It certainly confirms, in my mind, that Panetta is the right person.

It’s just such a ham-handed warn off attempt. Honestly, you read through the anonymous source quotes, and it reads like a bad B-movie script.

And, while I’m thinking about it, Frank Church’s work made for amazing reforms. The WSJ tries to use him as a slur when that’s actually a compliment in my book.

Ewwwwww Christy – grossed me out while having coffee & power bar.

Instructions from the source(s) of WSJ – lift rug, start sweeping.

Hey, I guess we have a map of what to do irt Panetta during his confirmation hearings. We need to back him with calls, faxes and emails…

Torture, in “good faith”? Interesting argument, which should appeal to most sociopaths.

Sorry — couldn’t help myself. I spotted that picture and had to use it. It was too perfect for this whole intertwined mess of a can of worms.

Dennis Blair will soon have to decide if they want to join the left-wing crusade to purge their agencies of anyone who had anything to do with “torture.”

EXCUSE ME?

this is a “left wing” crusade?

so now it’s “left wing” to enforce our constitution, the treaties we are signatories, it’s left wing to punish criminals

this is “left wing”?

is the wall street journal REALLY trying to say it’s “left wing” enforcing our law and punsihing criminals?

someone needs to post that question to these water carrying fools

By all means, we’ve gotta keep up the morale of our spooks.

So, the question is: intel professionals? If so, this is awfully ham-handed and obvious. Higher ups at DOD and CIA? Or Dick Cheney’s media planting CYA squad?

They all pushed the story expect more like it. Truth commissions which serious Democrat has been talking about that besides us? I think the Bush legacy project is sweating that one.
I smell fear.

I thought exactly the same thing when I was reading the editorial – “Gee, didn’t a lot of good come from the Church Commission?”

Let some fresh air get through the Green Door. Or maybe cleaning the Augean Stables is a better analogy.

In the Rachel clip with morning swim Baer mentioned contractors at CIA. I imagine a lot of the money folks are afraid Panetta might rid the agency of these leeches. When something comes out on WSJ’s editorial pages the bottom line is money. Who stands to benefit and in this case who will lose.

Christy -

You may have it in one of your linkys but, if not, there was something similar in the wapoo this morning…….strong on the unnamed sources and a very similar vein.

Nice lookin’ can of night crawlers. Let’s go fishin’ and catch some miscreants.

“torture” vendetta against intelligence officials who were acting in good faith and with the full knowledge of key Members of Congress.

we do not give a flying turd they had “full knowledge” of other criminals, there is NO “good faith” break our law which then brings harm to our country, NO “good faith” when you break our law which then creates new more dangerous enemies, NO “good faith” when you break our law and LOOSE information that would have saved lives, NO “good faith” when you break our law and that makes our fight almost impossible to win

what a frigging maggot to write something like this

We need to photoshop some faces on those worms.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

Ooooh — missed that one — do you have a link?

I love it. I’ll take that. Hey, THAT will play great in the next election. I wouldn’t post the question…Just let THAT concept play out…Left wing is pro constitution and pro law enforcement.

I love the branding!

Unfortunately, it’s a GOP spin for, “Terror, terror, fear, fear…the left is weak on terror,” spew. Whoever it is, is “more of the same” Bushie type.

Like outing Valerie Palme didn’t destroy the trust every undercover CIA agent had in their government backing them for doing their job even if what they had to report was true but not what the boss wanted to hear?
A truth commission clears you of any charge you confess to it does smear the reputation of the White House though.

Dawn Johnson, who has been nominated to head up OLC at DOJ, has certainly talked about having the air fully cleared on these issues at one point or another. (I’m really thrilled with her nomination, btw. Just FYI.)

Exactly. Church is a hero to me as well.

The ongoing war between Cheney (and his minions at DoD) and the CIA has been fought via selective leaks throughout the full 8 years of the Bush Administration. Valerie Plame is the most visible victim, but these battles are very hard-fought and are for keeps. I think Cheney forced CIA into being the agents of torture so that he could bring them down later if there was blowback against torture. This WSJ piece probably comes from his side, with the “bonus” that bringing down CIA now brings down the Democratic leadership with intelligence oversight. Cheney thinks he has built the perfect protection by having Feinstein and Rockefeller at risk.

