I wish NO DRAMA OBAMA would catch on as a trend in politics

Wow. Just…wow.

Is this the NYS Dems’ way of keeping the local newspapers alive?

Loosehead!

just one more thing…

I don’t know, but this is some theater

about each one before finally revealing the murdered

Did you mean murderer?

Geez, this business of watching sausage politics being made is really creepy.

All politics is NOT local?

I would like to see each of those under consideration advise Patterson that they won’t be attending. I wonder if he plans on getting around to the winner by first announcing the runners-up.

I’m going to make a fool fo myself and weigh in here about the re-election calculation.

Gillibrand self describes herself as conservative, actually IIRC, she called herself THE MOST conservative in the NY caucus. Which means, she hurts the ticket with the base.

If McCarthy primaries Gillibrand, lots of downstaters will be pissed off and unenthusiastic about candidates who supported Gillibrand.

Paterson’s re-election votes are downstate, with the base. It would have made some sense to pick the Mayor of Buffalo, a man of color, who would appeal to both upstate and down state–and Buffalo has a pocket of Dem votes.

But to pick someone from a district that is not ever going to go for Paterson, seems crazy. And for Paterson to hurt himself with NYC and LI in the process, seems suicidal.

I just don’t get it.

Thanks, I fixed it

Except..no raincoat…
Of course, the really ironic thing is that Peter Falk has a glass eye, which, when he was in high school and was acting as a study hall monitor, he used to take out and put on the dask facing the kids so that he could leave to go to the bathroom. “Remember..I’ve got my eye on you,” he supposedly said.

Gillibrand makes CK look good. Yes, she self-describes as the most conservative D in the state, has strong endorsement from NRA, is anti-choice and against gay marriage.

JHFC

Jeez. It sounds like she might even be the most conservative R in the state.

Ecan–are yousure about the anit-choice thing? Wasn’t she an Emily’s list candidate her first time?

Well done, Jane. Whatever else Kennedy may have been, she’s certainly more progressive than Gillibrand. If Paterson appoints her, she’ll be just another Blue Dog dem to deal with, and her House seat will likely revert back to the GOP next cycle.

Oh, and Paterson was quoted on wnyc this morning as saying he thought the seat should be held by a woman. As a NYS woman, I resent that. I think woman should have a fair playing field, and maybe get the nod when it’s close, owing to ongoing discrimination. But statements like that are condescending and make it look like we can’t achieve on our own.

I don’t know. Just repeating what I heard on wnyc. Did they get it wrong?

agreed.

bad choice — but better than Kennedy (which is not saying much).

and Cuomo will definitely now run for Gov against Paterson too.

With regard to all these comments, I’m wondering why she has been selected, if that is the case. Now I’ll know what to listen for when he does make the announcement.

I think Paterson may be trying to audition a pilot for a new television show. We’ve had Survivor, Project Runway, Next Iron Chef, and American Idol . . . welcome to “Who Wants to Be a Senator?”

I can just imagine Paterson lining the prospective candidates up behind him on the podium, then sending them off the stage one by one (”Mr. Nadler, you’re a fine member of Congress, but I have to ask you to leave the podium . . .”).

NY now has to have a special election to replace Gillibrand. Will her district go Rethug now? Regardless, in real time we’re down 1 in the Senate if she’s truly conservative. I think she’ll have to show her true colours sooner rather than later with this Congress. We go from there.

My wife heard the same thing and said to me that if Patterson picks Gillebrand, she’s actually going to hold her nose and vote for Giuliani because of choice and gun control.

I argued that as important as those issues are, I don’t think they’re worth diminishing the Democratic Caucus. But on these issues, Mrs ralphbon is a PUMA. There are more voters like her out there, and Patterson should take heed. Any Caroline would be preferable.

LOL!

That or maybe she took the check from Emily’s List and then changed her stripes? I don’t think they endorsed her the second time.

The first race she showed up at all the wimunz events. Like the Eleanor Roosevelt’s Legacy lunch and stuff. Second race, er, not so much. She stopped pretending to care about Dem grass roots organizations.

Demi–other than gender, I don’t get why she would even be a contender.

This is a slap in the face to Caroline Maloney–who had the face saving way out for Kennedy in that Kennedy could run for–and would almost certainly win–Maloney’s Cong seat.

