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PEBO's going to issue an order to close the detention center at Gitmo during his first week in office, maybe even his first day in office.
WASHINGTON (AP) — President-elect Barack Obama is preparing to issue an executive order his first week in office — and perhaps his first day — to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, according to two presidential transition team advisers.
How cool is that? Really, Mr. President Elect? Good way to start.
Anyway, one of the thorniest issues confronting the very smart people doing the detention center closing is where to put the detainees:
"It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done, but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication," Obama said on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday when asked whether he would close the prison in his first 100 days.
So, how would you handle this? Seriously.
I'm looking for your good suggestions and ideas.
Where should the detainees go?
And by what process should they get there?
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Dallas, Texas in Bush’s soon-to-be-gated community!
Well, seeing that I generally hate being too serious, but you want seriousness (narrorwing brows and thinking)…here is what is being discussed in Europe:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28560564/
But, in my not too serious…oh wait maybe…they should move into a house in W’s new gated community in Dallas that still has a covenant apparently banning people of color. That would be most satisfying….burp.
There’s an unused ranch in Crawford TX, all wired up for security already. Eminent domain would be appropriate, too!
Hahahaha!
Maybe if we knew what they were charged with this would be easier. Maybe if they had been tried for their crimes? Sentenced? Found innocent?
Prisoners of War are to be detained according to the Geneva Convention even if the prisoners are no more than common criminals. The distinction on Gitmo and Bush is that Bush decided not to follow the Geneva Convention. Now do it and trials of criminals under the Geneva Convention are permitted. Open up a POW camp in Crawford, Texas and conduct the trials of criminals held as POWs there with full Geneva Convention protocols.
Great minds as they say!
well this is CLEARLY a slap right in the face of cheney and uside the head of bush
bush and cheney insisted it could not be done, obama is doing it almost immediately
can you say “sweet”?
this gives me hope, sort of like the guy playing stud and raising on 5th street with what looks like absolutely nothing, if it’s a good player the man has trips and goes on to win the pot
I am hoping obama has been playing poker and he just put in that 5th street raise
For the vast majority: home.
For the few who were actually responsible for planning attacks on 9/11, the Cole, our embassy in Kenya, etc: put the detainees in the US Marshals’ custody. The Marshals can then confine the few masterminds in the same fashion and manner as they’d detain anyone else awaiting Federal criminal trials.
Process: rule of extant law and extant courts works fine with me.
This is really a thorny question. Those who cannot be charged should obviously be released. Those who have been illegally handled and yet pose a danger should be somehow incarcerated and perhaps their fate determined by the world court.
185 hrs & 20 min
and sewers
I might add that what has been disregarded by the Bush people is that many US laws were broken in the pursuit of murder on 9/11 and murder was committed on US soil. Most of the common criminals held at Gitmo who are causally connected with 9/11 could be tried on criminal charges arising out of conduct which violated US criminal laws.
come on, I can’t believe none of you want them to move in with you!
say what?
I believe we have plenty of land that is undeveloped and could not support a community, I am talking about montains, desert
or how bout this?;
build the facility on government owned land otherwise vacant but now producing petroleum
or better;
pick one of the areas the oil industry wanted a new refinery and have as part of their fee, they have to develope and fund the facility.
me likey that last one
1) to trial in our courts
or
2) home. with our sincere apologies and some restoration would be nice too.
for 1) our courts
for 2) their choice for the method of transportation home.
Lots of them need to be referred to competent lawyers either in US or international courts who can pursue valid claims against their torturers and detainers. Seriously, until there’s some accountability for how these people — some of them children! – were treated in our custody, the stain will remain.
Until then, there’s an unused patch of real estate in Prairie Chapel Texas that will work just fine.
Welp, we can’t use the fruit of the forbidden tree in trying them, and the claim is that that’s exactly what all the evidence against them is. And the claim is that these people are amoral, comfortable with inflicting death and suffering on humankind, ruthless, effective, and unrelentingly driven. So I guess we’ll have no choice but to buy ‘em suits and apartments and give ‘em corner offices in the Fortune 100.