I’m guessing he had to change his Depends when Panetta was leaked without Feinstein and Rocky being informed. Obama showed him that he’s onto the game and fired a very effective shot for a rookie.

A LOT of this was contracted out, from what I’ve been hearing — and I’m certain that money pipeline is something that is a highly motivating factor for a lot of the pushback.

we’re gettin a good sense of who’s ox will be gored now. i want a adult civilian at cia who is not used to lookin the other way. could be leon.

Normally its the GOP saying that ignorance of the law is no excuse? But it is hard to be a spook and be ignorant of the laws against torture and war crimes.
Plus spooks above all others should know that torture produces unreliable information.
Its like a mechanic not knowing 2 stroke engines need oil mixed in the gas.

Christy -

Here ya go….sorry so slow – dial-up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

I think folks are realizing that you can’t keep your secrets all locked up in your man-sized safe forever once someone else gets their hands on all the lock combinations.

Cool whats the OLC

Spooks morale might improve if they were cleared in the whole “CIA got it wrong” thingy.

CNN is falling all over itself pushing their pal gupta. :-(

I hope Panetta cleans house and in the process takes down the sleazy, decrepit, enabling Reid and Pelosi in the process. Shining a bright light on our recent history here would be a great service to the country.

Great choice, as indicated by the sources and strength of the whining!

Bravo Mr. President (elect)!

The infamous Office of Legal Counsel. John Yoo’s former employer if I’m not mistaken.

yes, but torture is fun and it was all in good faith fer a good cause and only happened a few (thousand) times. what’s the problem?

Office of Legal Counsel — it’s the brief-writing (read: almost a mini-Supreme Court) for the federal government. It’s where Yoo worked at DOJ while doing all of his various memos at Cheney and Addington’s behest, for example.

Enormously powerful office, and Dawn Johnson has several years of experience there, having worked under Walter Dellinger for about five years during the Clinton era. Feingold had her in to testify regarding secret government law back in April (I liveblogged the hearing) and she was fantastic.

Having just finished reading James Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, Panetta would be a fool not to take these veiled threats seriously. Douglas builds a compelling case that the CIA, abetted by elements in other agencies such as the Defense Department, the FBI and even the President’s purported protectors in the Secret Service, drove an elaborate conspiracy to kill President Kennedy, set up Oswald as the scapegoat, and cover its tracks in doing so. A trail of bodies has been laid down over the decades since of the bodies of those who got too close to the truth, and despite the changes made in the wake of the Church hearings it’s a leap to assume that these tendencies have been expunged from these organizations’ cultures. I’m not saying that Panetta, Obama and Co. shouldn’t look under these rocks, but rather that if they choose to do this work that is so necessary for the healthy future of our nation that they should be cognizant of the risks of doing so.

A good, and extensive, review and synopsis of the book can be found here.

From the WSJ piece:

Beginning in 2002, Nancy Pelosi and other key Democrats (as well as Republicans) on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were thoroughly, and repeatedly, briefed on the CIA’s covert antiterror interrogation programs.

After reading Bart Gelman’s book Angler, as well as James Bamford’s The Shadow Factory, I don’t think that “thoroughly” is the word that the authors of this piece were looking for. Maybe “incompletely” or “selectively” or “perfunctorily,” but not “thoroughly.”

This is pure pushback and preemptive CYA. The line in the quote used in the post above about members of congress on the witness list sound mighty like a lawyer in the Executive branch. “Nice place you’ve got here up on the Hill. It’d be a pity if anything happened to it. . . ” He’s mighty worried about his own skin and threatening to take down others if they come after him

Can you say David Addington?

Great angle did Bush and Darth pressure CIA agents to torture? Was their a threat to end or freeze the careers of any spook who would not torture?
I think we need Public Congressional hearings on that one.

You know, I was thinking the same thing — and then I thought that Scooter has some free time on his hands these days, too. As does Mary Matalin.

The possbilities are endless, aren’t they?

Darth probably watched the tapes in a dark room in the White House and left a mess?

Acckk!

The paragraph above (and below) comes from the WSJ.

