”I know for a fact” = ”I said it yesterday in front of a hand-picked crowd of employees and sycophants and no one corrected me, so I reckon it’s either true or I can get away with saying it.”

Those who actually like the idea of causing pain to “terrorists” tend to believe that torture works a’priori. They don’t need evidence. There are also those who believe a’priori that it doesn’t work. Neither like “well it all depends, let’s look at the evidence”.

Let’s suppose that it works- at least sometimes- does that justify it’s use?

Got to wonder who was using “Scab” as meat-puppet-du-jour. Sure sounds like there was a hand up Scab’s backside as he’s generally not bright enough to launch a discussion on a topic of this complexity on his own, without somebody’s hand sanitizer-kissed knuckles at the back of his throat.

Just a guess, but torture probably only works if the guy has the information you want, has a low pain threshold, and the situation enables you to tell bullshit from the real thing instantly. This last requirement makes torture dubious in most cases.

Torture was a goldmine of made up information that kept our country safe from made up threats. Of course, it also distracted us from real threats and caused us to waste and misuse our resources, but I say that is a small price to pay for fictional safety.

Scarborough, like Buchanan, can be insightful about POLITICS, but rarely about policy. He has no more business passing himself off as an expert on torture, for example, than the man in the moon.

He must have seen 24 last night.

I still like the show, but they really jumped the shark with justifying torture AD nauseous.

The Republicans want to trick Obama into continuing the Torture Policy. Then they will rat him out, create a huge Lewinsky-sized Media stinkbomb, and put him on the path to impeachment for torture.

Obama looks like he can be tricked. They already tricked him into cutting their taxes, when he had said that he planned to raise them. Now Obama is backpedalling on closing Gitmo. Step One is done. Will Obama be fooled into the rest of it?

I would venture a guess that about 0.1 percent of Joe’s audience has actually even read The Dark Side or that Vanity Fair article. I think that that’s where the problem lies, they treat Coulter seriously, but when it comes to Mayer, absolute radio silence.

he is soooooo full of shit.

Doesn’t Joe Scarborough look like Joe the plumber Campaign surrogate, author ,journalist.
188 hrs & 14 min

his eyes are brown

Actually no. See this from MSNBC.

But surely waterboarding KSM had to be effective, didn’t it? Why else would our wise president Bush have ordered it?

Reminds me of Chris Matthews pushing “What the heck is Clinton talking about the Oval Office rug… I mean bizzare”.

When anyone with a brain saw the story two weeks before that Bush was all gaga talking about it with Obama and that Bush brings it up all the time to EVERYONE.

So Bubba was saying you SUCK as a POTUS, but its a really great rug.

Matthews was just making up his own shit and pulling it out of his…

Seems to me the entire Torture thing over that last few weeks has been Bush and Dick on the way out making up “reality”.

Brilliant guy that Scarborough. He is trying to burnish Bushco’s reputation and avoid prosecution for the same.

I saw Frost/Nixon this weekend and it just brought home for me how we need to a) find out everything that happened b) prosecute the perpetrators so this doesn’t happen again.

otherwise the famous line from the film becomes true:

“..when the President does it, that means that it is not illegal”

If this is true we have indeed lost our democracy already. No person can have absolute power in a democracy, even the president.

sorry to be OT, but people should dig this report on Olmert gloating about ordering Bush around:

http://digg.com/world_news/Isr…..ush_dances

“I said ‘get me President Bush on the phone’. They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn’t care. ‘I need to talk to him now’. He got off the podium and spoke to me.
“I told him the United States could not vote in favour. It cannot vote in favour of such a resolution. He immediately called the secretary of state and told her not to vote in favour.”

More Olmert: Rice “was left shamed. A resolution that she prepared and arranged, and in the end she did not vote in favour.”

Actually, Obama’s people have just said he’ll order Gitmo closed during his first week of office. See Attackerman for further details.

http://digg.com/politics/Scarb…..es_Again_2

Newsflash—Obama to order closing of Gitmo in his first week.

He’s walking back yesterday’s waffle.

Yeah, he was “tricked”.

I mean, since this is so blatant, why not just e-mail him a link to this article? Here’s the Morning Joe comment form.

but then again, ordering it and doing it and the time frame in between could be two different things

But it makes little boys like Scab all tingley down under to talk of torture. Doesn’t matter if it works or not as long as it makes him feel tough.

