasible to say about Israel/Palestine in the US, he is doing and saying what he can.

And as everyone knows, I’m no Obama apologist :)

That is bullshit. Both of those are lagging indicators. I told him that about capital goods orders today in book salon, but he was not moved.

Is it anything like his plan for the economy, or his plan for Afghanistan?

Yes. “Seize the high ground”. That way he can honestly say he tried, and mean it. And if the public sees him trying very hard to work together, and the Republicans spurning it, they will be far more supportive if he has to lay the smack on ‘em later.

I can tell you definitively that Americans are working in Panama. Ain’t work here…

Um, I’d guess that the Brits are a more reliable negotiating partner than the Israelis.

We both know that why doesn’t Obama know? Or is he setting up the GOP for failure by compromising so early on the stimulus he appears weak.
The GOP smells weakness they always up their demands. The GOP looks increasingly unreasonable the polling for the Obama Stimulus plan the real one gets higher.
Then Obama rejects the GOP plan and refuses to compromise as was his original plan and passes a Lefty plan.

Hell, I don’t know. I’m just saying that the rightfucktards will not get a free pass with Obama.

You underestimate the ability of the Rs to shove the blame on the victims. They’ve practiced it long enough to be perfect. They’re already saying they aren’t being included. And remember, by their definition, being included does not stop short of getting everything they want.

I’m not convinced he has a “smack” to lay on them if he wanted to.

Thanks Ian.
digg

Obamaco is changing the dialogue. They’re spent.

Obama is entirely centrist, he doesn’t have a lefty bone in his body, PLUS, he won’t get anything through the Senate without at least a few Republicans voting for it.

Anybody really think Obama is surprised that the Republicans are being predictably obstructive? This guy didn’t get to the WH being naive.

The Rethugs misunderestimate him–and misoverestimate themselves–at their peril.

He can just speak. When he does, people understand because he’s not lying. Even the righty folks trust him.

I don’t think he particularly expected it to pay off – at least not in the sense of getting these particular individuals onside.

Agreed !

I for one am going to enjoy watching what happens over the next 2-3 weeks.

It depends how bad the economy gets Obama might not have a choice. Or he can expect to share the blame with Bush for the economy.

So Obama pisses off his base and doesn’t win any points from the Rs. The point was?

Mexico and Central American Countries are becoming popular expat retirement destinations. Panama is cheaper and better in many ways than Costa Rica. Though expats receive their Social Security checks, they cannot access their Medicare benefits in Mexico or Central America.

his plan for Afghanistan

The plan for Afghanistan, no matter who is in charge, is the same. This country provides us with border access to Iran, Pakistan, and the former Soviet Central Asian states. With significant forces there, we have veto power over local events, and the ability for our intelligence networks to infiltrate the area. This is an incredibly strong strategic position, in a particularly volatile place, and we are not going to just resign that position without some powerful incentive. We are there for the long haul.

YMMV.

Inauguration was last week, the honeymoon is over. The wingnut media juggernaut will go to work undermining him. Self-described conservative (voters) will soon fall back in line.

Yeah, that worked out really well for the Soviets and the Brits.

They just needed us to show them how to do it right. /s

The Soviets and Brits didn’t have our Predator drones and Hellfire missiles winning hearts and minds..

The pukes are going for the hail mary pass and it might just be their demise. Their obstructionism will force Obi to tack away from their approach not toward it. He gives the olive branch at first and they hand him a smack down.

If he really wants to get us out of the whole THEY dug, repuke policies, then the new course becomes that much easier to set.

Paint them as obstructing the reconstruction of the economy. They caused the problem and they want more of the same to fix it. YUCK

I have no idea what the point was – but I can’t imagine that he expected to win that lot off in the course of a single dinner.

They also didn’t have your bottomless Well to bribe Warlords with.

Damn right. Some of those poppy fields ought to have a U.S. flag flying overhead, we’ve paid a fair price for ‘em.

