Morning, Christy – I got interested in college because I saw how damn unfair everything was for women in the workplace.

Morning Toby — so many things in life to make better, eh?

Good morning from CT!I’m hoping to miss the bad weather that is barreling down on the east coast, my flight back is at noon.

I guess I have always been interested in it since I picked mcGovern when i was 5 years old. My liberalism was partly formed as a reaction to the conservative zombies i sometimes found myself surrounded with.

Yep…all we can do is start at the top of the list and work our way down.
Is it snowing there? It’s very cold here but no snow. So much for Accuweather, eh?

Morning Christy and Pups, great topic worthy of discussion. Drawn to “liberal” politics after a discussion with a Marine just back from Vietnam in the mid Sixties. Told a story of fire fight in a small hamlet where we had to take the life of a man in the village. After the skirmish a small boy sat down next to the body of the man and began crying and wailing. At the point the Marine said he realized he had just taken the life of this little boy’s father. At this point in the Marines story, tears were streaming down his cheeks. At that moment I became a “liberal.”

G’morning, everyone, from the state that gave us Hubert Humphrey, Paul Wellstone, Walter Mondale and Jesse Ventura. Okay, three out of four isn’t bad.

Morning, Barbara – even Ventura was a trailbreaker in his own way. Wasn’t he one of the first to use the INternet to campaign? Minne-snow-ta does itself proud.

Good morning, Christy. I got interested because of Bobby Kennedy. I still can’t watch film of him without weeping. As far as the lean times go, I’m brown-bagging my lunch, we invested in a freezer so we can take advantage of sales, I’m enlarging the veggie garden and trying to figure out how to deal with squash vine borers and whatever attacks my tomatoes, and we’ve pretty much done away with “luxuries.” We’re lucky compared to so many others.

A friend from Europe asked me the following question yesterday:

Even conservative economists acknowledge that stimulus money would do more for the economy if it were given to poor people, e.g., as food stamps. Yet, even the Democrats don’t put the stimulus money there. Why?

I can only come to one conclusion: Conservatives are simply mean, and Democrats are somehow intimidate by them.

How’s it going? Hopefully it does not take to long before you also have another liberal senator.

Great post, I found it (and some of the above comments) pretty moving on this cold, snowy Saturday morning.

I was raised in a good conservative, Republican family, but when I got to college the cognitive dissonance got to be too great and I finally came around.

My family’s politics and quite frankly my family’s Christianity didn’t jive with the actual teachings of Christ — nor my conscience for that matter.

Now I’m both politically and theologically liberal.

New Deal liberalism works. Most of the industrialism is practicing some form of it, and the quality-of-life statistic bear witness.

My influences were the Sermon on the Mount, taken seriously by my parents. The ones in the shadows came to our doors. One, a man beset with severe paranoia and severe hoarding, would silently appear at the door and sit in our living room at times. Mom would feed him, Dad would talk gently to him. By their example, I was taught that he was valued, even if he rarely talked.

My parents put up a family from Mexico whose car broke down in our town. They stayed a week. They sponsored a family from Laos and another one from Cambodia, one with five children living with them for several months in the small house built by my father in the 40’s.

We didn’t have much; what we had was shared. My husband came from a very different tradition, so we feel our way to where we go. But as I write this, I realize that much more sharing must be in our future

My family’s politics and quite frankly my family’s Christianity didn’t jive with the actual teachings of Christ — nor my conscience for that matter.

If Jesus Christ were alive today, he’d roll over in his grave.

Not so much the Internet, but he began his gubernatorial stint (weird word; always reminds me of peanuts) in a very principled, somewhat revolutionary way, and until he went tilt with the press and the public, even his detractors were grudgingly impressed by his approach to things.

My parents were both active in the small community that we lived in. We would often have lively political discussions, where one could express their own opinion. Although they were liberal by nature, their children are pretty mixed.

I’m bewildered by the greedy, “I’ve got mine, screw you” mentality I hear from so many people who call themselves religious these days and are also wingnutty. That’s not the teachings of Christ that I remember from all my readings of the New Testament. The only thing I could figure out is that the cognitive dissonance must be deafening them to actual sermons on Sundays…or the teachings they are hearing are not right.

My grandpa was a minister and, growing up, if I’d said something like “those people just need to get a job and stop being so lazy if their children are hungry,” I would have gotten a long, angry lecture and a month’s worth of volunteering at the local homeless shelter as penance.

Oh, and for lean times we have a lot of canned garden items in the cellar, a freezer full of our own beef and some local pork sausage and we gather about three dozen eggs a day from our free-range chickens.

We’re also re-financing our house which is going to lower our monthly payment by about $300.

Of course we’re about to send our troubled, 12-year-old son off to a special school next month that will cost us $750 per month. So we’re not really coming out ahead financially.

Maybe it began when, as a child, I collected the photos of the Kennedy kids that came in bubble gum packages (like baseball cards). Or maybe it was because my father was so very civic-minded. Or maybe it was because my early years were filled with such inspiring leaders.
I, too, loved Bobby Kennedy. He was killed when I was in 8th grade. My class went on an overnight trip to Montreal and as we left the hotel for our tour, we passed a tv showing the funeral. I remember thinking we shouldn’t keep going. I wanted to stay back and mourn.

Oh, fine Barbara, make me think of the wonderful list of characters that we in California have brought to the table…Nixon, Reagan, Daryl Issa. But, we have Jerry Brown, which reminds me I want to google search what’s up with the Prop 8.
(I’m still contemplating my answer to CHS’ questions.)