Heck of a legacy Bushie!

That also presupposes he wouldn’t tell you from other non-torture methods.

Scarborough talks over the other side of the argument and cuts off those making a point other than his, therefore his argument is not worthy of any real contemplation, or the cutting off and all he did on cam would be unnecessary.

New debate rules up for the media here to take hold after 20-1-09, isn’t that right.
So, right.

Wow, me thinks this could have a little something to do with an upcoming election… but no he said it was not about politics.

Atta way to release your version of the “reality” of back room dealings when Bush does not have enough time to respond. You know Bush would smack him for that if he cared anymore.

Too bad Japanese interogators that were tried and executed for waterboarding Allied prisoners during WWII didn’t use the same argument at their trials.

Jesus was crucified was subjected to “stress positions.”
These pro-torture people have a lot of explaining to do.

Obama is considering a Dubya model Kangaroo Court for the Gitmo Detainees. The problem is the torture. The defendents have been tortured and evidence obtained thru torture is inadmissable in a non-Kangaroo court.

Mayer’s book recounts how the administration never sought to find out whether torture would be effective, they just assumed that it was and went from there.

no, they really didn’t assume it was effective, their goal was to create unrest, to insure the insurgency would last

SCARBOROUGH: I know for a fact that waterboarding brought our interrogators, brought Americans, probably about 70-75 percent of what they get.

this is clearly a lie and clearly he is repeating what his puppet masters tell him to repeat

however even if it was not a lie what it wouldn’t demonstrate is the information that was lost, more actionable information that would have been gotten with the other methods real professionals use

lost and never to be measured

as well as insidentes that were created because of the policies that include torture

even if scarborough was not lying torture would still yield less information that if we were not seen as torturers

It’s looking like Obama will be putty in the hands of the Republicans. He wants to be “liked” and please everyone especially Republicans and the corrupt and complicit corporate media.

Never disrupt Scar when he’s on a riffin’ roll with those oh-so-untidy facts.

Guess he’s never talked to any of those vets who did interrogations back in the day.

Oh, wait. Joe talks to nobody but his own self.

Unfortunately, James Fallows appears to sorry for Bush and his press conference, here.

Nonetheless: I think even people who oppose the Bush Administrations policies would find it somewhat harder to dislike him viscerally after this performance — rather than getting angrier the more they see him, as with most of his appearances over these last eight years.

Not I, Mr Fallows, still dislike the guy viscerally.

Boy, I am soooo glad you caught this as well!

It’s bullshit like this that won’t let me watch “24″.

Scar always gets real ugly when someone presents the ‘bill due’ to him for the last 8 years of Republican criminality.

He’s gonna have stooped shoulders from all the water carrying in his future.

One thing I would love is for any guest on his show to ask him how he “knows for a fact” any of the bullshit he pulls out of his arse on a regular basis. Or maybe someone to just ask him if Bill Clinton deserves credit for keeping our country safe for his full 8 years. I am sure that would make his big ass head explode.

Its also evident now that Scarborough has a problem with women. Whenever a woman is on the show or in the past when he has been on another show with say Rachel Maddow if they do not agree with him he gets absolutely belligerent if not abusive. I was cheering Freeland on as she stood up to his bully act this morning though. Mika is going to need treatment for PTSD when its all said and done if she doesn’t already.

link please.

Obama thinks he will make a new libertarian-style third way with Cass Sunstein. He thinks that he can build consensus with m*therf*ckers like Mitch McConnell.

Sorry, click too fast – regarding this:

Obama is considering a Dubya model Kangaroo Court for the Gitmo Detainees.

Greenwald’s got it.

One of the worst things about the warmongers’ arguments is the the complete suppression of opportunity costs. Even if useful intelligence were produced by torture, how much less secure are we from wasting resources chasing down red herrings and fanciful stories (which we know torture produces)?

(Of course, this is just because they are looking for post-hoc justification, not rational decision-making, but still.)

Stunningly superficial Joe strikes again!
187 hrs & 57 min

Also check the link at RevDeb 22. The Obama ponder over courts is in there also.

Nonetheless: I think even people who oppose the Bush Administrations policies would find it somewhat harder to dislike him viscerally after this performance — rather than getting angrier the more they see him, as with most of his appearances over these last eight years.

Strange I had no problem liking him even less after reading the transcript of the presser. I think Fallows probably slept through it. That’s the only way I can see of avoiding getting angry about it.

