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	<title>Comments on: Pay Equity: Raise Your Voice for Lilly Ledbetter and Equal Pay for Equal Work</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/</link>
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		<title>By: sad4america</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786401</link>
		<dc:creator>sad4america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Also by logic previously stated. I would have to say that all women deserve a tax refund because they have a menstrual cycle which requires products that cost money that men don’t have to buy. They also have to wear an extra undergarment(bra) not required by most men. Also the government lets the fashion world run amok forcing women to spend money on make-up and many times more then average cost for haircuts than men, not to mention manicures and pedicures. Of course this is ridiculous. The governments job should be to allow everyone the same opportunities and chances to succeed. Yes it might be easier for some people to get their but then again life is not fair and the government doesn’t need to make it that way!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also by logic previously stated. I would have to say that all women deserve a tax refund because they have a menstrual cycle which requires products that cost money that men don’t have to buy. They also have to wear an extra undergarment(bra) not required by most men. Also the government lets the fashion world run amok forcing women to spend money on make-up and many times more then average cost for haircuts than men, not to mention manicures and pedicures. Of course this is ridiculous. The governments job should be to allow everyone the same opportunities and chances to succeed. Yes it might be easier for some people to get their but then again life is not fair and the government doesn’t need to make it that way!!!</p>
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		<title>By: sad4america</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786382</link>
		<dc:creator>sad4america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786382</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I could not have said it better myself. Fairness is has nothing to do with how another person is compensated. Maybe the issue is that men by nature are more competitive and fight for raises and women tend to be more timid. That statement is just as true and ridiculous of a generalization as this Fairness act. If people of all races and sexes did more to educate themselves on how to handle money then most of the United State’s, well the world’s economic crisis’ would not be so dramatic and most likely we would not be here at all. Any person living within their means and investing wisely can do great things and enjoy life but it takes understanding, hard work, and discipline. This is why their are many people, couples making less than $50,000 a year with children living way better than people making many times more than them and they have minimal debt.  Americans are overly spoiled, hard work is what this country needs to regain its standing, not complaining about what is and isn’t fair.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could not have said it better myself. Fairness is has nothing to do with how another person is compensated. Maybe the issue is that men by nature are more competitive and fight for raises and women tend to be more timid. That statement is just as true and ridiculous of a generalization as this Fairness act. If people of all races and sexes did more to educate themselves on how to handle money then most of the United State’s, well the world’s economic crisis’ would not be so dramatic and most likely we would not be here at all. Any person living within their means and investing wisely can do great things and enjoy life but it takes understanding, hard work, and discipline. This is why their are many people, couples making less than $50,000 a year with children living way better than people making many times more than them and they have minimal debt.  Americans are overly spoiled, hard work is what this country needs to regain its standing, not complaining about what is and isn’t fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Safron</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786328</link>
		<dc:creator>Safron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786328</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Why? Are the economic forces that relate to consumer goods and services subject to different rules of elasticity than the market for labor?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are you serious? I’m amused that you seem to think they are subject to the same rules. I will switch peanut butter brands if there is a few cents difference in the price. But there is a lot of friction with the job market. You may not be able to easily switch jobs, even if you know you are being underpaid. You may not know you are being underpaid because of your employer’s “privacy” policies. You might know, but still want to stay with the employer because you are used to the work, or you like your co-workers, etc. A lot more goes into the average job-switch calculation than goes into the average peanut butter-switch calculation. So yes, there are different rules of elasticity. Labor doesn’t work with the Econ 101 supply and demand model.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More importantly, it is wrong to discriminate on the basis of gender. Just because someone may have some small degree of choice in accepting a salary does not make it right for a business to make their salary decisions based on gender. The law agrees that this is wrong! Right now, it offers redress if you find out within a few months of the start of the discrimination. But discrimination is discrimination even if you find out much later, and that is why Congress needs to extend the time period.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why? Are the economic forces that relate to consumer goods and services subject to different rules of elasticity than the market for labor?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Are you serious? I’m amused that you seem to think they are subject to the same rules. I will switch peanut butter brands if there is a few cents difference in the price. But there is a lot of friction with the job market. You may not be able to easily switch jobs, even if you know you are being underpaid. You may not know you are being underpaid because of your employer’s “privacy” policies. You might know, but still want to stay with the employer because you are used to the work, or you like your co-workers, etc. A lot more goes into the average job-switch calculation than goes into the average peanut butter-switch calculation. So yes, there are different rules of elasticity. Labor doesn’t work with the Econ 101 supply and demand model.</p>