My mother was a friend of Mrs Henry Cabot Lodge whose husband was Nixons running mate in 1960. As a HS freshman I was tasked w/ working at repub hdqrtrs 1 afternoon a week. The rest of the time I was enthralled w/ Kennedy to the extent that I even played hooky to go see him. Became quite a bit more lefty after the army in college’
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Must make coffee now…brb

Those of us in our 50’s also had music inspiring us. Not so much the young people today.

hehehe..and all I can say for New York is that we are open minded enough upstate to give a home to Bobby Kennedy and Hillary Clinton – but I balance that off with idiots like Giuiliani. And, ahem, Spitzer(’nuff said).

I grew up in a union and pretty much liberal household. My mother is canadian and never gave up her citizenship, but it has never stopped her from voicing her opinion of our leaders, either. She and dad have always been in agreement with regards to that, and i grew up that way myself as an adopted child by them. We took in a lot of other kids as the years went by, providing a stable home and i’ve been both the little sister and the big sister even though those children never were able to stay with us. Eventually one of them did, and he’s been my younger brother for almost 2 decades, for all he frustrates the hell out of us some days. *grin*

So a lot of that shaped the way i think, even though i didn’t come into any interest in politics until about 1992, when i was 14 and the election of Bill Clinton to office. But i still didn’t go into detail until 2006 and start digging for things i knew were important.

…or the teachings they are hearing are not right.

Sadly, I’m afraid that’s the case all too often. But I’m doing what I can to help improve the situation from the inside (and I’m hardly alone).

My uncle held a fund raiser for Henry Cabot Lodge and recruited myself and a few friends to help serve drinks. The parties have moved so right that Lodge would be a democrat today.

Those of us un our sixties too *g*
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How did I get interested in Liberalism?

Logic.

Modern-day Republicanism will always lead to mass starvation and hysteria. It’s simply the logical outcome of their economic Darminist philosophies. It truly is the GOP: “Got Our’s, Piss-off.”

We’re getting a little taste of it right now with the Great Depression II: Electric Boogaloo. Most Liberals I know have been predicting this current crisis since the 1990s (probably many way before that time). It was obvious that it’s not sustainable in the long-term. Clinton was a little speedbump to the collapse even though Bill advanced most of the same stuff, and notice how just the slightest bit of Liberalism made things so much better (although still based on fake “prosperity” during the Clinton years). Imagine a massive Liberal takeover of collective thought. It would be a freakin uptopia. Instead, Repub thought will lead to a world similar to the movie “Bladerunner.” Always.

How to prepare? Our whole family is learning how to live off the land much better. We’d be doing that no matter what with organic gardening and such, but it’s more urgent now and I’ve added hunting and firearms skills to my own training. It’s all rather fun and bonding for the fam regardless of what’s happening societally.

Even if they’re able to prop up the sham for another few decades, this will all be good for our family no matter what. Self-sufficiency and all that jazz.

Our children have complained about our intense frugality. Until now.

They will both emerge from college debt free because of scholarships and the savings of their parents and grandparents. This was important to us so we all saved and expect to accomplish this. My daughter is now the informal financial advisor to her friends, trying to help them get their credit bills down. She is fighting a big tide of impulsivity and immediate gratification among her peer group, though.

We keep downsizing, after 24 years of children in the house. We plan on another big round this spring. Less to take care of, less to clutter up. We’ve had eight moves or changes in who lives in the household since 2004 (had some international students living with us, moved to NZ and back, to KS, to MT, kids off to college, people who couldn’t afford rent moving in for a respite). Husband will be 65 shortly and plans to work until 70, if he can keep finding work. We went out to eat this week for the first time since early November.

Do you think that part of the issue is that people are now so removed from the Great Depression? People who were the age to get elected were old enough during the 30s to really see how bad it could get for people. I think they were effected by that. People in their 60s like Cheney now had not experience with that.

THe Christians are just as adept at twisting the message as are the Taliban or any other religious sect.I don’t trust organized religion ,I think there is a lot of hipocracy out there.
I wonder what Jesus would think if he ever saw one of these mega-church palaces!

Got that right. The Republican Party of Eisenhower, Lodge, Rockefeller and here in Michigan William Milliken is dead, replaced by far right wing ideologues that have more in common with the neo-fascist parties of Europe.

Ya sure. And let’s not be forgetting Senator Franken.

Good morning everyone.

It’s all intuitive to me. It’s not even a hesitation to help, it’s natural. My parents were of little means, and they always showed us how to help out when growing up. I think in this country a lot of folks allowed our prosperity to get the best of them, and were manipulated by conservatives to gain power. First it was greed, and then it was fear. Neither of which is sustainable.

To handle the lean times ahead, I’m going to roll with it. I’ve never seem times in my life when I was flush with material wealth so I do know what to do. I have to say though the prospect of being unemployed in three weeks with mortgage is daunting.

I think as we move forward a good opportunity will present itself for the social business model put forth by Professor Yunus. Profits for social benefits don’t encourage corruption. They empower all who are involved. I’m exploring that as my future.

Repub thought will lead to a world similar to the movie “Bladerunner.” Always.

I’m often amazed at how prophetic the movie RoboCop was!

Good morning Christy. Nice post and topic. I think I’m older than the average FDL addict and think I must have had an FDR mobile hanging over my crib or something. My Dad was a printer and union organizer and came from a long line of printers and teachers. Although the south was solid democratic, my family was different, in that they were liberals. My earliest political memories are of seeing my parent’s elation when Truman beat Dewey in 1948, watching the Democratic convention on our first television set in 1952, and seeing my parents cheer during the Army-McCarthy hearings, when Joseph Welch said, “At long last, sir, have you no decency?”