Gillibrand is one of the few nominations that brings SOOOOOO much downside and almost no upside. I really don’t understand the calculation.

So, yeah, I guess we all need to listen closely to Paterson’s speech

Her district, which was a gerrrymander GOP district to begin with, is likely to revert GOP. More crazy–though some people think it will be eliminated outright when we lose one congressional seat in the next census.

I don’t think Gillibrand has a Dem waiting on the bench who can win her seat.

Thanks. I was beginning to fear I had hallucinated it.

I agree that those are not my most important issues, but still …

Joe Lieberman in a dress.Well done Ms. Hamsher

Well, she is Catholic. I’ve been googling around and haven’t found anything definitive yet.

Tell Mrs. Ralph that she can join me as a McCarthy volunteer for the primary.

Caroline McCarthy is very fun to be around. Great sense of humor and very very sincere–in the Jerry Nadler way. DC has not made her cynical, yet

Did they pass out talking points with the kool-aid?

I agree with eCahn’s comment above about the slap in the face regarding women needing men to lift them up.
When will we be able to simply look at people’s character and agendas and not have to worry about gender and race quotas?

I hear tell McCarthy will run against Gillibrand. (Amy Walters Hotline)

Hey, Jane didn’t pick Gillibrand.

There were genuine progressive on the list–Like Nadler, Israel. There were gun control, environmental reform, socially liberal fiscally conservative moderates on the list like Suozzi and Maloney, and Cuomo. There were other upstaters on the list, like Brown from Buffalo.

Paterson had an excellent field to chose from.

Here’s a quote from her on 06 saying she is pro-choice.

“…There are members of that caucus that have conservative views on other issues that I don’t agree with. There are members of that caucus that are not pro-choice. I am pro-choice. There are members of that caucus that have other views about unions, for example. I am very much in favor of unions.”

Link.

But perhaps, as lhp points out in 26, she’s changed her stripes since then? We’ll find out, I suppose.

Sorry Jane – you won the battle but lost the war on this one.

When I use other people’s thinking I generally credit them.

Anything else is commonly known as “stealing.”

Yep. I have a link to a Newsday story saying that McCarthy announced this AM in my piece.

Of course, McCarthy’s threat may cause Paterson to reconsider. Or the whole Gillibrand thingy may be more misdirection. The first link in my piece take you to a Ben Smith story speculating that maybe the whole Gillibrand thingy is more mind games.

In which case Kirsten will have screwed herself with just about every major media outlet for making them look silly.

Can you imagine the mockery if that happens? Andrea Mitchell will be want to jump of the roof.

Like I said, this is some theater!

Does anyone know Cuomo’s future plans?

You are right, Ms. Hamsher didn’t make the pick but her crusade against Ms.Kennedy sure didn’t help matters.

The NYTimes cites a person who spoke to the Governor.
Gov. David A. Paterson has selected Representative Kirsten Gillibrand, a 42-year-old congresswoman from upstate who is known for bold political moves and centrist policy positions, to fill the United States Senate seat vacated by Hillary Rodham Clinton, according to a person who spoke to the governor

Being against a bad idea should not be reinterpreted as being responsible for a REALLY bad idea. When discussing politics in light of less than complete information, you can only go on the facts in hand and likely things that you don’t know for sure. On the “likely” scale, Gillibrand was pretty low.

CK had the Harry Reid stamp of approval, just like Joe Lie.

no– Schumer picked her is what it looks like — and he always supports the more conservative people, in races nationwide.

How do you know, or suspect, that Schumer picked Gillibrand? (I hate Schumer and wish we could get him out, but in light of his support from Wall St., that will never happen.)

Your use of the word “crusade” is completely unfair.

Jane was very early to bring up legitimate concerns, which later gained widespread traction. Jane did the same thing when she picked Lamont in January 2006 when he had 9% name recognition in CT.

One thing that is clear is that the appointment of US Senators is not a good idea.
Special elections are the way to go.

Paterson had an excellent field to pick from. Really excellent

So who’s thinking am I “stealing” here, Jane?

Either your blog has influence or it doesn’t; you can’t conveniently hide behind the “I didn’t make the appointment” excuse while simultaneously claiming that FDL is a player in the real world.

