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	<title>Comments on: Exxon Calls for Carbon Tax. Really.</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/</link>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788252</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788252</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The people who control these energy monopolies are the most difficult part because they are criminals.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, although I put Cheney in that category, I must respectfully disagree with the blanket nature of this statement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t think they are all criminals.  Some may be; others are trying to look out for what they perceive as their families, their interests, in a rapidly unraveling geopolitical context.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think some of their best laid plans went belly up.&lt;br /&gt;
I think that Putin probably holds cards the rest of us are not aware of (see: Gazprom, Ukraine).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think there are players like China, India, and others that we don’t give enough credence to as a general topic of discussion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agree that uranium doesn’t make as much sense as searching out other alternatives as rapidly as it’s efficiently possible.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agree that oil companies kind of seem like dinosaurs at this moment.  But I don’t see how calling everyone a criminal is really going to produce the most productive results moving forward.  There is expertise in some of those companies that is not controlled by criminals.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, I would argue that having the US appear to be a national interest that condones and protects torturers (like Cheney, Addington, etc) is not in our long term interests.  Nor does it seem to be in the interests of US-based international corporations.  So why Exxon hired torture-enabler Haynes does on the surface seem to complicate their public image.  But then, I’m not on the Exxon board and in no position to point out how fraudulent and stupid it makes them appear.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;JMHO.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The people who control these energy monopolies are the most difficult part because they are criminals.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, although I put Cheney in that category, I must respectfully disagree with the blanket nature of this statement.</p>
<p>I don’t think they are all criminals.  Some may be; others are trying to look out for what they perceive as their families, their interests, in a rapidly unraveling geopolitical context.</p>
<p>I think some of their best laid plans went belly up.<br />
I think that Putin probably holds cards the rest of us are not aware of (see: Gazprom, Ukraine).</p>
<p>I think there are players like China, India, and others that we don’t give enough credence to as a general topic of discussion.</p>
<p>Agree that uranium doesn’t make as much sense as searching out other alternatives as rapidly as it’s efficiently possible.</p>
<p>Agree that oil companies kind of seem like dinosaurs at this moment.  But I don’t see how calling everyone a criminal is really going to produce the most productive results moving forward.  There is expertise in some of those companies that is not controlled by criminals.</p>
<p>However, I would argue that having the US appear to be a national interest that condones and protects torturers (like Cheney, Addington, etc) is not in our long term interests.  Nor does it seem to be in the interests of US-based international corporations.  So why Exxon hired torture-enabler Haynes does on the surface seem to complicate their public image.  But then, I’m not on the Exxon board and in no position to point out how fraudulent and stupid it makes them appear.</p>
<p>JMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank33</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788097</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788097</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let me explain my opinion simply. The corrupt hydrocarbon system is only part of the problem. The people who control these energy  monopolies are the most difficult part because they are criminals. Any new taxes on these companies is paid by everyone else,and still allows them to pay bribes to elected officials.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whoever controls energy controls everyone else. They will never support renewable energy so the rest of us have to create it on our own. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sunlight can decompose H2O (water) into hydrogen, which is a portable fuel without pollution. Nuclear has failed and is only supported by Alan Greenspan and Andrea Mitchell and the other capitalists who own the uranium. You obviously will not admit that corporations can never own the sunshine.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me explain my opinion simply. The corrupt hydrocarbon system is only part of the problem. The people who control these energy  monopolies are the most difficult part because they are criminals. Any new taxes on these companies is paid by everyone else,and still allows them to pay bribes to elected officials.</p>
<p>Whoever controls energy controls everyone else. They will never support renewable energy so the rest of us have to create it on our own. </p>
<p>Sunlight can decompose H2O (water) into hydrogen, which is a portable fuel without pollution. Nuclear has failed and is only supported by Alan Greenspan and Andrea Mitchell and the other capitalists who own the uranium. You obviously will not admit that corporations can never own the sunshine.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788096</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788096</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;An even better solution is to revise the legal framework that protects the fictitious legal entity called a ‘corporation’, and whose LLC designation absolves it of too much liability.&lt;br /&gt;