I grew up on stories of the Depression. I think we were actually still recovering from it during most of my childhood and youth. At this stage, the only thing I know to do is keep my eyes open, to buy some large house if possible, so that my kids and their families can have a place to live if they need to. Most homes served as enlarged family dwellings during the Depression. It would take our last little nestegg, but may be necessary and would be better than dribbling out if my kids start losing their jobs.

“Bladerunner” analogy is a good one. Another film that is a glimpse of a Republican created world is the distopian “Escape from New York.”

I grew up in a staunch Republican household. I was taught that FDR was the worst president ever. That Hubert Humphrey was a babbling a**hole. (My father was, shall we say, outspokenly profane.) That welfare is a handout scam for people who are lazy and devious. I worked on several high level Republican campaigns in the day. My grandfather was a state legislator (Republican). To the extent I ever really thought about it, I guess I believed that Republican was my heritage and evermore must I follow that path. It was more about habit than principles.

Along came a small Presbyterian church where we gravitated in that familiar parental mode of ‘needing to get the kiddos involved in church.’ The pastor was Princeton-educated, immensely smart and articulate, and an ardent social justice liberal. He and his wife totally walked the proverbial talk, living simply, being activists, and encouraging us to think deeply about the ways of the world.

It was an absolute revelation (no pun intended) for me. I like to believe I’d have seen the light left to my own devices, but I’m not certain. But that’s where the inexorable shift to left without ever looking back began. Mostly I did social justice activism. Peacemaking stuff. Working with the elderly. Environmental stuff. I began doing some writing around social justice issues. But I was no longer involved in political campaigns as I had been in my Republican era.

Then one horrible, terrible day, Paul Wellstone died. That was a pivotal moment for me (and for many others, I’ve learned). I was in my car when I heard the news, and I had to pull over because I couldn’t see for the deluge of tears. Sometimes I think I should go back to that place and plant a flower or something to mark the spot on my personal path where I said to myself, “Hey, you! It is time to get out there and do something about the things Paul and others championed.”

So kinda DINO for a while. Epiphany. All y’all know the rest.

You referring to one of those salvation marts
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‘Nuff said. (That be a great moniker, wouldn’t it?)
I grew up in a conservative Republican home too. Parents took me to church, where mom sang in the choir and dad was involved on committees. They taught me to listen to what Jesus said. When I was about Jr. High age, I asked the pastor, what about my friends who were born Jews, what would happen to them? I was told, that if people follow the faith of their fathers and were loving, things would work out for them.
Then I was invited to the bar mitsvah of a friend in the band at school. My first dip into someone else’s religion/culture. We became fast friends, and I would go to his house to help him make protest posters, campaign posters for the student body positions he ran for – and always won. I delighted at the liberal political conversations in that home. And, he “turned me on” to more and more political philosophy and actions. We protested the war together, talked about Eugene McCarthy, etc. After we graduated HS, we lost touch with each other until I saw his name on a front page article at Salon about the stolen votes in Florida. I emailed him and we have reclaimed out friendship. I’m grateful for the friendship then that introduced me to liberal values and I’m proud to be considered a friend of Greg Palast.

…Or maybe it was the (much maligned) Catholic school.

Short answer, GREED! Long answer the Catholic Church that I grew up in has become more interested in the unborn then the born. I hate to make such a generalized statement but it does seem that conservative churches have become more interested wealth and passing off the poor as lazy. Some of my angst about the conservative churches could be that I have lived in the south to long.

Great story.

Yunus and the like are fantastic! A friend just came back from visiting the Mondragon Co-ops in Spain. Was just blown away with how well they’re doing (something like $5 BILLION in revenue now!).
http://www.justpeace.org/mondragon.htm

History shows that Liberal solutions actually work on a large scale even.

Great post!
I got interested in civics class in HS, when I wrote a paper on the destruction of the planet. I was appalled. I was 14 years old.
I WISH my parents had talked about politics but everyone was too busy watching my father drink himself to death.

Nonetheless, when I hit university in 1968, the hippies were there! The rest is Herstory!

What I’ve been doing to prepare for the starvation times
ahead is make sure I don’t get into debt at all. My house and car are fully paid off long ago. As a member of the “shadow people” I watch what these thieves are trying to do the poor and fight them every step of the way. I think of how many folks I can take into my house, if it comes to
that and what possible building materials for shelter I have or can get.
Making friends with my neighbors is a top priority, since I think we’ll need each other; small community organizing is very important, IMO.
thanks for the post, Christy!

Wow!

I attended Parochial school ,taught by the Sisters Of St Ann.
The sisters may have been very conservative on some issues ,abortion comes to mind.They were liberal on many others they took the teaching in the Bible very seriously especially the parts about helping your fellow man.
I don’t remember the scriptures we studied ,but I remember the message .

I am my brother’s keeper!!

I believe in the message,I try to live my life like that every day.
I just don’t have much faith in the current crop of messengers !

Thanks for the link. I’ll have to check them out. Yunus is my new hero. Thanks to FDL I found about him.

I am constitutionally incapable of telling my story(ies) in one piece.

My drift and then march to the left was a major wedge between me and my -ex. He remains unapologetically Republican and lives like one. My op-eds and LTEs in the newspaper, along with some commentaries on MPR, moved David’s Christian-right DIL to send me a blistering email a few years ago, telling me that my opinions offended her and that I would have to choose between expressing my political opinions publicly and maintaining my relationship with David’s family. When he read the email, David looked up at me and said quietly, “Well, that’s a no-brainer!” Did I ever tell you that I loved that guy? *g*

Morning, Christy. One of our neighbors who has no place else to go lives with us. I’ve developed a sudden interest in urban farming. Since New Orleans has such a long growing season, I’ve already started the greens. I’m working with a non-profit that promotes mental health (we’re all Bozos on this bus) and also trying to get others interested in raising food here in town. As you can imagine, the soil is not in good shape, so I’m raising my stuff in pots for now while trying to reclaim the soil in my yard.

