There’s more evidence today of Israeli use of cluster bombs, originally noted by Laura Doty at Oxdown. The Times of London features a photo in it’s coverage (see Gaza Conflict slide show) with the following description:
An artillery round sends out bomblets above Gaza City, which continues to be attacked by Israeli forces
(h/t Brandon of VoteVets who points in email to this description of the weapons seen).
The use of cluster bombs – which have a large footprint when initially dropped and then remain a threat for decades – in a location like the Gaza Strip which is so packed with people is horrifying.
Conditions in Gaza continue to worsen:
Since the beginning of the Israeli invasion, 500 people in Gaza were killed, of which approximately 70 children and 27 women. By now, a total of 2,650 Gazans are injured of which more than 270 children and 650 women. Despite the Israeli recurrent discourse, facts are clear and Israel’s war has mainly been conducted against civilians.
The medical and health situation in Gaza is on the edge of collapse, facing a severe lack of vital medical supplies. Surgeries are now made without anaesthesias or sterile equipment, as anaesthetics, sterile medical gloves or needles are sometimes no longer available.
The heath sector in Gaza was already qualified as ‘in crisis’ before the beginning of the Israeli attacks and is now overloaded with severe injured and traumas resulting from the air strikes and ground operation. Before the beginning of the recent crisis, 105 medicines for severe and chronic diseases were reported lacking. All basic medical supplies are lacking, and the situation has worsened since the main warehouse stocking medicines in Gaza was bombed last week.
The 13 governmental hospitals from Gaza provide 1,500 beds and chronic patients such as suffering from hearth problems or cancers were sent home. Half of the 60 ambulances available in the Strip are out of order, struck by Israeli strikes.
And as the International Middle East Media Center notes:
It is worth mentioning that the official number of casualties could be much higher than reported, as dozens of wounded residents who suffered mild or even moderate injuries were release without registration due to the overcrowded hospitals as the Israeli offensive continues.
It’s also important to remember that while sources identify a large number of the dead and wounded as men, by no means are all men Hamas fighters. Many are just like Laila Al-Arian’s grandfather and Laila El-Haddad’s father:
I see the number on my caller ID; my heart races. I answer my cell phone.
"We …are under..heavy bombardment. Heavy bombardment" says my father in terrified, articulated syllables.
"They are bombing the Legislative Council building next to our house. They are bombing just down our street."
"Baba…are you safe, are you both safe??" I ask, not knowing what else to say.
"I have to go now..I have to go…i just wanted to tell you that..but I have to go…" he stammers. And the line goes dead.
And today, both are looking for safety under a rain of cluster bombs, dropped by Israel, bought and sold by us. Last night, the US blocked – once again – a call for a cease-fire at the UN Security Council, today Senate “leaders” Harry Reid, Dick Durbin and Mitch McConnell were “standing solidly behind Israel’s ground operation against Hamas.”
Let’s make sure they hear where we stand.
A very big H/T to Michael Braymen who made the map above – it is the best I’ve seen for understanding just how small Gaza is – and so how vulnerable the 1.5 million people who live there are.
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That is a very helpful map.
This is horrible, siun.
There are two countries on the planet who have not signed the treaty banning clusterbombs. The US and Israel. Puff up your chest GWB.
382 hrs & 52 min
the clusters are quite usefull to render an area useless after the invasion due to the delayed nature of some of the bomblets. i recall some vietnam children having limbs blown off thinking the little strange objects were toys.
It is time for the United States to take its place as ONE of the nations of the world – not the ONLY one who has any so-called legitimate position on anything. The right-wing constant yelling about how the UN never accomplishes anything – how can it when we hold a veto power over everything – and then veto absolutely everything.
We are also the only country who voted against the Human Rights Council resolution declaring that children have a ‘right to food’. The only one.
I am so disgusted right now.
My mom and I were discussing the Gaza situation and thinking that under the Bush Doctrine – we should have invaded Israel and rescued the Gazans. But of course – it’s say one thing and do the exact opposite.
I’m just sick.