Sewer you.
oh, you
The detainees that can’t be tried here should be released to Israel where that shining light of democracy will ensure they are well taken care of. /s
How bout the GP medium tents at the Maricopa County Jail, they’d soon be wantin to go back to Cuba!
What’s the matter with Kansas? (Leavenworth, that is.)
whoa - what happened to rule of law?
seriously. do you think even the most innocent of the detainees, after years of torture at our hands, is not a danger to us? of course they are - and it’s not only a matter of what they might have been guilty of, it’s a matter of what we’ve done to them.
we can either deal with the danger they present in a responsible fashion (which means we don’t get to detain people because we have reason to fear them) or we can kick the can down the road - but lets be clear that everyone time we kick the can we increase the danger we are going to have to deal with at some point.
(1) Hold hearings immediately on all detainees. Those who can be released to their home countries safely will be shipped expeditiously, and not in the blindfold/shackles/poopysuit so loved by BushCo.
(2) Those who cannot be released safely to their home countries or against whom solid, admissible evidence exists will be brought to the U.S. expeditiously. Those who cannot be released will be fitted with ankle bracelet position monitors and found some form of gainful employment. Those who must be tried will be held in Federal custody pending a constitutional trial with all the trimmings.
Not so simple is it?
As a matter of law– you know the quaint old American way of doing things — either charge and try them under some American legal statute or let them go. If the choice is let them go, then send them to their country of origen or to the country from which they were illegally seized.
Preventative detention is unconstitutional and Un-American in the same way as Pre-emptive war (war of choice) is unconstitutional and Un-American.
Are these people dangerous? Well lets see, if you snatched one of us off a street in Afganistan, imprisoned us with out the right to know why you were holding us, tortured us, drugged us, and then dumped us without even a sorry about that. Would we be dangerous to whoever had done that?
The question is not about them. The question is about us. Who are we. What do we believe is right. Are we willing to stand up for what we say is right.
It seems obvious that surveillance of the “worst of the worst” released detainees would be sensible. A smart intelligence service would have moles undergoing torture at Gitmo that would be released alongside the WoW detainees, these moles would have some credibility with the WoW detainees due to the shared horrific experience at Gitmo.
Since these WoW detainees are determined to strike back it’s just a matter of letting their plans develop, then trying them for the new conspiracy using evidence the moles secure, preferably before any severe damage is done.
Seriously?
The United States has forfeited the right to hold, charge and try any suspect who has been subjected to torture whether in US custody or in custody under US sanction (ie: renditioned.)
Because all of the captives held at Gitmo, and many of them held in US gulags around the world, have been held for an extended period, some subjected to some of the most cruel treatment imaginable, all of them should be considered for immediate release either to their own country, to a third country, or to the United States. Those against whom there is no evidence at all (a significant percentage) should be released forthwith and should be provided with reparations. Those for whom there is untainted but substantiated evidence should be turned over for investigation and trial by a neutral international tribunal operating under international law. Those who have been tortured, but against whom there is other substantiated evidence not derived from torture should also be turned over for trial by a competent international tribunal.
Those against whom the only evidence has come through torture should be able to make their case before an international tribunal which would have the power to free them if warranted and to prosecute their torturers.
The United States, however, has forfeited any right to hold, try, or punish these captives.
If Obama’s answers in recent interview meant he will try a more humane and more competent redo of Cheney/Bush commissions approach, I am very much opposed to that.
I’m no lawyer, but I’m not sure domestic criminal law adequate to handle this situation. And even if Obama administration did do it by the book, who would believe it, even here in the US?
I think best appraoch might be to go to international law authorities and create adapt procedures available within framework of international law(I’m not even sure who that is -whoever runs the Geneva Conventions? and who else? UN?)
Anyway, given my crude knowledge, that is the direction I would go.
And for domestic politics, I would call the process ‘international cooperation in handling terrorist suspects’ since that polls well. I think this approach would have significant public support, since I believe a majority of US public still likes the idea of ‘international cooperation’ despite yeas of hate speech against it by reactionary jingos.
