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[Please welcome Mike Lux and Host, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky]
I first met Mike Lux when he was director of the Iowa Citizen Action Network in the mid-1980s. With his wife Barbara Laur – herself a progressive leader – I knew Mike was someone to watch. Citizen Action was designed to connect local organizing efforts across the country – to build power from the grassroots up. I was part of Citizen Action Illinois and our goals were – and still are – to give people a sense of their own power and to make immediate/concrete improvements in people’s lives.
Mike Lux was a leader in winning those improvements in Iowa – as head of ICAN and later at the Iowa Federation of Labor. Together, we worked on energy pricing, health care, farm policy and toxic waste site cleanup. Mike had the extraordinary ability to think big about policy and strategy while also being one of the best on-the-ground organizers in the network. He combines the knowledge of what needs to be done with the organizing skills needed to get people engaged and empowered.
Since Iowa, Mike has been a valued presence nationally and in DC – working on health care with the Clinton Administration, helping direct People for the American Way, providing strategic guidance to organizations like Women’s Voices/Women Votes and Progressive Majority.
Mike also understands that grassroots organizing must be combined with electoral activity in order to make meaningful change. He has practiced his political skills at the local, state and presidential levels.
Mike is a person of many talents – policy, communications, electoral. And, in his new book, The Progressive Revolution: How the Best in America Came to Be, he has shown that he is also a serious student of progressive history and political trends.
Mike’s book documents periods in our history when conservative domination led to progressive renewal. Lux’s book describes the five “big change” moments in American history and how the progressive movement was responsible for those moments. Mike clearly lays out an argument backed by historical evidence that progressives have been the agents of change while conservatives have fought to maintain the status quo.
Mike writes:
Progressives invented the American ideal and inspired the American Revolution. Conservatives, then known as Tories, opposed it. Since then, every major advancement in American freedom, democracy, social justice, and economic opportunity has been fostered, fought for, and won by progressives against conservative resistance. Now who’s anti-American?
Last Tuesday, we ushered in a new progressive era in America with the swearing of President Barack Obama. We stand on the precipice of a transformational time in our history in which progressive values will lead our country out of the challenges we face today. In just the last few days, we have already seen President Obama reverse many of the regressive and misguided policies of the Bush Administration that have put this country on a perilous path – reversing the global gag rule that harmed women across the world, pledging our opposition to torture and closing Guantanamo. Much more progressive change is coming…..



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Mike, Welcome to the Lake.
Rep. Schakowsky, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Thanks for having us, and thanks to Jan as well, she’s a great friend.
I picked up a copy of Mike’s book in DC and got a chance to read it on the flight home. Just have to say this was a great read, I haven’t really seen American History presented in this way before. As Mike writes in the intro chapter the political party names and issues may change, but the battles are the same. The book goes on to illustrate that in a very enjoyable and educational way.
Definitely put this on your reading list this year.
Welcome to FDL Mike and Rep Schakowsky.
I have not had a chance to read your book (Bev gives us WAY too many good options for the reading list!), but I have to say, I like th title.
As it is Progress is the root of progressive and everything good that has ever come in this world is a result of progress, whether political, social, scientific, whatever.
Thanks, appreciate it. I tried to make history fun, because it’s boring way too often, and there are really some great stories to tell.
Thanks so much for being her today, Jan. Now that you are good friends with Dustin Hoffman (and Sam Stein is not) I am glad you still have the time.
;)
Just wanted to say I would have much preferred it if Jan Schakowsky was the new junior Senator from Illinois.
Jan and her husband Bob are tight with all the big celebs.
Thanks to everyone and esp. Bev at FDL for having Mike on!
I’m running a lot of the marketing around the The Progressive Revolution, and if anyone wants to pitch in with an event, interview Mike, get a review copy, or any other promotion, drop me a line at
Adam at theprogressiverevolution dot com
First-time authors have no marketing budget, and need a good deal of help getting the word out, and we welcome any and all, like from our friends at FDL.
Looking forward to the discussion.
Hi, everyone. I’m here now. So glad to be on with Mike Lux and talk about his new book. Let me ask a question, Mike. I know that you think change is not incremental. You see it concentrated in 5 “big change” moments. What are these?
1. The revolutionary war era itself.
2. The 1860s
3. The early 1900s (the progressive era)
4. The 1930s (New Deal)
5. The 1960s
All of these eras had multiple massive changes that transformed the country for all time, and made America a far better place.
It feels as if we are on the verge of #6, but is that inevitable?
Question for Mike on the book. Towards the end of the book you talk about some of the last few decades of Democratic power. It won’t be a surprise to any readers here but you say that we’ve missed big opportunities by being too cautious. When this was written we also hadn’t had the 2008 election yet. Do you have any advice for how we can combat this impulse to be cautious so we can capitalize on the mandate provided by this new election?
Welcome Mike and Jan. I haven’t read The Progressive Revolution so I’m just gonna lurk.
Unfortunatley, the list might have to include the 1980’s and the Reagan Revolution. Except for the caveats about change for all time and a better place.
Nothing is ever inevitable. It seemed for a while that we might be on to another one in the 1990s when Clinton came in, but the progressive movement was too fragmented and Democrats were too cautious.