As I recall, the late 2006 US Senate vote to replenish the huge tonnage of cluster bombs the IDF spewed from the air all over southern Lebanon AFTER a truce had been brokered was very lopsided.
Does anyone have a reference to the vote numbers on that, and the date, language of the bill, etc….? I just looked, couldn’t find it.
If these bombs are being used in this way, those who voted for the replenishment bear very direct, possibly criminal culpability.
Check out the video in this RawStory post:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/….._0104.html
It’s graphic. Be prepared. Why won’t the American media show this? Oh that’s right! They don’t care and are only on Israel’s side!
Large numbers of Vietnamese continue to be injured today owing to unexploded ordinance from that disastrous war. It would appear that Israel is intent on repeating our crimes.
apparently, if Israel cannot have Gaza they will make sure no one can.
as I have said, that dolt bastard Bolton is right about the UN: it doesn’t work …
…. BECAUSE the US vetoes everything meaningful.
lokywoky: beautiful point about the Bush Doctrine. The hypocrisy is perpetually enriched.
the only senate vote i know about was on a proposed ban (the amendment failed). here it is in case it is of use to you: S.Amdt. 4882, roll call vote, thomas link.
also this link fest from electronic intifada is very good:
http://electronicintifada.net/…..ml#cluster
This is just stunning.. and the first time I ever read or heard about it.
Have a link or two handy? If true, I would sure like to spread them around.
The Israelis are making Gaza utterly uninhabitable – destroyed the infrastructure, cut off access to food and other essential supplies, and now cluster bombs in heavily populated areas.
Perhaps they are going to create “opportunities” for people to leave?
Cluster bombs, movie grenade-size chunks of metal, act like land mines, because they don’t all shriek and explode on impact. Some lay there until further disturbed, picked up by children, jostled by carts, rumbled by local traffic or minor earth movements, or by the passage of time. Then they go boom, and kill people as efficiently as when they jump off burning, collapsing office towers. Using them indiscriminately against an urban, civilian population is a war crime.
The point, I assume, is to deem all of Gaza a war zone, as Bush deems all of America and the world a war zone, so as to remove reason and proportionality as limits on the use of power. It dehumanizes those they attack, in part by keeping out reporters, who have the choice not to walk among the soon-to-be dead. No one mourns the ants on the anthill; they mourn only those they know.
That’s not it.
There was a September or October 2006 Senate vote to replenish the clusters used in August, IIRC. It was incredibly lopsided. I remember that both my senators, Stevens and Murkowski voted to replenish. I believe part of the issue was whether or not to waive a previous requirement that Israel guarantee the bombs wouldn’t be used in urban settings or some such thing.
Opportunity to die seems more likely.
ET, I think this might help.
That is terrifying. BE CAREFUL! If you go to the source link, your browser immediately shuts down – at least Safari did 2x.
I was trying to figure out how to embed it at my site. It is awful, but every American should be forced to see it five times.
sorry, that’s the only one i can remember. are you sure it’s not it? it was an amendment to a dod authorization bill, so when it was defeated that meant the sales could go through (and it was the right time frame – september 2006).
oh well, if you do find something in addition – please leave a link on this thread because i’d like to know about it… thanks, i’ll check back later
I guess that’s what I was looking for, although I think there was also a vote on whether or not to replenish the depleted stocks after the Hezbollah War.
Here is a list of our Senators who voted, in September 2006, on whether or not the Israelis (it was clearly meant for them) could or could not use cluster bombs in such places as the Gaza Strip or in Gaza City itself, which now appears to be happening:
For using cluster bombs in Gaza City:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Against using cluster bombs in Gaza City:
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)
I posted this in EPUland on an earlier thread.
“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French… What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct… If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs… As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.” M K Gandhi
that IS a good one SD.
I blogged about this (link at sig) on my post – Bush’s Christmas Present to the WOrld.
Human Rights Council Working Group
You can read the entire working document here – we also voted against every single other resolution that was passed and there were lots. In some cases we were the only one again – and in some cases we were joined by Somalia and Congo and other nice places like that.