The situaton with these prisoners was a mess from the moment the Cheney/Buish administration decided to take a lawless bounty hunter/dragnet $$$ boondoggle approach to finding terrorist suspects.
But, these guys think that way on most everything: pay some flunkies big $$ to take care of it, declare problem solved, and worry as little about what is really going on as possible.
Fidel is pretty popular around here, how bout doing what he did. Maybe Marial is available.
Did ya get my follow up on Heckman etal?
Not simple at all.
Even for those are going to be released - they are going to be physical and psychological messes - some likely with no place to go home to.
In an effort to demonstrate that the new Administration has a sense of humor, all the detainees will be relocated to Diego Garcia.
Aw right!
The fifteen baddest - no problem. Sned them for homestays - one each for these fifteen outstanding grandstanding public servants:
Joe Lieberman, Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Larry Craig, David Vitter, Norm Coleman, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Mark Foley, Sarah Palin and First Dude, John McCain, Pat Robertson, Reverend Saddleback and James Dobson.
Have a reform contest.
My recommendation is that any detainees deemed unsuitable for release be divided between Dubya’s Crawford ranch and the Cheney compound/bunker in Jackson Hole.
How hard is it to close Gitmo?
1) Move all prisoners into our US legal system or set them free.
2) Any “high-value” prisoners deemed too scary for us should be given over to the Hague, surely we have the evidence to try them there.
The problem with point two is we need to sign on to the International Criminal Court. But that wouldn’t be so bad, would it?
no Scooter???
I think just releasing them is politically infeasible. And some commenters are correct that for those who are innocent, we have some responsibility.
As for those who may be culpable of something and dangerous, well, that is complete mess; perhaps an irrecoverable mess-up that cannot be undone. What US legal process is available for them that has not been tainted?
I think restoring US credibility is essential. The US is also responsible for setting precedent of individual countries detaining individuals with not rules or process at all just on the claim of terrorist threat. An example of internatinal cooperation that set some standards for how to deal with those accused of international terrroist activties would be useful and I think needed now.
The whole thing is such a huge mess that I think internatioal cooperative effort is needed to solve it.
I think that is the only way that is poltically feasible for the US public, US moral authority and leadership, and will provide adequate redress and assistance for those whose lives have been destroyed.
They should each have a habeus corpus hearing and the US should present the reasons in a criminal court why they need to be held and what the charges are.
If the judge determines that there is reasonable cause bail should be set and a date for trial.
If no basis for charges are presented they should be released from custody. The court should then set a hearing to determine the damages for unlawful imprisonment.
At that hearing all those who have participated in the capture and treatment shall be held criminally and civily responsible. If it is determined that there was unlawful action by the US or their agents, reparations and damages shall be paid.
Are you guys hearing Chris Matthew’s guests? They are ripping W.
I haven’t heard any voices in the positive for W’s presser this morning.
I really don’t understand pretending to do Habeas now. It’s far to late for that. Though some or a lot of evaluation is needed.
If they don’t want to go home… we should give them a home in the US.
They can stay in my home, seriously. But no loud praying at midnight and four a.m.
I do find the CNN headline strangely hilarious:
“Obama plans to close Gitmo soon, sources say”
The tense choice implies that he is, in fact, already the president. Just how lame duck can you get, shrub?
Seriously, I’ve got an extra, unused bedroom in my house.
And, I’m already on a bunch of lists, so.
See Lisa Derrick’s post earlier today.
Or, not. It’s got kinda weird comments.
I don’t imagine Robinson will use the opportunity to rip Warren and his legions of bigots but it’s nice to dream.
I want the figure in the graphic to be a ten foot high bronze in the foyer of the cheerleaders library. One can wish.
Yea, well, that’s what we get for hanging around blogs. Ask Tina!
Wait, I just dropped a Cheeto…
Did you read Lisa’s post about that?
It’s good.
Not yet but thanks for the heads up, I’ll check it out later.
Sorry. Stupid here. Tina who?
Put the detainees in GWBush’s new neighborhood in Dallas! As an aside, is their anyway to teleport the entire White House press corps and the network news anchors to a tunnel between Egypt and Gaza?