Big change movements take constant activism and organizing to give politicians who want to make change the help they need to do it.
welcome to mike and jan.
hope it’s ok, i want to say a special thank you to representative jan schakowsky.
jan, thank you for the positions you took with regard to fisa modification during the 110th congress. according to my reckoning you were one of only 5 representatives with a perfect record on that issue. just wanted you to know that we were paying attention. many, many thanks
Lurkin’s allowed. Welcome.
“Reagan’s Revolution” was in no way progressive or revolutionary. It was a reactionary move of the pendulum in response to the progressive aspects of the ’60s.
A lot of us who follow economic issues are very concerned that
Obama’s team of Summers, Geithner, and Rubin helped deregulate us into the financial meltdown or in Geithner’s case did nothing to forestall it
the stimulus is the wrong size, poorly structured, and too heavily weighted toward unproductive tax cut
there is a lack of a comprehensive plan to tie energy and healthcare into a re-industrialization of the country to carry us beyond the short term effects such as they will be of the stimulus
there is no real focus on the problems which underlie the meltdown.
Any ideas about how to push a progressive economic agenda in the face of the ineffective DLC Chicago School neoliberal Washington Consensus one Obama is currently backing?
Many of us thought the 1960’s change moment would last longer. What are the factors that determine the lenght of these eras? We want this one to last a long time!
The 1980s were a pretty tough time, and reagan did some bad things, but they weren’t a big change moment in the way I think of: nothing big or important that really moved the country for the long, long term happened.
Jan, I have a marketing question for you.
What’s the best way to get books like these into the hands of members of Congress who may be getting sucked into, as Mike puts it in The Progressive Revolution, the “Culture of Caution”?
If someone wants to put a book into the hand of each member of Congress, there is a facility at the House and Senate post offices to do this for not too much money (plus the cost of the books.) Maybe someone in this conversation will make that happen!
Part of the answer is that we became complacent. Once we started pulling out of Nam a lot of folks figured the rest would take care of itself. Folks have to participate in the process to ensure what we achieve endures.
There was a backlash and division in the progressive movement, and things have been pretty conservative since, but the big changes that happened have lasted: Jim Crow is dead, women have far more rights and freedoms, the environment was dramatically cleaned up in important areas. Medicare, medicaid, head start, legal services are all still around.
But the way to build a long term political movement with staying power is to do what FDR did: pass programs that work for everybody.
Hi I have not read the book but I wonder if the movement to free the slaves was Progressive?
If it was then what happened to religion the Abolitionist Movement was religious, the Civil Rights Movement Organized in Churches by Preachers.
Today Rick Warren leads prayers the GOP has a lock on church going voters?
So What the hell Happened?
Mike, Are the changes we want in competition with one another – health care, environment, economy, foreign policy? Or during these periods can we make progress on all of them.
And stay united. When I was in the Clinton White House, progressives were way too fragmented and divided into single issue constituencies.
The question I have is how to rouse people like Harry Reid out of their stupor. Maybe he’ll have more spine now that Obama is President, but I thought most politicians wanted to be liked. If Reid wants his praises sung, he might as well listen to us. After all, it isn’t the centrists who donate the free time to work on campaigns and do the grunt work.
Mike i really would like to check oput your book, as i have read your comments on OPENLEFT. I agree with all your BIG FIVE CHANGES but i might suggest one more. 1820’s and the jackson era i think would be a good contestant. with its transendentalism etc. its is a period reminicent of the 60’s/70’s. what do your think.
What a treat to have both Mike and Rep Schakowsky here at the Lake – thanks for coming to chat with us.
Mike, in the book you talk about progressive infrastructure. Can you talk about what you think needs to be done to strengthen it, and how we in the blogosphere figure in to that?
What is the best way to get Congress people and the President to read up on an issue rather than listen to lobbyists, the MSM or their paid hack experts.
Welcome Mrs. Congressman and Mr Lux. I am in HS and we just finished studying the progressive era in US History, and I think we need a lot more progressivism in this country and in the government.
Absolutely the abolitionist movement was part of the great progressive tradition as was the civil rights movement.
I talk in the book about how much of the reason I am a progressive is that I was raised to be my brother’s keeper, to take care of the least of these. I hope progressive minded religion is making a comeback.
Mike, really looking forward to getting my hands on a copy. I’d second Jane’s question. It seems like Obama has been most in line with progressives in areas we’re strong in (energy is one example), so your assessment of our infrastructure will allow us to figure out where we can build to effectively move Obama more towards our point of view.
But that is just the thing. Republicans are totally top-down. While Democrats are the farthest thing from top-down, we do need some unity. How we get there and how we get treated will matter. Look at the bruised feelings Progressives still have towards the Clintons(because of stuff like NAFTA .. as one example).
I agree with you, which is why I am a member of a Unitarian church now. The best kinds of values.
I don’t think progressive goals are in competition at all, I think they do all need to happen at once. How can we re-build the economy without re-structuring health care and energy?
What my book shows is that in the eras of big change a lot of things happened all at once- Lincoln didn’t just free the slaves, he started the land grant university system and gave millions of acres of land to poor people. FDR didn’t just regulate the banks, he passed minimum wage and social security and labor law reform.
I second the question. I also oppose the stimulus package being called what the Liberals want by the media because I don’t want us to get the blame for a compromise bill full of tax cuts.