Grrr!
Yes, that is prophetic.
In the book The Bitter Harvest, by Sami Hadawi, there is a similar quote by Einstein. I loaned out my copy of Bitter Harvest, and haven’t gotten it back. I’ve looked for the quote from Einstein on the web and can’t find it.
In the quote, Einstein wrote to a friend that he was concerned that what Judaism had grown to mean in the time since it had been a state was something far more meaningful than the concept of nationhood, and that he felt the establishment of a national Jewish state might diminish what Judaism had come to mean to world civilization. That is huge paraphrasing, but IIRC, essentially accurate.
Does anyone know what quote I’m referring to, and have a web-based cite?
It would seem this Israeli attack-incursion/infrastructure takeout/Hamas decapitation is being fully driven by number of calendar days remaining before Jan.20,2009 compression.
Whatever the Bush/Cheney regime “greenlighted” Israel on would appear to need to be well in place,completed,done and in pullback mode by Jan.20th.
Introduction of cluster bombs surely would leave a wide Israeli imposed “footprint” on Gaza for some considerable time to come. Southern Lebanon was given a large dose of this Israeli tactic during the last Israeli incursion into Lebanon.
In view of the percentage of Gazan population under age 20(50% or more) the use of cluster bombs and the myriad “bomblets” dispersed across wide areas of a rubble strewn ghettoized high density population will bring about much civilian suffering,limb losses and death for many Gazan families for a long time to come. The social and medical costs,the mayhem this will present in any kind of cleanup operations and impact on Gazan families from several directions all at same surely incredibly devastating.
That WashingtonDC has left fingerprints all over this Israeli conducted barbarism cannot be denied. WashingtonDC also fully practicing obstruction and time runouts at the United Nations.
G.W.Bush should have a wing at his “library” in Texas that shows lots of photos of Lebanese and Gazans killed by IAF airstrikes,IDF artillery and tank gunfire and the results of cluster bombs being used.He surely has made it a part of his legacy as an American President. War criminal that he is.
That G.W.Bush and Condi Rice have bloody hands in all this Israeli mayhem and death dealing should not be in any doubt.
Those who insist Israel is the victim in any of what Israel has been doing in Lebanon,the West Bank or in Gaza surely are bankrupt of valid moral or ethical integrity.
That Israel would expect or expects this pathetic conduct it awards itself to lead anywhere other than Israel’s becoming a West Asian pariah a full illustration of Israeli folly and stupidity.
Should Israel suffer a well deserved failure and final political defeat in/from all of this it will fully underline the delusion of Israeli strategic thinking and corrupted Israeli politics and policies.
And the full and quite striking in depth American responsibilty for so much of Israeli war crimes conduct and ultimate political failure in ME.
Well, it is important to realize that Bolton is one of the chief screamers that the UN doesn’t work…AND he thinks it should be disbanded. That’s why picking him as Ambassador to the UN was such a horrid thing – and why he wound up being a recess appointment because Bush could not get him through a Rethug controlled Senate.
Of course that fits with the entire reich-wing philosophy of saying that government doesn’t work – and then they get busy and wreck it so they can say “See, I told you so”.
exactly right, lokywoky @ 25
The Raw Story video works well on Firefox.
Little wonder, isn’t it, why the Israelis, like George Bush, want to keep real reporters outside out of their war zones, which for Bush, includes all of America. Humanizing death and violence and the deprivation of essential civil liberties might mean there would be less of it, and punishment for those who commit it out of all proportion to self-defense.
This is a political war of choice, an aggressive war on a people because they exist. If this were black-on-black violence in Africa, white Europeans would call it genocide. This administration, and its counterpart in Israel (the government, not the state or its people or their co-religionists), call it a “necessity”, an attribute that like “terrorism”, is largely in the eyes of the beholder.
I know I already said it, but this is just stunning. The link in your comment no longer works. I think this is its new location.
