This revisionist history about FDR and the great depression is now a favorite gooper pastime. The record is pretty clear, FDR made some progress for a couple of years, and then reverted to trying to balance the budget way too soon which caused another slump in GDP and rise in unemployment. The HUGE deficit spending of the war years fixed the problem for good- although that’s not a preferred method.

We so much need a team of BS swatters. In economics, defense policy, the law.
The problem is when they make up shit, you have to research it and in the day or two intervening, the crap takes root.

Gooper reasoning goes like this:

“since we know a priori that only tax cuts can improve the economy and that tax cuts ALWAYS improve the econom- AND eliminate deficits, we can conclude that the New Deal programs which contained no tax cuts could NOT have improved the economy- we don’t need no stinkin data.”

It’s all very logical if you start with a gooper assumption.

If people had educations and training in critical thinking, mathematics, and logic, you would not need BS swatters to ride herd on the demagogues. (A little history and exposure to philosophy helps too: all share in being mental disciplines in working with facts.)

It’s arguable that FDR’s devaluing of the dollar (from $20 per ounce of gold to $35 per ounce of gold) was monetary policy that had a good effect.

Smoot-Hawley tariffs may well have been a bigger problem than the later budget balancing.

Paper confirmed theory that monetary stimulus is more effective at creating GDP than fiscal stimulus – all other things being equal.

And will someone please kill any ad that says that Coulter is a “mind that moves the world.”

It’s really offensive.

Krugman’s problem is that he’s just too bloody *nice*. He needs to develop some version of a gentle verbal cattle prod to indicate to the average idiot low-information viewer that the person he is responding to just finished making a total ass of him/herself.

McLuhan also deserved a Nobel. And you should get an award for the best and best-layered imagery of the week on my Mac! (I have to learn some Unix for that.)

I really thought Sam Donaldson was dead…is he ?

Uh oh, now they’ll never have another dem on the TV for a million more years!

And will someone please kill any ad that says that Coulter is a “mind that moves the world.”

It’s really offensive.

Is that like in Bowel movement, does go a way in explaining the shite. /s

No more than usual.

True.

There was another moment during the roundtable where you could see Krugman champing at the bits to correct something (can’t remember what the trigger was). I felt so bad for the guy.

I peopple had exposure to critical thinking, philosphy etc… The true genius of NCLB is to take up school hours learning how to pass tests.

It may have been Fiorina and her efforts to speak from behind her cement face and raccoon eyes….sorry, I do not know what she’s done to herself.

Fiorina… what a joke.

Love the part where she was saying ownership in the banks wasn’t what was required for the money given to them. Rather attaching strings was the ticket. Hah. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I must be GWB.

Smoot-Hawley is a red herring. First of all, it was enacted in 1930, after the depression had already begun Second, from your link:

effective tariff rate was 13.5% in 1929 and 19.8% in 1933 with 63% of all imports being duty-free

That kind of increase in tariffs cannot possibly have had major macroeconomic influences.

Also unfortunately, when inaccurate (the most polite word) analysis is being spewed, one doesn’t get to actually see Krugman’s face which could be used as a good *tell*.

Education now is a far cry from its apparent apogee about and shortly after the launch of Sputnik, but then, the senior teachers were those who began teaching around the Great Depression, to get jobs, one had to know their subjects. Those days will not be seen again, and the quality reflects. The other great problem is that those who are teaching do not receive the esteem (or the pay) necessary for the best and brightest to enter the profession. At a college I once attended, there was a saying to effect: Those who can’t do – teach; those who can’t teach – teach teachers. It was a cruel saying, at that time the denigration of education had already begun.

I tuned in about the time that Krugman had the noted exchange. Other than that, I thought his performance was pretty weak. He didn’t speak very much, including other opportunities to do the same corrective that he was in the cited exchange.

They prob’ly had his mic turned off. He doesn’t say what they want/expect him to say./s

Listening to Sam and Cokie talk about economics makes my ears bleed. Almost as bad, my eyeballs go into open rebellion at the site of that dead animal on top of Sam’s head.

LOL.

Sam and Cokie? Have we flashed back to th nineties?

If you need a laugh…Garrison Keillor, a show I never hear, had a whoop-it-up piece about W and his departure….as if he did not really go to TX. Very funny.

That dead thing has been there for forty years IIRC, must have penetrated the skull by now.

Honestly, re education, I recall way back in the dark ages of 1967, my freshman year in college, realizing that my dorm floor was distinctly divided between the ElEd (elementary educ) majors and everybody else, pretty much liberal arts/subject matter majors.

I worried then that I was going to have to battle regulary with my future (putative) children’s teachers, if they were like these students.

I am so happy and proud Krugman won his Nobel!!!

He still sports that gentle pixie grin, bright eyes, and modest attitude.

He has proved he doesn’t need to become pompous like some others we see.

Nobel hovering in the air above him, he more readily gains access to air-time, and print copy.

He has the sweetest, most extraordinarily effective way of gently destroying his opposition in any discussion, seemingly without ruffling the slightest hair out of place on their little heads.

Sometimes, I’d swear I can hear the air whistling just a little as his perfectly formed arguments appear before me, whoosh straight through his opposition’s empty brain from ear to ear and emerge intact and clear as a beacon on the other side.

A dear dear man. He almost makes economics fun.

I wish him well. I look forward to buying and reading more of his books.

Thank you Professor Krugman!