We had this with Carter economic trouble and no government stimulus to put people back to work.
It failed
Mike, I think we progressives will be fighting the Reagan legacy at least as long and hard as the conservatives fight the New Deal. Bush, deficits, “Rugged Individualism”, “Government can’t solve problems. Governmet is the problem.”
Progressives have been winning in general since the Magna Carta. Reaganism counts as a definite setback. How long those themes last is yet to be determined.
Congresswoman Schakowsky and Mike, an honor to have you at the Lake.
Mike – I’m so glad that you are putting progressive politics in a historic perspective … I often feel that we forget (or do not know) our history and so have trouble seeing both how far we have come – and how far we have to go.
For those of us involved in the ’60s, the very election of Obama is pretty magical but also a reminder that the changes we want to see may well take … 40 years.
I’m interested in your thoughts on how we organize with both an understanding that change takes time *and* a sense of urgency for now.
Great question, Jane. Building online organizing and communications capacity is the single most important thing that we can do, and doing it not just around single issues but around a bigger progressive vision. There are a lot of great ideas out there that progressives are working on- more training capacity for example. And I think we need to be creating our own narratives about history and change and governing.
Same here otherwise its the End Times when many people will follow false profits like the Republican Gods of Money, Hate of Anyone Different, and Short Term Thinking/Thrills like economic bubbles and war as a way to boost poll numbers and become famous.
Mike, Did you respond to Jane’s ? about how the role of the blogosphere in building the progressive infrastructure? I find that people are really hungry for “marching orders.”
Seconded.
It’s a great thing that progressivism is not a top down culture. I think unity comes from rallying around great goals- the big bold initiatives that will change this country. I hope that’s what Obama focuses on. Clinton did too many small things that didn’t rally anyone to his side.
Thirded!
You are absolutely right, Siun, that we need both urgency and a sense of perspective. But urgency is the most important, because history shows that if big things don’t start to happen right away when you have the opportunity, you lose the moment. That’s what happened to us in the ’90s.
As a followup, I’m wondering if you have a historical perspective on technology and how it relates to progressive change. Obviously, the Internet has changed our politics, but I know many are still struggling to figure out how online action interfaces with the offline world in an effective way. I wonder if there are other historical parallels in which technology transformed politics that can guide us.
Just went to Amazon and found this snippet from the jacket.
Works for me.
Mike, Did Bush provide the set up for Barack Obama and progressive change? Is that the one thing we can thank him for. Is a time of conservative, corporate, repressive government always ahead of change?
The blogosphere has already played such a huge role in re-invigorating progressive politics. I think that what is most important for us all to focus is the really big, transformational fights that will change the country for all time, and not get so caught up in the day to day drama as to who is up and who is down.
It actually follows what Staughton Lynd calls Solidarity Unionism, where every member is a leader.
Do you have any evidence that Obama is progressive on economic issues, as in his response to the housing bubble and financial meltdown?
I know you worked with the transition team, Mike, and are probably limited about what you can say about that, but following up Jason’s inquiry — how are the technological innovations that the Obama administration is contemplating going to affect the online community? How can we support/interact with them in a positive way?
jan, someone tries to give me “marching orders” i’m going to be convinced they are no progressive.
Question the Blogs are well largely White, Middle class, Well Educated.
what do Republicans Pollsters think when large numbers of them join Lefty Blogs as opposed to Righty Blogs?
The GOP thinks its power base is White Older and Male. If they lose them they are done.
Does the GOP fear or even acknowledge that a Progressive movement could steal their base?
If so what are they doing about it?
Progressive movements at their best have always been smart at figuring out how to best use technology to organize and educate. Tom Paine was a completely unknown printer who just printed up a bunch of copies of Common Sense and started distributing them in bars and among working people, not just to elites who had always dominated political dialogue, and that strategy changed everything. Populist organizers used the telegraph to organize events all over the country. King brilliantly understood how to use tv news coverage to educate people all over the country.
I hear they are going to get internet and IM and all that. /s
I completely agree.
FWIW, a high percentage of the FDL authors and commenters, who I respect the most, confess to be atheists/agnostics. I don’t want to say anything to offend them.
IMHO, the Roman Catholic Church is a huge problem. The hierarchy complains about the priest shortage at the same time that they (ignore history, celibacy was optional until the 12th century) require ALL priests to be male and celibate. In a stunning display of stupidity they outlaw birth control and choice. I am hopeful that DOJ will attempt to unearth the records of ordained child molesters who were transferred from parish to parish, on the pretexst of a self-induced labor shortage. If we could unlock the stranglehold that celibate males have on the Roman Catholic hierarchy, I think it would be a positive for civil society. Excavating the truth might also help Catholics receive the Sacraments from priests of both genders, married and celibate.
Action plan: buy the book, read it, donate it to local public library.
With the starving library budgets these days, they can use help building progressive collections.
We don’t know yet overall, but the details of his stimulus plan are far far better than anything Bush would have done.
Hi Snark Nice to see you at the Lake again.
I quit paying attention to “marching orders” when I got outta Nam.
Amen. I like to straggle myself.
Ever seen an anarchist sailor march?
