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	<title>Comments on: Durbin Folding on Burris? Already?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:19:25 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: exmun</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788524</link>
		<dc:creator>exmun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788524</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here is a quote from the Illinois Supreme Court in Friday’s ruling that appears to clear the way for Burris to be seated legally: “Moreover, no explanation has been given as to how any rule of the Senate, whether it be formal or merely a matter of tradition, could supercede the authority to fill vacancies conferred on the states by the federal constitution.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another quote: “We note, however, that nothing in the published rules of the Senate, including Rule II, appears to require that Senate appointments made by state executives pursuant to the seventeenth amendment must be signed and sealed by the state’s secretary of state.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A lot of talk back and forth about this, but the question that comes to mind is what do the Dems get out of this very public and ugly fight?  Nothing.  It doesn’t accomplish the people’s work any.  It doesn’t advance any agenda.  And now that the Illinois Supreme Court has stated the obvious, there’s no real reason to continue this charade.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What should follow on Monday is a very short and direct statement from Reid, Durbin, and company indicating that they are disappointed with the taint in Burris’ appointment since the Illinois governor was arrested for statements made in the appointing process of this very seat, but that the court has ruled that the appointment is legal and we’ll welcome Mr. Burris into the Democratic Caucus despite our disappointment.  But we know the Dems… they’ll screw even this up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a quote from the Illinois Supreme Court in Friday’s ruling that appears to clear the way for Burris to be seated legally: “Moreover, no explanation has been given as to how any rule of the Senate, whether it be formal or merely a matter of tradition, could supercede the authority to fill vacancies conferred on the states by the federal constitution.”</p>
<p>Another quote: “We note, however, that nothing in the published rules of the Senate, including Rule II, appears to require that Senate appointments made by state executives pursuant to the seventeenth amendment must be signed and sealed by the state’s secretary of state.”</p>
<p>A lot of talk back and forth about this, but the question that comes to mind is what do the Dems get out of this very public and ugly fight?  Nothing.  It doesn’t accomplish the people’s work any.  It doesn’t advance any agenda.  And now that the Illinois Supreme Court has stated the obvious, there’s no real reason to continue this charade.</p>
<p>What should follow on Monday is a very short and direct statement from Reid, Durbin, and company indicating that they are disappointed with the taint in Burris’ appointment since the Illinois governor was arrested for statements made in the appointing process of this very seat, but that the court has ruled that the appointment is legal and we’ll welcome Mr. Burris into the Democratic Caucus despite our disappointment.  But we know the Dems… they’ll screw even this up.</p>
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		<title>By: MrWhy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788405</link>
		<dc:creator>MrWhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 04:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788405</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Although everyone here seems to expect otherwise, it is still possible that impeachment of Blagojevich will fail. Now nobody can fill Obama’s seat until impeachment proceedings reach a conclusion. Any idea how long this will take?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I didn’t notice anyone here saying that seating Burris was an example of America at its most noble or its most inspiring. What I heard was, this is the least bad option, and we’re making things worse by playing Blagojevich’s game for him.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although everyone here seems to expect otherwise, it is still possible that impeachment of Blagojevich will fail. Now nobody can fill Obama’s seat until impeachment proceedings reach a conclusion. Any idea how long this will take?</p>
<p>I didn’t notice anyone here saying that seating Burris was an example of America at its most noble or its most inspiring. What I heard was, this is the least bad option, and we’re making things worse by playing Blagojevich’s game for him.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788251</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788251</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks - that’s why i was so surprised when jane wrote that grounds for impeachment had nothing to do with the senate appointment when it seems to be a big part of it. for me the issue &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/reid-doubles-down-on-burris-but-hes-playing-with-your-money/#comment-1787480&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;has&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/reid-doubles-down-on-burris-but-hes-playing-with-your-money/#comment-1787494&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;been&lt;/a&gt; mainly that the process it self looks crooked - i think this is what you are also saying?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;given that blago is being impeached for abuse of power wrt to the senate appointment, i just don’t get why the right thing to do is to ignore that (at least, that’s what i think the argument is).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks &#8211; that’s why i was so surprised when jane wrote that grounds for impeachment had nothing to do with the senate appointment when it seems to be a big part of it. for me the issue <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/reid-doubles-down-on-burris-but-hes-playing-with-your-money/#comment-1787480" rel="nofollow">has</a> <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/reid-doubles-down-on-burris-but-hes-playing-with-your-money/#comment-1787494" rel="nofollow">been</a> mainly that the process it self looks crooked &#8211; i think this is what you are also saying?</p>
<p>given that blago is being impeached for abuse of power wrt to the senate appointment, i just don’t get why the right thing to do is to ignore that (at least, that’s what i think the argument is).</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788249</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788249</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just for the record, here is the first article of impeachment from selise’s link.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;. . .in his conduct while Governor of the&lt;br /&gt;
17  State of Illinois, Rod R. Blagojevich, has abused the power of&lt;br /&gt;
18  his office in some or all of the following ways:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;19      1) The Governor’s plot to obtain a personal benefit in&lt;br /&gt;
20  exchange for his appointment to fill the vacant seat in the&lt;br /&gt;
21  United States Senate, as more fully detailed in the Final&lt;br /&gt;
22  Report at Section IV-A and in the Committee Record as a whole.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record, here is the first article of impeachment from selise’s link.</p>
<blockquote><p>. . .in his conduct while Governor of the<br />
17  State of Illinois, Rod R. Blagojevich, has abused the power of<br />
18  his office in some or all of the following ways:</p>
<p>19      1) The Governor’s plot to obtain a personal benefit in<br />
20  exchange for his appointment to fill the vacant seat in the<br />
21  United States Senate, as more fully detailed in the Final<br />
