zed

Yeah, because W has been soo right on everything, always; also.

Par for the course – this man is complete delusional to think anyone cares about his opinion, or has any doubt that he is one of the worst presidents we have ever had.

i’m just trying to imagine 4 or 8 years from now, and what obama might say in a farewell address. but i can’t reconcile my hopes with the path we seem to be on.

The Guardian is reporting:

Demands grow for Gaza war crimes investigation

Israel is facing growing demands from senior UN officials and human rights groups for an international war crimes investigation in Gaza over allegations such as the “reckless and indiscriminate” shelling of residential areas and use of Palestinian families as human shields by soldiers.

With the death toll from the 17-day Israeli assault on Gaza climbing above 900, pressure is increasing for an independent inquiry into specific incidents, such as the shelling of a UN school turned refugee centre where about 40 people died, as well as the question of whether the military tactics used by Israel systematically breached humanitarian law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..war-crimes

“The president also will defend his record, Perino said, but will show graciousness toward Obama and not attempt to revisit the old battles of his presidency.”

Sounds to me like a set up. I’ll be nice to you and you can return the favor by being nice to me by not prosecuting war crimes. After all we don’t want to revisit the “old battles” of the past. We must be gracious and forward thinking.

Obama will take the oath of office from a position of strength. A large majority of the American people are behind him and in the words of George Bush he has a lot of political capital to spend. So why in the world would Obama listen to the mealy mouthed, don’t make waves “centrists” about not prosecuting war crimes? Why would he allow himself to become complicit in the Bush torture regime? I just don’t understand it. I sure hope I get a better feeling about this when I watch the Holder confirmation hearing on Thursday.

or about the economy, or about foreign policy, or about education policy, or….

These last couple of months have been all about the history books. They’ve been on a massive PR offensive to make sure people, when they think of Shrub, will think, “Hmmm…have beer with…9/11…me likey the Chimp!!!”

Let’s just forget about all that other stuff. So far, I’d say they’re succeeding wildly when 95% of BigMedia is onboard, and “respected” “journalists” say stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7Pw67KL90
(this clip is so disgusting)

Next up? Several years of trying to name various things after this mass murderer. The next couple of generations of kids wil think that has was the man who saved America. Unless we continue to grow the New Media much more than what it is now, this will happen. Guaranteed.

Although…prosecuting them as war criminals would overcome the PR campaign, but yes, I’m not holding my breath.

My mum told me to say only nice things to people, so Noroc to him.

Having lived through Regan and now W – it’s not hard to understand how this nation is in the tank. Two idiots.

But they were voted for by tens of millions of Americans who believed the media swill or didn’t care or more frieghtening – think like these two dolts.

We are a nascar nation or beer drinking uneducated, bigots who swagger and think they own the world and couldn’t give a damn about anyone else but themselves.

Good morning, pups. It’s Bobo and Herbert today. Oh, give me strength. Today Bobo explains theology and the mystery of death. He gives us “In Defense of Death,” in which he gurgles that while most people might use the science of life to demystify death, the late theologian Richard John Neuhaus used death to mystify life. Mr. Herbert, in “Where the Money Is,” says a financial transactions tax, a small fee on the sale or transfer of stocks and bonds, would raise a ton of money that the government sorely needs.

Here they are.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got lemon poppy seed muffins just out of the oven. One more week. Only one more week. After having had a countdown sign on my office door for over 740 days I wonder what I’m going to replace it with… Have a great day.

Think there will be any people who bravely struggled through the last thirty years only to wind up bankrupt and broke, back in the labor force after being unable to retire thanks the Republican greed?

My fave part of the presser was Bush saying that he’ll request a release of the TARP funds if Obama asks him to. It reminded me of the movie “A Few Good Men” when Jack Nicholson tells Tom Cruise “you have to ask me nicely”.
Okay, that wasn’t my favorite part. It was really Bush defending his response to Katrina. Hard to spin that.

I already know people like that.

Joe ant Buchanan comparing Lincoln, Wilson and FDR with numbnuts becuase they locked up lots of people. And fuck all you with your moral reservations.