Fallows statement is particularly appalling because it sidles up to the “Bush haters” meme. People hate Bush because of the tremendous harm his administration has inflicted on people around the world, not because we have something personal against him. Declaring that we should instead feel sorry for him because he personally looks so pitiful is on the same level as “Hitler loved his dogs.”

OT Burris to be seated this week per CNN

Not surprising. See this link from Correntewire with this is particular:

“Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman, currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his office. The medical examiner, who had his license revoked in for falsifying information in an autopsy report, and suspended in for six years, ruled the case an accident, after giving conflicting information about her injuries. He said he lied about them because “The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head injury.”"

Larry Flynt is the one who disclosed this story (no link) so take that FWIW.

When will we see the no-confidence vote on Reid?

Scarborough as Republican Congressman had a woman subordinate turn up dead in his office. She banged her head on a desk. Scar knows people who can fix it so he don’t get implicated. JEB!

That also presupposes he wouldn’t tell you from other non-torture methods.

From what I have read about interrogations in the past, interrogators say it is important to establish a relationship with the interogee. That even if they are enemies and fanatic, they have a need to explain and justify themselves and in this they are often very open and candid.

To be followed tomorrow by waffling today’s walkback.

The Smoking Gun has got a credible report archived in case you’re interested.

I know for a fact that Joe Scarborough is a Moron. He brings us 70-75% of all the MSM B.S.

OT @#$%^&*(%$&*% BUSH wants to address the nation on thurs evening. I am going to have to rent a movie
187 hrs & 43 min

Bush asks for prime time Thursday for networks farewell address.

*sigh* Just go away, George.

And Scarborough made an odd reference to McCain – his guest – who he would not let get a word in edgewise, tried to bring up McCain’s experience with torture and his subsequent stance against it – and Scarb said “I’m not going there, and I’ll tell you why off air” What’s up with that?

I’d like to see how the repukelicans orchestrate their sendoff

this man is responsible for their loses in power, this man took their permanent majority into extinction to the point that if the democrats knew how to play their hand the republicans would have to change their name

so how to orchestrate the send off?

do they give him a timid send off to represent that they do not approve?

or do they give him a rounding send off to make believe none of the problems were cauased by this man?

interesting dilema they have facing themselves

They could get Scarborough to blow smoke up his @ss and then open the overhead baloon netting with shoes substituted for baloons.
187 hrs & 35 min

It was originally brought up over at American Politics Journal and the late lamented Online Journal. The autopsy drawings are no longer online, but they featured two major skull fractures — the bigger one being nearly eight inches long and running from the front to the back of the skull — and at least one hematoma, the biggest being the size of a child’s fist, in her brain.

The medical examiner — who had hopped from state to state plying his trade and was barred from practice in Missouri — said that the cause of death was a heart attack, the heart attack allegedly causing her to hit her head on the desk as she fell. (Except that this was a healthy woman in her early thirties with no history of heart issues, but a history of 5k fun runs. And hematomas don’t form once the heart stops beating.)

Clinton was making fun of Bush for using “my rug” as his standard conversation topic. That apparently went well over the head of Matthews.

they know about torture him and buchanan are both hood buddies

Thanks Jane. I think we know for a fact that Joe Scarborough is full of it.

Well they inhabited the hood during rather different eras.

While I usually agree with Greenwald, I think that this:

Let’s emphasize what Obama is actually saying about why he can’t close Guantanamo right away. Here is his answer when asked if he’d close Guantanamo in the first 100 days:

It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it’s true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.

What he’s saying is quite clear. There are detainees who the U.S. may not be able to convict in a court of law. Why not? Because the evidence that we believe establishes their guilt was obtained by torture, and it is therefore likely inadmissible in our courts (torture-obtained evidence is inadmissible in all courts in the civilized world; one might say it’s a defining attribute of being civilized). But Obama wants to detain them anyway — even though we can’t convict them of anything in our courts of law. So before he can close Guantanamo, he wants a new, special court to be created — presumably by an act of Congress — where evidence obtained by torture (confessions and the like) can be used to justify someone’s detention and where, presumably, other safeguards are abolished. That’s what he means when he refers to “creating a process.“

Amazingly, when discussing the same topic, Obama vowed that “we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.” How? By creating a new court just for accused Islamic radicals that allows us to use confessions and other evidence that we obtained through torture? That sounds like exactly the same “message about our values” that we’ve been sending.”

is over the top.