As noted above (by people other than myself – are they “stealing” ideas too?) you may not have made the appointment, but you (and Kos)certainly didn’t help matters. We had a chance to fill that seat with someone who may not have had experience, but would have had her pick of serious policy wonks to work in her office, as well as someone who likely would have had a hotline to the WH. Instead, NY gets a Blue Dog junior Senator who will likely be primaried, and her House seat in a heavily GOP district will likely go back to the other side of the aisle.

Long term thinking – you’re doing it wrong.

“person who spoke to the governor” could = Gillibrand herself?

Notice it’s not person in the gov’s office. Or person who speaks for the Gov.

So, which is it? Bloggers are foul mouthed pj wearing losers or Jane Hamsher has a direct link to decision makers?

OT but everyone should read this speech by Sheldon Whitehouse given on the Senate floor yesterday. It needs to go viral. Devasting indictment of the Bush/Republican regime of the last 8 years.

http://whitehouse.senate.gov/n…..b7b765d5ee

Either your blog has influence or it doesn’t;

If it “doesn’t,” what in the hech are you doing here?

I don’t know if you can conflate Schumer urgeing McCarthy to support/not primary whoever paterson picks, with Schumer having either picked Gillibrand or supported her beforehand.

I think the quote about schumer can be read more neutrally to mean he doesn’t want to see a party fracturing war break out in NY.

hell, we only just tamped down the mess in the NYS senate!

Thanks lhp.

Thanks to Oliver Wolcott for opening the digg.

But Tom, not one person that I know of on this blog supported Gillibrand or even considered her a serious contender. I publicly discounted her a number of time.

I still do, I cannot for the life of me, see the logic in picking her.

Usually, even if I disagree with somethig, I can usually follow the other side’s logic. Not this time.

Democratic Rep Caroline McCarthy, a strong gun control advocate, has indicated she may primary Patterson’s choice. Could be a real Democratic food fight.

OT: But does anyone know if there’s an action alert in place already? It’s looking like Hilda Solis might need our help in becoming Labor Sec. She’s one of the few actual Liberals Obama has picked, so naturally Repubs are lining up to block her.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/new…..e-nominee/

Hey, you found it. Thank you! I’ll definitely read.

I scanned the speech quickly so perhaps I missed it, but I didn’t see anything about govt spying on its citizens. Didn’t Whitehouse vote for telecom immunity?

It doesn’t matter what I’m doing here. The issue is whether, as Demi puts it, we’re a bunch of foul-mouthed PJ-wearing losers or if blogs – this one in particular – have any influence.

Building my snow fort and stacking up a supply of snowballs right now. I want to be ready when stuff starts flying!

Are you going to put it up as an oxdown diary? Let me know, cause if not, I’ll throw it up there.

Maybe instead of “leave the podium” we could go with a more dramatic: You’ve Been Vetoed!

Tom,

Having influence to block Kennedy does not = us supporting Gillibrand.

No one here advocated for the Blue Dog. To the contrary. So, our influence may not have extended far enough to prevent a Gillibrand appointment–if in fact she is appointed.

I’m waiting to see what PATERSON says. not someone who spoke to Paterson and may have an agenda of their own.

Sorry but gun control is one of those BS issues, We may see something on assault rifles but that is it. Freedom of choice isn’t going away. There are a lot of important things that need to be dealing with.

Let’s wait for the Governor of New York to speak. If Andrea Mitchell is the reporter on the original story, we have good reason to think she may be wrong.

Having influence to block Kennedy does not = us supporting Gillibrand

I also tried to explain that in my 44, but perhaps it is too complicated a story for some to understand.

What I’m saying is the knee-jerk reaction to Kennedy (IMO) made it easier for Paterson to make this pick. Of course no one advocated for Gillibrand, but the howls against Kennedy made Gillibrand more palatable to Paterson.

Paterson is clearly courting up-state voters with the pick, but in doing so he’s setting himself up for a nasty primary challenge.

I think you’re right. Do you remember what his reasoning was for voting against? Many folks want the administration to investigate and hold folks accountable. That in itself would make the speech interesting.

i dunno — i’ve read in Politico and other sources that she was Schumer’s fav — and wouldn’t he be key, considering he picks and chooses — and funds or doesn’t — Senate candidates?