The transition experience, especially as regards to change.gov and how to use it, was fascinating, because every decision we were making was brand new- we certainly couldn’t use the Clinton experience to guide us!
What the netroots will have to keep pushing on is openness and true interactivity. I think Obama and his team’s instincts on this are decent, but White Houses don’t like surprises, and really inviting interactivity guarantees surprises. The netroots are going to have to stay creative and nimble, keep pushing for new ways to be heard and interact.
We were talking here about Justice Taney here just last night. During its history the Supreme Court has almost always been opposed to progressive values. Before the Civil War it championed slavery as with Taney and Dred Scott. It strongly supported the rights of employers over those of workers during the Lochner era which cover two of the eras you cite the 1890s through the 1930s.
It is only for the brief period some 15 years of the Warren Court where the Court wasn’t reactionary. So how do you factor in the role of the Court in your writing?
i’m not a believer, but i’m also mindful that some of the longest enduring progressive organizations that work for social change are religious – the quakers and catholic workers are a couple that come to mind.
Re “marching orders.” I hear from lots of people who worked day and night, travelled for the obama campaign, and woke up every morning knowing how they could contribute to his election. I think many are suffering from “phone bank deficit disorder” and are waiting for concrete suggestions on how to contribute to making his Administration successful and progressive. I think our movement needs specific ways for people to engage and agree with Mike that we need some big issue campaigns that will mobilize people.
Since the change.gov site is now gone what is the best way to communicate with the WH team? We’re not known to be shrinking violets.
Fortunately for us, most of the GOP is stuck in the past when it comes to thinking about demographics and thematics that have worked in the past for them. they are lost right now, and I hope they stay that way for a while.
Bullseye.
Trust is a huge deal. I really trust Jane and Marcy. Back when this was a one-issue blog, most of the legacy media had sources saying Fitz had indicted Rove. People pounded Jane, Marcy, and Christy. Why won’t FDL confirm the story? Why won’t the sources leak to FDL, what they’re leaking to everyone else?
Congresswoman, I had no idea who you were. I learned from reading Jane that you were an outstanding, progressive. I’m captain obvious here, but a lot of people don’t have time to dig into all the legislative machinations, so places such as FDL are hugely important.
Men and women of honor, disgusted with the concept of slavery. The history of the UGRR in Western PA and the risks ordinary folkjs took to help people of color attain freedom from white slave owners and the trackers they employed, is an American value.
Progressives take risk in the hope of making things better. Conservative hold on to old ways out of fear, ignorance and many times just plain monetary selfishness! However, conservative religious folks of that day where progressive in that they where unwilling to compromise their moral belief that slavery was wrong. Just as America changed the day innocent girls where blown up and murdered by bigots, while attending Sunday school.
Work in progress. I think we will have an answer on that soon.
Thanks. How nice you know about Dorothy Day, a true American hero.
I was a raised Catholic. Just lets say that I think Jesus would be disappointed in the present Church hierarchy. I mean, I can understand their dislike of Democrats because of Roe v. Wade, but to support Bush just because of that when he isn’t pro-life is just silly. They make themselves look like the fools they are.
How do you expect that mighty contradiction to play out?
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Much of my book focuses on the debate between hope and fear.
I can think of a few “big issues.”
Single payer healthcare.
Quality public education throughout the United States.
A loophole-free progressive tax code.
For starters.
Don’t know yet, except that online activists will have to keep pushing.
Completely agree.
That’s just the thing. I have ideas but don’t know how effective they’d be. How do we go about getting Progressives on Meet the Press, for example? To get Progressive voices louder in the mainstream.
Citizen Mike Lux:
What a treat, thanx for bein’ here…what about establishing progressive “think tanks” not just to provide “welfare” for professional citizens and out of office policy makers but to sponsor publishable research and analysis and give a megaphone to working academics to rebuild the progressive infrastructure on the campuses and make sure be don’t lose another generation like what happened in the 80’s.
One of the things I talk about in the book is how ironic it is that a country founded on radical ideas of equality and democracy is constantly pulled back in a conservative direction, and I compare that to the irony of conservatives claiming Christianity when it was founded by a guy who said you will be judged on whether you feed the hungry.
Half Measures can’t work its like an American mild hybrid trying to steal car sales from the Toyota Prius.
Investors will look at Obama’s war spending in Afghanistan. They will look at the tax breaks to Business and realize that we are not serious about cutting spending.
The Dollar will fall until then just like the Gold Standard one country won’t buy our T Bills and then there will be a mad rush to the exists.
I hear talk of cutting entitlement programs but not one word about cutting Missile defense.
National Health Care would save us money and insure everyone but our Dems in Congress lack the Stones to do it.
Every Car should be a gas or Diesel Hybrid we are giving the car companies money to retool.
Imagine every dollar not spent on gas as a dollar not going to Ossama but instead our economy.
Obama needs to think bigger, he needs to ask what is the return on investment, is it the best return on the invesment we can get.
Tax Cuts as Bush has Shown don’t return money to the economy if investors use their tax cuts to invest outside the US.
And, according to Before the Storm, there was a similar way in which conservatives built their infrastructure: buying conservative economic textbooks for the poorest school districts.
I think you’ve seen how feedback is managed from the experiments at change.gov.