Did anyone see the pathetic article Michael Abramowitz of the Wash. Post wrote about the press conference? I swear the whole thing must have been written by the White house. Here is a sample:

“The tone of the news conference — the “ultimate exit interview,” as Bush jokingly called it — was in keeping with a stream of recent speeches and interviews that appeared to be aimed at setting the record straight after years of relentless pounding from critics in the media, the Democratic Party and elsewhere.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00617.html

You only missed the nattering of nabob. /s

Juan Cole reports that Olmert was bragging about being able to over-rule the US Sec of State with a single phone call.

Olmert:

“It transpired all of a sudden that a vote would be held in 10 minutes’ time. I tried to find President Bush, and I was told he was attending an event in Philadelphia.”
‘I know that if somebody tried to find me on the phone right now, it would have to be something unusual and extraordinary for them to say: Leave it all and go to some room to talk to me. In this case, I said: I don’t care, I have to talk to him right now.

He was taken off the podium and brought to a side room. I spoke with him; I told him: You can’t vote for this proposal.

He said: Listen, I don’t know, I didn’t see, don’t know what it says.

I told him: I know, and you can’t vote for it!

He then instructed the secretary of state, and she did not vote for it.

It was a proposal she had put together, one she formulated, one she organized, one she maneuvered. It left her rather embarrassed, abstaining in the vote on a proposal she herself had put together. That was why the French and the Brits said she had pulled a fast one on them, she having been the one to spur them to submit the proposals.” ‘

And who says Israel pulls the strings of our government like a puppet? The Prime Minister of Israel, that’s who!

I’m gagging my way through it right now; if there’s a hell, people like scar will be populating it.

Perino said, but will show graciousness toward Obama

That is just crass. Surprising she didn’t also mention he’d be articulate and display his signature poise and wit.

I’m shocked you feel that way, and so is Dramatic Prairie Dog!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjFxJVeCQs

(just kidding ya…I appreciate the things I often learn from your comments) I’m still feeling pretty good about things based upon how I’ve seen Obama operate so far, and despite some of the annoying shit he’s done.

A poll just had Obama more popular than Shrub right after 9/11. Repubs are lining up behind him on many key issues, including Ray LaHood (who told a bunch of Repubs at a fundraiser to lay off and support Obama) and Orrin Hatch, and others. I expected some of this, but so far he’s succeeding at the coalition-building beyond what I ever expected.

This is a great place to start from! He’s not even Prez yet, and I saw him say something recently about learning from Clinton’s experience and how Bill didn’t take this approach and was savaged immediately by Repub-owned BigMedia, and wasn’t able to get even the most minor Liberal proposals through. Then, 1994 mid-terms happened.

Look at the Rick Warren stuff for example. I have no doubt he gained a lot of support, or at least some good will which could turn into support, from people that didn’t vote for him by picking Warren. Now after things have calmed down, he names two Liberal pastors to speak as well, including a gay one who’ll be there with his partner. Also, he has a lesbian couple joining him on the whistlestop tour. So by doing all this along with adding some gay people to Admin positions, he’s just advanced LGBT causes (not a massive amount but certainly more than a Prez has done that I can remember), and he’s done it while gaining Repub support at the same time. He did stuff like this a lot during the campaign, and last I checked he won. In a landslide. And he’s melanin-enhanced. And he’s got a Muslim name. Wow.

It’s about getting shit done. You know, actually enacted and not just making statements. Obama didn’t make these dynamics in Warshington, but he has to work within them. I’ve still got Hope, but if after three months Obama doesn’t show he’s serious about changing things, my Hope will start fading, and if after two Friedman Units he isn’t showing any signs of Liberalism, well then I’ll be joining any efforts to find primary challengers. It’s up to us to keep the pressure on, but at the same time remaining positive. Negativity spreads like a cancer and becomes debilitating to even well-intentioned efforts, no matter how correct they may be.

Why would he allow himself to become complicit in the Bush torture regime? I just don’t understand it. I sure hope I get a better feeling about this when I watch the Holder confirmation hearing on Thursday.

Because, as the new CEO of corporate America, that is what he is contracted and has agreed to do. You don’t think for one minute that they would have put him in the job without him being told exactly what he was and was not allowed to do do you?

Bless his heart.

I keep trying to resist this kind of thinking and there you are making me do it again. I keep hoping that he will surprise me but instead he is doing exactly what I feared he would do. The thought of the delusional Bush and the arrogant, smug Cheney being able to ride off into the sunset untouched after they shredded the Constitution just sets my hair on fire.

Anybody know if there’s a transcript online?

LOL! not much would make me happier than to be greeted with rounds of “you were wrong about obama and i told you so”s every time i showed up here. really really want to be wrong.

Two thoughts. Did you see Jane’s post wondering why we don’t let Madoff off using the theory that we’re looking forward not back?
And secondly, Bush and Cheney have become downright bold about admitting to torture suggesting that they know they won’t be held accountable.

Well you may as well buy a fire extinguisher and a wig as you be certain that:

1/ The country is too busy right now
2/ Why bother with old news
3/ Investigation is off the table
4/ Bush has suffered enough
5/ All of the above.

Bush transcripts only come in pictures.

p.s. gotta take a bit of issue with you here:

It’s up to us to keep the pressure on, but at the same time remaining positive. Negativity spreads like a cancer and becomes debilitating to even well-intentioned efforts, no matter how correct they may be.

can’t be positive about torture, mass murder, dashed hopes unnecessary suffering and worse to come if we don’t get our shit together. not even going to try. i can be positive about a clear-eyed committed and engaged citizenry responding to the atrocities, but not the atrocities themselves. and just my personal response – there is probably nothing that depresses me more about our political situation than being told i must stay positive regardless of what is actually happening. that’s just crazy making.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..90112.html

As if we haven’t been punished enough.

Not for a second do I expect Obama not to piss me off. But I’ll be looking at the big picture. Take a look back at our previous presidents. Not even the best would have escaped my criticism on occasion. Think FDR. I literally cried while visiting his DC Memorial. Yet, if I were alive during his administration, there would have been plenty that I would have criticized.

Anybody know if there’s a transcript online?

your tax dollars at work: transcript, audio and video

Yes I did see Jane’s post. I also saw Obama’s weasily, nonsensical comments on ABC this past Sunday and the non-answer answer to the #1 question on his website about prosecutions. I just keep hoping that he’s doing this to make Bush think that he doesn’t need to issue pardons and then SMACK…right between the eyes. I realize that this probably won’t happen but whatever gets you through the day…eh?

Good Morning! Raven @ 16 is right in his analysis about Joe and Pat. The new theory according to them seems to be that Bush is great because his interrogation policies weren’t as bad as previous Presidents. While listening to them spout off I remembered the time when my children were younger and tried the same thing.

And don’t forget what Ruth Marcus said…Ruth isn’t concerned with prosecution…she thinks the most important thing is that it doesn’t happen again. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t think TPTB realize that we need these criminals to be prosecuted. And it pisses me off to no end that the little guys went to jail for torture while those that ordered it are free. Not to defend the AbuGhraib soldiers, you understand, but it’s always the bottom rung that pays the price when things go bad.

How Perfect: Bush WH Distorts Transcript of Final News Conference

i’m looking at the big picture too. maybe we’re just seeing something different? because while i expect to disagree with every politician from time to time (hell, there’s no one here at fdl i agree with all the time. actually, i probably even disagree with myself from just last week. *g*) and i expected to disagree with obama a lot… i did expect to have more to agree with. i expected some neoliberal economic shit – but i also expected better, far better than dennis ross as mideast czar (or clinton as sos). all the surprises have been on the down side so far.

OFCS

wow. thank you for that link.

assholes (and i don’t mean just bush).

Sure would be nice to see Obama pull what Grant did to Johnson…he went against precedent and refused to ride to the inauguration in the same carriage as Johnson who he detested. Johnson spent the time back at the White House until the ceremony was over.

I don’t wanna see this traitor anywhere near the ceremony.

Raven, if you are still here, what do you think about the new policies they are putting in place in GA to increase class sizes? A friend’s husband is on an advisory committee and she tried to justify the new policies.

it’s a big week for nomination hearings – 5 just today. and also a hearing on the TARP. can’t decide which hearing to write an oxdown diary on. any chance if i post summary info from the weekly list readers will use that to write their own diaries on the hearings?

Yup. What ticks me off too is that the Bush/Cheney apologists will be able to continue to claim that Bush did nothing wrong because no one in the government or media will hold them accountable.

Grrrrrr…I’m watching the CBS Morning show and they are interviewing Dan Bartlett and about Bush. These are the words that appear on the screen.

Bush’s final face-off
Candid look at past 8 years.

Candid? You’ve got to be kidding me.

here’s what’s going on;

this president along with all republicans have learned that if they say something with conviction then there are people who believe it

and those who don’t believe it are led to believe there is a debate over thte issue

this president will go on and on about what a great job he did so that when someone sites reality the republican can make believe it is not concluded it is simply opinion and debate

ah me

thanks.

After all “no one could have predicted”.

it’s a great link and really well written, I wish he added one thing to the following, italics were added by me;

When I heard that live, I thought: This is the perfect summation of his presidency, that “I generally mean what I say.” Sure, generally, which is to say that Bush means what he says maybe, what, 70, 80 percent of the time that he speaks? Less? Certainly not when he told the nation the already-disproved notion that Iraq was buying uranium in Africa, or that there were ties between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, or that a country with no active weapons program could create “a mushroom cloud,” or when he said he would fire anyone who leaked Valerie Plame’s identity, or when he said that America doesn’t spy without warrants, or when he said “we don’t torture” or….Well, you get the picture.

Oh my..

don’t we wish *g*

How Perfect: Bush WH Distorts Transcript of Final News Conference

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying Youtoobz?

Well, it can’t do anything but hurt but with the goobers under the gold dome it’s “only the beginning”!

Don’t forget to vote for Juan Cole in the Weblog competition

http://2008.weblogawards.org/p…..rica-blog/

Credit where credit is due:

Obama Shelves Jobs-Credit Proposal

Of course, the craptastic subheader is

Democrats Said $3,000 Tax Incentive Could Be Abused by Business

as opposed to

Many Economists Said $3,000 Tax Incentive Could Be Abused by Business

…being told i must stay positive regardless of what is actually happening.

Obviously, torture, mass murder, etc. are not things to be positive about, and the negative feelings toward these things can be what motivates action. I was addressing a common sentiment that I see around the comments sections here nowadaze similar to this that you said upthread:

…but i can’t reconcile my hopes with the path we seem to be on.

Kind of a buzzkill I’d say. I mean really, is this not the sort of comment that dominates these threads now? I’ve simply wanted more of a focus on what to do in order to change “the path we seem to be on,” rather than explaining over and over again what the problems are. I get it. Things are fucked up. Moving on. Action. What are we gonna do about and what’s gonna be most effective to change it. Positive. It’s a subtle tweak in thinking, but incredibly powerful. That’s what I’m more interested, personally. There’s no shortage of books about this topic.

The other thing about this is that most here are correct in my opinion, including you. I want more of the general public to listen to folks here, so I want the audience to be much bigger here. However, I’ve sent many friends here only to have them report back that all they saw was “a bunch of complainers.” The very Liberal person who said that to me is a community organizer that is out in the trenches everyday working to change that wayward path we’re on. Everthing we’re “negative” about would have a much better chance of being changed if we had a much larger force actively working for that change. I think we’re losing some folks.

Most revolutionaries are “positive.” They think what they’re doing is going to change things, even though they’re pissed as hell at the same time. All I’m trying to get at.

Don’t take my word for it…how about John Adams:

I am well aware of the Toil and Blood and Treasure, that it will cost Us to maintain this Declaration, and support and defend these States. Yet through all the Gloom I can see the Rays of ravishing Light and Glory.

Hell yeah. Where do I sign up?!?

Of course, maybe we should send this Adams quote to Obama en masse:

I agree with you that in politics the middle way is none at all.

I just changed the channel to MSNBC and heard Joe Scarborough say to David Gregory…when you were White house press secretary … I mean White house correspondent…lol I think he got it right the first time.

good luck

I loved how George opened his press conference with a big fat lie: HE’S ALWAYS RESPECTED THE PRESS CORPS.

Bah hahahahaha! Oh please, Delusional One! We’re tired of ya. Goodbye George….and let the door hitcha where the good lawd splitcha!

Freud would smile no doubt

UN watchdog condemns war on Gaza

A resolution condemning Israel’s military offensive in Gaza has been adopted by the UN Human Rights Council.

The non-binding resolution, approved in Geneva on Monday, said Israel’s operation had “resulted in massive violations of human rights of the Palestinian people”.

More than 935 Palestinians have died during the fighting, many of them women and children, and a further 4,300 have been wounded.

At least 25,000 have been displaced due to the ongoing bombardment, but are unable to flee the overcrowded territory as crossing points remain closed.

http://english.aljazeera.net/n…..83968.html

you wonder what was on bush’s mind not to call on helen, he could have had a genuine moment with;

“helen, I have to call on you but I sure hope on my last press conferance you don’t beat me up too bad”

bing, bush wins

instead he ignores her and bush loses

but that’s what losers do, they lose

I’ve always wished for a spot where congress is live-blogged continually. Doesn’t matter who’s watching what. Whatever is being broadcast gets live-blogged. Being at work 9-5, it’s what I look for as an update. Can’t comment, of course, to thank the bloggers, but I catch a quick update when I can. I wish that were a permanent site here at FDL.
So, anything you contribute is much appreciated.

Good Grief…Bush is like the houseguest that doesn’t know when to graciously leave. The worst.president.ever.

To Selise at 4: ((hugs)) I hear ya.

Yep, epu-ed. Heard a flashback of Doris Kearns Goodwin on Imus this morning. Her framing: look forward…this from a historian! Framed investigations as being “vindictive.”

This is what we’re dealing with, folks. Honor? Finding out the truth so an precedent used to rationalize future worser isn’t alowed to stand? Not so much.

Doris the Plagiarist has spoken.

The media always goes for the partisan gotcha. Facts, reality? That takes the fun out of it. They function like pro wrestlers.

warning, rant to follow:

Kind of a buzzkill I’d say. I mean really, is this not the sort of comment that dominates these threads now?

i don’t recall complaints about years of comments saying that we were on an even worse path with bush. so i don’t think the problem is what you say it is.

I’ve simply wanted more of a focus on what to do in order to change “the path we seem to be on,” rather than explaining over and over again what the problems are. I get it.

plenty of comment space. you can change the focus by writing about what you are doing to change the path we’re on and asking for help.

Moving on. Action. What are we gonna do about and what’s gonna be most effective to change it. Positive. It’s a subtle tweak in thinking, but incredibly powerful. That’s what I’m more interested, personally. There’s no shortage of books about this topic.

this morning i just updated a weekly list of hearings – been doing it more often than not for over two years because scarecrow asked me to. now i’m trying to figure out what what to post about one of the hearings at oxdown because ari asked me to.

yesterday i attended a vigil for peace for gaza and all of the ME. then i went to my representatives office to lobby for him to change his position on israel/palestine.

so here i am complaining about obama and you’re complaining about my lack of action. can you please try to see how demoralizing that is? i don’t want to start skipping your comments, but i’m going to if it’s going to be about my lack of action and what pop psychology i’m supposed to subscribe to. what it seems to me is that all complaining is ok with you – about republicans, about your fellow commenters – but not obama.

if you want me to be responsible for telling you what to do that will be effective and to help you feel positive about obama, i’m not signing up for that.

LOL. you crack me up when you make comments about other people’s bad attitude. pot kettle black.

Swim’s upstairs and we’re lurking for you.

solai, i think that’s a great idea. i kinda suck at live blogging (well, everyone does compared to marcy) and it isn’t every that i listen to hearings so intently that i can live blog. will think about what might be done to at least do something once in a while, especially if you are not the only person who’s interested. if you want to pursue this idea, please remind me in a day or two… after i’ve given it some thought. thanks.

Ever since solai brought this up months ago I’ve been trying to figure out a way to prod YouTube, et al to add captions. With all the software geniuses floating around out there how hard can it be?

This is a great place to start from! He’s not even Prez yet, and I saw him say something recently about learning from Clinton’s experience and how Bill didn’t take this approach and was savaged immediately by Repub-owned BigMedia, and wasn’t able to get even the most minor Liberal proposals through. Then, 1994 mid-terms happened

Managing the structurally hostile MSM is the linchpin of the Obama team’s post-election strategy. They know from obvious experience that a good President (Clinton) can be almost destroyed and a terrible one, actually the worst in our history (Bush) can be preserved by them. The press know it, too, which is why the reporters and pundits have been so snarky lately. The locus of power in a nation as big and complex as the United States is hard to situate, and there are multiple connecting basins of attraction, but the managers of the mainstream press and the advertisers who control their decisions are clearly a major one.

This is going to be a frustrating time for progressives. But we need always to recognize that we are in an extremely hostile world — the hostility doesn’t come form ordinary people, though. It comes from the big money interests who have been riding the anti-progressive wave since the days of Woodrow Wilson.

I have been re-reading William Allen White’s

Only Yesterday

as a kind of prelude to the inauguration. It was instant history in its time, and still amazing. Chronicles the period 1919-1931. It seems very much like what we have lived through in the past 8 years, without the foreign wars.

I’m glad I’ll be working Thursday night and miss the Decider’s “farewell address.” Someone should tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

*note to self, do not talk about others bad attitude*

How about the door smackin’ ‘im in the nose on the way in?

Ever since solai brought this up months ago I’ve been trying to figure out a way to prod YouTube, et al to add captions. With all the software geniuses floating around out there how hard can it be?

i expect the “how hard” is inversely proportional to the amount of $$$ we have to spend on it. i have very little, which makes it seem like a hard thing to do.

would also like audio only versions of all youtubes so that people on dial up could at least listen to them.

somehow i don’t think you need a note. seems to come naturally.

oops. that didn’t sound right. i meant not complaining and having a good attitude seems to come naturally to you.

If you watch football you’ve noticed the computerized lines that show the line of scrimage and where they need to go for a 1st down? That guy made a fortune selling that little program to the networks. I think the same would be true for a program that added captions to videos.

It doesn’t get any better to set the record straight; it is what it is. Death is death; he likes it. Did Brooks talk about that?

He said: He has the best seat in the house to see history. He’s celebrating his view.

Bartlett was on right after the interview to tell us that finally we, the people, finally got to see the personable man he was working for.

Plus, a Constitutional Republic does not re-enact the English Civil War,the French and Russian Revolutions….trials of political enemies are not exactly ‘liberal’ things to do…

“The president also will defend his record, Perino said, but will show graciousness toward Obama and not attempt to revisit the old battles of his presidency.”

Does she mean in the vein of permitting the Obama family the use of Blair House a few days early so the kids can enroll in school? To paraphrase Forrest Gump ” My Momma says gracious is as gracious does”.

They dropped the “e”. It’s a “Candide” look at the the past 8 years, but first we must tend our garden.

Oh, whatever!!!!! george.

UGH! is right. ‘couldn’t really improve on the sentiment.

I gotta say tho, I’m just GLAD he’s LEAVING.

There were times, months actually, when I woulda put money on that he’d pull another false flag incident outa his butt and refuse to step down.

JUST GO AWAY!
But do advise he NOT leave the country. I’m thinkin’ we will still have conversations coming with this ignorant thug.

One last thought, I’ll NEVER EVER trust or forgive the US Congress for not impeaching this entire crime family. That’ll be a very dark bruise on the banana that is the Reptiles and Snakes of congress, esp the 111th!!!

My mom taught me to only say nice things about people too, but even she thinks he’s a fuckhead.

I know this is way EPU’d, but I just have to say that even though I’m not working then, I will make it a point to miss that speech.

I *thought* he first said there would be no farewells … and now we even HAVE to endure a Speech. wtf. wft. ftw. Oh and he and the missus are on Larry King tonight too. Soooooo, they’re trying to *show* how nice a person he is. He could be freaking Jesus and he would still be the worst president ever. One has nothing to do with the other. Oh, except Jesus wouldn’t have tortured anyone. So, how really nice is fush? And I saw an ugly mean-spirited rather stupid man at the podium. They can’t change that.

Interesting how you didn’t address the main thrust of what I was getting at in that comment, and that was about increasing our audience which will make us all a much more powerful force. Every time I ever bring up this topic, that’s what my motivation is.

I simply offered what I felt, and re-reading now still feel, was constructive criticism toward that goal, and it seems obvious that I was talking in very general terms about FDL. Not sure where your defensiveness about your personal actions came from. I see my previous two comments in this thread have compliments of FDL, and you in particular.

This was pretty funny though, considering my comment you replied to ended with a critique of Obama:

what it seems to me is that all complaining is ok with you – about republicans, about your fellow commenters – but not obama.

There’s a big difference between complaining and constructive criticism. Plus, with Repubs, it’s easy for us to find consensus, but ever since the Dem Prez primaries started, it just makes sense that there’ll be more disagreements amongst Liberals, and until we start seeing what Obama actually starts doing as Prez, these fissures will still exit I think. We’ll either all be rallying behind him, or rallying toward Blue America candidates.

if you want me to be responsible for telling you what to do that will be effective and to help you feel positive about obama, i’m not signing up for that.

Not looking for you to “tell me what to do,” but I do like to strategize and discuss best courses of action with people based on the shared experiences we all bring to the table. My experience is that others attract to those offering positive solutions to problems. Sure, people like to vent as well, but it’s an issue of balance. Yin Yang.

Many FDL threads now get dominated by the same names saying the same things, usually “complaining” (your word) while ignoring the many positive developments from Obama. I think the balance is off. Just my observation and sometimes others chime in with similar opinions.

I hope you don’t find this “demoralizing.” I assume you, like me, would be happy to see FDL become the most popular New Media outlet there is. Again, I’m simply offering constructive criticism with the hopes of increasing the FDL audience. I’ve been making this suggestion for a while now around here, and it’s often met with resistance or ignored by the regulars. Perhaps I should take the hint I guess, and stop wasting my time and everyone else’s? There are other Liberal corners of the New Media that don’t have this issue after all. I do get so much from the frontpagers though…

Oh, and thanks for the Hearings listings. I’ve used those before.

There’s a big difference between complaining and constructive criticism. Plus, with Repubs, it’s easy for us to find consensus, but ever since the Dem Prez primaries started, it just makes sense that there’ll be more disagreements amongst Liberals, and until we start seeing what Obama actually starts doing as Prez, these fissures will still exit I think.

this is what i think the real issue is, not negativity (which may or may not be a problem), not lack of action – but disagreement.

here’s the thing – if you can make the case that i should stop using “fuck” all the time because that turns people off our message, i’m open to making that change. but if you are telling me i should be less critical of obama, that’s asking me to buy into your message. and i’m not buying – unless my criticism is inaccurate, illogical, mistaken, etc. if you think the “balance is off” because the “the many positive developments from Obama” are ignored, then i hope you will share what you think all the positive developments are. because, other than giving the Rs the boot, i don’t see them. i think the main political impediment we have to successful progressive government is, as of jan 20, obama.

you are asking me to represent a reality with my comments that is NOT the reality i observe. if you really want me to comment on all the good things obama is doing, that means you see it differently. so you’ve got to first convince me i have it wrong. i encourage you to do that, and i will happily discuss it. i’ve gotten lots of stuff wrong in the past, and i’m sure i do now as well. but i’m not going to write comments that reflect your view of reality when it’s not mine.

and yes it pisses me off that because i have a different view of what obama has done and is doing, rather than challenging me on my view – all sorts of other reasons are given for why i should stop with the negative obama comments…. but not the one reason that would get me to stop – a convincing argument about why i’m wrong.

p.s. complainers was your word, that’s why i used it.