Lots of hunting in Gillibrand’s district. Having residence in both city and hunting territory, I can assure you that the 2 sides do not understand each other. Hunters seem to think that any regulation of guns means that they’ll be forced to give up hunting. City dwellers seem to think that anyone owning a gun means that they’ll be shot on the street.

Bloomberg made an attempt to thread the needle by micro measures like getting cooperation from places where the guns on NYC streets come from, but Virginia shot him down.

In case somebody missed it Michael Bennet was sworn in as CO jr senator yesterday
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bennet

i don’t mean to conflate the 2 — i see it as independent of McCarthy entirely — Schumer wanted Gillibrand and not any of the others.

My memory of Whitehouse’s FISA vote is dim, so I remember whether he provided a reason.

make that don’t remember.

I was merely pointing out that McCarthy, whose husband was killed by gun violence has been a strong advocate of gun control. The only way real gun control will become a reality in the U.S is when prominent Republicans and conservatives become victims of gun violence.

Rudy Giuliani: “All Our Al-Qaeda Number Twos Will Kill You in Your Bed”
Jane’s upstairs

Tom, how would opposing Kennedy = making Gillibrand more palatable? You lost me there.

I could see it making Maloney more palatable. And Maloney provides a face save for Kenney.

I could see it making Brown from Buffalo more palatable. he’s a person of color. AND he represents a big block of upstate Dem votes.

But how does it make Gillibrand more palatable? She brings zero to the ticket except gender and the wrong kind of upstate geography. She doesn’t bring votes with her.

looks like Paterson was missing all the hoopla that Blago was receiving…..

Gun control or management is not just one issue. There is a urban issue and a rural issue but the gun advocates just roll it into one. I grew up guns, certified to teach gun safety at 13, my view all guns should be registered and limited to sport and hunting. NO ONE needs a 50cal gun or a AK57.

I happily kick in ten bucks a month, because FDL delivers breaking and accurate news about the political economy with a rare blend of accessibility and entertainment.

Jane almost always gets it right, she usually gets it first, and she doesn’t waste my time covering stuff that doesn’t matter.

When things get tough, as they did when everyone was pounding emptywheel and her to confirm that Fitz had indicted Rove, she and ew refused to buckle. The pressure, however, was enormous, because at the time, this was a one-issue blog, and everyone else claimed to have “sources.”

demi, feel free to put it on oxdown.

It’s not about Gillibrand or anyone else for that matter, it’s about putting Kennedy in a hole right off the bat. She had some real weight behind her at the beginning, and Paterson may have had no choice had it not been for the howling about “dynasties” and a perceived lack of experience.

The unfortunate result is Gillibrand. We can argue all day long about the other possible choices, but it all begins with the short-sighted (again, IMO) reaction against Kennedy

Kennedy’s “heavyweight” was the GOP Mayor of NYC. And if one is genuinely opposed to something (like inexperienced people getting critaclly important jobs solely b/c of who their paretns are), why keep quiet about it?

like inexperienced people getting critaclly important jobs solely b/c of who their parents are

This is precisely where we differ. IMO, Kennedy would have been a better Senator than any of the other possibilites because of her connections. You see it as a weakness, I see it as a strength. Connections and influence are the life blood of politics, and Kennedy’s possession of both more than made up for her perceived lack of experience.

gillibrand is the rep for the district just north of me, (i have the illustrious left of center maurice hinchey), but we hear things down here.

meet the new, (blue dog), boss – same as the old, (blue dog), boss.

(i hear there are some temperment similarities too – which will probably serve her well as senator.)

personally, even though i’m not in her district, i’ve been a big mahoney fan both for why/how she originally ran for congress, (i was living in nyc then), as well as what she’s done while in congress.

so unless gillibrand does something awesome over the next 2 years – i will be working for carolyn mahoney for senator here in the hudson valley if she decides to run.

even though i supported the liberal, tasini, when he ran against hillary in her last bid for senate, i’m not totally anti blue dog hillary & i have high hopes for her as SOS

I absolutely agree. Did you see NY1? Dominic Carter said that it may not be Gillebrand because the progressives are going nuts. McCarthy will not be the only one to primary her up. I’m thinking Maloney will go at her and Maloney knows how to get elected.

I think you mean Caroline Maloney, not Mahoney.