I know I’ve heard folks complaining that the new White House blog doesn’t allow comments. Change.gov’s didn’t either, and I think there’s a good reason for that. Those posts would get thousands upon thousands of comments, and not be very useful. Instead, the transition opened up for comments in controlled ways, asking specific questions using new technology to rank and categorize comments. I think it was probably much more useful for Obama’s team.
Now, of course, that kind of control can be abused in such a way to only get the feedback you’re looking for instead of truly listening, but so far I haven’t seen that tendency from Obama or his new media team.
So, I think you’ll see the same kinds of structured feedback events on whitehouse.gov that you saw on change.gov
p.s. The above question ken go ta Rep. Shakowsky too.
oooo, great question. We are really in a hurt where it comes to corporate media.
Mike, Can you share any lessons you learned by studying the earlier periods of progressive change that will benefit us as we move forward?
The big question is, how do we make it happen(Remember the old FDR quote about the people making the change happen)? Do we stage sit-ins? Go to the shareholder meetings of the big health insurers?
We need to do more of that, for sure. CAP and CAF, founded in the last few years, are great examples of that.
Oh, we’ll push Obama all right. You can take that to the bank. What I want some insight into is how he’ll react to that. Will he get peeved, disgusted, dig in his heels because we’re getting in his way? Prezes usually have monumental egos and don’t take kindly to those who push back.
Yes but if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. And not being Bush sets the bar way too low. If progressives will have to end up shouldering responsibility for Obama’s economic plans they should at least reflect some of our thinking.
If you read what people like Stiglitz or Krugman or even me have to say about this, the stimulus doesn’t fix what is broken in our financial system, it will give some relief and has a better than even chance of keeping us of depression, it may even technically move us out of a recession briefly, but once it’s done it’s done, and we could easily find ourselves a couple of years from now deeper in debt and sliding back into recession or worse. We have to be thinking and implementing now a new industrial policy for what comes after or we are going to be hit hard by the aftermath of the stimulus. It is not enough to do something. What we do has to lead somewhere.
The most important single thing is to think big and bold, not small and cautious. It’s also key to have creative tension with the White House- to keep pushing hard for progressive change from the outside but also to have a constructive inside strategy so that the movement doesn’t marginalize itself.
Yes. We know Jack Welch was a hardcore Republican. And CNN has become a shell of itself ever since Ted Turner sold it. For the good things about Air America(Maddow for one), they don’t have much of a megaphone. Does anyone think a Progressive answer to Faux News would work? It obviously wouldn’t be profitable for a while. It would be a 5 to 10 year project to make it really viable.
this is historically clear, the constitution is a liberal document, declaration of independance is a liberal document, the bill of rights is a liberal document
that is optimistic at best, obama has not shown he is a progressive as far as I am concerned, he asked the democrats to sign off on the rediculous fisa cave and telecom immunity, he asked the democrats to sign off on the rediculous “bail out” to banks which amounted to free money to the very people stealing it in the first place
the worst thing is these were not “mistakes in judgement”, he was well informed the results, the implications long before he asked the dems to sign off and yet he did
so far so goo, I am happy with his first 100 hours but let’s wait either way before we call him some kind of progressive, I am surely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt so far but today is not tomorrow
Follow up Me and the Snark for example are Nonwhite and educated I’m sure there are a few more out there today.
We are forming ties with Progressive Middle class, Educated Whites at the Lake.
The GOP if anything should fear a popular movement that is growing that crosses racial lines.
This is their Class Warfare scenario made manifest.
I think Obama has the self-confidence not to get rattled by criticism, so I doubt he will react badly to pressure. As I said in an earlier answer, it’s important to be constructive in the dialogue but to never back off.
I agree with selise
Anyone tries to give me marching orders is going to be told where to stick it ;-)
They can ask me
jan, I do not think at all “we” are waiting for marching orders, I believe progressives are not followers, I believe we alone understand that the president works for us not the other way around
I think this has to start out as a face-to-face with folks we know, at work and otherwise. That said, there has to be a lot of education on how such a system would work and it has to be consistent. There are a lot of interpretations of “single payer” out there and that won’t help the cause. We are going to have to be able to show Congress an united front and force them to pass what we want, not what the health insurance industry wants them to pass.
OMG, is that the criterion that Obama is holding himself to???? Better than Bush??? Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
WRT the economic stimulus, and I spent over 25 years as a Wall St. economist, the economy is facing a bottomless pit. That is not a 100% probability, but it’s probably close to a 50% one. Tax cuts are stupid when the economy is in a paradox of thrift. I get the impression that Obama & his team haven’t a clue about how dire things are and what the only possible options are to take the economy out of a death spiral.
I suspect, as with what happened to Lincoln and FDR, that huge problems will require ever more radical solutions, and that Obama will respond to that dynamic.
One of the ways popular input has already been abused is by Daschle setting up discussions on healthcare reform but specifically excluded single payer universal healthcare.
Is the arc of American history progressive or regressive? I can see looking back at the five eras in the book might lead one to be optimistic, but coming off the last eight years, it’s easy to be discouraged about our future, never mind our present. We’ve lost any sense of government accountability to public values, our ability to reverse the concentration of wealth and privilege is doubtful, our faith in whether the Constitution is strong enough to hold against a ruthless administration is shaken — yet correcting these core problems seems to be the last thing the new Congress and Administration want to do. It’s demeaned as “looking backward,” even though correcting those problems may be necessary to move forward.