Today in the DR, Hatians are sold as slaves. They are purchased by wealthy Dominicans in the tobacco and rum business - skills and equipment were brought from the Confederate US by the ancestors of these white Dominicans.
Recently, I knew a Dominican tobacco heiress living in Florida. Silvia employed a nanny, Fabi, who was an illegal worker from Uruguay. Silvia and her family have relocated to Arizona. She took Fabi and Fabi’s children with her. Fabi was a good worker and she was too homely for Silvia’s husband to take any extra-curricular interest in her. That had happened before.
Silvia pondered a way to bring one of her father’s Hatian slaves to the US to use as her personal household servant for free (so to speak).
The individuals I mentioned might consider the idea of using the fifteen worst from Gitmo in a similar capacity. Silvia thinks it is an enterprising idea. /s
yea! I think they should make a point of forcing Wignut Rick to sit next to the Right Honorable Gene Robinson. Then exchange the peace, so that Rick will have to be physically embraced (and kissed?) by Bishop Robinson.
This from today’s TPMMuckraker:
I don’t know the details but when she accepted her Golden Globe, Tina Fey told her critics to “suck it.” Don’t know what bloggers she was referring to but wouldn’t be surprised if some of the wingnuts raked her over the coals for mocking Palin.
Eminent domain would be appropriate, too!
Well now that does open up a wealth of possibilities, though few better than you have suggested.
(Cf. Arlington National Cemetery)
Oh yeah. Crawford was my first thought.
If you have a detainee who’s been convicted by a fair trial of a serious crime, you put him in a regular maximum-security prison, and make sure he’s protected from other inmates. These guys aren’t 10 feet tall; prisons can hold them.
If you have a detainee who fought for the Taliban side during the Afghan war, or for Saddam’s side during the Iraq war: well, that was the government then. He’s a POW. Treat him like one. For the Afghan, he can be confined for the duration of the Afghan war under the same conditions that we would expect a foreign government to detain a US prisoner of war, with Red Cross visits, humane conditions, and everything the Geneva convention requires, with enough security to prevent escape. For the Iraqi, work it out with the new government there.
If you have a detainee who you thought was bad, so you waterboarded him, sleep-deprived him, and destroyed his mind, so you have nothing usable against him but now he wants to kill Americans where he never did before … put him in Dick Cheney’s house. Well, seriously, that’s the real problem, isn’t it? There are probably a few detainees who were not anti-American terrorists before, but are now, because of what we did to them. If the victim hasn’t lost his sanity, generous financial compensation to him and his family, paid out over a number of years, might be appropriate; the money would keep going in exchange for non-aggression.
She’s was hammerin posters actually, not bloggers.
Oh, thank you for the answer to my question.
I’m not up on all the first name/snark names used here.
That Tina. Got it.
The first thing that needs to be done is to have each and every one evaluated by mental health folks. Competent ones. After a number of years in that hellhole many are probably severely psychologically damaged, if not psychotic.
At the same time a boatload of lawyers need to go over whatever evidence the military actually has unrelated to any interrogations under extreme duress.
I’d rather see the detainees held humanely somewhere until a decision can be made in each case as to any possible charges.
Those that are psychologically damaged but considered releasable should be treated so that they can return to society in a more stable condition. A place other than GITMO has to be considered for this. Where is the million dollar question.
Those that are considered for prosecution on valid charges should be, as Kirk said earlier, remanded to the custody of US Marshalls.
Harrumph, that evil mainstream media is calling posters blogger. . .the noive!
isn’t there a nice highland ranch in Wyoming available for this purpose, as well?
Boink! Right between the eyes.
Hugs to you.
After release of the innocents, maybe the questionable/hard core should own Guantanamo Bay for the remainder of their lives. Food, medical supplies, clothing, blankets, religious supplies, etc., supplied at American taxpayer expense. (Better yet at Bush/Cheney expense) Opportunity for work and family should be given as well.
What I’d like to see
After all of the prisoners have filed out of the prison, give each of them an RPG launcher and one round. Let them each have a shot at blowing the place up or bouncing the rubble. Let them cheer, film it and let the world see that America is back.