Beginning in 2002, Nancy Pelosi and other key Democrats (as well as Republicans) on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were thoroughly, and repeatedly, briefed on the CIA’s covert antiterror interrogation programs.

The rest of the above is me.

Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend. Preview . . .

Sounds like the best hire Obama has made yet.

After all why else torture?

And now, we come to the curious case of the new china service, to the tune of nearly $500,000, Laura Bush has ordered two weeks away from the Bushies leaving…..just heard it on GMA ( yes, sometimes I forget to change the channel in the morning) I can’t find it yet in the news, so don’t ask me for a link

It is, as they say, “a cast of thousands.”

I don’t think “good faith” went very far at Nuremburg, but the circumstances were very different. The most that’s likely to happen here will be right out of Hogan’s Heroes…”I know nothing, nothing.”

we need ta find the tapes.

The Alberto Gonzales School Of Amnesia? I’ll take a crash course in testimony preparation please. Stat.

Is she going to keep it or is it for the White House? If she is going to keep it well maybe it never gets delivered but the cash ends up in her or the GOP’s pocket?
Is this money laundering, theft, a bribe?

If Darth is a freak he will keep a personal copy.

i believe they call it compartmentalization. ta limit the risk, ya know.

That WSJ plant is heavy-handed enough to be Cheney himself. Or Joe Lie.

Frank Church was a hero. Panetta can only aspire to be like Frank Church. And my guess is that the “career intelligence professionals” will be glad to see the torture regime overthrown. How many anonymous comments have we seen from inside, reiterating that torture is counter-productive?

there is no ignorance of this law, being in the cia would preclude ignorance

Church is/was a hero of mine as well; however, after reading Digby’s post,

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com…..ddays.html

it occurs to me that I also “misremembered” how much it really accomplished.

The targets of the investigation had the last laugh on the investigators. “When all is said and done, what did it achieve?” asked Richard Helms, the former director of the CIA who was at the heart of many of the scandals unearthed by Congress and the media. “Where is the legislation, the great piece of legislation, that was going to come out of the Church committee hearings ? I haven’t seen it.” Hersh, the reporter who prompted the inquiries, was also unimpressed by the investigators’ accomplishments. “They generated a lot of new information, but ultimately they didn’t come up with much,” he said.

That these fascists will *always* push back can never be forgotten.

That WSJ editorial has Cheney’s hoof print all over it.

BTW, *loved* seeing Ray McGovern on the NewsHour last night!

My understanding is that the long-term professionals at CIA, DIA, and the State intel wing all want reforms. And that none are very happy with all the outside contractors because they are accountable to no one. This is clearly a mess in desperate need of unravelling…with a whole host of folks who don’t want anyone ever peering into it.

Making it all the more tempting to do so, don’t you think?

The Dems in the House and Senate need it more I have seen a few hearings they ask lame and off topic questions didn’t Biden go way off topic in one of these hearings?
Funny that the Serious people are so ill prepared If they were commentors at the Lake discussing the topic they would be ignored, yelled at for being off topic, or we would think that they were trolls.

1,880 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Thanx for the post, I think that the issue of control of the security state apparatus and the secret police structure is the battle that will tell us where the bodies are buried and whether or not there is enough anti-fascist muscle left in the non-elected government to save some semblance of democracy in this country. Let’s not forget that one sitting president was murdered by the corporate security state and the relationship of the intelligence services to the arms industry has defined American political life since at least 1956. I find it interesting that the “public spooks” like Richard Clark or the Wilsons are not rushing to support a “good old boy” intelligence “lifer” and are not undermining a civilian professional like Panetta either.

Chaney won the initial battle for control of critical intelligence and the subsequent fight for control of the intelligence apparatus and it seems to me that who wins this last fight for control will determine the success or failure of the Obama administration and, by extension, the success or failure of the anti-fascist political forces struggling to establish a government.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE ARE SEEING THE ENEMY AND THEY ARE NOT US!!!

I was going for Snark:)

I keep suggesting a crash course in hearing etiquette and cross-examination. Unfortunately, they have to want to learn to be more effective instead of grandstanding and, alas, it can be a bit like herding cats.

you’ve been gone. people been lookin for ya.