What do our guests think our future holds? Did we blow it?
I am not white but I will go to college.
If the GOP starts losing Race as an issue whats left?
The GOP rallies people’s emotions with Fear Hate etc.
Progressive movements rally people’s good emotions the Desire to help others and to do whats right.
Or as the GOP calls it Class Warfare.
Dems often try to be intellectual without being emotional the DLC and Blue Dogs for example.
Why does the GOP get to be emotional? Why are our *cough* leaders scared?
I take it you want us at the Lake to get paid for what we happily do for free:)
I second it!
“What we do has to lead somewhere” I agree. We need to lead the world in alternative energy production. Lead the world!!! Instead of killing and invading countries to protect conservative corporate energy interests, while wasting billion of dollar on corporate welfare and war, and dead Americans
You are right that we have yet to see, and I am an optimist about him, in part because of the desperate times we live in- I believe he will respond to them as FDR responded to his.
But I also believe that, while I know he will disappoint us at times, his thinking fits far more into the broad progressive framework of Jefferson, Paine, Lincoln, the Roosevelts, MLK than it does the Reagans, Bushes, Hoovers, Coolidges, the robber barons and social darwinists.
I think the arc is neither. What history shows is that it is a constant battle, first one side with the advantage, then the other.
Your more educated on the issues than many I have seen with a degree. Viewers of the Comedy Show The Daily Show are more educated on the issues than Fox News Viewers sadly some of them I am sure have College Degrees…like the Chimp legacy admissions.
Mike, in The Progressive Revolution, you talk at length about the universal health care fight in 1993-94 from your perspective in the White House and what went wrong. That included a huge lack of infrastructure to compete with, among other things, conservative talk radio.
I think the playing field is a little more level today, though not quite there on a lot of fronts (talk radio included). The opposition is still the same and still as well-funded.
So what are our prospects this time around?
Agree.
I don’t mind tax cuts for the middle class, but it’s tough to see no mention of higher taxes on the top 5%, as we go deeper into debt to China. The top 5% are just spending most of it on
casino capitalismcredit default swaps, that generate zero value.FWIW, Nouriel Roubini and Joe Stiglitz have both been guests on CNBC’s
Whoring for the RobberbaronsSquawkbox.FWIW
Vandals paint “This is war” on side of bank building
Posted: Jan. 19, 2009
The problem is that we are already 18 months into this crisis. The housing bubble burst back on August 9, 2007 with the freezing of the BNP Paribas funds and the subsequent panic. We do not have endless time for do overs and changes in direction. Nor do we have endless resources to fund these efforts. Obama needs to get this right the first time and his math and his plan simply won’t do it.
this i can get behind. i love being asked to help – but i also expect to be treated with respect and not as soldier following orders. which is where the “marching orders” pushed my buttons. i misunderstood your meaning.
as for big issues – there are plenty to choose from: single payer health care, energy transformation, economic restructuring for a real economy instead of a paper economy (based on the finance industry) are a few.
the problem i see obama having is that any of these issues, in order to get popular support, would not have a significant portion of the establishment on board. i don’t see how obama can have both big issue campaigns with popular support – and operate via bipartisanship if bipartisanship is defined in DC terms. for example, the center of the country wants universal single payer health care. but apparently not the center of the political elite.
maybe mike has some ideas about this? how can we imagine big issue campaigns that obama won’t reject due to insufficient bipartisanship?
They need to spend money on things that involve kids, especially health care, education, pre-school, and helping abused or homeless or neglected kids.
Mike, if you haven’t already, I hope you will answer Scarecrow’s question about the arc of American history being progressive or regressive. I am an optimist too and I definitely see it as progressive, but these next years are so consequential that it is unclear yet whether or not the huge global issues can be addressed in time. As for “looking backward”, there are many of us in the Congress that think that the crimes that have been committed cannot go unpunished, as Pres Obama said, but without looking back they will. Worse they will set a precedent for the future. Rep. John Conyers is our leading in calling for an independent commission.
I understand. This is exactly why we got buried on FISA.
I think our prospects are better this time, in great part because online activists give us a rapid response capacity, an organizing capacity, and a communications capacity we just didn’t have last time. I also think conservatives are far more divided and dispirited than last time.
We were almost 4 years into the great depression when FDR took over, and he didn’t do everything right immediately, but we still made it.
Seconded plus the GOP will blame him if his plan fails because of all the compromise tax cut junk he has thrown in.
Also Jan can you defend the University of Chicago’s Economic Department?
They Chicago School of Economics has done more Damage to the country than Al Quieda.
You do that Cassie! You will do great in college and with hard work you
WILL graduate at the top of your class! You have already demonstrated just how worldly you are already. Good luck Cassie and apply for every scholarship you can… you will need the money.
The liberty we all fail to enjoy goes to energy and health care. Two antiquated systems resisting change at all cost. The hallmark of conservatives. Why……….. money plain and simple!
2005 24.6 % of GDP Health care and energy!!! Liberty lost and common sense! I’m sure the numbers for 06′ 07′08′ are even worse.