( it wouldn’t hurt to notice who seems to know how to use the weapon.)
After all the delay, torture, malfeasance, and misfeasance of the federal not to mention ignoring the rule of law and the denial of habeas corpus, these guys should be adjudicated in a real legal system, i.e. the federal courts. While torture taints some cases or some parts of some cases, I would point anyone to the Padilla and Moussaoui cases to show how easy it is despite massive bungling to gain a conviction on terrorism charges in this country. And I see no problem with why uncharged detainees can’t make habeas claims. It has been after all nearly 7 years since Gitmo was created.
Process: rule of extant law and extant courts works fine with me.
I spent Bush’s first year or so assessing my surmise that he and his crew were as virulently opposed to the true foundations of this country, with the sole possible exception of now-repudiated slavery, as one could dread without losing one’s own mind thinking about it.
When they started continually promoting the rhetoric that our legal system by assumption could not handle the incarceration and adjudication of cases regarding those they expected to arrest or capture, that pretty much decided the matter for me, or anyway finished what their “judicial” theft of the office started.
Should read:
After all the delay, torture, malfeasance, and misfeasance of the federal government not to mention . . .
Also, there was that native born US kid who was forced to give up his citizenship and then deported to Saudi Arabia (effectively, exhile or banishment). His citizenship shold be restored. Banishment, as a punishment, is unconstitutional, and not practice since Loving in VA, I believe.
Digg it. Anybody know how to change the accompanying graphic on Digg?
Hey, Ian is up with a new post to OBAMA. Health Care.
All 250 of the remaining Gitmo “detainees” are certainly “dangerous.” Those who are members of Al Qaeda were dangerous to begin with, but those who were innocent of wanting/trying to harm the U.S. are righteously pissed off, and way more dangerous, and will be more dangerous yet after they talk to an attorney. And, if the attorneys can’t help, they can always contact Big Louie from Long Beach. What the hell would you do?
As I understand it one of the “boom” industries in this nation is the private prison industry, to the point where companies are building prisons without any contracts, “on spec.” I’m sure prison cells can be found. Where to house them is the least of the problems. How many are, at this point, capable of assisting in their defense? Will any of them believe that a transfer to humane conditions, with access to attorneys and psychologists (imperative) is anything other than a ploy? Where to put them is the easiest problem to solve.
I remember lhp, myself, and many others saying years ago that there would come a day of reckoning when we would have to deal with the results of Bush’s refusal to engage in a real legal process. It would have been so much simpler if those caught had been processed, charged, tried, and where appropriate convicted and punished. But the Bush Administration had this obsession with the mirage of “actionable intelligence.” They wanted to interrogate and torture because they were mesmerized by the BS they were getting. What we are left with is what we said would happen. Bush got no intelligence and indefinite detention, torture, and mistreatment have greatly complicated how we can deal with those detainees who remain. But that is what the courts are for to address complicated legal issues.
LHP:
Got it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwp_CNPYv5g
… just kidding *g*
Ha! Email me when Obama is going to listen to Ian.
First, along with releasing intent to close Gitmo info, Obama should be stating that all current activities designed to gather information at Gitmo will cease immediately. Second, send in a new unit to relieve those currently in charge. Allow people to see daylight, see another, converse when possible — anything and everything to establish what we refer to as normal behavior. This process will be shocking and disturbing to some, but support it in anticipation of bring all these people to one location in the US very, very soon. Then, all almost all activity involving detainees and process to be filmed unless intrusive into the detainee’s lives.
Take steps to release, charge, provide care, etc. should be done as quickly as possible. No one should remain in custody without being charged with something. The entire corrective measure should be understandable and fairly presented to the ill-informed American.
No country would be interested in taking Gitmo people as they are now — and detainees should have considerable input into their own futures.
Yaser Esam Hamdi, a 28-year old native of Baton Rouge, LA.
As his U.S. citizenship was acquired in much the same way that, for instance, mine was (see also the section on “Loss of Citizenship”), I hope a way is found to re-examine this case, whether Mr. Hamdi himself would ever care to set foot here again or not.