The information received by torture is naturally and should be inadmissible. I do not feel, however, that we should just turn everyone loose right away. Yes, we should close Gitmo, and I think the MSNBC article, described above, talks about this. There should be habeas hearings for every single one of these prisoners – Obama says this.

The Bush administration is so incompetent that they actually have released real terrorists. I don’t have the cite right now, but Suskind writes about it in his last book. Let’s therefore make sure who we have here. Just from a political standpoint, it is an absolute loser if we were just to cut everyone loose. It would have the possibility of creating the “Gays in the Military” firestorm which hampered Clinton’s first 100 days.

As I said in Hugh’s thread, because of Cheney’s secrecy issues (and let’s get it straight that he was the intellectual chief behind all of this policy), we just don’t have all the facts. The statement that they are preparing an order to close Gitmo is welcome in my eyes. Let’s see how it all plays out. Trust but verify certainly applies to be sure, but let’s not get too carried away.

Yeah, I was just mindful of the mods request not to link to sites such as PJ media, or in this case, Hustler magazine.

Here’s a little algebra:

SCARBOROUGH: “I know for a fact that waterboarding brought our interrogators, brought Americans, probably about 70-75 percent of what they get.”

multiplied by

“90 percent of it was total fucking bullshit.”

equals

63% to 67.5% of what our interrogators get is total bullshit.

Joe has a teeny, tiny brain.

Torture generated the Maher Arar “confessions” too, as well as a host of other confessions, all found with minimal review to be wrong.

Mueller also recently and finally admitted that no decent info was obtained by the torture sessions.

What I’d like to know is why Scarborough wants people like Daniel Pearl’s family to be left hanging in noman’s land over things like the KSM “confession” (disgusting bragging) and why he thinks thousands and thousands of US servicemen and women and civilians need to have lost their lives, limbs and minds in Iraq all to glorify the al-libi lies.

And the remainder was name rank and serial number.
187 hrs & 18 min

That is disconnected from his mouth
187 hrs & 17 min

Obama is right to be worried about releasing some gitmo detainees. While many may be harmless, there may be some dangerous people in the mix. If even one gets released and then is involved in a terrorist plot that kills americans- Obama might as well hang up his first term. He would not be forgiven. He has to find a way to cover his ass on this.

Torture advocates also are never asked the “real” (not Yoo/tesitculated) questions on children. What about the US ties to disappearing KSM’s children (and Siddiqui’s) and the use of children to further “enhance” their parents’ enhanced interrogations? If it was ok to torture KSM’s children, what about Maher Arar’s and Khalid el-Masri’s?

Why was the CIA letting a prissy redhead take plane trips to watch waterboarding for entertainment, even though her presence impeded the interrogations, if we were really trying to get intel?

What about the age of the “young” detainee described in Mayer’s book who was tortured to a freezing death, then tossed in an unmarked grave (and what intel did we get from that). Why was none of the “intel” preserved for language and circumstance and intel experts, via tapes – if it was so very important? Are the people who destroyed the known tapes guilty of treason by placing this nation at risk of terrorist attack by destroying the information that was going to keep us safe?

What about Errachidi? The Uighurs? Kurnaz? Donald Vance? Sean Baker? On and on, and not “about” KSM.

forget about trying to reason with republicans about the horrors of torture – it appeals to their inner sadist. They will never be able see comprehend torture’s horrors or its counter-productivity. They will always justify torture because deep down they get quite a rush just thinking about it – it empowers and thrills them.

73 – there “may be” some dangerous people in the CIA. The DOD. The DOJ. “there may be” has never been a standard for torture detentions in this country.

Evidence.

Why is it a word almost never used in the torture discussions?

As most of us expected, Burris is to be seated:

WASHINGTON — Eager to put the scandal-tainted standoff behind them, Senate Democrats accepted Roland Burris as President-elect Barack Obama’s Senate successor on Monday and said they expect to swear in the new Illinois senator this week.

“He is now the senator-designate from Illinois and, as such, will be accorded all the rights and privileges of a senator-elect,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois said in a joint statement after Senate lawyers determined that Burris’ paperwork met Senate requirements to be seated.

I have no idea how often torture works- or more importantly- how often it works when nothing else would. That’s an empirical question to be answered by an objective source- which probably constitutes a nul set.

