Yesterday’s announcement by Judge Crawford is not the first time US military officials have called out the Bush Administration over torture of detainees. The prosecutor of Mohamed Jawad resigned over it, saying that Jawad was innocent. Yep innocent.
The prosecutor who stepped down in protest, Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld, had complained [4] that the government hadn’t given the defense all "potentially exculpatory evidence."
-snip-
But little-noted in the news of the dismissals was the fact that the Pentagon did not dismiss charges against the one detainee who Vandeveld had suggested was essentially innocent [4].
Before his resignation, Vandeveld had been scheduled to prosecute the case of Mohamed Jawad [7], who was captured as a teenager in Afghanistan after allegedly throwing a grenade at U.S. soldiers in late 2002. In an affidavit explaining why he was leaving the prosecutor’s office, Vandeveld stated that he had seen evidence supporting the defense’s assertions that Jawad was a child soldier and had been "duped" by an Afghan guerrilla group who forced him to fight against U.S. troops [4] and potentially drugged him. From Vandeveld’s affidavit [4]:
My view of the case has evolved over time. I now accept that Jawad was under the age of eighteen when apprehended, I suspect that he was duped by Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin into joining the organization, and it seems plausible to me that Jawad may have been drugged before the alleged attack on 17 December 2002. I base these judgments on the evidence collected at the time, and not because of any sympathy for Mr. Jawad himself, whom I do not know and have only seen during Commission proceedings.
A military judge in the case also concluded [8] (PDF) last month that Jawad had been abused at Gitmo. Among other interrogation techniques, Jawad had been subjected to what was known as the "frequent flyer" program. In one two-week period, Jawad was moved from cell to cell 112 times [9].
Last night on Countdown, Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift asked why the US was still appealing this decision and whether the new administration was going to repudiate torture with more than mere words.
Just something for the Senate Judiciary to think about while questioning Mr. Holder today. While they’re at it, they may also want to ponder the excellent questions Professor Turley raised last night about coming out clearly to say that DOJ will investigate and prosecute torture and war crimes.
I know, I know, Holder will say that he cannot comment on a specific pending case. I did not just fall off the turnip truck. However, he can issue a broad and binding statement of general policy, such as the incoming administration has recently done with regard to "don’t ask, don’t tell" and closing Gitmo.
Twenty-sixth in a series on torture and the law.
[Editor's note: The photo by takomabibelot features a banner created and designed by Firedoglake reader BonnieT of Austin, Texas, where she operates OpposeTorture.org.]
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

you can continue to use this as a Holder hearing open thread
Thank you for this, loosehead.
Holder taking issue with the House report that criticized how he handled the Rich pardon.
He is getting testy already. First non-softball question he got and he is losing his cool.
Holder HAD to know these questions were coming. Who murder boarded this guy? If I had witness on the stand, and that witness hesitated and stumbled this way ver question we KNEW were coming, I would consider my witness prep to have been a failure.
He had weeks to think through his answers to this and could even have written them out on flash cards.
Why isn’t he ready for this?
thanks, loosehead.
:)
Why is Holder giving cover to Shrub
“decisions made by prior administration were difficult” my ass!
Crossing a bright line into torture was not difficult, it was no brainer.
You don’t cross the line, EVER!
Fucking basketball question form Kohl!
What an insult to the process.
Not “wise” to beat President in Basketball.
So, you admit you will cheat to lose rather than speak/play honestly.
Yeah, but we should expect you to have learned to speak truth to power?
You just told us how much you have NOT learned from your Marc Rich mistake!
Kyle says he wants to talk about DNA, but really he wants to talk about immigrants
I thought I was the only one thinking that. NONE of the questions should have been a shock.
I naturally suspect ANYTHING holder says or does, but I can’t see any political advantage to looking unprepared.
Boxturtle (Obama is entitled to his own team, but I’d sure have picked someone other than Holder)
TX for doing this LHP et al. Still in hospital, where catching up is hard to do. Kick tushies!!!