… at both ends of the supply chain …

Yep, might as well cut out the middle men.

Also lots of GOPers knew about torture, lots of GOPers used inside information to bet on companies that got no bid war contracts like Kevlar helmets that don’t meet army standards, The armored humvees that were delivered months late, KBR and the electrocuted troops in the showers.
The Indiana National Guard getting sick from KBR chemicals.

http://bayh.senate.gov/news/pr…..F93225D9D9

We can take out some of the GOP leadership. We can attack the companies that pay the GOP.
Deals or threats can be made we do not need to beg.

Mayor Mike is claiming NYC will get $3.4 billion of the stimulus package.

Nah. It’s all part of the privatization thingy.

True. But Panama has fair health care programs for ex-pats. 25% discount on dental and medical. (Course nobody knows the price before the discounts!)

Just as strapped Americans are going to Tijuana for basic care, so too are they going to other parts of the world for optional treatments.

Whoops I forgot about that.

Wait see even without medicare retirees think its worth it to retire in an other country because its that cheap?

teddy upstairs

Sorry

Wait see even without medicare retirees think its worth it to retire in an other country because its that cheap?

should be

Wait even without medicare retirees think its worth it to retire in an other country because its that cheap?

Excerpted from Men’s Journal, re:Afghanistan:

Human Terrain Teams (HTT’s) are a small army of civilian social scientists and intel-savvy military officers who give brigade commanders an understanding of local dynamics. The teams map social structures identifying key village elders; select sites for roads projects or help to decide whether a new road might create a dispute between villages. It’s part of Petraeus’s smarter, management-style counterinsurgency.

These must be the guys that dispense the Viagra.

I know. I have a condo in Panama…but what Panama offers, I haven’t yet been able to take advantage of, is the Pensionado program. Check it out!

Agreed. Obama will blow them further from electable!

This is how foreign aid gets militarized.

Aha. I understand.

I don’t think the Republicans can win on this one. People elected Obama and more Dems to get things done. If the Republicans constipate that effort they lose because everyone see the economy going very rapidly down the tubes. And I suspect that the consequence of a Democrat in the caucus jumping off the raft will be that they will be eaten by the sharks.

And it will be very, very hard for some of those Republicans in a stare down fight. Do they really want to tell their constituencies that they are the ones holding up the stimulus package that’s going to help their state budgets? That is going to extend unemployment benefits? That is going to block the construction and infrastructure projects taht will help the construction industry?

Obama can simply point out that what the Republicans want to do is cut “payroll taxes” and tell the people precisely what THAT means…that “payroll taxes” are what pays for UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, that supports safety net of SOCIAL SECURITY for retirees whose 401K’s and IRA’s which have disappeared, that pays for the MEDICARE that the elderly receive. He needs to simply point out that you don’t bankrupt those programs at a time of expanding recession and give that money from them to the most wealthy in the country.

These are the programs that protected the destitute, the elderly and unemployed during the darkest days of the Depression. Apparently Republicans want to relive those “glory days” of laissez-faire greed by stripping away the very programs that assisted in getting America through those times.

Obama needs to lay what the Republicans are trying to do in the starkest terms and show why they are wrong…ethically and also economically. He needs to pulverize their arguments and to make them an irrelevant party from here on out.

It’s a good point you lead with. I wonder whether a “Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way!” campaign would carry any weight here.

Also a quick primer on the performance of the US economy under Repub administrations over the past 30-some years should show folks how jaw-droppingly badly those people understand how big money works, i.e. should prove that we should not now listen to their advice.

Now, now…
We don’t want to gt all ‘facty’ on them.
Imagine the graphs!

I know, I’m channelling Ross Perot.

Actions speak louder than words. Allen McDuffee criticizes William Kristol for suggesting otherwise, in Kristol’s LAST column in the NYTimes today. http://www.governmentalityblog…..t-one.html

My daughter went to Singapore to work on a cruise ship. Couldn’t find a job here. On the other hand, she does like to travel…