I hope you and Conyers and the others fighting for accountability don’t back down. This is really important. I talk in my book about how conservatives tend to disregard the rule of law, and if there is no accountability, they will be just as bad or worse when they get into power.
I know someone who always calls it the 1930’s Republican Great Depression
I have been shocked by how weak our system has proved. There is always this tendency to want to say if it is American it’s best. But whether it is healthcare, education, incorruptibility of our political system, our eschewing imperial wars, our respect for the rule of law, Geneva, and the Constitution, we have fallen down. There things like torture that I never expected ever that we would do and yet they were done with no opposition and little criticism from the media, the Congress, the Courts, or Democrats.
The GOP was discredited then in 4 years Obama needs results big ones or the GOP will discredit him. He does not have time to change direction it take 6 months for a change to be felt in the economy.
If his changes do nothing he will have less political capital to change direction which means a smaller change than he made the first time with less results.
I think it is fine for Obama to symbolically reach out to Republicans- going to the dinner honoring McCain, saying he wants GOP support. But there will be plenty of things there won’t be much bi-partisan support for.
They’re just gonna lie on Fox Noise anyway.
Far be it from me to defend the Chicago – Milton Friedman – school of market fundamentalists. The last 8 years have proven their theories wrong.
Sorry my 127
says
Also Jan can you defend the University of Chicago’s Economic Department?
They Chicago School of Economics has done more Damage to the country than Al Quieda.
It should say
Also Jan can you defund the University of Chicago’s Economic Department?
They Chicago School of Economics has done more Damage to the country than Al Quieda.
I agree that Obama has to produce some big changes, some real results that matter to the American people, and he has to do it sooner rather than later.
Absolutely right, those kinds of programs that invest in people will be what helps the economy.
How does the saying go? Commissions are even better than doing nothing because they look like you are doing something.
Dennis Blair in his hearings just a day or two ago said that he would not pursue anyone who tortured. Both Obama and Biden have said they want to move forward and not dwell on the past. Cass Sunstein has decried the desire to criminalize policy differences but if we do not have real accountability this will happen to us again. We do not need a commission or just a commission. We need an independent counsel who can investigate, prosecute, and report.
Good point how can Progressives compete if the other side can lie all the time and nobody but KO, and Rachel on Cable or us Bloggers call them on it?
Is Obama going to start nailing these entertainment shows that pretend to be news?
Media stocks suck look at TimeWarner look at News corp on Google finance and hit the 10 year chart it is not pretty.
The MSM is loosing viewers and money by being a bunch of right wing Propaganda Agents as loosing 2 wars and having a destroyed economy opens the Sheeple’s eyes and the Sheeple tune them out.
There have been several articles/blogs recently arguing that the great progressive progress came about by extremely bold, unprecedented actions/proposals. And so that’s what Obama and this Dem Congress need to do, but, as Hugh (and many here) have been arguing, the proposals we’re seeing are too timid, too small, not really groundbreaking. It’s as though we’re losing the best opportunity we’ve been handed in decades, and it’s extremely frustrating to watch.
Do our guests agree, and how do we change this?
a lot of people didn’t.
iraq could also one day “make it” to – but that only tells the story of the people who wheren’t one of the million plus dead or probably one of the 5 million displaced.
saying the country made it ignores the story of all those people who didn’t. and just as with our decision to invade iraq, there are points of no return. maybe not for you, maybe you will be ok. but many, many people will not.
I would support an independent counsel, but I would also say that a strong commission with subpoena power can sometimes uncover important things.
I may have mispoken about the shape that our accountability measures will take. The point is, Conyers and the progressive caucus is determined to hold the Bushies responsible for shredding the Constitution accountable — not just act like we are.
Hi Mike, thanks for chatting with us!
First, do you plan on doing a book tour?
And second, I haven’t read the book, but do you think it would be appropriate for my independent and conservative friends and family members?
i have no problem with the dinners either. my question about bipartisanship was meant to address things like the focus tax cuts in the stimulus package or half measures on health care instead of a workable single payer.
Bullseye.
we are three years into this depression, it didn’t just start, this is the boil that has been festering
and I believe the economy turned around months after fdr placed his programs into use
do not let anyone tell you this has been a recession up till now, it has been recession for at least the last five years with the last 2 to 3 being recession so severe it is depression
I have been speaking about this for about two years with most economists agreeing or tempering that agreement with “probably”
Mike, before we end, I wanted to get back to the question of whether, overall, the country has been moving in a progressive direction. Do you think the accomplishments of past “big change” moments have been enduring, for the most part, or have they been wiped out when the pendulum has swung back?
I feel incredibly sad about the people who got crushed by the depression, some of my family were among them. But FDR and the New Deal didn’t suck because of those tragedies. The New Deal lifted this country (the we in that sentence you quoted) out of the great depression, just as I hope that Obama will keep moving in a more progressive direction and lift our country out of our crisis now.
Like you I’m simply amazed and disgusted at how fast things went south. The ability of certain men to compromise the rule of law unfettered, is gross! Even grosser the collective failure to hold blatant criminals accountable, so far!
No silent German American here. People in prior positions of power are criminals and must be accountable for the thousands of lives destroyed or lost as a result of bold faced lies offered as a facade to gain access to crude oil less expensive to extract in Iraq. Literally oozes out of ground!!!