Breathe deeply…as a lawyer you should know that acrimony is for the clients, not the law. I know my lawyer said what I wanted to hear in court and then had lunch, at my expense, with opposing counsel.
“Why isn’t he ready for this?”
Perhaps, because he is a politician, he feels entitled to be excused from answering ANYTHING he does not wish to answer, plus as a successful and sought after attorney (who can help people, the ‘right’ people, get away with murder), his sensibilities suggest that only common people need ever answer for or ’splain’ anything.
Besides, this is all ‘water under the bridge’ and, HEY! we’re lookin’ ‘forward’ not backward …
Oh yes he’s thought about ‘this’ quite a good bit … and he just gets pissed and more pissed (bet his rants about ‘this’ are something to behold), his bile rises’ and the fundamental unfairness of anyone questioning him really rankles. (They don’t, ever, question anybody in ‘polite society’, you realize. After eight years, is this not plain?)
Just got back. Headline on msnbc.com sez Holder said that waterboarding is torture. Is the headline accurate?
So proud of my senator Kyl…..Kyl I want to destroy Habeas corpus, take down the 10 amendments one right at a time making shit up stuff……. He is one of the most radical winger ……. nativist right along with Sheriff Joe….
I hate to say it, given my respect for you, but I think you are getting a bit carried away.
YUP
Moving someone from cell to cell too many times is torture? Wait a minute- I think I want off this train!
Apparently this kid DID toss a grenade at a US Soldier- but he’s innocent cause he was duped into it?
Throwing grenades at occupation soldiers is probably not considered criminal by those being occupied, but it certainly is by occupiers.
Read Marcy’s comment thread, real time comments to Holder’s responses to SJC questions.
Yup. No headging on it, either. Actual quotes are in the prior thread.
Boxturtle (we’ll see how he puts that statement into operation)
Feeling better? And how did you get intertoobz in hosp? I was in hosp a couple years ago (got hit by a car) and went crazy w/o my toobz
He said it more than once…… and also other techniques could be considered torture… AND we do not torture
yep
Yes, and I gave him props for that in Marcy’s thread.
Thanks & to Helen too. Off for more errands, so will read later.
I had wireless internet when I was in Nov and Dec last year. Would sit up in bed and chat with everyone here…. :)
Epu’ed
Why did Holder not commit to making public OLC opinions?
And what was up with his statement that he would prohibit abusive interrogation techniques IF they did not produce good intelligence? Is this really his principal criterion for evaluation? Doesn’t he know that torture doesn’t work? Would he back its use if he thought good intelligence could be gotten from it? Isn’t that essentially the Bush position?
I thought the whole bucnch of them laughhing about that was just Bletway wink wink nod nod, we all know I ‘m craven, but you don’t have the votes so, nah, nah, nuh nah nah
actually, while i thought the whole basketball riff was funny, that part sounded a really sour note.
Thanks for this, LHP.
Hi, Katymine and Pups.
FunnyDiva
Is that it? Is it done?
So what does everyone think? Will Holder be confirmed?
They voted on HRC to be confirmed vote 16-1 with Vitter the no…… that really makes me laugh…..
moving him from cell to cell was designed to wake him up and prevent REM sleep.
If I wake my kid for school just by calling her or shaking her shoulder, she just turns over and goes back to sleep–she never fully wakes up.
If I make her sit up and put her feet on the groaund, I have a fighting chane that she will start getting ready for school.
If I can get her to stand up and walk on the first try )almost never happens) she if AWAKE and it would take some time for her to egt back to sleep.
Same concept. they wake him up. Make him walk around for a while. out him in another cell.
Wait until he falls alseep, wake him up, wlk him around for a while, put him in another cell.
They did it for 40smethig days out 50 soemthig days.
Severe sleep deprivation can kill you.
He was well prepared for that question.
Over at Armed Services committee today, other nominees are using nearly identical language.
This is clearly concrete admin policy.
Yippee!
There was never any doubt.
