May the Good doG have mercy on the souls of the warmongers. As I am not sure I have that much capacity for forgiveness.

Neither do I Dakine … this is such horrid news.

A sad day for humanity.

CNN.com now says “Israeli ground troops have begun moving slowly into Gaza, sources tell CNN.”

They’ve just gone to breaking news coverage …

Sameh Habeeb’s post today includes the comment that eyewitnesses have observed shells that explode before impact, with littler bombs emerging, raising question whether Israel is using cluster bombs (as they did in Lebanon in 2006).

Thank you, Siun and mfi.

Ha’aretz:

Palestinian witnesses said the artillery barrage caused a large explosion in Gaza City as well as a series of blasts stitching the nearby frontier with Israel.

Channel 10 television quoted a witness as saying that Israel was shelling targets along the entire length of the shared border.

More than any other IDF operation, this is truly an inversion of the David vs. Goliath story. I just got up off my knees from prayer for all concerned.

CNN notes there are no shelters or ways for Gazans to get away or get to safety.

“Some idea of the actual Israeli plans may be seen in this translation from Missing Links of an Israeli Channel Two report from March 2006 following a visit from Condi Rice:”

Think that should be “March 2008″

CNN interviewing IDF Major – asking what is the goal?

We have infantry supported by artillery and navy to take over launching areas.

The political leaders of both sides hope to prosper from the conflict- perhaps they will. Gaza will have a chance to blow up Israeli tanks- always good for a few votes…

Democracy encourages war apparently

Could I just say that being warned to leave one’s home prior to it, its neighborhood, neighbors et al being obliterated by a fierce and well-funded war machine can hardly be comforting nor viewed as fair play. Vengeance is mine, thus saith the Israelis. Fah!

yes – corrected now and thank you!

You’re welcome.

If they are telling the Palestinians to go to Gaza City for safety, why are they shelling Gaza City?

Blue America upstairs with Phil Munger

From the Likud Party platform:

The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

Kadima only split from Likud over tactics, not goals. Anyone who did not believe that this was an inevitable outcome was not paying attention. The goal of Likud and Kadima is the complete annexation of the former “Kingdom of David” (Greater Seribai, anyone?) and the elimination of the Palestinians from those lands.

We’ll be updating a bit later today.

That should be “Greater Serbia.” It would appear that I am too angry to type clearly.

When I was young, impressionable, and living as a minority in a predominantly Jewish area (Al Franken’s home town, in fact), among other things, I read Leon Uris’ “Exodus.” I was filled with righteous indignation on behalf of my Jewish brothers and sisters, reviving all the Bible stories I heard as a kid about persecution of God’s people. I was (and for years have been, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding) a fiercely loyal supporter of Israel. It is coming to me that I planted myself in quick-dry cement, such that I couldn’t turn to view the whole landscape. As I read here, I see that I am not alone in that. Now I gotta tell you, that makes me sad and also no small amount angry. And if I feel betrayed (whose life has had almost zero consequences related to the ME, other than an ex-husband who traveled there on bidness for a while), I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine how the Palestinians feel. Guess what. It’s time for someone with clout to tell Israel to get a grip. And my usual disclaimer: I do not see Palestine/Hamas as blameless in all of this. However…

Siun, I don’t know you at all. But I am very grateful for your reporting (imagine that, people — reporting!) and updating on the Gaza horror story.

on one of the cable news channels the other day they were talking about how they ARE using them, purchased from us. even gave a number. went on to describe what they are and how they work. the report started with the ‘pinpointing’ of bombs on hamas, but the report didn’t pursue the cluster bombs and why they are using them. but they did mention them…they used another name for them, then used the cluster bomb name as an afterthought when it brought dead air for a minute. the govt/contractors are disguising the use with a new official terminology for the weapon now. sorry, can’t remember the word they used. they aren’t using the word ‘cluster’ anymore, and i think it was an ‘oops’ moment by the reporter but once it was out, they kept going with it. haven’t heard anything else on it since.

i keep wondering, if we give them the money, and they buy the weapons from us, doesn’t that mean WE are buying them?

“launching pads’ aka ANYWHERE.

Enjoy.

Umm, no. Kadima was formed with its only clearly stated goal being unilateral seperation. The successes of the withdrawal from Lebanon (resulting in a kidnapping, resulting in another war) and the the withdrawel from Gaza (Hamas takeover and the ensuing rocket attacks) put a squash to any sense in the Kadima platform. Those who are praying may hope for an outcome like the following : Israel successfully crushes Hamas and the PLO with some international support re-establishes a single governance over the Palestinian territories that will work towards a peace process re-invigorated under an Obama administration (Bush and the neo-cons really DID drop the ball on this one, like every thing else for the past 8 years). Assuming Israel succeed, Kadima may be re-elected and if this scenario plays out, then there are reasonable actors in place going forward. If Israel is as anti-successful as in the war with Hezbollah (could happen, it seems to be a a period where anti-tank weapons are better than tanks), then Israel could vote Bibi into office in February, he of the Likud whose platform you quoted. Perhaps he will turn to be like Begin, but he was an asshole the last time he was in power so I doubt it.