My parents lived through the Great Depression too. They raised me to be liberal/populist.

I attended Catholic Schools in MA when JFK was running for president. Talk about activist nuns! The school that I went to helped Holy Joe’s wife’s parents when they moved. Both her parents were holocaust survivors. Their was not talk about conversion and her father became the local rabbi. Although Catholics, of course, had a special place in heaven, there was never indication that Jewish folks weren’t allowed. (lutherans, maybe)

While I too went to parochial school I now feel that we would be better off if we recognized the old test. as a hate doctrine.
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But Demi, take heart…TX gave us 2 Bushs, but think W, and Tom DeLay…but also LBJ, Sam Rayburn…

11 days left, another good decision about not allowing secrecy by W’s folks. Nice

We’re going to plant a few extra tomatoes this year, too. With an extra adult in the house, I thought it was a good idea to try and figure out a way to get a few more fresh veggies into the garden.

Ahem, Barbara – I almost spit my tea all over the keyboard here…David – Whatta Guy!!

If you are running out of space, you can always try our trick with plastic milk jugs – works for peppers and that sized plant. Or a big heavy black plastic bag will hold two tomato plants – water through slits in the bag..the black will keep their feet warm. They like that.

Oh, Barbara. Love Remains.

Fresh fruits and vegetables are what we’re supposed to be eating most of, but they just keep going up. All the “comfort food” has taken its toll. The extra work will be good for me.

Urban farming is a great idea. I’m going to try and convince city officials to change the ordinance to allow the raising of rabbits and chickens (no roosters) within the city limits.

Then you were in class when JFK’s death was announced. I was only in 4th grade but I remember the shock on Sister Mary Immaculate Heart’s face (no kidding, that was her name). No one cried in front of us, but we were dismissed almost immediately and I have a feeling there were some tears after we left.

Tomatoes sure do love that. We used black plastic in my parent’s garden to retain heat and moisture and to block weeds.

I can also attribute some of my librul leanings,to the influence of two of my aunts.
My aunts attended U Mass during the late 60’s and early 70’s, The hippy movement was alive and well at that time
and anti-war protests were daily occurenses .
Between my family and the influence of my teachers I have developed a liberal attitude ,and I couldn’t imagine being any different !

Yuppers, he was. And really, it was pretty amazing. Before I came along, he was trending moderate to right of center. And he was an immensely private man. So you can kinda picture what happened to his life when motor-mouth entered the picture (that would be me), and eventually took my preaching to the press, the airwaves, the Internet. He was very proud of all of that, and I think it did have an impact on his political and social justice thinking. I don’t think he’d mind my telling that four days before he died, we filled out our (notorious) MN absentee ballots, and he voted straight Dem. Booyah!!!!

This is not so much a memorial to David as testament to the fact that we all can make a difference, even one person at a time, and sometimes that difference is not as dramatic as saving someone from drowning (though that’s probably an apt metaphor for Republicans who still have souls).

We are allowed to keep chickens here. I’ve found a source for some young hens, and I thought I’d start with two.

I always remember someone telling me that the sign of an intelligent life form was the ability to learn and change. David was a real gift – and was obviously a ferociously intelligent life form. :)

For you…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx-UP1Pa-Ao
Grab a hankie, and know that I’m holding your hand.

Why am I a liberal?

There are of course many many reasons too numerous to list. Maybe what really motivates me is the bullshit. How I hate the bullshit! The overdose of it from conservatives these many years is unbearable.

They must know it. They can’t deceive themselves that much can they? The “water boarding is not torture” is the worst. If we don’t get justice around that…then what?

And you can use the manure to help reclaim your soil.

“…ferociously intelligent life form. :)

LOL. I am SO going to save this one, TW!

What is your mental health project? I know NO lost so much in mh resources after Katrina.

On raising tomatoes, I wanted to pass along a tip that my 80 yr old brother in law gave me. If you have a tomato plant, instead of just digging a hole and putting the plant in that, dig a trench, lay the plant in that with just the tip above ground. They develop a better root system, are more resistant to disease and produce fruit longer. I can vouch for that, having seen his plants and eaten the fruit.

…only if she composts it first. Chicken manure is very harsh..very high in ammonia..you need to compost that stuff for like…a year…I once killed an entire bed of tomato plants side dressing with that stuff…great once it’s been composted, deadly fresh.

Does any one have experience growing veggies hydroponically ?
This might be a good way to get a year round crop of fresh veggies !

Not a film, but Orwell’s 1984 has more meaning for me with every passing day.

Yes composting is very important. Thanks for filling in that detail.

I found the design for a home-made composter that consists of a metal garbage can with holes in the bottom and a little way up the sides (to allow worms and insects access to the stuff you put in), sunk in the ground to above where the holes are and with a cover you can secure to keep out the critters. It’s perfect for the kitchen garbage (minus any animal fat and such).

(((demi))) ohmygosh…

I don’t, though I just added it to my google list. Thanks.

Up here in Upstate NY, I’ve seen it done in greenhouses, but they also have to do lighting in order to get the plants enough ‘lightcandles’ to actually blossom and set fruit. There’s a big hydroponic project right outside of Cornell Univ. in Ithaca(technically, it’s in Dryden, but what the heck) that produces huge amounts of Boston lettuces that are sold by Wegmans. There is also a project out in the Buffalo area which is on a brown field. You really need access to a water and a lot of light.

