Happy New Year twolf1 and firepups!

wrt the NASA chief -

Prime example of how the thugs are gonna have to be dragged kicking/screaming/whining to get them out of their “this is ours by right” positions. It would appear the chief and his wife are well-suited to each other. :-(

Good morning and happy new year!

RE: Israeli bombing of Hamas tunnels. Reminds me mightily of the U.S. attempts to destroy the Ho chi Min Trail during the VN war. Linked article sez they’ve detroyed 120/200 tunnels. But article I read yesterday in NYT (will try to find a link) quoted someone as saying there were thousands of tunnels.

During VN, from memory, for a distance of something like 200 miles, the NVN built 960 miles of roads through the jungle, much of it paved as time went on. So if the U.S. bombed and scorched some of it, there were always alternative routes. I suspect that Hamas has done same.

You can’t bomb a nationalist movement into submission.

Both were careful in discussing the tunnels, but Mr. Salem said, with a bit of exaggeration, “Israel destroyed maybe 40 tunnels the other day, but there are a thousand.”

His words were echoed by Ahmad Abdo, 43. “The tunnels are our lifeline,” he said. “The Israelis bombed some, but they can’t bomb them all. Their economy is our economy.”

That’s the quote. Here’s the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12…..038;st=cse

happy new year eCAHN!

going to disagree with you a bit…. gaza could be bombed into submission – but it would take something close to an act of genocide. bombing the rafah tunnels isn’t, at least i don’t think, about stopping weapons – it’s about stopping food, fuel and other necessities and it’s a “excuse” that can be used for leaving thousands homeless.

A delicious spread of goodies for to open the new year with, something for all tastes.

Sad noting the passing of Helen Suzman though, icon was the least of her stature.

Hi selise & Happy New Year.

If you’re right, why is Israel stopping short of genocide? Bombing some tunnels accomplishes nothing except causing Gazans to dig in even more (pun intended). Which does not seem any more productive to Israel than U.S. bombing of HCM Trail. So what’s Israel’s objective?

Good morning all, welcome to 2009. Nice to see you back eCHAN hope you had a great trip.
459 hrs & 34 min

I think Israel is taking a last shot at them before Bush leaves office, just like the Pukes are doing with things like leasing drilling rights at the last minute. They know the Obama admin won’t be yes-men for them.

As Zbigniew Brzezinski said the other day, Obama will most likely take steps to regain a position as an honest broker in the peace negotiations.

Thanks. Lots and lots of family. Lots and lots of partying. Yes, it was great.

But I should have said Likud is taking a last shot– not all Israelis support this.

What evidence is there that Obama will be any less midlessly pro-Israel than W? All his statements that I recall seem pretty belligerent against Palestine.

And just because a slimy “foreign policy expert” bike Zbig sez something, does not make it so.

The U.S. has never been an honest broker and I think will never be one in my lifetime.

i think mass expulsion is far more likely than an act of genocide, but regardless the question remains: why not? obviously my opinion only: in general israelis see themselves and the good guys and oppressed, not the oppressors (think american exceptionalism x100). don’t think they could do it without something that could be rationalized as a justification (just as americans would never torture – except when we have to / it’s right / etc).

so, what we are left with, again imo, is a slow motion ethnic cleansing.

but that’s a long term goal of the elite – the current crisis is mostly about upcoming elections.

Israel’s objective is to create such a state of terror and hopelessness among the Palestinians that the Palestinians will cave into whatever Israel demands of them, which will be absolute obedience to their Israeli overlords in any issue. This is about one cult demanding mind control over another belief.

Obama will most likely take steps to regain a position as an honest broker in the peace negotiations.

regain? when we were an honest broker between the israelis and the palestinians?

eCAHN – you might have missed hugh’s diary: A Meditation on Murder: The Israeli assault on Gaza

But I should have said Likud is taking a last shot– not all Israelis support this.

this is being done by kadima – not likud (which is an opposition party to the current government)

true not all israelis support it, but the leadership of both parties do.

selise & T-Bear
I thinkk both of you are right. Just looking to see if someone else sees a clear objective of Israel that is likely to be successful.

Put in my words, Israel is bombing because they have a lot of bombs, and thus anything looks like a target.

Just like the U.S.., Israel learns nothing from anything that has ever gone on in nationalistic movements in the past. So the Gazans will never cave in to Israel’s will.

