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	<title>Comments on: Obama Promises Cuts as Employment Staggers Under the Weight of Low Corporate Tax Rates</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/</link>
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		<title>By: Stirling Newberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787256</link>
		<dc:creator>Stirling Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There’s no formal definition for a depression, there is a rule of thumb that has a 10% fall in output, as measured by GDP for example. We’ve not come close to that in the US since the 1930’s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We may or may not see 10% headline unemployment rate, because unemployment as a rate is based on two things: one is how many people are out of work and looking for work, the other is how many people are employed. Unemployment rates can then be lowered by driving people out of the work force, or just not counting them. Reagan’s administration did that, as did Chao earlier on. Keeping a lid on the headline unemployment rate has both a political payoff, in making it possible to argue things are better than they are, and an economic policy one: a lower UI means that it is possible to argue for lower interest rates. Greenspan did that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because of persistent oddities in the Household survey from which the UI rate is derived, many economists started ignoring it. In the early 2000’s I argued that the oddities came because the Household data was counting people doing unpaid work as “employed,” and that people doing non-payroll labor in the farm sector were being miscounted - that is, it measured a different “universe” of people than payroll data, and once one adjusted for the differences, that the household date normalized out. Later Greenspan came out and admitted this. But by that point people had moved to following the “establishment” data, which is where payrolls come from.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To nail the nail in the B/D coffin: if B/D were being fudged intentionally, then it would have added more jobs, not fewer. This is why for years employment numbers were coming in below expectations, and then revised upwards just as consistently. The B/D model was &lt;i&gt;underestimating&lt;/i&gt; job growth, not &lt;i&gt;overestimating it&lt;/i&gt;. The fix for the B/D problem is to realize that the economy we have, is crummier than the economy we ought to have, that as long as the B/D model is underestimating employment, it means we are getting too many McJobs, and not enough jobs with established firms that pay more money and have better wages.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There’s no formal definition for a depression, there is a rule of thumb that has a 10% fall in output, as measured by GDP for example. We’ve not come close to that in the US since the 1930’s.</p>
<p>We may or may not see 10% headline unemployment rate, because unemployment as a rate is based on two things: one is how many people are out of work and looking for work, the other is how many people are employed. Unemployment rates can then be lowered by driving people out of the work force, or just not counting them. Reagan’s administration did that, as did Chao earlier on. Keeping a lid on the headline unemployment rate has both a political payoff, in making it possible to argue things are better than they are, and an economic policy one: a lower UI means that it is possible to argue for lower interest rates. Greenspan did that.</p>
<p>Because of persistent oddities in the Household survey from which the UI rate is derived, many economists started ignoring it. In the early 2000’s I argued that the oddities came because the Household data was counting people doing unpaid work as “employed,” and that people doing non-payroll labor in the farm sector were being miscounted &#8211; that is, it measured a different “universe” of people than payroll data, and once one adjusted for the differences, that the household date normalized out. Later Greenspan came out and admitted this. But by that point people had moved to following the “establishment” data, which is where payrolls come from.</p>
<p>To nail the nail in the B/D coffin: if B/D were being fudged intentionally, then it would have added more jobs, not fewer. This is why for years employment numbers were coming in below expectations, and then revised upwards just as consistently. The B/D model was <i>underestimating</i> job growth, not <i>overestimating it</i>. The fix for the B/D problem is to realize that the economy we have, is crummier than the economy we ought to have, that as long as the B/D model is underestimating employment, it means we are getting too many McJobs, and not enough jobs with established firms that pay more money and have better wages.</p>
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		<title>By: oldoilfieldhand</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787225</link>
		<dc:creator>oldoilfieldhand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787225</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Obama should have the government step up and pay off student debt. A huge amount of the debt carried by young working college graduates was the result of immoral actions by counselors who steered students to expensive loans. Pay off half of the current student loans, these people are working and will spend their monthly payment reduction, thereby stimulating the economy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama should have the government step up and pay off student debt. A huge amount of the debt carried by young working college graduates was the result of immoral actions by counselors who steered students to expensive loans. Pay off half of the current student loans, these people are working and will spend their monthly payment reduction, thereby stimulating the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: UserLoser</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787218</link>
		<dc:creator>UserLoser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787218</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just wait for the January numbers. I don’t know where the brainbuckets draw the line but is over 10% unenjoyment a depression? Do you think they will start thinking about how we are going to gird ourselves for the real world? Do you think we could make some long term investments since the Depression looks like it has no end? How about some Subways and energy conservation solutions not sewers for suburbs we can’t afford? Do you think they might start rethinking what a rational defense model is. Can we afford to be policeman for the world any longer? A job we haven’t exactly been stellar at.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wait for the January numbers. I don’t know where the brainbuckets draw the line but is over 10% unenjoyment a depression? Do you think they will start thinking about how we are going to gird ourselves for the real world? Do you think we could make some long term investments since the Depression looks like it has no end? How about some Subways and energy conservation solutions not sewers for suburbs we can’t afford? Do you think they might start rethinking what a rational defense model is. Can we afford to be policeman for the world any longer? A job we haven’t exactly been stellar at.</p>
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		<title>By: Margot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787211</link>
		<dc:creator>Margot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787211</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;New &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/the-toddler-in-chief/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/the-toddler-in-chief/" rel="nofollow">post</a></p>
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		<title>By: Stirling Newberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787210</link>