<p>More importantly, it is wrong to discriminate on the basis of gender. Just because someone may have some small degree of choice in accepting a salary does not make it right for a business to make their salary decisions based on gender. The law agrees that this is wrong! Right now, it offers redress if you find out within a few months of the start of the discrimination. But discrimination is discrimination even if you find out much later, and that is why Congress needs to extend the time period.</p>
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		<title>By: Hythloday</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786148</link>
		<dc:creator>Hythloday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786148</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Please don’t resort to calling Selkirk or me nasty names simply because we disagree.  It hurts our feelings to be called trolls.  In any event, I did not make the statement, thus the burden to prove the statement was not on me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please provide evidence for this statement:  “Never mind that her company (as most companies do) in some  companies it is a firing offense to discuss your pay with another employee?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your state “you assume that Ledbetter (or other employees) are ‘happy with their compensation.’ You have no basis for that assumption of fact at all.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Actually, by accepting the job, there is an implicit assumption of satisfaction, or else they would not have taken the job or would have left.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Finally, you state that we have discovered “that pure ‘capitalism’ doesn’t work so well in the real world, for real people.” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would respectfully disagree.  We are discovering that being the least socialist economic system in the world detrimentally effects the country.  We have never had anything close to a pure capitalist system in this country.  You should not use a defined macroeconomic term such as “pure capitalism” without knowing what it means.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don’t resort to calling Selkirk or me nasty names simply because we disagree.  It hurts our feelings to be called trolls.  In any event, I did not make the statement, thus the burden to prove the statement was not on me.</p>
<p>Please provide evidence for this statement:  “Never mind that her company (as most companies do) in some  companies it is a firing offense to discuss your pay with another employee?”</p>
<p>Your state “you assume that Ledbetter (or other employees) are ‘happy with their compensation.’ You have no basis for that assumption of fact at all.”</p>
<p>Actually, by accepting the job, there is an implicit assumption of satisfaction, or else they would not have taken the job or would have left.  </p>
<p>Finally, you state that we have discovered “that pure ‘capitalism’ doesn’t work so well in the real world, for real people.” </p>
<p>I would respectfully disagree.  We are discovering that being the least socialist economic system in the world detrimentally effects the country.  We have never had anything close to a pure capitalist system in this country.  You should not use a defined macroeconomic term such as “pure capitalism” without knowing what it means.</p>
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		<title>By: joelmael</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786143</link>
		<dc:creator>joelmael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786143</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ah yes efficiency. Efficiency for whom? the serf system was pretty efficient in the view of the lords and ladies of the manor. Way more efficient than sharing the land. Except that is when the serfs became uppity and annoying.  They needed to be fed yet kept hungry enough to keep quiet.   Very important to keep them from organizing to demand a fair share of their labor.  “Off with their heads, I say, before they get a chance to off ours.  Heh.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Efficiency is fine as long as you are not among the “efficientated”.  Ah my own skin is so sensitive, it just wouldn’t bear the lash.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes efficiency. Efficiency for whom? the serf system was pretty efficient in the view of the lords and ladies of the manor. Way more efficient than sharing the land. Except that is when the serfs became uppity and annoying.  They needed to be fed yet kept hungry enough to keep quiet.   Very important to keep them from organizing to demand a fair share of their labor.  “Off with their heads, I say, before they get a chance to off ours.  Heh.</p>
<p>Efficiency is fine as long as you are not among the “efficientated”.  Ah my own skin is so sensitive, it just wouldn’t bear the lash.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786131</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786131</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If wages are kept down for labor, who is around to purchase the goods and services as a consumer?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When wages are kept down, the wage is spent on the basics of food, shelter, healthcare.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only way there is a consumer market for goods is when wages are high enough to allow for the excess to be spent for consumer products.  Depress wages, depress consumer purchases&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If wages are kept down for labor, who is around to purchase the goods and services as a consumer?</p>
