Comments on: Falling Short: Regular Americans vs. the Cash Cow Greedy Gravy Train http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:38:46 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: wesgpc http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790250 wesgpc Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:06:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790250 <p>There is another important thing that Krugman has realized, and I think it is very important: the US economy has been so damaged and gutted by bad policy over the last decade (that includes that last 2-3 yrs of the Clinton era) that one bais assumption of the “Summer’s” approach will likely not work to restore anything like full employment at good livable jobs. One of Summer’s principles is that the fiscual stimulus should be very big, very fast, and designed to fade away as soon as possible leaving no trace in what is assumed to be a well functioning market economy.</p> <p>I think Krugman senses that something is wrong with this. To me, it is summarized by his comment that an economy that is built around selling houses to each other using money borrowed from the Chinese is not a feasible business model. But that is what our economy has been. Another way to look at it is that, as Krugman has also commented, the US economy has lived on a series of bubbles that the Cheney/Bush team and Greenspan unsuccessfully attempted to ‘manage’ over the last eight years. Again, some aspects of this started in the last years of the Clinton era, and is to some extent due to flaws in that famous ‘Rubinomics’ -but Cheney/bush took those flaws and made them the centerpiece of macroeconomic and financial policy, which has lead us and the world, to the brink of disaster.</p> <p>I think Krugman still thinks of this in terms of the stimulus is not big enough becuase the slump will be longer than usual. I think he is going to some extent on intuition, here. But I think the problem is more severe -seriouis long run distortions in capital allocation and regulation of the financial markets, and corporate tax policy have seriously damaged the productive potential of the economy.</p> <p>To plug Stiglitz again, I think he is the only mainstream celebrity economist who has both the theory (which predicted pretty well what has happened) and the data to really explain the problem. Like it or not, there are long run structural problems that must be fixed, and a standard countercyclical stimulus approach will not be very successful.</p> <p>I am not criticizing Krugman, since his specialities are international trade and international financial crises. One of Stiglitz’s specialty is the problems of informational and incentive distortions in insurance, financial and credit markets, and tracing those problems from microeconomic effects on the “real” economy (ie, real houses and real living standards) through to macro and international markets.</p> <p>Anyway, this comment ends with another plug to search “Joseph Stiglitz homepage’ and read his stuff -and I hope he keeps up his commentary on current policy developments.</p> There is another important thing that Krugman has realized, and I think it is very important: the US economy has been so damaged and gutted by bad policy over the last decade (that includes that last 2-3 yrs of the Clinton era) that one bais assumption of the “Summer’s” approach will likely not work to restore anything like full employment at good livable jobs. One of Summer’s principles is that the fiscual stimulus should be very big, very fast, and designed to fade away as soon as possible leaving no trace in what is assumed to be a well functioning market economy.

I think Krugman senses that something is wrong with this. To me, it is summarized by his comment that an economy that is built around selling houses to each other using money borrowed from the Chinese is not a feasible business model. But that is what our economy has been. Another way to look at it is that, as Krugman has also commented, the US economy has lived on a series of bubbles that the Cheney/Bush team and Greenspan unsuccessfully attempted to ‘manage’ over the last eight years. Again, some aspects of this started in the last years of the Clinton era, and is to some extent due to flaws in that famous ‘Rubinomics’ -but Cheney/bush took those flaws and made them the centerpiece of macroeconomic and financial policy, which has lead us and the world, to the brink of disaster.

I think Krugman still thinks of this in terms of the stimulus is not big enough becuase the slump will be longer than usual. I think he is going to some extent on intuition, here. But I think the problem is more severe -seriouis long run distortions in capital allocation and regulation of the financial markets, and corporate tax policy have seriously damaged the productive potential of the economy.

To plug Stiglitz again, I think he is the only mainstream celebrity economist who has both the theory (which predicted pretty well what has happened) and the data to really explain the problem. Like it or not, there are long run structural problems that must be fixed, and a standard countercyclical stimulus approach will not be very successful.

I am not criticizing Krugman, since his specialities are international trade and international financial crises. One of Stiglitz’s specialty is the problems of informational and incentive distortions in insurance, financial and credit markets, and tracing those problems from microeconomic effects on the “real” economy (ie, real houses and real living standards) through to macro and international markets.

Anyway, this comment ends with another plug to search “Joseph Stiglitz homepage’ and read his stuff -and I hope he keeps up his commentary on current policy developments.

]]> By: STTPinOhio http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790114 STTPinOhio Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:04:40 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790114 <p>Excellent post, Christy!</p> <p>Particular thanks for the 60 minutes link.</p> <p>I would’ve hated to miss that oil speculation segment.</p> Excellent post, Christy!

Particular thanks for the 60 minutes link.

I would’ve hated to miss that oil speculation segment.

