This morning the NPR ombudsman assured me (and anyone listening to Minnesota Public Radio this morning [about 40 minutes in I think]) that Israel has only killed Hamas military personnel. She “fact-checked” that NPR had indeed included that information in their reporting.

Great post, Ian. Keep poundin’ ‘em.

Wow, excellent post, Ian. Thanks.

When it comes to Hamas, one might think that Israel is committing the “g word.”

I’m gonna guess that the Ibraham Barzak whose byline the AP article carries is a Jew, which sort of sounds like a blatant conflict of interest. I’ve noticed that his take on things is notably Likudist.

Him being a Jew isn’t a conflict of interest, necessarily. I happen to know quite a few Jews who think what Israel is doing is appalling. In fact, the percentage of non-Jews who think Israel is wrong is far smaller than the percentage of Jews who think Israel is wrong, in my experience at least.

Gregory, the responses to the attacks on Israel and the coverage are not so easily parsed. For example, take a few moments to read the coverage at Ha’aretz and you will see a wide diversity of opinions – much wider than here in the US sadly.

Super post Ian – and great points made!

Context: Egypt receives the second most American aid after Israel. They know better than to open the border if the US doesn’t want it opened. Plus they don’t want refugees to flood into Egypt.

So we have a dictatorship working in consort with the US to intimidate a democratically elected government. Hypocracy rules
428 hrs & 5 min

So we have a dictatorship working in consort with the US to intimidate a democratically elected government. Hypocracy rules.

Good eyes. This is the kind of shit we pull all over the world as we profess to support Democracy and as we spread Freedom (at gunpoint).

Actually, Egypt is boxing them and keeping Gazans from fleeing while Israel kills them. Genocide.

Great post.

A horrible, horrible situation. But a great post nonetheless.

I was gonna say something about the US continuing to support coups but … Ian also points out that Gore v Bush pretty much fits that charge too, so I didn’t. Basically, the US wants what it wants and gets what it wants using power and propaganda. And Israel is the same. I’m disgusted.

All Democracy all the time everywhere until the US ”leadership” doesn’t like the choice of the people. ”Democracy” is just another propaganda point … when it fits. But no more than that. Our poltical AND moral philosphies are empty and perverted. And the world is infected with this virus.

Great article, Ian. Thanks.

Gaza is half flattened already. Anyone who supports this for any reason at all (especially 2,000 year old claptrap) is insane and without a soul.

Great post Ian.

I don’t think the g word is quite there yet. Give them time.

Russ Wellen at S&R exposes another pile of crap
http://www.scholarsandrogues.c…..#more-6402
427 hrs & 43 min

It is difficult to obtain data on mortality from crime and vehicular deaths in Israel.

I downloaded an excel spreadsheet the other day that indicates about 300 deaths per year in Israel from motor vehicle accidents. It doesn’t divide the DUI-related deaths.

Similarly, I can’t find a breakdown in English of crime-related or domestic violence-related deaths per year in Israel. Their government doesn’t provide information to a lot of databases that most European and North American governments contribute to.

Essentially, though, even from the paucity of accurate statistics the Israeli government does provide, DUIs and other homicides kill hundreds of times more Israelis than do these stupid, brain-dead rockets. I hate the rockets and the stupidity that propels them mindlessly across the desert skies. I also detest drunk drivers. One killed my brother.

The reality is that if the well-equipped Israeli police can’t stop hundreds of Israelis from being killed within their jurisdiction by their own citizens each year, how can the ill-equipped Palestinian police be expected to stop a couple of dozen cross-border Israeli deaths since the turn of the century?

Great posting as always and my thanks – as always

Oh, I’ll go with the g word. I have no tolerance for endless debates about is it or isn’t it. Is there a reason for not just saying it and using the whole word? We’d be accused of hysteria? Oh, ok, yeah, I’m hysterical all right.

Thank you, Ian. DUGG and commented there.

Egypt is boxing them and keeping Gazans from fleeing while Israel kills them

from the electronic intifada (12/31): Egypt seen as complicit in Gaza assault

As the Palestinian death toll approaches 400, much of popular anger throughout the Arab world has been directed at Egypt — seen by many as complicit in the Israeli campaign.