Thanks
Thank you for that link, ES. That shameful roll call vote! 70 to 30 against a bill protecting citizens from cluster bombs! One senator who voted with the 70 is a medical doctor, Rep Coburn (R)OK.
words fail…
Cluster bombs or HardSTOP?
Thanks ES for the new link – I just posted an Oxdown Diary with the same broken link so added it to the comments – and fixed it on my site.
This got absolutely zero play in the media. I guess since we voted against it that means it is not important.
So what’s the difference? A cluster bomb is the common name for a bomb that explodes above the ground and disperses a lot of smaller bombs to cause the real damage.
Obfuscation by calling it something else doesn’t diminish the damage and especially not the casualties if this thing is used in a densely populated area.
It wasn’t the raw story embed of the video that crashed, it was going to their source, looking for the embed code…
We posted about that video on “Guides last night I linked to it again today in a comment to a previous posting here on FDL today. Safari has something of a reputation for flaking out so it’s more likely to be the browser. Try firefox. Here’s the original page containing the video. BTW rawstory have their attribution wrong it originally was posted on several sites including Muslim TV before Sabah picked it up.
The difference is that the device described is designed to minimize the numbers of civilian casualties, and apparently doesn’t leave cluster bomblets lying around for kids to pick up.
Leave it to Mark to have the real story. Thanks!!
Minimize? And just how does that work when the building you have targetted is full of people – and instead of one bomb, you now have 54 of them?
My point stands. The only way you minimize casualties with a weapon like this is to not use it. Period.
It is obvious just from watching the coverage on CNN that Israel is using these cluster bombs almost exclusively. You see the explosion a few hundred feet over the city, then a huge spray of bomblets raining down from the original explosion.
My advice to the Israeli government for a peaceful solution to this conflict and an end to Hamas lobbing rockets into Israel: Of the 1.5 million population in Gaza, 44.5 percent of the population is under age 14. The average age is 17 years old. Israel should give each one of these kids an X-Box, a Play Station II, and a BMX motorbike, then in a short time, these kids won’t be the least bit interested in joining a terrorist organization like Hamas.
Apparently the whole idea that these might not be cluster bombs on a thread about cluster bombs is completely irrelevant. My bad.
Whether they are ‘cluster bombs’ as you define them or these HardSTOP things, what’s the difference. The Israelis are targetting a very dense civilian population with weapons that the rest of the world has agreed are inhumane and should be banned. Further, targetting a civilian population at all is a war crime. The particular type of bomb doesn’t really make a whole he** of a lot of difference at this point.
And parsing whether these are ‘cluster bombs’ or ‘munitions dispensers’ doesn’t really make much difference to the women, little kids, old people and non-Hamas fighters, does it?
Is this it?
http://www.rense.com/general59/ein.htm
Confirmation from Haaretz that Israel used cluster bombs on Saturday.
No, that isn’t it. What you found is a fairly well-known LTO from prominent people. What Hamadi cites in his book was correspondence between Einstein and a friend.
Honestly, I can not tell how serious Loo Hoo is here. I agree that the article may not be good but I would not call it “horrible.” I do wonder what the map of Rhode Island is all about though. I think Loo Hoo was being sarcastic when they said it helped.
Loo Hoo was saying the situation of using Cluster Bombs in Gaza was horrible,.
The map of Rhode Island is to show how small Gaza is. There are 1.2 million people living in that tiny place – and it is only about a quarter the size of our smallest state.
That’s what helps – puts things in perspective as we try to understand the situation there.
The Raw Story vid is fake. It’s recut scenes from the 2005 explosion of a Hamas truck carrying rockets at a rally. I’ve now seen the original footage and it’s definitely a recut/relabelling job.
here is a link to the story related to the truck.
I hope that works. I suspect others will attack the story though.
Mre links for the explosion from a hamas rally are here
and here
That’s interesting. They should leave it up there, but explain how they were had. The video is horrifying.
What does that do to credibility of persons “reporting” these videos? We have seen numerous times when Video and Still photos are edited by some to make a case for israeli atrocities and they continue to be shown to be untrue or at least not what they are represented to be.