That Americans have fingerprints all over this IDF/IAF deathdealing spree on and in Gaza will assuredly come back to haunt USA. The ignorance and arrogance of Condi Rice in these matters is a pure indictment of her lack of a working intellect in the service of a imbecile American President.

One is reminded again just how one-sided the scale and ferocity of armed forces are in these Israel vs. unwanted human beings/refugees/civilian populations.

One day it would be justice well and correctly served to see Condi Rice,G.W.Bush and any others who have sought to pursue this American sponsored terrorism on Arab Palestinians brought up on war crimes charges,convicted and sent away to prison for a long time.

These Americans surely have blood on their hands as much as the craven and crazed Israeli warmongers and deathdealers.

This monstrous conduct on part of Israel and USA cannot have a good ending.

My Oxdown (and JustPeaceNow) diary re: cluster bomb report.

Kadima initially thought to leave the relatively undesirable Gaza to the Palestinians as a cover for annexing the much more valuable West Bank. They have since changed their minds when they discovered that Israel cannot unilaterally impose the leadership of their choice on the Palestinians.

Israel cannot win this militarily short of outright genocide. Period. They displaced the PLO and got Hamas. If they displace Hamas, they will only get worse. I pray to all that is good and holy in the universe that none of the things you hope for come to pass and that a just peace can be established.

This Bush sanctioned disgrace serves two purposes:

1). It lets the Neocons get their rocks off one more time killing Muslims.

2). It creates more hatred for America in the Middle East just in time for the Obama Administration.

Israeli government, Bush and the Neocons — fuck ‘em all.

from the Hamas Charter:

The enemies have been scheming for a long time, and they have consolidated their schemes, in order to achieve what they have achieved. They took advantage of key elements in unfolding events, and accumulated a huge and influential material wealth which they put to the service of implementing their dream. This wealth [permitted them to] take over control of the world media such as news agencies, the press, publication houses, broadcasting and the like. [They also used this] wealth to stir revolutions in various parts of the globe in order to fulfill their interests and pick the fruits. They stood behind the French and the Communist Revolutions and behind most of the revolutions we hear about here and there. They also used the money to establish clandestine organizations which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests. Such organizations are: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, B’nai B’rith and the like. All of them are destructive spying organizations. They also used the money to take over control of the Imperialist states and made them colonize many countries in order to exploit the wealth of those countries and spread their corruption therein. As regards local and world wars, it has come to pass and no one objects, that they stood behind World War I, so as to wipe out the Islamic Caliphate. They collected material gains and took control of many sources of wealth. They obtained the Balfour Declaration and established the League of Nations in order to rule the world by means of that organization. They also stood behind World War II, where they collected immense benefits from trading with war materials and prepared for the establishment of their state. They inspired the establishment of the United Nations and the Security Council to replace the League of Nations, in order to rule the world by their intermediary. There was no war that broke out anywhere without their fingerprints on it

Bush’s “gut” has always seemed to tell him that if the Israelis are allowed to kill enough Palestinians, the surviving Palestinians will just give up.

He has NO good reason for thinking this- but it’s what he thinks.

Are you sure that isn’t Ron Paul’s campaign platform?

-G

Ehud Barak giving a statement now. “This will not be short”.

I did some googling and found that you are half-right : the solution they were planning on imposing on the WB was similar to that Barack had offered when negotiations broke down (Keeping some of the settlement blocks and gaurding the East side of Palestine, the Jordan Valley). Not unilateral annexation of WB but also pretty far from the 67 borders. (And perhaps Likud is close to this, I just think of the more extreme Likudniks who call for expulsion). But as I said, Kadima broke down when it turned out that unilateral withdrawals don’t work (as was seen in Lebanon and is being seen now in Gaza).

I disagree that Israel has to commit genocide to “win”. It does need to significantly weaken Hamas and create a sitation where the PLO can step in as “saviors” and not as lackeys. And it is nice to have those quotes from the Hamas charter, (though charters can be changed, as happened with the PLO charter). But those quotes indicate why some don’t think there is much room for negotiation with this particular group.

In the way of a general inquiry for those who regardless how unpersuasive they are or remain seem to lurk never very far away to jump in with Israeli propaganda message streaming.

Basis for this inquiry having to do with why you insist on visiting sites such as Siun’s here at FDL when you clearly are unpersuasive and wasting time and effort expended sending in flotsam like the monoparagraph comment number 30 example above?

That bit about the Rotary Clubs is the tipoff.

We got the Likud Party platform above, I was showing the other side of the coin.