“Israel would not have hit Gaza like this without a green light from Egypt,” Hamdi Hassan, MP for the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest opposition movement, told IPS. “The Egyptian government allowed this assault on Gaza in hopes of finishing off Hamas.”

Egypt has said it cannot reopen the Rafah crossing, the sole transit point along Egypt’s 14 kilometer border with the Gaza Strip, in the absence of PA officials and European Union observers, as stipulated in a 2005 US-sponsored trilateral agreement between Israel, the PA and the EU.

Critics, however, reject this argument, and say there is no legal justification for keeping the border permanently closed to people and goods.

“Egypt isn’t even a signatory to the agreement, which expired after one year and was never renewed,” said Hassan. “Those cooperating with Israel are simply using this outdated agreement as an excuse to keep Rafah sealed.”

Despite increasingly vocal demands — by both street protestors and opposition MPs — to open the border to aid convoys in the wake of the recent Israeli assaults, the Egyptian government has dragged its feet.

“For the first two days of the campaign, the authorities forbade all aid convoys from entering Gaza,” Magdi Hussein, secretary-general of Egypt’s Islamist-leaning Labor Party (officially frozen since 2000) told IPS. “On the third and fourth days, limited aid was allowed in — but this was only due to mounting popular pressure.”

In a televised address 30 December, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak defended Egypt’s position by again referring to the 2005 border agreement. “Egypt doesn’t want to sanctify the division [between the rival political parties in Gaza and the West Bank] by opening the Rafah crossing in the absence of the PA and European observers,” he said.

For the last five days, Egypt has witnessed thousands-strong demonstrations at university campuses, mosques and professional syndicates. Amid an increasingly tight security presence, protestors have called for the permanent reopening of the Rafah border crossing and the severing of Egypt’s diplomatic relations with Israel.

“That protests are being staged all over Egypt — and will persist as long as the aggression continues — is an indication of the level of popular outrage,” said Hassan. “If the government doesn’t change its position and allow aid to flow freely into Gaza, the situation could become very dangerous.”

((((ET)))))

I just don’t see how what the Isreaelis are doing now can be considered appropriate. I heard a pro-Israeli pundit claim the Israelis were guilty of ”disproportionate patience.” WHAT?????

Here’s an idea. The Palestinians lob a rocket. The Israelis lob a rocket. ONE fucking ROCKET. Not flatten the whole region!

Here’s another idea. Let’s add up the dead. Yes, ALL the dead in the HISTORY of the whole mess. Who’s ahead? Ok, if you’re behind you can kill someone until you are even again.

These ideas are fair. Some sort of fair.

What is happening now is sick and insane.

i would imagine the israelis have a good idea how many rockets hamas might have. the attacks won’t stop until that supply is exausted.

The Palestinian rockets have not stopped yet. So either Israel is ”missing” them on purpose (or supplying them) or Israel is being outplayed.

If the rockets stop, Israel will lost the underpinning of its propaganda.

The rockets have nothing to do with anything.

New post

Anyone who still believes that our military is not in Iraq at Israel’s behest (demand) is not paying attention. Israeli Military Advisors were flooding into the Pentagon’s “Office Of Special Plans” to visit with the Treasonous Doug Feith almost weekly in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq. Karen Kwiatkowski worked there, and personally observed them being escorted in for private meetings without ever signing in to memorialize their coming and going.

This alone is EVIDENCE of IDF participation with Rumsfeld’s planning team – and a direct violation of the then-existing requirements that accurate visitor logs be key in the aftermath of 9/11. Feith and Rumsfeld violated US Law by allowing the IDF unfettered access inside the Pentagon for the purpose of planning an illegal use of US military forces.

It’s TREASON.

Interview Karen Kwiatkowski and ask her directly.

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2004/jan/19/00027/

Respectfully Ed, I think you miss a point. The Ketusha (sp?) rockets are about terrorism and the slim chance they might kill. They are designed to send a message more than anything else. And that message is, “We are trying to kill you and we don’t care who or what you are.”

Terrorism is not about the number of actual dead. It is about the creation of dread, the destabilization of government through the undermining of the basic social contract. Most people believe that Governemnt is suppose to keep it’s citizens safe from external attack. A DUI does not create dread, at least not in most people, because driving has a certain utility to it and it’s threat is not external.

