Just because Iraq splits apart, the surge was still a success, right?

The problem in Iraq has never been just the occupation (as senseless and disastrous as it was); instead, under the shadow of the occupation, there has been a multi-factional struggle for control of the country in which the U.S. was merely one important player. Even after we get voted off the island, that battle to to be the last survivor will continue.

The very first anti-war protests in 2002 were stating that this is exactly what was going to happen, whether we stayed 100 days or 100 years. The neocons wanted to rewrite history, not learn from it.

The surge was a success even if Iraq spontaneously combusts. Ditto the invasion.

U.S. military action cannot fail in Iraq; Iraq can only fail to live up to the opportunities created by U.S. military action. I think Cheney almost said that explicitly the other day.

Only if our neo nuts get the oil.

Interesting. This is what Biden proposed a couple of years ago…he was there a couple of weeks ago…Any connection?

The problem in Iraq has never been just the occupation (as senseless and disastrous as it was); instead, under the shadow of the occupation, there has been a multi-factional struggle for control of the country in which the U.S. was merely one important player. Even after we get voted off the island, that battle to to be the last survivor will continue.

and before our occupation, the problem in iraq was not just saddam hussein.

someday i hope we can learn to stop and consider the possibility that our planned intervention – whatever we call it: liberation, regime change or even humanitarian – might make things much, much worse.

The de-unification of Iraq:
Turkey busts our buds the Kurds
Iran and Southern Iraq dance together
Central Iraq becomes heats up from no resouces and the Sunni nation pas the ammunition Sigh

Unintended consequences

Yep. Biden’s plan. I have to say that while I recognize that partition is extremely problematic, I do have a soft spot for the Kurds (for the same reason I have a soft spot for Armenians, Kosovans, Tibetans, Taiwanese and Nunavutans), and I kind of like the idea that they get a country. Self-determination is not necessarily a bad thing when everyone in the region’s made a centuries-old sport of playing genocidal slam ball with your people.

Look, I understand why partition is extremely problematic, especially with respect to the neighbors (Turks etc), and why it would never really work, but still, there is a small part of me that has a soft spot for the Kurds (for the same reason I have a soft spot for the Kosovars, Tibetans, Eritreans, Taiwanese and Nunavutans). Perhaps a shot at self-determination is not necessarily a bad thing for a people that, by accident of geography, is everyone’s favorite object of, well, genocide.

bbl

The Brits tried and failed we failed…maybe the region could work it all out left alone…except we want their resources cause we hooked on big oil

I had the same thought when I read the AP story, but I think it’s just a coincidence. SIIC has been pushing for this for years, laying the groundwork (e.g., building a new airport in Najaf).

What’s curious to me is that Grand Ayatollah Sistani, who could probably stifle the federalism movement with a single statement, has kept silent. SIIC is supposed to be in tight with him, but the single politician supposedly closest to Sistani (Shahristani, who is now the oil minister) has apparently joined Maliki’s party.

This is a community.

Everyone here feels connected to everyone else.

I was just thinking the same thing. Betwixt my musings over Iraq, possible LLN music and what’s for supper. *s*

The very first anti-war protests in 2002 were stating that this is exactly what was going to happen, whether we stayed 100 days or 100 years. The neocons wanted to rewrite history, not learn from it.

well, i can’t say i was thinking this as early as 2002 – only that it would be a disaster for both iraqis and us. but you’ve got be going back and looking at pictures i took at some of the many pre war protests, and i’m impressed by the foresight in both the signage (i see one that says “rome fell”) and the puppets.

Unintended consequences

only because we don’t listen to the dirty fucking hippies. i hope i’ve learned to pay attention to the folks on the street – even if i’m not one of them.

The neocons wanted to rewrite history, not learn from it.

The Bush administration has always had a contempt for history. Part of it was that they were drunk on the strong elixir of American exceptionalism: ‘We’re different! This war is different! Our enemies are different! We don’t need your F***king history! While you’re busy writing about history, we’re busy making history!’

Of course, this kind of exceptionalism is convenient: It means you don’t ever really have to learn all that history, because its all irrelevant anyway. A form of intellectual laziness, I suppose.

Bob in HI

only because we don’t listen to the dirty fucking hippies historians.

Fixed it for you.

Bob in HI

i’d say “them too,” but i’m pretty sure there’s quite a bit of overlap. *g*

What the ISCI position reflects is the lack of a political settlement. The raison d’être of the surge was to produce such a settlement. It obviously didn’t. The surge like the Paulson bailout simply kicked the can down the road to the next Presidency. As for Obama, I am concerned that he is already backpedaling on getting out of Iraq. Yes, he will draw down troops slowly but it looks like he would like to keep 30,000-50,000 in the country.

Is Iraq Iran yet?

To your point, in musical parody: “PARTITION!”, a parody of “Tradition”. From the VERSUS Bush Era Retrospective, running through the inauguration.

It’s $$$$$$$$.