And here’s my source:

The Palestine Center’s purpose is to bring together people and resources within the American and Palestinian communities to educate about Palestine and the Palestinian people’s ongoing quest for sovereignty on their land, civil and political rights and an end to Israeli occupation.

Hamas Charter

Not exactly Israeli propaganda.

Of course the Bush is encouraging the Israelis. He is running out of time to get Armageddon started. No rapture for him if he fails.
oldswede

Tens of thousands of people in European cities have been protesting Israel’s military offensive in Gaza.

Hamas Provoked Attacks, Bush Says

EU presidency: Israel ground op in Gaza ‘defensive not offensive’

if a death sentence is to be acceptable punishment for crazy ideas the list of people who qualify will be long indeed.

That’s very well said. But if you have a look at the rest of the Hamas Charter, you can see that these ideas are not only crazy but dangerous.

If God had only saved the world from Bush’s infernal “gut”.

then used the cluster bomb name as an afterthought when it brought dead air for a minute.

Now that is a profound double entrende. The cluster bomb does bring “dead” air.

but once it was out, they kept going with it.

Yeah. That seems to be our lurching, corrupt government. Be horrifyingly sociopathic, and if not tackled and brought down keep on pushing for your own toxic touchdown.

i keep wondering, if we give them the money, and they buy the weapons from us, doesn’t that mean WE are buying them?

We give Israel $3 billion a year for “self defense” weaponry. “Pre-emptive self defense” I suppose the truthiness squad will call it.

History will remember the plight of the Palestinians as the new holocaust and the world stood silent.

Proportionally, in US population terms, imagine 50,000 people dying in the world trade center. Imagine over 100,000 injured. Gaza has 1.5 million Palestinians with 460 deaths and 2,000+ injured. I see that mass punishment is alive and well. I hear people say, but they hide amongst the civilian population. Where will they go? Gaza is not a country with free borders. It is a concentration camp whose borders are tightly controlled by Israel. They have had a full embargo for 2 years because of Israel’s anger with the democratically elected, UN observed elections bringing in Hamas. A 2 year embargo! No medicines, little food. In America you have the right to bear arms and if someone is caught on your property you have the right to shoot. Israel is still in active occupation of Palestinian land. ACTIVE meaning settlers are swallowing more and more of it daily. Set aside the brain washing of the Arab = Muslim = Terrorist = Hamas equation that has been continuously fed to you. Replace the word Palestinian with American and the word Israeli with Great Britain and set the clock back….people have the right to defend their land, their people and live freely. Israel cannot be in contradiction to several UN security council resolutions, flaunt international law, torture, kill and occupy without having those living in their homes defend their property. A dog would do the same…what about fellow humans? Wake up people….now is the time to register where you stand on this issue because History will out the truth. This is not a ‘debate’ with problems on ‘both sides’. This is a current human tragedy that you are being lied about daily. Thank Goodness for the internet and free information, I ask all of you to search you tube videos for ‘occupation 101′ or other videos by Palestinians in the territories. Hear it from them, we do not need Israelis nor CNN to be our spokespeople, we have a voice…look it up if you dare and educate yourselves so that when your children ask you years from now ‘how could you let this happen?’ you will have an answer.

From what I can see from most of your responses you all are anti-Israel. This means it’ll be hard to argue any points, but I’ll try anyway.

@ Albinolion1: Your analogy makes absolutely no sense… Here’s a better one: If you are an American how would you like rockets from an Indian Reservation bombarding your town… or suicide bombers being armed in an Indian Reservation blowing up nightclubs and malls, killing hundreds of your neighbors. So when the US Army goes into the Indian Reservations and there are a few civilian casualties I’m sure no one would even say a word. This also goes for anyone who’s British. Except now replace the Indian Reservation with the IRA in Ireland.

I also find it amazing how everyone here is all about the suffering and fear of the Palestinians. How about you people go to Israel and stay in the areas under Hamas bombardment. How about you go to the market, or a nightclub, or a mall; always thinking maybe an explosion is gonna rip through my body. Why don’t you go live in Israel watching your friends and neighbors get murdered and then when there are some civilian casualties in a military operation see if you even think twice about it…

“Proportionally, in US population terms, imagine 50,000 people dying in the world trade center. Imagine over 100,000 injured. Gaza has 1.5 million Palestinians with 460 deaths and 2,000+ injured. I see that mass punishment is alive and well.” -Albinolion1

This makes no sense. Thats a lot more people then the world trade center and a lot less deaths/injuries. The ratio is much greater for the people present in the world trade center and those who died there as apposed to the people living in Gaza and those killed or wounded.

—————–
And for anyone saying that the Israelis torture and mistreat prisoners what happens to those captured by Islamic Extremists..? I think beheading and public executions are pretty brutal compared to a terrorist getting interrogated.

Everyone is so quick to judge Israel and very quick to ignore the acts of Islamic terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbolah who claim the lives of hundreds and thousands.