What are the easiest things to compost? My son made a make shift composter for me and he said fill it with some leaves, than add any leftover veggie stuff but not meats. Any other ideas?

How did you get interested in politics and liberalism? What are you doing to deal with the lean times ahead?

That would be my dad. Nothing if not a union man. A HHH fanatic (in NJ). Cried when Nixon won so I knew this stuff was important. He and my mom just taught me that librul nonsense– care, nobody’s better than another person, government can work for us, etc. what am i doing to deal? don’t know. it’s kinda ad hoc. we deal with stuff as it comes up. cutting back on vacations, clothes. just cutting back.

Mornin’ Ms Christy!

My family was always talking politics. My dad was a highway department employee so wasn’t allowed to be active (at the state level) but there was always political discussion in the house and at Sunday dinners.

And Mom didn’t wash her hands for a week in ‘60 after she shook JFK’s hand.

We were always aware that we had more than others, even if just a little bit, so we had a responsibility to help others.

You are a living witness to Hope Lives On.

Time for a shower and clothes. My state senator is holding a town hall meeting this morning on MN’s $5b shortfall. It will affect everyone, of course, but most of all, the most vulnerable among us. As long as I have breath to speak on their behalf, I reckon I oughta. Toodles.

I wonder how long it will be before I end up traveling the country looking for work ,with all my worldly goods piled into the back of my pick-up.Like something out of Grape Of Wrath

Fastest to compost: leaves, grass clippings, things like that. Slowest are things like wood chips, branches, etc. You can really throw anything green into the pile; we always add a shovel full of dirt every once in a while to innoculate it all with worms, bacteria and so on. That is what breaks things down. The metal can idea is very good – otherwises, birds like crows can get into it. Bones that have no meat on them (we put ours in the oven to get all of that off)are good to put in. But the trick is that during the season when you are piling this stuff up, don’t just leave it, turn it every couple of weeks..speeds up the process. In the winter, it takes a lot longer, though I’ve seen plenty of ‘cooking’ compost piles out there.

Washington State University has an excellent information site called WSU Master Gardener: Stewardship Gardening. It has a whole section on composting with plans, instructions.

Yup, another two-parter. That thing about having breath to speak on their behalf? Be aware that much of what I read and learn here is my primary motivator to keep on keepin’ on with this. Booyah, pups!!! And Christy, a special thanks to you for all you do, but especially this PUAC time. Golden, ma’am!

EW is upstairs with a new post, folks..

I was curious about the home units I see advertised .
They are kind of pricey and I was wondering if they were a feasible alternative to buying produce at the market during the off season

Please let us know what you learn!

Thanks all!

I read that one last night.

Glad you enjoyed it — good luck at your Senator gabfest.

THANK you! I’ve been wondering what to do with my bones…all that calcium and other nutrients!

I’m scared myself. This country has never faced a crisis like this. Imagine if Obama were taking over where Clinton left us. And now Bush is asking for the rest of the money. Trying to rob us of every last nickel before he leaves.
Right now, 2 of my children have jobs that I think are safe. As is mine. My youngest is still in college so he’s still a concern. But the biggest fear is that my husband’s job managing a GM dealership might disappear. He’s already lost about $6000/yr in benefits but he’s still employed. Needless to say, we need his income to survive. We’re amongst the deeply indebted.

I use a plastic can to compost and it works great. I have holes in the bottom for drainage and somehow worms find their way in. I don’t bury it though. I compost all the scrapes, and some of the leaves of the oaks on my property and get this rich compost that sets my garden off from the rest. I don’t have a lawn or else I’d use the clippings also.

It does draw flies though. I get some of those fly traps and hang them on the outside and that takes care of them. Between the compost and the fish fertilizer I don’t worry about the scent of the lure drawing more flies, the compost and fertilizer draw them anyway.

As John F. Kennedy once said in 1960…

“If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” ~ John F. Kennedy, 1960

I’m choosing the burying route because I’m hoping the nutrients leak down into the soil. It needs all the help it can get.

Lindy – if you are going to do that, then I’d recommend ‘trench composting’..dig trenches and then plant your veggies between them. That has worked for us. Sheet composting(just throwing the stuff on top of the garden) works too but attracts critters and birds and is really sort of unattractive.

Thanks for that…at the top, I was wondering how we would describe the definition of Liberal. That’s a great place to start, say, in contrast, to the always perjorative “Bleeding Heart.”

I think that’s a good idea. I never thought about doing that.

I love the graphic that FDL has borrowed to indicate the effects of various economic stimuli. I think we should make it into a t-shirt. I looked briefly on the Moody’s Economy.com website trying to find the original, but gave up. Could someone point me to it?

us too. and my older brothers were in college in the late 60’s so the vietnam war was always being discussed. always. and we had riots, like, a few miles away. i don’t understand how any family could not be political.

Toby, the lot my house stands on is 50′x111′ and doesn’t lend itself to trenches. I’m working on a small section at a time…turning the ground, adding mulch and stuff to improve the ground. I have a number of trees, so no shortage of leaves. Trenches are a great idea, though. I’ll pass the idea along to my son who is still living in Alabama.

Before the flood of 2005, I had all sorts of ornamental plants growing in my yard. The water standing in the yard killed everything except one rose bush. We took that with us to Alabama and it’s thriving there. I’ve started slowly reintroducing things…mostly from cuttings from other people, though I got a hibiscus plant and a lemon tree (Meyer) for Christmas.

Good Morning everyone

Conservatives won’t let us put the stimulus money where it would do the most good, because that would partially alleviate the plight of poor. And we can have that.

Morning, Katy :)

((((katymine)))), how are you keeping?