<p>When wages are kept down, the wage is spent on the basics of food, shelter, healthcare.</p>
<p>The only way there is a consumer market for goods is when wages are high enough to allow for the excess to be spent for consumer products.  Depress wages, depress consumer purchases</p>
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		<title>By: tejanarusa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786130</link>
		<dc:creator>tejanarusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ayyiyi- more trollishness?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, hythloday, check the opinion.  It does indeed say that she had to file within 6mos of the beginning of the discrimination.  Never mind that her company (as most companiesdo) went to some lengths to keep her from finding out that she was being paid less.  Do you know that in some companies it is a firing offense to discuss your pay with another employee?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You also make a helluvan assumption - well, more than one.&lt;br /&gt;
One, that company and employee have equal bargaining power.  This assumption is almost always false.  The employee never has all the information necessary to make a rational decision,therefore the power in the bargaining for pay is inherently unequal.&lt;br /&gt;
Two - you assume that Ledbetter (or other employees) are “happy with their compensation.”  You have no basis for that assumption of fact at all.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Last comment- we are all discovering, are we not, that pure “capitalism” doesn’t work so well in the real world, for real people.  Have you not been paying attention?&lt;br /&gt;
Inequality of bargaining power between empoyer and employee is a big reason for the failure of so-called capitalism.  Just because we can now see the problems of that ‘ism doesn’t mean we’ve become socialists.  But fairness and the market don’t have to be incompatible - it just requires some regulation and enforcement.  Enforcement includes the ability of individuals and groups to bring suit against employers for unfair, illegal practices. Laws are only as good as the enforcement of them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There - dakine01 -  I see what you mean - now I’m doin’ it too!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ayyiyi- more trollishness?</p>
<p>Yes, hythloday, check the opinion.  It does indeed say that she had to file within 6mos of the beginning of the discrimination.  Never mind that her company (as most companiesdo) went to some lengths to keep her from finding out that she was being paid less.  Do you know that in some companies it is a firing offense to discuss your pay with another employee?</p>
<p>You also make a helluvan assumption &#8211; well, more than one.<br />
One, that company and employee have equal bargaining power.  This assumption is almost always false.  The employee never has all the information necessary to make a rational decision,therefore the power in the bargaining for pay is inherently unequal.<br />
Two &#8211; you assume that Ledbetter (or other employees) are “happy with their compensation.”  You have no basis for that assumption of fact at all.</p>
<p>Last comment- we are all discovering, are we not, that pure “capitalism” doesn’t work so well in the real world, for real people.  Have you not been paying attention?<br />
Inequality of bargaining power between empoyer and employee is a big reason for the failure of so-called capitalism.  Just because we can now see the problems of that ‘ism doesn’t mean we’ve become socialists.  But fairness and the market don’t have to be incompatible &#8211; it just requires some regulation and enforcement.  Enforcement includes the ability of individuals and groups to bring suit against employers for unfair, illegal practices. Laws are only as good as the enforcement of them.</p>
<p>There &#8211; dakine01 &#8211;  I see what you mean &#8211; now I’m doin’ it too!</p>
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		<title>By: Selkirk</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786126</link>
		<dc:creator>Selkirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786126</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why?  Are the economic forces that relate to consumer goods and services subject to different rules of elasticity than the market for labor?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why?  Are the economic forces that relate to consumer goods and services subject to different rules of elasticity than the market for labor?</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786123</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I assume you are talking about economic efficiency in a “perfect” economic model.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which of course, does not and cannot exist in an imperfect world due to all the variables that affect economics.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Like the individual humans and the need for SOME folks to be capable of purchasing the product.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If all wages are kept down, who is around to be the consumer?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume you are talking about economic efficiency in a “perfect” economic model.</p>
<p>Which of course, does not and cannot exist in an imperfect world due to all the variables that affect economics.</p>
<p>Like the individual humans and the need for SOME folks to be capable of purchasing the product.  </p>
<p>If all wages are kept down, who is around to be the consumer?</p>
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		<title>By: Hythloday</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786122</link>
		<dc:creator>Hythloday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/08/pay-equity-raise-your-voice-for-lily-ledbetter-and-equal-pay-for-equal-work/#comment-1786122</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s not but it should to achieve the most economic efficiency in the market.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s not but it should to achieve the most economic efficiency in the market.</p>
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