There was a presser yesterday on cspan with some U.N. humanitarian types. One of the Qs was something like: Do the Gazans realize that it’s Hamas fault that they are being bombed? The answer was (and both of the U.N. reps were exceedingly diplomatic and as neutral in their answers as possible): No. The Gazans blame the people who are bombing them.

Hi eCAHN! Yeah, I was just looking at Zbig’s bio in wikipedia and it said he’s a “foreign policy realist”, and I realized that you would express some hostility toward him. I really appreciate your (and selise’s) strong anti-war stance. But I loved his smackdown of Joe Scarface the other day.

But Zbig did help broker the Camp David Accords– isn’t that a bright spot for him?

As far as Obama’s rhetoric, as you know anyone who wants to get elected in the US has to talk like that. I’m sure he’ll be a strong supporter of Israel but I think he will speak out against this kind of aggression.

Thanks. I hadn’t read it.

Of course you’re right that we’ve always sided with Israel, but we have brokered peace agreements in the past. Maybe I was being to kind to us, calling us an “honest broker”. I was channeling Zbig.

There are no foreign policy experts on any side of the political spectrum who are anti-war. As I knew nothing about this field 8 years ago, it took me a long time to figure out that no matter what the foreign policy problem, as far as the U.S. is concerned, the military is the solution.

I think Obama means what he sez about Israel. So far the only thing he’s lied about is his nod to the left. And even on that he hasn’t really lied because he never gave much for the left to hang onto to begin with.

Pups, don’t forget your New Years black-eyed peas and collard
greens today.

We’re gonna need all the luck we can muster.

Viacom and Time Warner reach deal to avoid blackout

i’m basing my opinion of zbig in part on having read his book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives. i agree that he is smart, and does pay attention to what he see’s as usa national security (except for russia, he seems to be about as anti-russia as lieberman is anti-arab).

but comparing him to the likes of the current crew of fuckups is a pretty low bar. and don’t forget who boasted of provoking the soviets to invade afghanistan.

as for obama – he’s not campaigning now, so that’s no excuse for not having spoken out. otoh, if he does soon, i’ll be cheering him.

good call.

i love of black eyed peas. must come from my dad’s side of the family (tennessee)

Hamas leader killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Cabbage.

it’s warmed all the way up to 3F. going to poke my head outside.

I am unable to find a link to a report that the Gaza has about £4 billion in off shore gas fields (which would feed the Israeli military quite well), sorry I did not bookmark it.

The other purpose may be to create favor by shoring up falling petroleum prices for their benefactors

Oil rises on Middle East tensions

Crude oil prices have climbed on concerns that Israel’s attacks on Hamas could disrupt oil production and threaten supplies from the Middle East.
Light, sweet crude rose $1.22 to $37.89 a barrel in New York, below a session high of $42.20.
Meanwhile London Brent added $1.39 to $38.70 a barrel, after reaching a high of $43.18.
Oil has fallen more than $100 from its peak of $147.27 a barrel on 11 July as slowing economies have dented demand.
“Geopolitics had disappeared from the oil scene for the last couple of months but will regain some price premium with the latest Israeli attack in Gaza,” Olivier Jakob, of consultants Petromatrix, said in a research note.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7803595.stm

Gaza offshore gas fields

I am wondering what is happening regarding the toxic sludge mess in TN
Clean coal my ass. http://crooksandliars.com/node/24914
458 hrs & 51 min

Thanks to you & T-Bear. I had not heard of that but it makes much more sense than other reasons.

Mornin’, Firepups

Happy New Year, y’all.

I know it’s gonna be a better year cuz I woke up and within 10 steps got a fresh, huge hairball between the toes. Hooyah!!!

18 an’ a hook.

The population of non jews is exploding in the entire region west of the Jordan River. The jews are becoming outnumbered pretty quickly. Their survival as a theocracy will not survive ANY form of democracy and so non jews must be expelled from the jewish juridisction and / or killed. Genocide might be too obvious so they use war and other means to cause misery suffering and death. The religious zealots see the arabs as hardly more than cock roaches.

America’s policy is to support Israel 1000%

Lovely.