Liability should be limited, but &lt;em&gt;to what&lt;/em&gt;?&lt;br /&gt;
That maybe needs to be revised to something larger that the size of a donut hole.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An even better solution is to revise the legal framework that protects the fictitious legal entity called a ‘corporation’, and whose LLC designation absolves it of too much liability.<br />
Liability should be limited, but <em>to what</em>?<br />
That maybe needs to be revised to something larger that the size of a donut hole.</p>
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		<title>By: sad4america</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788094</link>
		<dc:creator>sad4america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788094</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you serious? What about the other half of scientists claiming that this all man-made global warming is a bunch of bull. Last records show Antarctica is growing. The north pole which some extreme global warming theorists hav e said will be a pool by summer is the same size as in 1962 when newsweek came out with a huge article proclaiming that the earth is on the verge of the next ice age. Solar power and wing power are great in certain applications but not on a large scale. The amount of land wind power would need to make power a fraction of a small city is enormous. All the wind turbines combined in the US running at peak efficiency (which isn’t probable, they normally run at about 50% efficiency because of breakdowns among others)would produce as much power as 1.5 average size coal power plants. Government subsidies to make things profitable is only beneficial so long and it doesn’t look like we can get there on a large scale. Look at ethanol, still not great and took up valuable farmland and helped food prices to rise dramatically. Nuclear power is a great answer that doesn’t get enough traction. France has done it for years with great success. The safety concerns are overblown and the general populations knowledge on the subject is close to nil. Storage of waste, safety, price, and technological advances have all opened the door so wide that the American people should be begging to look at this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for Exxon, I am disappointed, not that they are withdrawing lobbyist dollars but that they are giving the impression that they are admitting fault. They are an oil company (definitely not the largest in the world as stated in the article, largest public oil company but all the public oil companies control less than 10% of the world’s oil, I rounded up on the 10% to be very generous. There are 13 countries that have state owned oil companies that individually dwarf Exxon in size and production.) and just as any company they are supposed to strive to be the best in their industry. McDonalds doesn’t say Red Lobster shouldn’t exist or isn’t fighting them, they just focus on what they do best. The oil companies should do the same and as for Exxon and other Public Oil companies they are doing a lot more good than the country owned oil companies because their profits are going to the shareholders and reinvestment, not running a government&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you serious? What about the other half of scientists claiming that this all man-made global warming is a bunch of bull. Last records show Antarctica is growing. The north pole which some extreme global warming theorists hav e said will be a pool by summer is the same size as in 1962 when newsweek came out with a huge article proclaiming that the earth is on the verge of the next ice age. Solar power and wing power are great in certain applications but not on a large scale. The amount of land wind power would need to make power a fraction of a small city is enormous. All the wind turbines combined in the US running at peak efficiency (which isn’t probable, they normally run at about 50% efficiency because of breakdowns among others)would produce as much power as 1.5 average size coal power plants. Government subsidies to make things profitable is only beneficial so long and it doesn’t look like we can get there on a large scale. Look at ethanol, still not great and took up valuable farmland and helped food prices to rise dramatically. Nuclear power is a great answer that doesn’t get enough traction. France has done it for years with great success. The safety concerns are overblown and the general populations knowledge on the subject is close to nil. Storage of waste, safety, price, and technological advances have all opened the door so wide that the American people should be begging to look at this.</p>
<p>As for Exxon, I am disappointed, not that they are withdrawing lobbyist dollars but that they are giving the impression that they are admitting fault. They are an oil company (definitely not the largest in the world as stated in the article, largest public oil company but all the public oil companies control less than 10% of the world’s oil, I rounded up on the 10% to be very generous. There are 13 countries that have state owned oil companies that individually dwarf Exxon in size and production.) and just as any company they are supposed to strive to be the best in their industry. McDonalds doesn’t say Red Lobster shouldn’t exist or isn’t fighting them, they just focus on what they do best. The oil companies should do the same and as for Exxon and other Public Oil companies they are doing a lot more good than the country owned oil companies because their profits are going to the shareholders and reinvestment, not running a government</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788081</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788081</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hugh, thanks for that insight!