]]> By: Hugh http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790109 Hugh Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:38:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790109 <p>I am one of the ones who have written about excess speculation in oil for a long time. It is good to see CBS cover it but in addition to not naming names, I would also point out that this report, like all these belated realizations in the media, could have and should have been done a long time ago. I would note too that the era of excess speculation began back in 2004 (when oil increased by a third over the year) essentially at the same time that the housing bubble really took off. This is unsurprising the same forces driving the one drove the other. I cover this in item 365 of my scandals list. I haven’t updated it to cover the big fall off but basically it happened because speculative money fled the market because credit dried up and made it difficult to run the speculation and because what money speculators did have they needed to cover their losses in housing and the falling stock markets.</p> I am one of the ones who have written about excess speculation in oil for a long time. It is good to see CBS cover it but in addition to not naming names, I would also point out that this report, like all these belated realizations in the media, could have and should have been done a long time ago. I would note too that the era of excess speculation began back in 2004 (when oil increased by a third over the year) essentially at the same time that the housing bubble really took off. This is unsurprising the same forces driving the one drove the other. I cover this in item 365 of my scandals list. I haven’t updated it to cover the big fall off but basically it happened because speculative money fled the market because credit dried up and made it difficult to run the speculation and because what money speculators did have they needed to cover their losses in housing and the falling stock markets.

]]> By: demi http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790101 demi Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:59:55 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790101 <p>Ah, missed that. I’m learning as I grow. Again, thanks for all the information and education. You are a true gem.</p> Ah, missed that. I’m learning as I grow. Again, thanks for all the information and education. You are a true gem.

]]> By: alank http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790096 alank Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:49:40 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790096 <p>You couldn’t convince Scarecrow that the price hikes in oil were due to speculation. For the longest time his view was the prevailing one here, despite the bleeding obvious. This government has been one big crime wave, going back to Clinton. With the return of the Clintonites, don’t expect to see any changes for the better.</p> You couldn’t convince Scarecrow that the price hikes in oil were due to speculation. For the longest time his view was the prevailing one here, despite the bleeding obvious. This government has been one big crime wave, going back to Clinton. With the return of the Clintonites, don’t expect to see any changes for the better.

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790093 Christy Hardin Smith Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:45:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790093 <p>New Senate has already been sworn in (absent the IL and MN seats being finalized), so we’re working with the composition of the 111th Congress, not the 110th.</p> New Senate has already been sworn in (absent the IL and MN seats being finalized), so we’re working with the composition of the 111th Congress, not the 110th.

]]> By: demi http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790083 demi Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:38:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790083 <p>I’ve never followed politics this close before. What a tremendous task this transition will be. Can’t wait until they are all in office to start nomination hearings. Must be working in front of the train. But, it’s the current Senate that will be holding the hearings. Interesting. Complicated.</p> I’ve never followed politics this close before. What a tremendous task this transition will be. Can’t wait until they are all in office to start nomination hearings. Must be working in front of the train. But, it’s the current Senate that will be holding the hearings. Interesting. Complicated.

]]> By: demi http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790075 demi Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:34:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790075 <p>PS, the earlier proffered biscuits were made to go with sonny’s breakfast soup. First day back to school.<br /> The adult breakfast is now ready. Strawberry/banana/grapes salad with yogurt and a few walnuts. I am determined to clean up my act.</p> PS, the earlier proffered biscuits were made to go with sonny’s breakfast soup. First day back to school.
The adult breakfast is now ready. Strawberry/banana/grapes salad with yogurt and a few walnuts. I am determined to clean up my act.

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790073 Christy Hardin Smith Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:33:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790073 <p>Well, for one thing, they aren’t yet in office…so they don’t know what they have or don’t have in terms of information sitting in various agency files. It’s tough to say what you will do when you don’t know what all you are facing in terms of evidence outright. That’s just for starters.</p> <p>And it’s DC. They hedge on everything. SIGH So, we keep pushing for what we want until we get it. It’s what we do. *g*</p> Well, for one thing, they aren’t yet in office…so they don’t know what they have or don’t have in terms of information sitting in various agency files. It’s tough to say what you will do when you don’t know what all you are facing in terms of evidence outright. That’s just for starters.

And it’s DC. They hedge on everything. SIGH So, we keep pushing for what we want until we get it. It’s what we do. *g*

]]> By: demi http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790069 demi Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:30:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/falling-short-regular-americans-vs-the-cash-cow-greedy-gravy-train/#comment-1790069 <p>Thanks. As Tom Petty puts it, the waiting is the hardest part.<br /> You’re correct to keep us focused on pushing for sunlight. Keeps us all from getting worse mouth wounds from all the tongue biting.<br /> Are aides usually so tight lipped, or is there anything to ponder about why they aren’t saying anything?</p> Thanks. As Tom Petty puts it, the waiting is the hardest part.
You’re correct to keep us focused on pushing for sunlight. Keeps us all from getting worse mouth wounds from all the tongue biting.
Are aides usually so tight lipped, or is there anything to ponder about why they aren’t saying anything?

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