It would also refute their economic policy stances, which they can’t have happen. Whither Grover Norquist if no one believed his schtick any longer? How would he ever secure his wingnut welfare and pass-through vig payments?

Morning Katy – it’s 12 degrees here – how about you? Staying warm, I hope.

You should ask Jane — it was her post…

Morning, katymine. Hope things are good with you this morning…

I wonder how your parents feel about your epiphany? My dad never talked politics with any of us, and sometimes I think it led to a tacit estrangement.

I am a major composter.

Red worms are awesome for compost. They really help to break down the organic matter. I compost just about anything, not meat or dairy (except eggshells), and no animal poop. Red worms will eat newspaper too.

I never have flies, sometimes I have some other bugs, like roaches and rolypolys. Keep it moist, keep turning the worms to the top as you add to the pile.

Christy…. your post is THE way to explain to people why many of us go over the edge (me) when the republicans call it the “Democrat” Party and leave the “ic” out…… They have been trying to divert that the DEMOCRATIC Party has been standing up for democratic principles for decades and this week was a perfect example with passing fair and equal pay for women.

TobyWollin @115 … Its 45 degrees right now… should get up to mid to high 60’s today But remember it is all relative….. When I am used to 90-110 then 45 is dang cold for me……

I’ll be big time epu’d, but here goes.

Why I started life a Republican: My dad was a fiscal conservative (libertarian, more so) who owned his own businesses in the 70’s and 80’s and railed against the high taxes imposed on him. I have read that the tax burden on small businesses was/is harsh. The myth of the “Welfare Queen” propogated by Reagan did take hold in my Dad’s mind, and he would rant nightly about these lazy people and the government robbing him to pay them. He worked every day of his life until his breakdown. He was also very generous, and gave a lot to charity, and took us kids shopping to buy new toys for poor kids. He wanted to take in foster kids, but my mom only allowed one once. (Because she had 3 at the time, and dad was always at work!) He had a big heart, despite the rants. So I trusted him.

When I was grown, & graduated from college, I became a poorly-paid flight attendant for a regional airline, and worked my butt off. 18 hour days, picked up other people’s trips for the extra money, worked at restaurants on the side, and STILL made horrible annual pay. I helped get a union on the property (teamsters was our first union), and my father who hated unions supported this because, “If I treated my employees like your airline treats you, I’d have to kill myself.” So, I got my first inkling that life REALLY can be unfair. You can be poor and not lazy. Working poor are all around us, and I don’t blame mothers for choosing welfare over a crappy job, so they can be with their kids. Kudos to you who figure that out before or during college. I did not.

I joined the Army National Guard (stayed a flight attendant) because of the love of aviation (became a mechanic), and was surrounded by conservative types. We’d talk about how “we shoulda marched all the way to Baghdad” and that sort of thing. But they were good-hearted guys. This was a weird period of life, knowing that the very rich were getting away with something, but feeling like a conservative person nonetheless.

It took getting older, reading more, and realizing that I was not disrespecting my dad’s essence to believe that conservative did not equal republican, and also… that conservative had lost much of any meaning. What the hell IS a conservative? It’s so decomposed that people call themselves by different flavors of it (social, fiscal…). I have been somebody who did and thought her own thing, but don’t enjoy rejecting the points of view of ones I love. So I stayed in this weird in-between place.

Then George W. Bush happened.

I helped him happen with my stupid vote in 2000. Within a year or so, I watched him attack gay people with that Defense of Marriage idea, and was horrified and started ranting against Bush to my relatives. The ugliness was not just lip service to get votes! Republicans had become official haters. I was done calling myself a republican. Now I was an “independent.” Because I thought I might still be a fiscal conservative…

Then, 9/11 and all of his cockiness. As a former soldier, I saw his cockiness and “smoke ‘em out” stuff as so insufferably stupid. Like he’d watched movies. Then I saw the inevitable “march to Baghdad” and I had a baby in my arms by then, and more wisdom. I remembered the earlier Cheney and first Bush saying that occupation was untenable. And by now, I certainly agreed with that. The first troop count quoted I recall was 100,000+ troops. Enough to fit in Ohio State’s stadium. That’s a dumb figure to take over a country! I knew it. I was ticked off that they ignored the generals who said as much. They were disrespecting their best soldiers. All the stupidity was obvious, painful. I protested here in Columbus OH, on the corner on High and East North Broadway.

At a gathering, my Republican sister and her kids told a funny story about how they shouted “Go War!” at those dumb protesters at High and ENB. Guess they didn’t see me!

Once I was free to not agree with my family, I was free to see what drives me. I noticed my outrage over mothers dying because of poor healthcare, working poor standing in foodlines–all of this far exceeded any joy at the “abundance” of a variety of goods and services available to the lucky ones of us who can afford them because of an energetic marketplace.

So, I realized, “I must be a liberal.”

I think I shook off the FLC flu (feel like crap) that has had Elmore and I to drag around here for a week…. Could not figure it out as I had a day or two where I was brimming with energy and feeling really good and boom back to being a couch potato

Talk about bankrupt ideologues, the current issue of Scientific American has “economic advice” from Jeffery Sachs, quoting his mentor Milton Friedman as authority (See Naomi Klein Shock Doctrine index for references). Such “authority” from such a source should show why the economic prospects are black. Such “expertise” reflects poorly upon academic credentials for all holders. That is the source of “The Chicago School of Economic Phrenology” as reference to that cadre of economic demagogues.

Mornin’, Christy, pups

Late to the party.

How did you get interested in politics and liberalism?

Living in Alexandria, VA, just a mile from the front gate of Mt Vernon, JFK was running for prez. There was an ad for volunteers in DC. I ended up stuffing envelopes and such. I was 16.