Boxturtle (Still thinks Holder is part of the ending campaign deal)
Forever to be known as “Diaper Dave”
Of course he will be confirmed. But does anyone really think he has the weight to resurrect and reprofessionalize the DOJ? Because to me, he’s coming off as more of a midlevel manager, not a policymaker or leader.
48 of 54 days, iirc.
Severe sleep deprivation can also make you insane.
FunnyD
Oh, now, Hugh, don’t be such a cyinc! I’m sure it’s all part of PEBO’s Master Plan (TM) to put the Bush appointees off-balance…(/s)
Or something.
I’ll be delighted if you’re wrong…
FunnyD
Defending ones country makes you the worst of the worst?
-G
112 moves in 14 days is 8 moves per day-one every three hours if evenly spaced…REM sleep comes early in the sleep cycle doesn’t it? I’m afraid I still don’t see torture here.
Well I would defend my country in that way- but I would expect to be killed if caught.
That leaves no real time for interrogations. Or any other activites.
Obama is the Master of Understatement, perhaps Holder is taking his cue from the Master…
LHP is correct, sleep deprivation on that scale can kill. And it likely wean’t regular moves. Likely, they waited for the physical sign of rem sleep to begin, then woke him to move him. A slow death, knowing detah is coming is torture by any defination. I’m sure he was well informed (and at frequent intervals), what the end result would be.
Besides, would that be legal in ANY American jail or prison?
Boxturtle (We’ve moved beyond thumbscrews, torture is now based on science)
I don’t think they expected to get any good information. I think they enjoyed the torture. I’m sickened by not only what we have done to these people but what we have turned some of our own people into. We may live to regret it down the road.
The Afghanis have been fighting an occupying army for most of the past 30 years. Remember the Russians? Young men were likely expected to be part of the resistance.
ding!
I think they asked him a couple of questions each time they moved him. If he responded, they asked more questions until he stopped.
Early on in the process, they likely only got the Arabic equivalent of FOAD so 30 seconds or so of questioning sufficied.
Boxturtle (Animals)
Is Holder qualified to be AG?
your teenage annecdote is right on…some of these torture victims were 14 years old when these crimes were committed against them! rwcole- You tell me what kind of person would torture a 14 year old kid? A sociopath pervert… and those military people are coming home to live in our neighborhoods.
Put that up at OxDown
And this ws done to a child who was still growing. I have no clue what that means to his permanent health
He’s a lawyer rated “Highly Qualified” by the bar association, he’s Obama’s pick, and he’s breathing.
Boxturtle (Unaware of any other requirements for the position)
you should be afraid…ask someone to do to you
Qualified by training and experience? Maybe, in a normal functioning DOJ with a strong corps of career attorney’s still there? Probably.
Qualified by character, not evah.
Qualified to reconstitute a broken mangled DOJ,with a HUGE loss of institutional memory and ethical traditions in tatters? not even close
Does anyone have access to objective information that shows that moving someone eight times per day can kill them and that it legally constitutes torture?
I’m certainly no expert on the subjec, but it seems unlikely.
I think we already regret it, but I can’t agree with you that the torture was done for entertainment purposes. It might have been some childish revenge for 9/11. I don’t support torture but to say they enjoyed it, is a stretch for me. Unless it’s discussed in the context of a psychological inspection of our national response to the big attack on NY & DC.
i understand his answer just now on whether or not he will pursue the schlossman (sp?) decision.
if he gives away too much now – he’s guaranteeing a pardon for brad
Remember the Stanford experiment? It’s amazing what people will do just because they can.
Expounding on his interprettio of Youngstown Steel.
It was the aggregate of things done to him. You sound like Duncan Hunter telling us how wonderful the detainees rice pilaf tasted.
The exposed him to temperature varieties, vebal abuse, didn’t allow him to sleep for months on end, blows to the stomach, sensory deprivation, repeated threats.
Knock it off with the not letting him take a nap stuff.
It’s how they turned that Padilla into a vegetable.
It’s torture, knock it off.
-G
Yes, I do. And, yes it is amazing.