22  Report at Section IV-A and in the Committee Record as a whole.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788248</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788248</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Durbin is a good liberal Senator but that doesn’t mean I and others can’t disagree with him or criticize him.  I still remember Durbin courageously describing Gitmo as a gulag and being forced to apologize for that comment.  I wish we had had his back more then.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also disagree with icons like Feingold.  And I was just thinking today about what issues I disagreed with liberal economists like Krugman and Stiglitz on where I think they drank the koolaid but overall I would rather have their voices out than not have them (and both have been doing good work recently).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Durbin is a good liberal Senator but that doesn’t mean I and others can’t disagree with him or criticize him.  I still remember Durbin courageously describing Gitmo as a gulag and being forced to apologize for that comment.  I wish we had had his back more then.  </p>
<p>I also disagree with icons like Feingold.  And I was just thinking today about what issues I disagreed with liberal economists like Krugman and Stiglitz on where I think they drank the koolaid but overall I would rather have their voices out than not have them (and both have been doing good work recently).</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788246</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788246</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for looking that up.  I was working off reports from the impeachment committee.  They had not received the tapes from Fitzgerald so I thought they backpedaled on that charge.  Thanks again for the correction.  It just reinforces the point that the not only the original process was tainted but because of that original taint any subsequent action taken with regard to it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I should add that my understanding of the Powell case is that it turned on the fact that while Powell might be tainted the process by which he was elected was not.  This is the opposite of the present case where it is the process that is in question (although my opinion of Burris is pretty low) and not the individual.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am also surprised that after all the years we have seen parliamentary manuevers used to produce bad results we are now told that these should not be used even if they produce a good and legal result.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for looking that up.  I was working off reports from the impeachment committee.  They had not received the tapes from Fitzgerald so I thought they backpedaled on that charge.  Thanks again for the correction.  It just reinforces the point that the not only the original process was tainted but because of that original taint any subsequent action taken with regard to it.  </p>
<p>I should add that my understanding of the Powell case is that it turned on the fact that while Powell might be tainted the process by which he was elected was not.  This is the opposite of the present case where it is the process that is in question (although my opinion of Burris is pretty low) and not the individual.</p>
<p>I am also surprised that after all the years we have seen parliamentary manuevers used to produce bad results we are now told that these should not be used even if they produce a good and legal result.</p>
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		<title>By: BMcGarth</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788245</link>
		<dc:creator>BMcGarth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788245</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Gee folks remember when Durbin was thought of as a good progressive senator.Now he is seen as just another of the Senate gas bags,I guess that’s what rubbing up to Harry Reid will do for ya!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee folks remember when Durbin was thought of as a good progressive senator.Now he is seen as just another of the Senate gas bags,I guess that’s what rubbing up to Harry Reid will do for ya!</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788240</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788240</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It would perhaps help your case if you presented an argument instead of a rant.  So many bad things done by the Bush Administration were justified under cover of law.  The assertion alone was and has largely proved to be sufficient to ward off any serious legal challenge to them.  The same approach is being applied to the Burris nomination. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Blagojevich is a little like Bernie Madoff.  He has been caught redhanded in illegality.  But pending his trial, I suppose it would be OK for Madoff to open another hedge fund and defend himself by saying that this one really is above board.  And if regulators said no to him, I hope you would defend him just as strongly as you defend Blagojevich and Burris.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would perhaps help your case if you presented an argument instead of a rant.  So many bad things done by the Bush Administration were justified under cover of law.  The assertion alone was and has largely proved to be sufficient to ward off any serious legal challenge to them.  The same approach is being applied to the Burris nomination. </p>
<p>Blagojevich is a little like Bernie Madoff.  He has been caught redhanded in illegality.  But pending his trial, I suppose it would be OK for Madoff to open another hedge fund and defend himself by saying that this one really is above board.  And if regulators said no to him, I hope you would defend him just as strongly as you defend Blagojevich and Burris.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788232</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788232</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Because the legislature deferred to Fitzgerald, this will not be the focus of his trial however. But Blago was so corrupt that they found without difficulty 13 other charges to lay against him.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in hr1671, there are 13 charges, but the very first one is on the senate appointment and in the final committee report (from thursday) there are multiple pages on it. (links @46. i went back and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1671&amp;GAID=9&amp;GA=95&amp;DocTypeID=HR&amp;LegID=40049&amp;SessionID=51&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;checked&lt;/a&gt;, and this sure looks like the resolution that was voted on yesterday.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so i don’t see how the legislature has deferred to fitz - wouldn’t that charge have been removed before voting to send it to the senate?  i haven’t read everything carefully, and i certainly haven’t been following the details, so i expect i just have something wrong - but i can’t seem to figure out what it is.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Because the legislature deferred to Fitzgerald, this will not be the focus of his trial however. But Blago was so corrupt that they found without difficulty 13 other charges to lay against him.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>in hr1671, there are 13 charges, but the very first one is on the senate appointment and in the final committee report (from thursday) there are multiple pages on it. (links @46. i went back and <a href="http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1671&amp;GAID=9&amp;GA=95&amp;DocTypeID=HR&amp;LegID=40049&amp;SessionID=51" rel="nofollow">checked</a>, and this sure looks like the resolution that was voted on yesterday.</p>
<p>so i don’t see how the legislature has deferred to fitz &#8211; wouldn’t that charge have been removed before voting to send it to the senate?  i haven’t read everything carefully, and i certainly haven’t been following the details, so i expect i just have something wrong &#8211; but i can’t seem to figure out what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788218</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/10/durbin-folding-on-burris-already/#comment-1788218</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey blogwhore dude.  You have bad facts and bad law.  Try again later when you are more prepared.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey blogwhore dude.  You have bad facts and bad law.  Try again later when you are more prepared.</p>
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