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh, thanks for that insight!</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788071</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788071</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yet another possiblity — now that calls for asset forfeiture and prosecution for crimes against humanity are no longer confined to EarthFirst! Journal, but now feature in the MSM…quoting NASA’s James Hansen — Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I happen to agree with Hansen that anyone found to have altered or misreported data should face serious penalties and consequences. He’s speaking about the biological damage done, and that’s what too few electeds understand yet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s an example of moral courage, yet I predict within 5 years his views may very likely be mainstream. Particularly given studies that extrapolate that as many as 50% of the twentysomethings may at some point be diagnosed with cancer.  Given stats that grim, even the offspring of oil execs face some wrenching choices ahead.  That tends to focus attention, even for people with law degrees and very big egos.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yet another possiblity — now that calls for asset forfeiture and prosecution for crimes against humanity are no longer confined to EarthFirst! Journal, but now feature in the MSM…quoting NASA’s James Hansen — Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I happen to agree with Hansen that anyone found to have altered or misreported data should face serious penalties and consequences. He’s speaking about the biological damage done, and that’s what too few electeds understand yet.</p>
<p>He’s an example of moral courage, yet I predict within 5 years his views may very likely be mainstream. Particularly given studies that extrapolate that as many as 50% of the twentysomethings may at some point be diagnosed with cancer.  Given stats that grim, even the offspring of oil execs face some wrenching choices ahead.  That tends to focus attention, even for people with law degrees and very big egos.</p>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788069</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788069</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Dr. Kirk!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;good.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dr. Kirk!</p>
<blockquote><p>
Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>good.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788048</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788048</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I share your scepticsm.  One possibity is that Exxon is lying again.  Another possibility is that cited in the piece — Exxom sees the Carbon Tax as a way to hold off cuts in usage they believe a cap and trade system could bring.  Another possibility is the one bartonf set’s forth: with new eco-sherrifs in town, Exxon’s making a virtue of neccessity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yet another possiblity — now that calls for asset forfeiture and prosecution for crimes against humanity are no longer confined to EarthFirst! Journal, but now feature in the MSM…quoting NASA’s James Hansen — Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share your scepticsm.  One possibity is that Exxon is lying again.  Another possibility is that cited in the piece — Exxom sees the Carbon Tax as a way to hold off cuts in usage they believe a cap and trade system could bring.  Another possibility is the one bartonf set’s forth: with new eco-sherrifs in town, Exxon’s making a virtue of neccessity.</p>
<p>Yet another possiblity — now that calls for asset forfeiture and prosecution for crimes against humanity are no longer confined to EarthFirst! Journal, but now feature in the MSM…quoting NASA’s James Hansen — Exxon’s running scared about asset seizure and executives’ personal liability.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788047</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788047</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As I read this it seems to say that Exxon would prefer a carbon tax to a cap and trade system.  A cap even one with trades could limit its output depending on who all gets covered by a cap.  Even so they would plants like refineries that would almost certainly be affected.  But a carbon tax would not limit their output and most of those paying the tax would likely be others downstream from Exxon, not Exxon itself.  So I can see why this would be an acceptable fallback position for it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read this it seems to say that Exxon would prefer a carbon tax to a cap and trade system.  A cap even one with trades could limit its output depending on who all gets covered by a cap.  Even so they would plants like refineries that would almost certainly be affected.  But a carbon tax would not limit their output and most of those paying the tax would likely be others downstream from Exxon, not Exxon itself.  So I can see why this would be an acceptable fallback position for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788045</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/exxon-calls-for-carbon-tax-really/#comment-1788045</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Exxon’s behavior around the Valdez shipwreck and spill is an evil mark even for them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exxon’s behavior around the Valdez shipwreck and spill is an evil mark even for them.</p>
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