Comments on: Late Late Nite FDL: Canon In D http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 19:33:05 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Elliott http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784385 Elliott Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:35:36 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784385 <p><strong>(((katymine)))</strong></p> (((katymine)))

]]> By: sangemon http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784276 sangemon Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:23:28 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784276 <p>Thanks for posting this Suzanne. </p> <p>One of the greatest pieces of music ever written. It contains the secret of the universe.</p> Thanks for posting this Suzanne.

One of the greatest pieces of music ever written. It contains the secret of the universe.

]]> By: wigwam http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784251 wigwam Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:46:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784251 <p>Everything you’ve said is exactly as I’ve understood it. </p> <p>But through much of the 19th century and through the first half of the 20th century, Britain, a rather small nation, ruled a vast empire. To do so they leveraged their forces by setting up countervailing forces. They exploited local rivalries where possible and crated some where none previously existed. The Wikipedia entry I linked to has lots of instances, and it left out places like, for instance, Northern Ireland to which a protestant population was imported by the Brits. </p> <p>Their opening of Palestine to Jewish immigration was born in large part of similar motivations on their part and as in so many other places it got out of hand and left a horrible legacy that lasted for another 50 years or more, e.g., South Africa, Ireland, Cyprus, India/Pakistan, and Israel/Palestine. </p> <p>The I/P situation in 1948 was powder keg of Britain’s making, which Truman ignited by supporting the establishment of Israel, over State Department objections. (His reasons were obvious.)</p> Everything you’ve said is exactly as I’ve understood it.

But through much of the 19th century and through the first half of the 20th century, Britain, a rather small nation, ruled a vast empire. To do so they leveraged their forces by setting up countervailing forces. They exploited local rivalries where possible and crated some where none previously existed. The Wikipedia entry I linked to has lots of instances, and it left out places like, for instance, Northern Ireland to which a protestant population was imported by the Brits.

Their opening of Palestine to Jewish immigration was born in large part of similar motivations on their part and as in so many other places it got out of hand and left a horrible legacy that lasted for another 50 years or more, e.g., South Africa, Ireland, Cyprus, India/Pakistan, and Israel/Palestine.

The I/P situation in 1948 was powder keg of Britain’s making, which Truman ignited by supporting the establishment of Israel, over State Department objections. (His reasons were obvious.)

]]> By: T-Bear http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784248 T-Bear Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:36:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784248 <p>Clarification: The British Protectorate was a creation of the Versailles Peace treaty addressing the breakup of the Ottoman empire so the Palestinian Protectorate did not exist prior to the end of the Ottoman empire but was the negotiated agreement for administration of the territory in due course. IIRC the Zionists in Britain publicly lobbied their “rights” to return to Palestine which the Balfour addressed having limitations and conditions which were subsequently ignored by the Zionists. Fisk still has the narrative concerning the background and politics involved.</p> Clarification: The British Protectorate was a creation of the Versailles Peace treaty addressing the breakup of the Ottoman empire so the Palestinian Protectorate did not exist prior to the end of the Ottoman empire but was the negotiated agreement for administration of the territory in due course. IIRC the Zionists in Britain publicly lobbied their “rights” to return to Palestine which the Balfour addressed having limitations and conditions which were subsequently ignored by the Zionists. Fisk still has the narrative concerning the background and politics involved.

]]> By: T-Bear http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784247 T-Bear Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:22:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784247 <p>I find wigwam’s POV a bit simplistic and abbreviated and distorted as a result. IIRC the Zionist movement caught the public imagination as early as 1900’s and there was Zionist immigration into the Palestinian Protectorate throughout the period 1900 to 1940’s. The end of WWII saw a massive influx of Zionists that overwhelmed the ability of Palestine to assimilate the foreign population being imposed through the British Protectorate. The British lost control of their protectorate when faced with Zionist terrorist groups, mentioned in the Guardian article. With the UN/US backed resolution creating Israel. The terrorists that usurped British Authority came into possession of the Israeli government, Britain washed their hands of the problem, the rest is history/propaganda/disinformation/myth/lies not necessarily in that order.</p> I find wigwam’s POV a bit simplistic and abbreviated and distorted as a result. IIRC the Zionist movement caught the public imagination as early as 1900’s and there was Zionist immigration into the Palestinian Protectorate throughout the period 1900 to 1940’s. The end of WWII saw a massive influx of Zionists that overwhelmed the ability of Palestine to assimilate the foreign population being imposed through the British Protectorate. The British lost control of their protectorate when faced with Zionist terrorist groups, mentioned in the Guardian article. With the UN/US backed resolution creating Israel. The terrorists that usurped British Authority came into possession of the Israeli government, Britain washed their hands of the problem, the rest is history/propaganda/disinformation/myth/lies not necessarily in that order.

]]> By: wigwam http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784246 wigwam Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:11:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784246 <p>Per the<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule" rel="nofollow"> Wikipedia’s entry on “divide and rule”</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>One of the many factors contributing to the approval of an increase in Jewish immigration to Palestine was motivated by a desire to maintain British dominance in the Middle East by Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour in 1917. The first Governor of Jerusalem Sir Ronald Storrs stated that <strong>Israel “will form for England a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.”</strong> [9]</p></blockquote> Per the Wikipedia’s entry on “divide and rule”:

One of the many factors contributing to the approval of an increase in Jewish immigration to Palestine was motivated by a desire to maintain British dominance in the Middle East by Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour in 1917. The first Governor of Jerusalem Sir Ronald Storrs stated that Israel “will form for England a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.” [9]

]]> By: EdwardTeller http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784244 EdwardTeller Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:02:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784244 <p>Both books I’ve read and recommended. I’m re-reading parts of Fisk’s ponderous tome right now. You’re right, and wigwam has a valid point, too.</p> Both books I’ve read and recommended. I’m re-reading parts of Fisk’s ponderous tome right now. You’re right, and wigwam has a valid point, too.

]]> By: T-Bear http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784240 T-Bear Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:54:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784240 <p>Refraining from disputing your rendition of history, am sure it plays well somewhere. The most illuminating narrative I have is that of Robert Fisk’s <em><strong>The Great War for Civilization</strong></em>. Couple that with the scholarship of Norman Finkelstein’s <em><strong>Beyond Chutzpah</strong></em> documenting numerous atrocities denied by Israeli/Zionist propaganda and disinformation efforts. Between these two works, an effective filter for disinformation can be constructed. But then, that is what the writer states in his considered opinion.</p> Refraining from disputing your rendition of history, am sure it plays well somewhere. The most illuminating narrative I have is that of Robert Fisk’s The Great War for Civilization. Couple that with the scholarship of Norman Finkelstein’s Beyond Chutzpah documenting numerous atrocities denied by Israeli/Zionist propaganda and disinformation efforts. Between these two works, an effective filter for disinformation can be constructed. But then, that is what the writer states in his considered opinion.

]]> By: wigwam http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784238 wigwam Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:33:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784238 <p>The answer is always that same: “Last time we weren’t brutal enough.”</p> The answer is always that same: “Last time we weren’t brutal enough.”

]]> By: TheLurkingMod http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784237 TheLurkingMod Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:33:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/06/late-late-nite-fdl-canon-in-d/#comment-1784237 <p>Attaturk is upstairs!<br /><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/07/all-class/" rel="nofollow">All Class</a></p> Attaturk is upstairs!
All Class

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