I think we should get our money back on the prisoners who were bought from Pakistan by the Bush Regime (to fill up GITMO to make it look like Georgie was tough on terror!), use the money to prosecute George Bush, and then send these prisoners back to Pakistan where they belong.
Don’t know if it is possible to change a graphic once it has been submitted and the Digg accepted.
But when you are doing the submission, there should be a choice available including “No Thumbnail”.
I’ve noticed that Havana graphic (think it’s for a book of some sort or ad). Like other aspects of Digg, it is not easily puzzled out.
what about returning guantanamo to the cubans? we don’t really have any legitimate rights to it?
ADX Florence is a Supermax facility in the federal prison system. It houses Ramzi Yousef, Omar Abdel-Rahman, among others.
Leavenworth is an alternative, except most of the major politicians including Sibelius have come out against using Leavenworth to house Gitmo prisoners. As if Kansas would be any more or less of a terrorist target if they succeed in preventing a transfer.
Send ‘em all ta fuckin’ Texas and give ‘em Section 8 vouchers for Chimp’s new neighborhood
you’d think a smart fella like Obama would have figured this out by now (seeing how as he’s had since November)
Citizen looseheadprop:
If we are really a nation under “the rule of law” then they stand trial in our courts and if we can’t convict ‘em under our rules of evidence then they go free…that’s the price of carryin’ out an unlawful military adventure in a democracy. You don’t seriously think there is any other alternative do ya CitizenLHP?
Apparently, the lease runs until both sides agree to terminate it. I know the Cubans agreed to terminate it about 1967 or so, when Castro personally turned off the water to the base.
P.S. and if we REALLY wanned ta fuck with the Saudis we could send ‘em all back to let the Saudi Royal family deal with ‘em…I’d LOVE ta see that.
In order to answer this, we need more info from BO
How many do you (Obama) plan on taking to trial?
High value detainees only? Or all? Where to send the ones who are released? Found innocent? What mental / medical help are they entitled to? Can they sue for unlawful detention?
Second, those going to trial should get Habeas hearings within … what’s reasonable?
Will they be tried in military tribunals or civilian courts?
If military tribunals, will they all be separate trials or joint trials? And how many in joint trials?
What are the rules of evidence? What about appeals? To Whom?
I would think that there can’t be too many high value detainees, so Leavenworth? And / or ???
If tried in civilian courts all the rules are in place and there are two centuries worth of judicial precedent. And high value targets can and have been tried, even as recently as 2000
PDF warning - http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/repor.....indict.pdf
And you can use the detention centers already built by halliburton
http://www.projectcensored.org.....in-the-us/
How many are in Gitmo now? 500? There can’t be more than 20 or 30 who are high value, even if there are 50 or 60 there’s still plenty of room for either choice
Just off the top of my head, but your mileage may vary
Obama to Close Gitmo — Where To Put the “High Value” Detainees?
Crawford, Tx.
PPS
Just lettin’ ya know the Raven was asking about you today. Hopin’ yur ticker’s doing good.
ditto
Hi Norske. Good to see you. Happy New Year!
Give them each $20,000, a fresh set of clothes and passage to the destination of their choice.
If they really are “high value”, their subsequent activities will give us much more information than torturing them ever could.
The best place for these detainees would be, equally divided, in George Bush’s and Dick Cheney’s basements. Believe both are building splendid mansions, and, using the spoils of their 8 year rape of the country’s coffers would have plenty to host these persons they were most anxious to invite over to our country’s special territory for some water(boarding) and eats– even insisting upon tube-feeding the eats upon occasion to assure the detainees would be around when they left office, which, as it happens is now– so, yes, let them take up the slack until permanent homes for their guests can be found. Georgie and Dickie won’t have much to do now anyway will they? They have the secret service to help, local protective agencies will be on hand to assure the guests’ safety etc. Perhaps a perfect solution to this knotty problem.
/s
closing guantanamo, part 1.
comment 5.
protest the hamsher censorship.
oh, because of past hamsher erasures, you can find this at washingtonmonthly.com.
also at pilotsfor911truth.com. in the lobby. under torture.