Sounds like a post.

If folks could give this a digg, I’d really appreciate it, btw…

instead of grandstanding

being an Ass

Fixed it for you:)

What about our Blue America people will they listen to you?

*DOH* I see you already linked to Digby in your post. *DOH*

A coordinated attack can work better than everyone trying to be a star.

oops, sometimes I miss the good ones and that was good snark

Leon (Lion) Panetta will be a significant force for the law abiding left wing of the Democratic Party. The Dems have always been on the side of law and order, it’s the GOP that wants to circumvent law. Is it because they truly believe in their ideology and any means used to achieve it are therefore justified, legal or not? Your call… (see Richard Nixon-George H W Bush-George W Bush-Richard Cheney-David Addington-John Yoo-Alberto Gonzales-Karl Rove-Donald Rumsfeld-Stephen Hadley-Condi Rice-Tom Delay-Newt Gingrich, etc.)

must earn, see all later

I always thought that WSJ was Cheney’s tool for ventriloquism, his own Charlie McCarthy.

It certainly has seemed that way the last few years, hasn’t it?

Citizen californiarealitycheck:

Spent 9 days in Jamaica with Mrs. Norske and our two daughters (can’t call ‘em “girls” anymore) and had a medical “warning shot” while snorkling so I been dealin with that since we got back…I been lurkin and sendin an occasional shot into the crowd the last few days but I’m pretty much a “late nighter” now since I work nights and can’t burn it at both ends anymore. Thanks for the interest.

The International War Crimes Tribunal would be the place to deal with this. However, apparently Congress has pre-authorized a military invasion if any citizen were ever held for trial.

I love the thought of Laura’s ordering new china — as if Dubya’s been the proverbial bull in the (White House) china shop.

Ms. Laura jes’ loved being on that recent PBS “The White House” special. She realized when viewing the show that subsequent First Ladies would have to say the words “Bush China” (a la the Reagan set) if she bought some.

Just her little contribution to the Legacy Tour.

Oh really, accountability around “torture” issues is a “left wing” cause. Does that mean “pro-business” is “pro-torture”? One might venture to say that the political culture of brutality is a far cry from a “thousand points of light” and a “city a hill.” Why is the WSJ buying into this Oedipal naivete? If Bush & Co. thought what they were doing was legal they would not have built retroactive immunity for war crimes into legislation the Republican Congress passed in 2006 in its last gasp. Maybe rather than a “left-wing crusade” we are looking at a main stream disgust at depraved methods.

Do you have a source for that, because that’s not something I’ve seen come through in any legislation.

Frances Fragos Townsend, a CNN contributor on national security issues, formerly served as President George W. Bush’s chief anti-terrorism and homeland security adviser.

says leon is inexperienced. hmm.

You know what’s really sad? I find that a wholly believable scenario. Ugh.

Might Laura be trying to rake in the Dough by creating a signature line of Bush China for the war criminal looking to pass Bush money? i wonder what the markup would be?

Yes, coming from Fran Townsend, I’m sure that’s a real stinger for Panetta. *insert laugh track here*

Honestly, the man was the WH chief of staff. Given the breadth of the job and the various portfolios that have to be managed from that desk in any WH, including national security, tha’s a specious argument at best. (the Bushies being the exception on that, I’d suspect, given Cheney’s hand on the Nationa; security mechanisms)

Funny Bush was all about having experienced people in the top jobs and look how that turned out.

OT – just starting, senate energy and natural resources committee to be briefed today on the economy and green technology by idiot Very Serious Person thomas “suck on this” friedman. details at oxdown

I’d suggest the entire Obama family break it piece by piece against the hardest surface every time their fustration level reaches a certain point.

One never know with this bunch, does one? I fully expect there will be multidudinous items missing from the American past by the time this president leaves…….or, it could be more dire than that and they plan to stay on, especially if Panetta is gonna be there……….

I wonder if anyone would raise a holler if the Lincoln portrait disappeared? or would it simply be be more “post partisanship”?
I’m beginning to see the logic in all this pandering to the right as there were so many enablers among the Dems.