In May 1970 I’d been in the Mekong Delta for 3 years. The Stars and Stripes newspaper reported an incident at a college in Ohio named Kent State. It was rough being in the military then. My Lai had occurred 2 years earlier and rumors of Phoenix operations were beginning to leak out. After returning to the world (Dec 70) I took an extension course in Marxism taught by Tom Hayden at UCSD and started hanging out at the Marxist center. My journey on the left had begun. I’ve mellowed over the years, leaving the dogma behind many years ago. Now I’d have to describe myself as a pragmatic left wing anarchist.

I’ve re-posted my comment under her recent suggestion box.

It was the treatment of vietnam vets that gave me a sense, in my household growing up, that liberals were the mean ones. I guess dogmatics are the mean ones, whichever way they lean, yes?

Source is Mark Zandi from Moody’s Economy.com. The info’s in the caption under the graphic.

I’ll go along with that.

And sent an email to the same effect.

Don’t throw away your notes from class, they may contain the key to salvaging the economic wreck the country is in.

PW’s upstairs with more thready goodness..no cookies, though. (sniff)

Welcome aboard. I think many of us question the meaning of “conservatism;” how is it conservative to throw away precious public resources at ventures that are poorly researched, supported only by ideology or riddled with opportunity for abuse?

Locally we are working on revisiting the definition of progressivism. Now that we have a majority, there are too many in certain local offices who suddenly feel a sense of entitlement. This simply doesn’t work for those of us who fought so hard to restore democracy. It’s becoming clearer that this is a life-long struggle, that democracy is a critical component of progressivism and liberalism, that we must be constantly on guard against those who would ignore the will of the people through the tyranny of the majority merely for ideological and partisan reasons.

Welcome to liberalism; don’t let us get too comfortable in it.

I could never understand why anyone took Milton Friedman seriously. Laissez Faire economics had already been tried and failed, as anyone who ever played monopoly knew it would.

I was told at the time of his Nobel prize that the Swedish bankers play a very large role in the selection of the recipient of the Nobel prize in Economics.

Rayne, thank you for even reading that thing. You are very kind.

Yes, I’m worried that human nature will intervene and not allow the best motives of liberalism to take strong root. But staying engaged will be key. And not making excuses for sucky actions by our reps. The downfall of the republicans was hinted at in this little story. My sis was trying to get me to vote for a repub I declared was a sleazeball. “Yes, he is a sleazeball, but he’s OUR sleazeball, Joy!” Well, I refuse to own, keep, or maintain sleazeballs. Repubs collapsed under a pile of these things.

I think reading Capital has given me the best ideas without being dogmatic. If one wants to know how capitalism really works it’s worth the time to read at least Volume 1. There’s an online course entitled Reading Marx’s Capital. It’s 13 2-hour classes filmed at the CUNY graduate center in the fall of 2007. Quite an investment in time but well worth it imo.

Yes, the old “our sleazeball” rationale. This is why the Democratic Party must take every one of their sleazeballs and spank them publicly once they are caught — Blagojevich being one such example. Ditto for any member who feels entitled; there is no entitlement, only an opportunity every damned day to earn the faith and trust of citizens through service.

The only entitlement is to a fine eulogy after a lifetime of hard and honest service.

Not even Adam Smith in his seminal “Wealth of Nations” has support for what the Chicago School of Economic Phrenology has passed off as economic theory. That is Economic Phrenology as a discredited academic discipline. As a tool to politically steal economic resources, it was well constructed and camouflaged under Laissez Faire demagoguery. Karl Marx was the only economic philosopher to critique Adam Smith, and that was from the point of view about what a hash the corporate sycophants and social Darwinians made of Smith’s works.

Doubtlessly numerous Nobel Prizes were bought, many ending up at the Chicago School of Economic Phrenology.

Yes Rayne, wasn’t FDL’s response to the Blago disaster spot on? I am proud of the FDL lead bloggers for not defending him, but for demanding goodness. Great example.

White Rabbit Late today but:

hugs to barbara for her 51.

Thanks to all the composter commenters.

And Katymine@120 “Democratic Party = democratic principles” nails it!

And digby’s got a powerful analysis and cautionary tale up regarding Schiavo. Final straw. Must read.

I found Zandi’s article as a pdf, with the identical info in a less graphic table, organized slightly differently. I guess that’s as close as I’ll get.

I have a standing order for Das Kapital (english translation) from Univ. Oxford press through friends in Ireland. I am currently reading Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations again.

The Zandi article is from January 2008, may not be as relevant today?

Check out David Harvey’s site. You won’t need Capital for the 1st session. They’ve also added an audio discussion on the financial crisis which I haven’t listened to yet. I thoroughly enjoyed re-reading Capital with this course. For folks with dial-up each session has an mp3 version that can be downloaded.

Penquin Classics also has a copy out. You should be able to order it online. About US$18.

Mark Zandi was a chief economist at Moody’s. He has written a book called “Financial Shock” which is supposed to be excellent. A friend is sending me a copy of the book and I’ll let you know.

As a additional note about his book, my friend thinks that Wall Street should be shut down because of all the ponzi schemes that were allowed.

Apparently in Japan a comicbook version of Das Kapital is a very hot item among the kids.

I think Wall St should be regulated to the max. We need to turn the economy back to one based on our industrial base and not our financial services industry. Trading shares doesn’t do anything for the economy 98% of the country lives under.