I was asking for some objective evidence. There were already plenty of opinions on the subject.
And add to all that that this was a kid, not some hardened operative.
It’s not just moving the kid. As the judge said yesterday and as others, including the guy who was supposed to prosecute the kid and who resigned in protest–it’s not one single thing.
It’s the cumulative effect of many things. Death by a thousand small cuts, is still death. A slow death of prolonged suffering.
And yes, I almost wound up in the hosp myself when Littelprop was a baby. She had colic and rarely slept more than two hours at a stretch unless you walked with her. I was walking all night so mr prop could get enough sleep to go to work, and then only getting a couple hours at a clip during the day.
Wound up really sick. My mother had to take care of me. Or else Dr was gonna put me in hosp.
Fucks up your blood pressure, your heart rate.
Holder said he is likely to respect telecom immunity.
Sorry for jumping on your butt. It is one part of a brutal regime. If you isolate it, it sounds like what the torture apologists used to describe water boarding—-a little water on the face.
When put in context it is Naziesque abuse.
-G
Rwcole,
The did this to a CHILD
I cannot believe that you condone child abuse.
Sure moving people eight times a day is no poblem.
When I was a university student (long ago) there were days when eight ‘moves’ were common.
The only time it was unpleasant in the extreme was when I’d not had any sleep for a while (those were the daze, remember?) and was trying to ‘catch’ a short (and respectful) nap during each class.
Gotta admit, there were times when being rudely awakened, time after time, was a bit like torture though …
Actually, rw, the above story is fiction, but prolonged sleep deprivation, not ‘moves’ per se, is what can cause severe ‘complications’, even, it is alledged by those who might know, the permanent ‘complication’ generally known and universally experienced as … ‘death’.
How long can a human being’s health hold up to sleep deprivation?
How long could any of us function, or even ’survive’ without genuine, restful sleep?
The real propblem is that we have chosen to view others as being less than human.
Fom wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…..on#Torture
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..9721.shtml
All though it varies by age and individual, we have a series of sleep cycles during the course of a night where we enter various levels of REM and non-REM sleep. When these are disrupted, there are both physiological and psychological sequelae. Memory and attention degrades. Stress levels increase. Do this long enough and you can induce psychosis and death.
rwcole This is from the Torture is Unamerican website, and I quote:
Sleep Deprivation
Causes a host of negative psychological effects, the most prominent is cognitive impairment.
Sleep-deprived individuals take longer to respond to stimuli and sleep loss causes attention deficits, decreases short-term memory, speech impairments, perseveration and inflexible thinking.
These symptoms may appear after one night of total sleep deprivation, after only a few nights of sleep restriction (5 hours of sleep per night).
Sleep restrictions can result in hypertension and other cardiovascular disease.
To learn more about the effects of psychological torture, read Break Them Down: Systematic use of Psychological Torture by U.S. Forces by Physicians for Human Rights. Emphasis mine
So waking the person every three hours to move them to a different cell would cause harm, physiological as well as psychological. And they did this to a child.
Sleep dep was a favored tactic of the KGB…so that’s the level we’ve sunk to at Bush’s command…
Brisingamen
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690
thank you for that hugh. i’ve pulled many all-nighters by choice (and even a few doubles and once went for 7 days w breaks for sleep no longer than 2.5hrs at a time) and been tired to the point of collapse, but that was just being tired which is nothing, absolutely nothing – either qualitatively or quantitatively – like being deprived of sleep involuntarily which i’ve only experienced a little bit with insomnia.
imo saying sleep deprivation isn’t torture is equivalent to saying waterboarding isn’t torture.
The same comparison can be made wrt food. I know people who’ve fasted for days and been in great spirits while suffering no adverse affects, because they chose fast as an act of Love.
However, people who are forcefully denied food for many days fall sick and even die.
This is torture and when done to children, is particularly heinous.
i don’t think it’s the same thing at all.
the thing about deciding not sleep is that one can sleep when one feels the need (vs the want). forced deprivation is about preventing it when it is absolutely needed.