Whether or not it works, it MUST be the policy of the US not to use it EVER. To have a policy to only use it when convenient ain’t a gunna cut it..

Cheney figured that once his New American Century began, no one would dare to try to hold the US accountable for anything, so that it didn’t matter what the world thought of our behavior- just one of many miscalculations from Herr Cheney.

foothillsmike@72:
Or whatever is in that teeny, tiny brain is instantly orally ejected due to his genetic condition “Diarrhea of the Mouth”.

If it’s the policy of the US to never ever use torture- and someone thinks that it’s necessary in one specific situation, they they should be forced to take the personal risk of doing it and hope for a pardon from the prez.

Well, I know for a fact torture works. It just does, okay. Just leave it at that it works.

Thus, you are all wrong. Really, really wrong.

What drinks do you have to offer (#48)
187 hrs & 2 min

I agree, on a superficial level, with what Steve Benen writes here.

With Burris being seated, that leaves- what- a half a dozen senate seats to go? I guess most won’t resign their seats until confirmed- like Hillary.

The Minnesota seat is being resolved with all deliberate speed- and a winner should be declared by spring—perhaps THIS spring. It’s Minnesota after all.

Paraphrasing Sen Mark Prior

‘You don’t have to pass an IQ test to be a Congressman, or a teevee talkshow celebutard’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fliFcvGAKk

Well since the advent of the New Year, and my weight loss campaign, I have “cheap” vodka, diet tonic (house brand), and lime (fresh). Can I pour you one?

I made a bet I think about this with one of the regulars, can’t recall who- I think he/she owes me a public ass kissing.

Delaware and Colorado have each ID’d and announced a replacement. Biden has submitted his resignation effective 1/15 (Thursday) and I assume his replacement will then be seated. I believe the Biden replacement is expected to be a placeholder and not run in the special election in ‘10 for the remaining 4 years of his term, allowing Beau Biden to run.

Colorado will most likely be seated upon Salazar resignation after confirmation. And that seat is up for regular election in ‘10, same as Obama’s seat, so no special election.

HRC has stated that she will resign upon confirmation and Paterson has stated that he will name a replacement then. Special election will be held in NY in ‘10 for the final 2 years of HRC term.

Sounds great! thanks. By the way the whiner in MN has already declared himself.
186 hrs & 54 min

Thanks! All but Minnesota should be filled soon then.

There are at least 3 rethug sen that have already announced they will not run in 2010
186 hrs & 46 min

When this torture stuff first broke, there was a quote from a former S American general, now a diplomat, the essence of which was: “torture gets signatures on confessions, not usable intelligence”.

At the moment Minnesota does not have two Senators, and the Al Franken campaign today sent a letter to Governor Tim Pawlenty asking him to sign a certificate of election for Franken to rectify that.

Franken Attorney Marc Elias notes that the seven day waiting period after the canvassing board certification has passed and cited federal laws and Minnesota Supreme Court rulings he said supported the Governor signing the certificate now instead of waiting for the outcome of an election challenge from former Senator Norm Coleman.

Governor Pawlenty indicated immediately he would not sign the election certificate. According to the Minnesota Independent, Pawlenty said “I have a duty to follow state law and our statutes are clear on this issue…I am prohibited from issuing a certificate of election until the election contest in the courts has been resolved.”

The election certificate requires two signatures. One from the Governor and one from Minnesota Secretary of State Mark Ritchie. Ritchie today indicated that he is not going to sign the certificate saying “Minnesota law is very clear on when a certificate of election can be issued. Neither the governor nor I may sign a certificate of election in the U.S. Senate race until all election contests have reached a final determination. Even if the governor issues a certificate of election prior to the conclusion of the contest phase, I will not sign it.”

(more from the state of 10,000 lakes- or however many)

Why is it a word almost never used in the torture discussions?

It should also be pointed out that the government has had 6 years to prepare cases against detainees and to try and convict them. Isn’t it time that these people face a real justice system and isn’t it about time for the government to make its case or free them?

Check that 4 rethug sen
186 hrs & 44 min

Of course that type of evidence is vulnerable to “The Law of Experts” (For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.)

It would be surprising if torture has NEVER worked- EVER-

Hell I’d be talkin a little after they pulled out the first few fingernails!

But at any rate- even if it DOES sometimes work- it should still not be the policy of the USA.

Maybe we need to do a series on all the media figures who went to prison for war crimes. I know it happened at Nuremberg and also after the Rawandan tragedy.