Don’t know if she’s planning a primary, but Caroline McCarthy, fromLI has threatened to do one

Why does that not surprise me? Schumer, that is. Progressives are looking for a candidate to primary him up. Would be nice. Maybe Patterson will get religion and back off the appointment.

Did. But, I told everyone that YOU found it. :)

Lee, you got a link for that, cause I can’t find it on NY1’s website.

yes, yes – sorry – my bad!

Considering my satus as FDL residentr queen of typos, believe me, I understand.

you said “Kennedy would have been a better Senator than any of the other possibilites because of her connections. You see it as a weakness, I see it as a strength. Connections and influence are the life blood of politics, and Kennedy’s possession of both more than made up for her perceived lack of experience.”

sorry. i lost you there. jane disagreed (and so do i). you’re implying jane wasn’t supposed to say she questioned kennedy’s credentials ‘cos that’s what led them to appoint another person with NRA and rethug “connections”. gillibrand’s dad is highly plugged into the Republican party.

if that’s the logic, we shouldn’t be criticising some of obama’s appointments because we may get someone worse. taking it further, folks shouldn’t object to anything at all, ‘cos who knows what we may get in the end??

Gillibrand’s dad is Al D’Amoto’s creature.

This is just such a bad idea. I really am dying to know Paterson’s reasons for this

You’re not getting it. Kennedy, from the outset, had the potential to be a highly influential and reliably liberal (if not progressive) voice in the Senate, more so than any other potential candidate. I personally don’t think anyone can seriously deny that.

I understand questioning her credentials – honestly, I do. But you have to think longer-term, beyond the “her daddy was President and she hasn’t done a thing” line of thought. As I stated above, Paterson may have had NO choice but to appoint her, but the ferocity with which Jane and Kos attacked Kennedy essentially helped “put the gun” in Paterson’s hands.

The Hill agrees with me that picking Gillibrand will cause a food fight.

http://thehill.com/leading-the…..01-23.html

Yeah, but it didn’t put a Gillibrand gun in his hands.

Plus, I don’t know that Kennedy would have been a reliably liberal vote. I have no clue how she would have voted, because she has no voting record.

IIRC Jane wasn’t opposed to CK as a person, she was opposed to entitlement being the biggest qualification. Having face to face experience with the electorate, the work ethic to do the job, and the ability to get elected to the seat, those were the qualifications I remember Jane asking for. CK may have those qualities, but she hasn’t demonstrated them.

I don’t think anybody here was opposed to Kennedy as a person. She is reported to be a lovely, well mannered woman. It was the resume that was the problem and birthright being the creteria.

LHP – the fact that he had the option is what’s at play here.

As for her lack of a voting record, look at the causes she’s been involved with – do you really think she’d pull a Lieberman and run the other way?

Tasini maybe? I proudly voted for him against Clinton in the primaries.

(i used to think Quinn would run, but the term-limits horror put her on my shit list)

And another thing… :)

Kennedy was on Obama’s VP selection team; she endorsed Obama early on in the primaries; she’d likely have a batphone installed in her office. I mean come on – whe wouldn’t be reliable Dem vote?

I can’t wait to vote Cuomo for governor against Paterson!

(i wonder if they’ll stop him from challenging tho?)

I hope that the next time you go to the hospital, you get treated by someone whose dad was a really great doctor.

Yeah, because Senators perform surgery.

Talk about stealing (stupid) lines…

Don’t mean to disagree, but, um I think Lisa D. get’s that distinction. But, I love what each of you have to say.

You make a specialty of missing the point, don’t you? The only thing CK had to recommend her for the slot over and above several hundred other perfectly lovely New Yorkers was her name. If her name was Caroline Moore, she’d never have been discussed.

And that’s fucking evil any way you try to justify it.

so george bush was a great candidate for president ‘cos his daddy was one.

Do you by any chance remember how the GOP has viewed and attacked Ted Kennedy over the years? That isn’t just because of Mary Jo Kopechne and Chappaquiddick. They hate the Kennedys every last one of them and CK would be scrutinized and assaulted with gusto by Rethugs looking for news items about themselves.

Kennedy would be a distraction and I don’t think she’d be a particularly strong voice although I am disgusted by the thought of Gillibrand representing my state. I would vote for Mahoney in a heartbeat.