I write not to defend the government of Israel, or its tactics, but try to to bring some perspective to the seemingly one-sided discussions. Hamas is both a civil humantarian organization AND a terrorist organization at the same time. Yes, they have been providing basic government functions in Lebanon for years and now in Gaza. But, they have “sworn” to destroy Israel! You must know that is not just saber rattling promises. They mean, “we will drive all Israelis into the Sea, if they can make it that far.”
So my question is: what is the right amount of response to an organization that has been arming for months, building tunnels for arms movement, and or in country assaults? They have shown not only the desire to attack but also the means to do so. How long does one wait? Must Israel always wait to “receive” the first punch?

as bad as things are – there is the possibility they could get much, much worse. no point using up all the words we have prematurely. also not fair. also hurts our credibility – better that we do our best to be as accurate and fair as possible.

what is the right amount of response to an organization that has been arming for months,

whatever it is, it should be the same regardless if that organization’s name is israel or hamas.

Ian, great post.

Ian,

What’s the polling data in the US, in Israel, and neighboring countries with regard to the siege and Israeli military action in Gaza?

Are we assuming here that Hamas is the government and elected representatives of all Palestenians? Are we assuming that Palestine (in its present day usage) has the right to be a soveriegn nation?
I am really wondering, is the outrage expressed related to the fact that one human is treating another human badly? When a teenage bomber sets off a public mass murder, we accuse the bomber, and not Hamas right? Seriously, I am asking How many israeli’s need to die before they can launch a defense that assures the attacks on its citizens stop?

I abhor war of any kind. The killing of the inhabitants of Gaza is wrong! No matter at who’s hands or with whose complicity.

ON the other hand, people have a right to be secure in their own home. Rememeber the expression “you don’t take a knife to a gun fight? If you are an Israeli and your neighbors, have either officially, in the past, or presently allow groups that publicly plan war on you, would you think that is a knife fight, or a gun fight?

Selise,
Are you saying that Hamas and Israel are equals?

Thanks.

My point is that if the well-equipped Israeli police cannot stop random deaths of hundreds of their own citizens, how can one expect the ill-equipped Palestinian police to stop the deaths of one or ten people in an adjacent country per year?

Because of the “dread” of the rockets suffered by a few Israelis, the entire population of Gaza has to wake up every morning for the next round of Russian Israeli roulette, played with automatics, not revolvers.

Of course, Palestinians, being the sub-humans the Israeli and US media portray them to be, don’t feel “dread” in the same way as do Israelis, do they, Skilly….?

no. i’m saying that while there are good faith disagreements about what the rules should be, the same rules should apply equally to all.

i reject the idea of judging different people by different rules – do you?

Please provide a link, or proof that this was a statement made by an non-Israeli.

They mean, “we will drive all Israelis into the Sea, if they can make it that far.”

The term or Label, “terrorist” has been politicized and the meaning made irrelevant, except for denoting which side they fight for.

…building tunnels for arms movement, and or in country assaults? They have shown not only the desire to attack but also the means to do so.

Why is it that you believe that these tunnels were built for arms movement and not food, medicine and relief supplies?
Gun powder is not difficult to make, and the rockets that are built in gaza are not technologically advanced. If they were going to smuggle arms in, a missile that could lock on to GPS coordinates would be much more bang for the buck through a tunnel. In fact, Israel has claimed that the tunnels were going to be used to kidnap soldiers.

How long does one wait? Must Israel always wait to “receive” the first punch?

It is a logical fallacy to assume that Israel has waited to strike at anything. Through the whole period of peace, Israel has never stopped it’s attacks on Gaza, or opened the borders in return for peace on the part of Hamas.

And then they’ll build more. Victory in war requires destroying either:

a) the enemy’s ability to fight or;
b) the enemy’s desire to fight.

It’s not clear to me that Israel will destroy either of those things.

The history of the Israeli/Hamas conflict over the last few years shows that Israel throws the first punch more often than Hamas, actually.

And they have indicated on occasion that they are willing to negotiate away that part of their mandate, but they expect to get something for it.

In any case, by any rational assessment, Israel is both a civil humanitarian organization and a terrorist organization. It certainly kills far more innocents.

you reap what you sow.