The “1933 Business Plot” and FDR / The Iraq Oil Plot and President Obama!!
Guys like the criminal Tom Delay, attached to oil at hip!!!
The more the real economy fails the more people will turn to the underground economy to get by Crime.
The Great Depression also had Gangsters getting rich off of prohibition.
It sure would be a shame if because Obama wants to compromise on the stimulus plan to get GOP votes that African American incarceration rates get higher under his watch.
I can field the tour question…
We are planning a book tour, all events on our calendar SO FAR can be found at The Progressive Revolution website. There’s a calendar in the bottom left of all upcoming events, and you can also just click on “upcoming events”, and there’s a full list there with details.
Most immediate is that we’ll be in Philadelphia on Tuesday 2/3 with Drinking Liberally-Center City, hosted by Chris Bowers; NYC on Tuesday 2/10 for an event with Eli Pariser and Gara LaMarche at The Tank hosted by Living Liberally and Progressive Book Club. And we’ll be out on the Left coast Feb. 14-20, finalizing some events, then back again in NYC on 2/21 for the YDA conference. Hitting several states in the Midwest in late March/early April.
There are events being added all the time, so sign up for the e-mail list and keep checking back.
What about war crimes? Rachel Maddow pointed out we Americans have executed people for that.
Oh and Bush is pro death penalty. If he were found guilty I’m sure he would approve.
could you elaborate or give me a link to this?
I don’t know anything about it
thanx in advance james
thank you.
I must say, while I am no supporter of the death penalty I have a certain fetish for iron
*what to do*
I think one of the things that defines a successful big change moment is that the advances that are achieved endure. That was true with the ending of slavery, the homestead act, the land grant universities, the great constitutional amendments of the 1860s. It was true of women getting the right to vote, the national park system, the progressive income tax of the early 1900s. It was true of social security and minimum wage and the great reforms of the New deal, and of medicare and medicaid and the clean air and water acts and the other great reforms of the 1960s. We ought to be looking at achieving big changes- in health care, in energy, in rebuilding the middle class- that can’t be rolled back.
Thanks for doing this with me, Jan.
So how would the Founders look at Bush and would they have thought another revolution was necessary?
Come to Chicago and we’ll plan a party – hopefully with a new Congressman Tom Geoghegan!
The founders weren’t monolithic. Hamilton would have been delighted by most of Bush’s policies, Adams would have liked some but not all. Jefferson, Franklin, and Paine would have been calling for Bush’s head
you make a good case for what to focus on. thanks.
I believe it was thomas paine and thomas jefferson who first proposed a progressive tax
ineresting that factoid, I will try to find the referance
We will be getting to Chicago around the first of April.
You got it!
What about Texas?
Mike, Thank you for putting our movement into historic context. You have been and are one of the most important progressive voices in our country, and now you have put some of your thoughts into this great book. I thank FDL for giving you (and me) this venue and encourage everyone to buy “Progressive Revolution:How the Best in America Came to Be” by Mike Lux. It’s been an honor to be with all of you. Jan
I know Paine was definitely into it, I talked about that in my book, don’t remember seeing anything re Jefferson and that idea.
Thanks Mike, it’s been great chatting.
thomas jefferson;
As we come to the end of this great discussion,
Mike, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussion your new book and progressives.
Rep. Schakowsky, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.
Everyone, this is a must read book on progressives, if you haven’t bought one yet, there is a link above.
Thanks all.
my thanks to mike, jan and everyone.
We very much want to get to Texas, haven’t figured out specific dates yet. Once we do, we will letting people know that and other new events at http://www.theprogressiverevolution.com.
Thanks for having me on, this has been great. Sorry if I missed anyone’s questions.
One of the things I keep seeing is how conservatives use progressive victories against them. So for example the 14th Amendment (along with the 13th) ended one great wrong but the due process clause of the 14th Amendment was then used to favor the rights of employers over those of workers from everything from minimum wage to child labor. And an affirmative use of the 14th Amendment in Plessy v. Ferguson cut no weight in the Court’s separate but equal ruling.
Thats why we yell:)
I am sure of it but it will take some time finding the quote, anyway, look to tom hartmann for research, first link up gave me this about pain;
Rep. Schakowsky and Mike, thank you for spending this time with us.
Thanks to everyone at FDL for having Mike on and helping push The Progressive Revolution and other progressive books out. Like Mike said, I think this kind of place is incredibly important and vital to a healthy movement.
You can follow The Progressive Revolution, buy a copy, interviews, the book tour, etc. at:
http://www.theprogressiverevolution.com
And again, we have to rely on help from friends to help promote this book, so if you can pitch in, has contacts for interviews or event spaces around the country, can host a book party, or anything else, e-mail me at:
Adam at theprogressiverevolution dot com
Thanks again.
I would just like to add my thanks to our guests.
An independent book store in Austin is great for scheduling book appearances. A long list of very interesting speakers.
great to have you here mike, I can’t find the jefferson quote, it was in some of his writing…something about inherited wealth being taxed along with progressive tax
anyway, loved reading your responses and will look to that book
new post
Thanks Mike and Jan for being here today. It was great to have both of you on.
The book is great and I highly recommend it. Anyone involved in serious thinking about how to achieve progressive goals going forward should read it.