I guess, my series of posts is trying to say. Let’s not jump to hasty conclusions, about who is bombing whom. I do agree to that a cease fire is in order.
While I agree with you on the issue of the video and credibility for those posting it, the issue of who is bombing whom is not at issue.
Hamas has shot rockets at Israel, killing a few (less than 10) people and doing some minor damage.
At this point the death toll in Gaza is reaching 470 or more and wounded over 2000. This stuff is being reported with a great deal of self-satisfaction by the Israeli government.
And to lay this all at the feet of Hamas is disingenuous at best. Israel has a long history of provacative attacks and incursions into the Palestinian territories, and then when Hamas (or Fatah or the PLO for that matter) retaliate, the cry goes up “we have a right to defend ourselves”. And the response is always disproportionate – as it is this time. A few to a dozen Israelis, mostly soldiers die and are wounded. Hundreds of Palestinians die and thousands are wounded – and a very high percentage of them are children.
http://palestinian.ning.com/
http://palestinian.ning.com/fo…..-the-story
Contemporary coverage.
The tragic pictures I found at your links are documentation for war crimes.
With Bush paralyzing the UN with his dictatorial veto, what can we do?
The UN charter needs to be amended so a 3/4 vote by the entire assembly can over-ride any veto.
The sane people of the world must regain the upper hand in world justice.
Its always nice when someone who either knows next to nothing about munitions, or just chooses to lie manages to get published and so distort the views of the easily amused.
What about what the *&^% Islamists have been doing to Israel since it’s inception. Personally, I don’t know if the Israelis are are shooting cluster shells or dropping cluster bombs, and frankly I don’t care. Think of all the rockets fired into Israel with no particular target, just people.
Think of the supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah and those organization publicly announcing time and again that they will not rest until Israel and the Jews are wiped from the face of the earth.
You can only get slapped so many times before you have to slap back or die. Lets show a little compassion to the real victims in Israel.
Sorry “pfrmgfo”, too many brainwashed people out there. They are blaming the Jew’s and some of these @#%*’s are pointing fingers at the US.
This sums it up:
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today,
there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.
It amazes me that there are thousands protesting Israel’s self-defense, but nobody protested Hamas’ rocketing of Israel. What a joke the UN is as well. Israel has every right to counter what has already been an act of war by Hamas, and if those “Palestinians” had an ounce of courage they would stop hiding behind their civilians…then the civilians would not be getting killed. So, they only have themselves to blame. By the by…there is no such thing as a palestinian….these people are merely displaced Jordanians from the early Arab-Israeli wars….even their own countries do not want them back….why should Israel be forced to make room for them?
For 8 years, Hamas has been shelling and rocketing southern Israel. Enough is enough. Hamas is a disaster for the Palestinians, and a thorn in the side of Egypt.
Cluster bombs are designed to prevent Hamas terrorists from firing those rockets. Any other country faced with such agression for 8 years would probably carpet bomb the whole Gaza strip. Instead, Israel risks it’s soldiers lives to stop the rocket fire while minimizing as best it can the civilian casualties. However, Hamas bares full responsibility for the tragedy that now befalls Gaza.
If any of you who attack Israel are really interested in being open minded and seeing the other side for once, check out:
http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/flas…../2673.html
I love how you people had to fit Bush into the problems in Gaza. I am sure Bush ordered the Hamas to fire rockets and motar rounds into Israel. Israel doesn’t need the US to defend its boarders, or it people. Bush had nothing to do with this, if he had the 52’s would in the in the air and the strip would have been stripped.
Seems to me Israel has had enough and is dealing with the Hama’s in the only way they will understand. These people have been at war since the conception on war. No one that includes you whiney milk fed internet tree huggers! will change that. No president or ruler will ever change that, they will have to stop it themselves.
Further on Hardstop – the “penetrators” are small explosive devices with programmable fuses and a couple of different failsafes designed to make it “unlikely” to leave dud charges behind that civilians can accidently explode later. Whether these or the conventional clusterbomb are actually in use by Israel right not – who knows.