Maybe so…or trying to help keep at least someone’s business simply alive. For example, Waterford/Wedgewood went into receivership on Friday. Tough times for manufacturers of anything we don’t really have to have.

I’m actually surprised the figure for the china is not more than $500,000. Would love to know who will be manufacturing it. During the salad days of the economy *g*, some investment banks, hedge funds had ownership positions in companies that made case goods.

Also, Bar probably encouraged her to do this. I doubt there was a 41 china after the hue and cry over Nancy’s purchase.

Hey, I didn’t come here to work.
It’s the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002, which was nicknamed the Hague Invasion Act. I will have to do some more googling.

I knew there was a word for it, in historical terms: Vichy

Citizen Kassandra:

Another term would be “Quissling”.

I, also, am convince that Panetta is the right guy for this job. I am also convinced that a ‘truth commission’ will be the only way we ever get to the bottom of this mess. I don’t for a second believe that Cheney and Bush will be investigated for war crimes; it would set a bad precedent for future ‘investigations’ by administrations, but I do feel that if we give immunity to those individuals who testify truthfully about the crimes they committed, that we can prevent this kind of crap from happening in the future.

Hague Invasion Act (American Servicemembers Protection Act) Section 2008 a “AUTHORITY – The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court.”

This is the one from 2002, then, yes? Remember a bit about it now. So much legislation under the bridge at this point, the finer details on that one escaped me. Thanks…

Yes, 2002. It goes well beyond just service members and covers policy makers and government officials.

Ooooh! Absofuckinglutely (pardon the expletive). If it rocks Difi’s boat(and others of that same ilk), how can that be a bad thing?

Great idea Diane! LOL

Yeah. The great thing about Panetta is that all the right people hate him, and a few key good guys, such as Rush Holt, like him.

So maybe it is DiFi who is feelignthreatened? maybe that’s why she is threw her little hissy fit yesterday? I could see how finding out in the newspaper might make her think that she, and BFF jane Harman, are about to be thrown under the bus?

So, then does that mena that PEBO explained a scenario where that the truth could come out, but she could survive during their call yesterday?

Oh, to have been a fly on the walllllllll

The gamesmanship involving the new administration is just getting under way and already their playing at the seventh level. The notion that the fatuous WSJ’s editorial page is demanding competence in the management of a major government operation is laughable. Look at their support for Gonzales, Bush, Rumsfeld, Chao, McConnell, et al. Porter Gosse was an experienced politician and former CIA analyst. All he did was carry water for Kyle Sampson-like White House-anointed proteges whose job was to make the Agency less competent by purging it of those not with Veeper Cheney’s program. Look at the string of top Agency talent, good men all, caught up in corruption scandals.

So what’s the point? Schadenfreude that hides a secret happiness over the backstabbing and internal Dem squabbling? Whipping up a false controversy, using guerilla tactics against a wildly popular new president? Or is it fear that an accomplished Villager not yet beholden to the masters of the new intelligence industrial complex might put something ahead of protecting other Villagers? Like national security or competent management and analysis.

Washington doesn’t have a Village idiot; its a village of idiots.

Leon Panetta is a shrewd pick on many levels. But the way it’s stirring up the cozy Bush collaborators is a sight to behold. We all hope this means that mixed in with Obama’s rhetoric about moving forward to solve our critical national security problems, we will start to hear the word ACCOUNTABILITY. It’s going to take great gobs of savor-faire for Obama to go after the people responsible for the crimes without the Media turning it into a witchhunt.
-Jumpig In

I suspect the WSJ is as concerned about the information Obama may receive, say, about Syria and Iran via Panetta as about torture. Looks to me like Obama is a clean info type of guy.

The Village is not pleased. Freaked, in fact.

ham handed use of the media?

My bet is on Cheney people.

ham handed, indeed,
Bob Baer yesterday said the intel folk looked at the oversight committee with the order:

treat them like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them manure”

and these were the folks Cheney people wanted to skirt and keep in the dark
so many groups, so many enemies

Yes, I just caught the bit on Rachel Maddow, very good piece with him. I expect more McCain style howling (reminiscent of the POW hearings) from DiFi and Rocky. They certainly don’t want the genie to leave the bottle.