McCain gave up the names of the Minn Vikings Pitt Steeler line

Goopers takin a strong interest lately in spendin more precious time with their families..No one asks the families for THEIR opinion about the value of having their personal gooper home all the fuckin time- lyin, spittin, pissin, and makin a general nuisance.

McCain gave up the names of EVERY NFL team that he could think of. Of course there weren’t as many back then in the stone age.

It should also be pointed out that the government the Bush DOJ has had 6 years to prepare cases against detainees and to try and convict them. Isn’t it time that these people face a real justice system and isn’t it about time for the government to make its case or free them?

Corrected it for you.

I don’t that the Bush administration had any intention to ever prosecute these people, just throw away the key and pass the buck. That is the entire problem here.

Actually in his books it was the Green Bay Packers O’line. Since at that time, the Packers were the PACKERS of Lombardi fame, they would have been the team he was most likely to be aware of, even as a party hard Naval aviator.

The bit about it being the Steelers was made even more of a pander since at the time he was shot down the Steelers had been a joke in the NFL for decades.

If Burris is seated then the Senate will have caved again and the people of Illinois will be saddled with a hack chosen by a corrupt governor. It is those people that are the real losers in this. This is more change we can believe in?

Would forcing the detainees to watch Joe Scar be a violation of the Geneva convention?
186 hrs & 30 min

Yeah- nothin new there eh?

Unfortunately, nothing at all.

Scott Horton, explaining how our forefathers, historically, dealt with an Executive who tolerated and ordered torture of detainees.

http://harpers.org/archive/2009/01/hbc-90004174

The crimes described by witnesses, that, in the course of his war-making had authorized or indulged the torture of prisoners taken captive by his forces:

“two witnesses … testified that the executive had stood by and looked on approvingly as prisoners were beaten”

“a further witness said that he saw the executive, mounted on his horse in Fowey in Cornwall, gazing from his horse as prisoners were stripped naked and mistreated”

“A fourth witness was called … he said, the executive commanded his troops as they took surrender of the fort by agreement, and in the executive’s presence, his troops fell upon the surrendered prisoners, stripped them naked and proceeded to beat, cut, and mistreat them, in violation of the laws of nations. An officer ordered them to stop, but the executive, sitting ‘on horseback in bright armour’ ordered them to continue with their beatings, saying ‘I do not care if they cut them three times more, for they are mine enemies.’”

The punishment?

“How does one punish an executive for violation of the laws of nations by authorizing the torture of prisoners? The verdict was that he be taken to a place of execution, where his head was to be severed from his body by an axe.”

Maybe we should just go ahead with the presumption that Bush was king – there are precedents for what happens when a king orders torture.

Thanks for this post. I watched this part of Morning Joke, and was revolted at Joe’s bullying of Krista Friedland (sp?).

“Why Scarborough (or anyone) wants to wade out into the middle of the torture debate armed only with misinformation from George “16 words” Bush at this point is a mystery”

Because he is sure he knows everything, and no one calls him on it because they don’t want to go through what Krista did.

By now he should be an embarrassment to MSNBC.

See the whole “Morning Joe” segment here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoZxkjHImk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArlRu03raL8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBBzXNFUfJI

Mika and Chrystia think the US should take a look at out interrogation policies.

Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan argue that it was justified, effective and that we shouldn’t examine the decision because we would be doing so from our current perspective of (apparent) safety and security.

“You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it’s almost embarrassing to listen to you.” – Z. Brezinski

I think Zbiegnew Brezinski’s comment about Joe Scarborough deserves another airing. lol

“You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it’s almost embarrassing to listen to you.”
- Z. Brezinski

I think Zbiegnew Brezinski’s comment about Joe Scarborough deserves another airing. lol

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mhgzNgGEAw

Is waterboarding torture? There is no harm caused, it’s a psychological game (yes uncomfortable and very scary if you don’t know what to expect).
Does it give you meaningful information? So far all the “experts” have said yes. There are lots of people who chime in with opinions but the guys performing the procedure say it works and no one is harmed. Compared to getting shot or ones head cut off I think waterboarding is probably quite preferable. In fact given the option of “Barney” music 24×7 for weeks at a time I’d opt for the waterboarding. Of course once you know they aren’t going to kill you it becomes much easier to take it.

I’ve seen people participate in worse activities in San Francisco in the name of fun….