I’m talking politics and you’re talking Happy Unicorn Candycane Land.

Gillibrand, or any other candidate you’d like to name, will wield absolutely zero influence in the Senate or with the administration. That’s the bottom line.

What’s more, the choice of Gillibrand is an absolute disaster for NY dems. The House seat probably goes back to the GOP, which throws a lifeline to a NY GOP that was all but dead, all so Paterson can shore up his support upstate. Gillibrand will almost certainly be primaried, adding MORE unnecessary drama to the proceedings.

correction

i meant i would be working for caroline mccarthy if she challenged in 2 years.

getting lost in the carolyn/caroline “mc”’s

Does Michael Moore have a daughter named Caroline?

Gillibrand has run for office and won the election and has the experience to be appointed. She does not have the name recognition of a Kennedy but that seems to be a good thing. Would I vote for her, hell no.

NEW YORK TIMES reports that Gillibrand’s office confirms that she has accepted the Senate seat:

Put on the asbestos underwear, Jane, you’re about get elventy-billion heavily sarcastic “thanks, jane” posts and e-mails.

lol

You fail at Kennedy historical references.

No, I’m talking about preservation of democratic institutions and you’re a fucking monarchist.

They just announced on MSNBC that both Clinton and Schumer wanted our new “blue dog” Democrat for the senate seat. Great.

Yeah, you got me – I’m a fucking monarchist…

Meanwhile, Giuliani is probably salivating at the prospect of long divisive Dem primary next cycle.

Oh, please.

Of course they did, and for precisely the reasons Kennedy would have been a good choice – they don’t want to share power with a junior Senator.

They’re on tv right now — Paterson’s surrounded by like 100 people (lots of state bigshots)

King (long island Rep) is too — he wants the Senate Seat, and will run for sure.

I would have preferred Cuomo.

How is it that Blago (Gov. of IL) who is admittedly under a great deal of legal, policial, and media, scrutiny for allegedly behaving badly, managed to get a Senate replacement (no matter how odd Mr. Burris is) in a timely manner and Gov. Patterson who had NO real pressure (comparatively) to select a Senate replacement was unable to do so? In addition, doesn’t it seem odd that all the people who came out for Obama instead of Hilary tanked? Admittedly, Richardson wasn’t the best choice but it seemed that he got nailed pretty quickly and the scrutiny that Caroline came under became significant rather quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hilary had her ‘hands’ all over this. Finally, had Patterson selected Caroline or another qualified REAL Democrat early perhaps the hurricane that ensued wouldn’t have been given an opportunity to grow bigger? This is a sh#*storm that HE helped cultivate and I’ll be happy to see him go as a result come election season.

Gillibrand’s reciting standard stimulus laundry list — highspeed rail, healthcare it, small business, alternative energy, etc.

Kos taking a beating for the same reasons I’ve enumerated here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..434/688069

Umm, how was Patterson’s appointment in any way untimely? HRC didn’t resign her Senate seat until she was confirmed as SecState, and that just happened this week.

As far as I’m concerned Jane has some explaining to do about her abhorrent articles about Caroline Kennedy. I have zero tolerance for women who trash other woman for no apparent reason, and I’m sorry but she appears to have had ulterior motives. People talk about Kennedy worship on here, but the amount of Jane worship is far more ridiculous. Jane does not deserve to be worshipped for trashing a woman who at least deserved respect, regardless of what your opinion of her qualifications was. I don’t like bullies, Jane can speak out on the highly suspicious way she acted and apologize for the fact that the people in NY got a raw deal or she deserves every ounce of anger towards her. She did not help the situation and she made us look like fools.

Yes very good job repeating what Jane said. Once again an example of how much blind Jane Hamsher loyalty there is on this site. If the problem was the fact that Caroline was rich and priveleged, why wasn’t there more talk about how the whole senate appears to be plagued with that problem? I don’t buy any of it. Sorry. None of the arguments make it clear to me why Jane repeatedly bashed Kennedy over the head on this site. And her comment about suicide watching yesterday was one of the grossest things I have ever seen. Don’t reply if you are just going to kiss her ass either.

Exactly what legitimate concerns did your heroine bring up? Her worries that Caroline was missing her manicure? :rolls eyes: