The Israeli Arutz Sheva writes:
The IDF, in response, explained that they indeed dropped smoke bombs, which contain traces of phosphorus. Nevertheless, the amount of phosphorus is used for smoke bombs, which are allowed under international law.
White Phosphorous is legal for use as a smoke bomb but the use of WP as a weapon targeting civilian areas is a violation of international treaties. The US and Israel however have refused to sign those treaties – and Israel is now claiming innocence by comparing its munitions to those used by … well, us.
Mark Regev, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, said that Israel was only using legal weapons of the type used by other Western armies. “Israel military forces only use munitions that are acceptable under international law and international convention,” he said.
“The type of munitions used by Israel are similar, if not identical, to munitions used by other Western democracies, including Nato members.” His comments came a day after Dr Yusef Abu Rish, a doctor at Gaza City’s Nasser hospital, said he had treated at least 55 people suffering burns caused by controversial white phosphorus shells.
It’s not a stretch to assume that Regev is referring to the admitted use of White Phosphorous by the United States forces against Fallujah.
French Foreign Ministry spokesman in Paris, Eric Chevalier, recalled that "from a strictly legal point of view" the use of this weapon as a smokescreen "would be tolerated in principle according to international humanitarian law," although he pointed out the HRWs warning to the "dangerous effects" on the population. "France joins the demand made by HRW to the Israeli authorities not to use these weapons, given their toxicity and the density of the population in Gaza, " Chevalier affirmed.
As Gideon Levy writes in another stunning essay in Ha’aretz:
The questions that will beg to be asked, as cautiously as possible, are who is guilty and who is responsible. The world’s exaggerated willingness to forgive Israel is liable to crack this time…
The first echoes can already be heard. This past weekend, the UN and the Human Rights Commission in Geneva have demanded an investigation into war crimes allegedly perpetrated by Israel…
While Olmert, Livni and Barak appear determined to keep going – with Olmert stating that Hamas “will slam into Israel’s iron fist. Will it take time? It will take time. We will continue for as long as it takes to remove the threat over our heads. We have reached marvelous achievements in the fighting. This is the moment for the test to see who has stronger willpower, us or them." at least one Israeli soldier has refused to participate in these brutal attacks on Gaza:
An Israeli soldier has been jailed for refusing to take part in the army’s offensive in the Gaza Strip.
The unnamed soldier refused because of the civilian deaths resulting from the 17-day incursion.
He has been jailed for fourteen days after being charged with, and convicted for, refusing to obey orders.
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“White Phosphorous is legal for use as a smoke bomb but the use of WP as a weapon targeting civilian areas is a violation of international treaties.”
Bomb = weapon
Bombs dropped on civilian areas = weapon targeting civilian areas.
The bombs we’ve seen on the teevee, are not smoke bombs, they are fire bombs..they are incendiary weapons that clearly rain fire over the civilian targets..we’ve seen it every night in the footage.
Israel keeps trying to say that since Hamas hides in civilian areas, they aren’t civilian areas.
They can’t have it every which way.
THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Siun and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
This terrible genocide in Palestine will continue…indeed all the killin’ in the Middle East will continue…until the Isaeli population stands up to it’s fascist political leadership. The fact that Israel has “the bomb” is the political Omega pill that Obama is gunna hafta swallow soon or there will be no peace anywhere.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NO PROSECUTIONS-NO JUSTICE, NO JUSTICE-NO PEACE!!!
p.s. As an army medic in Viet Nam, I saw the effects of white phosphorous (Willie Peter as it was called)…it is a terror weapon with no legitimate military use. And anyone who wants to argue the fact with me, I invite you to take a trip thru one of my nightmares about peelin’ the Jungle Fats offa GI’s with Willie Peter burns over 30% of their bodies.
You mean if the Zionists stop shooting, everyone will stop?
That seems a bit narrow viewed to me. But, I understand how your anger at the situation may move you to say something like that.
Swing by, drop a bomb.
Did you see my note that yesterday Raven was asking about you?
Citizen macaquerman:
What the fuck are you talkin’ about…you tryin ta play the fascist game of false equivalence again…I’ll help ya out, there is absolutely no equivalence between the “final solution” assault on Gaza and a few limp assed rockets targeted against illegal Israeli settlements. Get that weak shit outta my yard!
siun, thank you for this and all your posts on palestine, iraq and afghanistan.
The Jews of the world are going to have to make a decision about whether or not they want the Zionists to speak on their behalf, and to what extent they are willing to tarnish their “religion” by allowing an agenda that is clearly not founded in Godliness to lie on their behalf, relying not on religious or legal fundamentals, but instead on terror and genocide to accomplish the acquisition of territory and resources – from the Nile to the Euphrates.
Under every single definition articulated by Mossad Agent Chertoff’s Department Of Homeland Security, Israel is a terrorist state.
from chris hedges: The Language of Death
Amen.
The lame apologists don’t want to admit what the rest of the world sees.
Keep givin’ ‘em hell, Norske. I got your back.
No, I’m neither trying to make an ethical point nor advocating for anybody, chum.
I was asking you to clarify your post that says “..all the killing in the ME will continue…until the Israeli population” and so on.
Are you trying to say that if the Israelis stop shooting that all the killing in the ME will end?
Isn’t it clear:
The killing will continue until the “Israeli population stands up to it’s fascist political leadership”
That is what the comment says.
A little nitpicking here:
Phosphorous is an adjective (accented on the second syllable).
Phosphorus is the element (accented on the first syllable).
Back to the topic:
Isn’t the use of Willy Pete a war crime? Especially when it’s used against civilians?
I think WP is legal to be used to illuminate an area, but illegal if used as a weapon…targeting civilians is illegal, period.
From Wiki, with translations and citations edited out by me
A little background on the fascist politicians of Israel.
Here are all of the sponsors of the Megaphone effort to jam blogs full of Israeli propaganda and make forums like this one less useful:
http://www.giyus.org/partners.html
One of Megaphone’s supporters is ERETZ MAGAZINE:
This is the method of propaganda they use – Google “Hasbara”
Learn what the term “Eretz” actually means, and you understand their entire agenda.
Hint: It’s certainly not peace.
It says ALL the killing. If he means what you understand, that would be good.
Here’s one of Israel’s organized web efforts to police the Internet to silence the truth tellers with false accusations:
http://www.zionismontheweb.org/
By imposing a siege on the Gaza denieing them food and medicine, elec power etc. is that killing too. That is what Israel has been doing since Hamas was elected over the corrupt fatah. That is why the feeble rockets were fired at Israel. The death toll was far greater for the palestinians before Israel fired its first shot. The Israelis are barbarians!
161 hrs & 13 min
i hope not too OT for this thread, another link:
back on topic, via juan cole:
Thank you Siun. And thank you, Selise for the Chris Hedges piece. This present is horrific. The aftermath looks to be but little better.
(And when we have time to draw a breath, it’s time to ban white phosphorous entirely. The smokescreen is a smokescreen.)
weapons destroy property or harm people.
Israel is using WP in a heavily populated civilian area where it is reasonably foreseeable that civilians may be harmed by the use of WP.
Israel is using WP as a weapon.
Thank you for the link.
See my comment #1.
My comment 15 was about a question of legality in response to another comment.
I agree with your comment #1 and your comment #15. you probably expressed it better than I did.
Can’t possibly be a smokescreen over such a populated area.
how short their memory is on extermination.
yes
Very true. Since it’s used as a dodge, best to get rid of ambiguity and ban this awful material forever.
Wlllie peter, nape, HE, 40 mike mike, 50 cal, raggedy ass 122’s, it don’t make a goddamn bit of difference if the shit hits YOU.
ERETZ ISRAEL includes Iraq. SURPRISE!
I understand what the Israelis are doing in Gaza. I can not condone what Israel is doing in Gaza. I understand that a blockade is an act or war.I even understand that Israelis are not dying in comparable numbers.
What I don’t understand is that the Israelis are the only people in the area who wish to impose their will on others, who wish to harm others, or act in a barbarous manner.
Ian has a new post up.
i don’t believe anyone has made that claim – only that currently it is mostly israelis who are doing so (i don’t care about wishes so long as they are not acted upon)
From Disengagement and the Frontiers of Zionism by Darryl Li, February 16, 2008
And that was the observation last year. Now they’ve bombed the institutions and infrastructure to rubble.
Opps…forgot the link:
Citizen macaquerman:
I mean that there will be no end to the killing until Israel leaves Palestinian land and stops killing Palestinians…until then the Palestinians and those who support them will not stop targeting Israelis. As for the killin’ in the greater Middle East, there will be no chance of bringin’ negotiated settlements to any of the other conflicts in which the US is tangled until the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is ended. Is that clear enough…Israelis stop first, then get their asses offa Palestinian land and then there will be peace…God it ain’t complicated, the Israelis are fightin’ for “living space” for a “greater Israel” that will remain racially pure (a Jewish state, don’tcha know)…Irony is a bitch and God has given the Israelis a good dose of it…look up the Nuremberg Laws and then tell me Israel doesn’t resemble the late lamented Third Reich.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/…..11928.html
Creeping Fascism
How ironic then that the persecuted have become the persecutors, using the tactics of their former oppressors to destroy those they wish to control and/or exterminate. 9/11 was their Reichstag Fire (a near-perfect False Flag Operation – but for the “Dancing Israelis”), the pretext to launch their plan – rooted in revenge and greed. But they have taken it one step farther, compelling others to do the job on their behalf.
I started commenting here after reading a comment that I thought made such a claim, authored @2
If, by Palestinian land, you mean the West Bank and Gaza, I’m with you. If you mean that the Israelis must get off ALL of the land, I don’t see how that’s possible.
New post
Citizen macaquerman:
Comment #2 made no such claim…I said that the killin’ wouldn’t stop until the Israelis stood up to their fascist political leaders. Yer screwed blued and tattooed if ya keep tryin’ ta make Israel’s war on the Palestinians a defensive response to terrorists…the whole world knows what’s happenin’ and so do you. There will be no peace until Israel decides to behave as a member of the civilized world.
Citizen macaquerman:
Now yer scamblin’…no one has called for the dismantling of Israel, everyone except the Israelis are tryin ta get the bastards back in their own legally recognized borders.
Are you willfully misunderstanding me? Take a deep breath. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying, not trying to fuck you up.
Citizen macaquerman:
I am not misunderstandin’ anything you’ve said, Citizen Macaquerman, and don’t worry, you gotta bring a lot more’n the weak assed shit you been spewin here if ya wanna fuck ME up. I once advised a citizen here at FDL not to “fuck with the bull or you’ll get the horns”…if you haven’t figured it out yet, I don’t play games and I’m too old ta suffer fools and fascists anymore.
OK. Israel goes back inside their borders and doesn’t mess around with the people on the other side. Then there will be peace. That it?
Citizen macaquerman:
Now yer gettin it…that wasn’t so difficult now was it?
Well, it seemed a bit difficult.
All the other other Jew-free countries in the Middle East are so peaceful. Iraq, Iran, Lebanon.. clearly Israel is the only problem country in the region, after the population walks into the Mediterranean there will be peace on earth.
/sarcasm
In her confirmation hearing today Clinton said:
Will she be even-handed and make comparable demands of Israel or is our role as a mediator already doomed?
Will Clinton say, “I think on Hamas you cannot negotiate with Israel until it
1) renounces violence
2) recognizes democratically-elected Hamas
3) relinquishes occupied Palestinian territory
4) agrees to abide by past agreements
YouTube Here
Genocide: ur doin it rong
What do you think of emailing this to all who voted “yes?”
If you’re truly interested in evenhandedness, rather than sarcasm, perhaps you might recognize that Hamas charter calling for the elimination of Israel is something that makes negotiations look a tad unpromising to the Israelis. It’s rather unlikely that Israel would hesitate to recognize Hamas or refuse to talk to them if they give that up.
From PRI “The World” today, Israel is losing the PR war.
Willie Pete isn’t the only tool that can be used to screen people. There are plenty of different shades of smoke that provide cover without doing more than irritating lungs.
WP is being used indiscriminately in crowded areas full of people targeting kids and women in an effort to wipe out the entire group of Palestinians, in a word, genocide.
James, with less than one thousand, out of one and a half million, killed in two weeks of shooting, it doesn’t seem like Israel is trying to wipe out the population. Genocide doesn’t seem to fit. Stick with ugly, horrible and barbaric.
In Srebrenica the body count was 8000 and it is considered genocide. It’s only 900+ now in Gaza. But what about the decrease in Palestinian population since 1948 in all of Palestine? What about the Arab population decrease in Israel since 1948? If it looks like genocide and smells like genocide, then it’s probably genocide. Occam’s Razor.
I think you’re the first to say the Gazan rockets weren’t hitting Israel proper, but only ‘illegal Israeli settlements’. Strangely, I think that phrase is a non sequitor since an Israeli settlement would be within Israeli territory and therefore legal.
What’s the Reality?
That logic is pretty much the same as Bush used: they always wanted to take out Saddam Hussein, but never dared it, not even the Crazies, until 9/11 and it’s ‘necessities’ gave them the knowledge that they could get away with it.
But then, Rice said something like, “Let’s not overlook the opportunities this (9/11) has created.”
The Palestinian population in the land that was Palestine in 1948 hasn’t decreased, but has instead greatly increased. I think that Occam’s Razor is generally thought to require that a theory explains the facts.
Completely EPU’d, wish to restate a comment I made on Blue Texan’s post re a video of support for Israel which I was asked an opinion.
My “opinion” is as follows:
I would only add that the anti-boycott law is unenforceable in addition to being unjust, if you think about it. I want to be on record as an opponent of the Zionist movement and state of Israel due to the barbarianism and hate they represent. When their victims forgive their transgressions against civilization, is when I will reconsider my position, not a moment before. Otherwise, Zionism and the state of Israel must be terminated.