		<dc:creator>Stirling Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787210</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When the B/D model came in, to adjust for what used to be called the “bias plug,” I looked at it carefully. The Bias plug would have made even larger errors, if you run the numbers out, but would not have told us anything. The B/D model, by comparing what the economy should have looked like in a healthy recovery, versus what it did look like in the final figures, was really a clue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The model’s failure was telling us something: that the Bush economy was McJobsifying faster than anyone expected. This tremor was data, it helped lead me to looking at the mortgage industry, because many of the McJobs being created were things like Mortgage processors. The B/D model took numbers for a normal economy, and translated that into a jobs number. This was always &lt;i&gt;fewer&lt;/i&gt; jobs than were correct - which was why for a long time jobs figures came in &lt;i&gt;lower&lt;/i&gt; than expected, not higher. The B/D model &lt;i&gt;understated&lt;/i&gt; employment, making it look worse. In all, by almost a million jobs during the early recovery.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, what that should have told more people - as it told me - was that more of the jobs being created were at companies that didn’t actually &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; anything, they were part of a rapidly growing bubble industry that was artificially making the economy look better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The B/D model was off not because the people who made it were making unreasonable assumptions, but because the policies of the administration itself were destroying the economy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the B/D model came in, to adjust for what used to be called the “bias plug,” I looked at it carefully. The Bias plug would have made even larger errors, if you run the numbers out, but would not have told us anything. The B/D model, by comparing what the economy should have looked like in a healthy recovery, versus what it did look like in the final figures, was really a clue.</p>
<p>The model’s failure was telling us something: that the Bush economy was McJobsifying faster than anyone expected. This tremor was data, it helped lead me to looking at the mortgage industry, because many of the McJobs being created were things like Mortgage processors. The B/D model took numbers for a normal economy, and translated that into a jobs number. This was always <i>fewer</i> jobs than were correct &#8211; which was why for a long time jobs figures came in <i>lower</i> than expected, not higher. The B/D model <i>understated</i> employment, making it look worse. In all, by almost a million jobs during the early recovery.</p>
<p>Now, what that should have told more people &#8211; as it told me &#8211; was that more of the jobs being created were at companies that didn’t actually <i>do</i> anything, they were part of a rapidly growing bubble industry that was artificially making the economy look better.</p>
<p>The B/D model was off not because the people who made it were making unreasonable assumptions, but because the policies of the administration itself were destroying the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Margot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787207</link>
		<dc:creator>Margot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787207</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/blagos-dog-and-pony-presser/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new post&lt;/a&gt; up top&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/blagos-dog-and-pony-presser/" rel="nofollow">new post</a> up top</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787205</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787205</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Alan Abelson at Barron’s the WSJ Saturday paper has been complaining about the Birth Death model for 2 years. The WH reads Barron’s its not like they didn’t know and they didn’t know that we knew the numbers were iffy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan Abelson at Barron’s the WSJ Saturday paper has been complaining about the Birth Death model for 2 years. The WH reads Barron’s its not like they didn’t know and they didn’t know that we knew the numbers were iffy.</p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787203</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787203</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This whole exercise is just another extension of the Chicago School of Economic Phrenology at work. Those things that will have a positive effect will be the last things effected. It is not the economic superstructures that drive the economy, although that is where wealth is stored, for the promise of safety and return. All too often, the schemes on offer are not much different than con-artist constructs. Throwing money at such schemes will deplete what little standing credit the money-printers still have, and once that is gone, so is the medium of exchange for all external purposes although there will remain some internal utility. There will remain a sizable but diminishing economy operating on inertia, this will soon pass a point that will not support the loads placed upon it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As long as the means of economic production are held hostage to corporate ownership, there will not be much chance to remedy the failure of corporate capitalism. No economic market may be controlled by monopolistic or oligarchic corporations, no corporation should control more than 5% of their market, tax policies can be applied to these ends. In those markets that monopolistic control is natural, absolute oversight and regulation is required. An attack on wealth will be counterproductive, but de-coupling wealth from economic means of production is imperative.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole exercise is just another extension of the Chicago School of Economic Phrenology at work. Those things that will have a positive effect will be the last things effected. It is not the economic superstructures that drive the economy, although that is where wealth is stored, for the promise of safety and return. All too often, the schemes on offer are not much different than con-artist constructs. Throwing money at such schemes will deplete what little standing credit the money-printers still have, and once that is gone, so is the medium of exchange for all external purposes although there will remain some internal utility. There will remain a sizable but diminishing economy operating on inertia, this will soon pass a point that will not support the loads placed upon it. </p>
<p>As long as the means of economic production are held hostage to corporate ownership, there will not be much chance to remedy the failure of corporate capitalism. No economic market may be controlled by monopolistic or oligarchic corporations, no corporation should control more than 5% of their market, tax policies can be applied to these ends. In those markets that monopolistic control is natural, absolute oversight and regulation is required. An attack on wealth will be counterproductive, but de-coupling wealth from economic means of production is imperative.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787202</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787202</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;By not making adjustments in a model that you know is flawed well that is just manipulating the statistics by inaction.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By not making adjustments in a model that you know is flawed well that is just manipulating the statistics by inaction.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787201</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/09/obama-promsises-cuts-as-employment-staggers-under-the-weight-of-low-corporate-tax-rates/#comment-1787201</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Carter had a high of 7.8 I wonder if Bush will tie Jimmy?&lt;br /&gt;
Carter’s failure’s paved the way for Reagen will Bush’s pave the way for Obama?&lt;br /&gt;
The GOP talking heads are going to cry if we start equating Bush with Jimmy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carter had a high of 7.8 I wonder if Bush will tie Jimmy?<br />
Carter’s failure’s paved the way for Reagen will Bush’s pave the way for Obama?<br />
The GOP talking heads are going to cry if we start equating Bush with Jimmy.</p>
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