I saw a couple pages somebody posted a while ago. I also understand that sales of Captial are on the rise.

edit – Capital not Captial

Preview is mah fren

Karl Marx goes manga: http://business.timesonline.co…..175853.ece

We found out about Spitzer by a media that wouldn’t tell us about Cheney’s crimes against humanity. I’m sorry, but Spitzer’s offences were his own his pending charges against Madoff and Wall Street were the nations. We lost because of the media’s purient interests.

Thanks for the links and references. I will be looking into both. Understanding is richer when original sources are used as opposed to relying on someone else’s opinions. A matter of first impression I suppose, I have a tendency to trust mine after all these years.

and our tax system needs to redesigned. At this point a flat tax would be better with a 70,000 deductible with a higher rate on incomes over 500,000. A right wing whacko mentioned that we need to do away with the capital gains tax and I mentioned that I wanted capital gains to tax. We definitely need to regulate greed.

While communism is a dead ideology the old phrase Workers of the world, unite! is reborn. Love it.

I’m a fanatic about original sources. I have a functioning brain and can derive my own impressions from them. Harvey does a great job with the tome.

IIRC Poland and the Baltic countries, it is a huge seller

When serving in the mid to late 60’s, was stationed not far from Trier and the gasthof I attended was on Karl Marx strasse, across from his home.

It’s a tough read. Once one gets through Chap 3 it gets easier. Harvey talks about this. Says most give up while reading Chap 3.

Moving to Daytona Beach, Florida at 11 in 1977 and seeing the lines drawn at where black people were “allowed” to live, to swim, to hang out was a huge experience in my life. To hear the “n” word on a regular basis from cousins, friends, etc. was appalling. Seeing male friends get their “Klan” card at 15. Yuck. Coming of age during Reagan. Hearing my mom’s stories of growing up when abortion was illegal at the same time helping my friends find clinics and the money to stop unwanted pregnancies. Hanging out with punk rockers and those who went on the Peace March. Picking San Francisco out on a map and just “knowing” it was where I was meant to “land.” I don’t understand people who claim to be “former” liberals. It makes no sense. In my book—being a liberal means you have a heart that feels, a brain that thinks and understands, and can see the greater good of community and helping out when you see the need.

That’s partly correct; sex sells, and the corporate media is motivated not to provide information but to make a profit.

But the story about Spitzer wasn’t merely released and beaten to death in the media because of the media’s and the public’s prurient interests.

It was a political assassination cloaked in prurience. We still do not know the full details of how Spitzer’s sex life was released to the press or how it was ever discovered by law enforcement. Somebody/ies did something highly unusual that caused Spitzer to be exposed, and the press failed to do its job as the Fourth Estate, focusing only on the sex (which makes you wonder who the real whores are).

The timing was far too convenient. Four weeks almost to the day after Spitzer publishes an op-ed in WaPo saying that ALL fifty state attorneys general were concerned about fraudulent subprime mortgages and that the White House shut down their efforts to investigate, the story about Spitzer’s use of escort services emerges immaculately.

It’s likely the White House was the real criminal in that story, too.

Adam Smith is not exactly breezy reading either. Currently on hiatus due to major viral situation (fortnight of flu), it is necessary to convert language to a more modern form, which necessitates understanding intent of the writer originally. Fun reading that way. I am told my copy of Marx from Oxford University is being awaited at the bookstore now. Thanks about the difficulty warning, I plan to persevere reading, if nothing else, to counter propaganda and lies.

The timing was far too convenient. Four weeks almost to the day after Spitzer publishes an op-ed in WaPo saying that ALL fifty state attorneys general were concerned about fraudulent subprime mortgages and that the White House shut down their efforts to investigate, the story about Spitzer’s use of escort services emerges immaculately.

It’s likely the White House was the real criminal in that story, too.

IMO, the media could find out who the heavy sellers were during this time. Of course, they didn’t even bother finding out who the heavy sellers were before 9/11. The system is corrupt.

I’m with you. I completely puzzle over that transition, too. I probably need to read a book or two by these guys, just to see how they explain themselves. Maybe the underlying temperament started off “liberal” for different reasons than we ended up liberal.

Long time no see ya Rayne, hope all is well in your world.

Yes, it looked exactly like political assassination, most likely by illegal wiretapping surveillance. Funny how that keeps cropping up.

There’s also Marx for Beginners by Rius.

Fascinating. What bums me out, too, is that my own interest focused immediately on the weirdness of his poor wife accompanying him to his presser. This is where holding my own reps to the fire for being sleazy could hurt us, too. It might be called for to not bury them for their feet of clay if we can keep much more important work going, too.

The market was far too squirrely at that point, I think, for financial fingerprints on transactions to be made out. Remember the op-ed was also published almost one month to the day that Bear Stearns went belly up — and they all of them knew it was imminent.

That Bear Stearns was “permitted” to tank was possible cover for the entire mess. See also Phoenix Woman’s post today about Citigroup agreeing to a new mortgage renegotiation process; they waited this long until the dust settled and the likelihood of discovery during investigations and court cases was greatly lessened. Not that Citigroup alone was suspect, but that the industry as a whole had dirty hands.

This is prolly the best site for original Marxist literature. Also includes some of the more well known anarchist’s writings, e.g., Emma Goldman.

Hey T-Bear — nice to see you, too. Actually I don’t think it was wiretapping that did Spitzer in, but a piece of banking legislation that was originally intended (so certain overloud mouthpieces in the Senate might have said) to stop the movement of illicit monies through internet gambling.

The legislation turned every bank into a branch of law enforcement, allowing them to earmark nearly any transaction as suspect and monitor customers’ financial transactions. Look up UIGEA, embedded in the so-called SAFE Ports Act.

Gotta get up off my ass and get some stuff done.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

More here

http://www.correntewire.com/wa…..ed_was_too