(Newish to google), I did find this as well

Gaza siege intensified after collapse of natural gas deal
Mark Turner, The Electronic Intifada, 23 January 2008

(caption)Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and appointed Prime Minister Salam Fayyad attend a signing ceremony between OPIC (Overseas Private Investment Corporation) and the Palestinian Investment Fund in the West Bank city of Ramallah, July 2007. (Omar Rashidi/ MaanImages/POOL)

Israel has dramatically intensified its military campaign in the Gaza Strip, stepping up air strikes and shelling of the beleaguered coastal strip. UN officials and human rights advocates warn that Gazans now face a humanitarian disaster of unprecedented magnitude with widespread disease and famine rapidly becoming reality as electricity generation, water supply, sewage treatment, food supplies and medical services grind to a halt as a consequence of the ever tighter Israeli blockade.

Israel claims its recent moves are retaliation for continued rocket attacks originating in Gaza that despite their consistency cause scant damage and few actual casualties.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9245.shtml

Two points, 1. Fatah’s Palestinian Authority’s Abbas inherited Arafat’s corruption.
2. Hamas controls the Gaza, the resource. therefore, eliminate Hamas, terrorize the supporters into silence.

Gaza’s tunnels are a lot more like the Tunnels of Chu Chi that the Ho Chi Mihn Trail, don’t you think T-Bear?

Things still good with the gato?

my @37 for you.

Hey this google stuff could be fun!

Yep. Curled up in my lap as we speak.

did you see the chu chi tunnels? what were they like? i have read they were used for living quarters – unlike the rafah tunnels, which i’ve read (but also never seen) are smuggling tunnels and at least used to be run as businesses.

They used tunnels for everything hospitals, living quarters, fighting positions, you name it. They planted a bomb in one right in front of the main gate of the 25th Id HQ and blew up the first vehicle that drove out in the morning.

Sorry Raven, have only read descriptions of the tunnels, a network designed to shelter a population as well as providing escape passages. The Gaza tunnels sound similar with the exception of not sheltering a population (may be due to the nature of soil) but providing a network of interconnecting passages to convey economic necessities and defensive goods.

No, I never saw them but I bet I drove over them. You should read the Tunnels of Cu Chi, great book and the chapter on US technology R&D is priceless. The mexican bedbugs glued to transmitters and dropped on the trail is hilarious.

OT: Good Morning. NPR had a piece today noting that this is the 50th Anniversary of Castro take over in Cuba. Lots of stuff about the CIA and who was/not paying attention. Sounded like a very familiar “who would have thought?” Ike sort of saying why didn’t someone tell me?

thanks, that sounds like a great read. amazon has both the used hardcover and paperback listed for sale. since it says there are pictures and maps, i’m going to go with the hardcover edition.

Here are some sites for maps of the great adventure.

http://www.rjsmith.com/topo_map.html

http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/sea-ao.html

One could spend days on the nexus site.

New post waaaaay upstairs…

yikes! like crack to a map geek. i better bookmark for later.

I don’t believe your assertion that “you can’t bomb a nationalist movement into submission” is supported by fact. The extensive bombing of Japan and Germany left those populations without any will to resist (which was particularly remarkable in the case of Japan). Bombing alone caused the Serbs to come to heel in Kosovo.

And regarding your comments about Vietnam – there is a good book that in part, citing primary North Vietnamese sources, states that the American bombing of Vietnam very nearly won that war for the Americans, but that the premature American cease fire allowed the North Vietnamese to grasp victory out of the jaws of defeat. If you look at the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, the Soviets very nearly won that war but for America’s insertion of high-tech anti-aircraft weaponry into the mix.

In my opinion, disproportionate use of military force is the only proven method to win a war. The fact that so many recent wars fought by major powers have not resulted in clear wins is a function of the fact that so many punches have been pulled, so to speak. You especially see this with past Israeli military actions. The fact that international law forbids the disproportionate use of military force speaks more to the growing irrelevancy of international law than anything else.

War is a cruel, horrible business. However, there is no doubt in my mind that war is sometimes justified. It would be a horrible thing to allow a defeat in a justified war due solely to lack of political will.

I’ll try finding the exact quote I have in mind in that book, but not today – I just got off work.

This section from the nexus site shows My Tho. Dong Tam, home of the Mobile Riverine Force is about 4 mile west of My Tho. Dong Tam was dredged out of the rice paddies and does not appear on the map. I still have copies of the chart books we used to navigate throughout the Delta.

Yeah, me too.

LOL! it’s a dangerous addiction. but not as dangerous as many others….

thanks for the links.