I am currently in the middle of applying to get an alternative teaching certificate from Houston ISD.Maybe I can help bring back some of the good old days. Maybe I’m just fooling myself.
My brother was shocked when I told him I regularly lied to my daughter. At first it was whoppers, now it’s hard to get anything past her.

The fruits of Obama’s charm offensive. Not.

Well, he put out his hand.
The ball was in their court.
They have shown who is the obstructionist, who is “agin” everything the opposition said.
Even if it’s only fodder for the partially converted, those who voted for less partisan rancor, I’m not sorry he went.

The “I won,” comment tells me he knew all along.

We should be able to pass whatever we want.
Oh, and did anyone see McCain’s comment? (I’ve lost the link, will look)

Senator McCain, who lost the presidential election to Mr. Obama in November, said that he planned to vote no unless the bill were changed.

“We need to make tax cuts permanent, and we need to make a commitment that there’ll be no new taxes,” Mr. McCain said. “We need to cut payroll taxes. We need to cut business taxes.”

(my bold)
The headline is “Republicans Resistant to Obama’s stimulus Plan.”
“Dog Bites Man” story if I ever saw one.

Krugman has what some might regard as a failing that sometimes could lessen his effectiveness in certain types of venues.

He is unfailingly polite, and allows others to speak. He does not routinely shout over others in a constant filibuster, like many lesser lights. If that occurs, it is not Krugman’s fault. I think it is far more a failing of a poor anchor/host, and a frequent, obnoxious gimmick of those with failed arguments.

Maybe, since he is currently such a popular guest on many networks, Krugman should decline to attend discussions which are poorly moderated free-for-all shout-fests, and let the networks know precisely why he will not show up until they clean up their act.

Maybe, as a compromise, we in his audience could let him be himself, and suggest he might want to request camera coverage of his face as well as that of one speaking to him during discussions. His face is so expressive, that way his arguments would gather more attention even if he is confronted by a mike hog and a biased or inept host.

(split screen is certainly not so complicated as to kaflumix today’s media completely.)

It is shortly time to start looking at trimming lard from the budget. These obstructionists may find themselves and their states at the head of the list. At some point, they will have to discover just what all share in being citizens of the country. Until then, repay mean with lean.

I once saw a guest leave during the break when there were 2 guests shouting/making it impossible to hear anyone. I was so proud of him, as the announcer had to explain his departure. Smart.

Maybe Obama went public so the likes of Krauthammer, Brooks & Kristol would jump right in an open trap, revealing their obstructionist meddling mindset for what it is: political partisanship, uncut but certainly on the bias.

I think Obama knew exactly what would happen. He just allowed them to play it out for all to see. Good for him.

Oh, Adie -

I don’t mean to be criticizing Krugman because I love the man dearly for all the qualities you describe. I just desperately want him to find some way around all the horrible things you mention about other guests so that he can get his knowledge out to a wider audience…and there probably isn’t a really effective way to do it, given the atmosphere in the so-called news venues these days.

Punish the people who would benefit from much-needed programs because their representatives are thuggish numb skulls?

Ehh, I don’t know. Isn’t that just the uglier flip side of unnecessary pork barrel spending?

Seems to me, neither is particularly desirable. Things will never be perfectly fair, especially in a sour economy, but I’d hope for some ground-level reasoning in the interest of serving the greater good, whatever and wherever.

Me too. I think we’re both a bit frustrated. You can’t fault a guy because he’s too polite, can you?! And yet… in today’s forums…. oh sigh.

I blame the MSM gurus whose main interest seems to be in stirring up conflict and bright shiny sparks enough to fill up time between commercials, and who seem not to care a whit about content, other than to serve their major shareholders.

thanks guys. i’m not trying to pick on anyone. just free-wheeling mind-wise in hopes of getting ideas from u terrific puppies.

i am utterly stumped by some of these problems, many of which probably will never will solved, really. politics is always going to be ebbing and flowing along mostly predictable channels. it’s frustrating to see where something’s heading, and not be able to help or hinder.

such is the nature of the beast.

Ding!

There must surely be research somewhere that indicates the % of time devoted to commercials vs. % spent in actual content in any given period of time. I can truthfully say I have NEVER bought any product based on a TV commercial but there sure are a hell of a lot of things I will NEVER buy simply because of their stupid ads. :-(

“We need to make tax cuts permanent, and we need to make a commitment that there’ll be no new taxes,” Mr. McCain said. “We need to cut payroll taxes. We need to cut business taxes.”

These vampires never give up, do they. Just what are “payroll taxes”? They are the busimess contributions to SSI, Unemployment, and Health Care Plans…and McCain wants to strip these from employees…or drown the programs that are funded by them…and let the employers pocket the money.

Cutting SSI was tried by Bush in 2005-2007…it was an epic FAIL.
Destroying unemployment was part of McCain’s agenda when he ran for President…although he kept it very low key once the economy tanked.
And this idea of wiping out the employer contributions to Health Care…that’s long been a Republican mantra.

What McCain is saying is eseentially…lets destroy the New Deal programs…and give it to the management of massive corporations like Target, Best Buy, McDonalds, and Budweiser. And I’ll bet the CEO’s of these companies (like Frau Cindy Blucher McCain) will get a massive bonus for lobbying successfully the GOP.

Listening to Sam and Cokie talk about economics makes my ears bleed.

No one should expect either of them to know how to pull a greased string out of a cat’s ass.

She does move the world…to a giant bowel movement.

Stimulus packages are truly unconstitutional. “Welfare”
Andrew Jackson would roll over in his grave if he could see what is happening…The Great BS Era
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